Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ignoramus30623" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-03, John R. Carroll wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus30623 wrote:
I cannot believe it that people are afraid that a president is going
to make a speech to their children. Even assuming that the president
would say something with which a parent would disagree with,
isolating children from presidential speeches is an inadequate
answer.

The better approach would be to explain to the children that not
everyone has to agree with the president about everything, highlight
differences between your opinion and the president's etc.

Trying to hide the president's speech from children is similar to
sticking one's head in the sand when you hear bad news. It is not a
productive approach and leads to living in an imaginary world.

Let's wait until the speech and then we can see if it is as evil as
some are expecting it to be. If it will be the case, then I will
adjust my understanding of reality, and if it is not, then those who
expected it to be evil, should adjust theirs.

i

Unless, of course, they see it as protecting their children from
political propaganda...
Is "propaganda" something that is evil universally? Or is Democratic
propaganda more evil than Republican propaganda? Or the reverse? Would
you want to isolate your children from both kinds of propaganda? Would
you expect that isolating children from "propaganda" may make them
resistant to it when they encounter it?

Would it not be a good idea to expose children to various age
appropriate political topics and discuss those topics with kids in a
respectful fashion?

You're being much too reasonable here, Iggy. Get with the program. The idea
is to teach your kids that the president is evil, and that they're not
allowed to listen to him because your little mind can't take it.

That's how you raise good little narrow-minded conservatives. It's the
American way.

For example, I do not like George W Bush, but if he wanted to make a
speech to children, I would not want to hide the speech from them --
but I would discuss it critically afterwards.

Bush speeches are good for you. They're a cautionary tale about getting
"C's" in school. d8-)

True. You can get C's in school, and still go on to be one of the most
successful individuals in the world - Oilman, Jet fighter pilot, major
sports franchise owner, governor of a major state, president of the U.S.
My GPA was a lot better, but my accomplishments are far less.

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Unless, of course, they see it as protecting their children from
political propaganda...
You're being much too reasonable here, Iggy. Get with the program. The
idea is to teach your kids that the president is evil, and that they're
not allowed to listen to him because your little mind can't take it.

That's how you raise good little narrow-minded conservatives. It's the
American way.
We were both mumbling over a tongue in cheek.

But what you wrote here, probably also TiC, is way too true to be funny.

This is exactly how biases are passed from one generation to the next.
Racism, hatred, political posture, heck, even TV shows and beer
preferences.

Children learn by watching (and listening to) parents.

And the cleaver little brutes can tell the difference between what parents
say
and what they do.

I subscribe to what Iggy said about it. Holding kids back from school so
they won't be exposed to a speech by the President is an obvious statement
that presidents are up to no good and aren't to be trusted, to begin with. I
don't think that's a good place to start with a kid's civil education.

And the kid will wonder why his friends saw it but he didn't. That isn't
going to be a plus for his view of his parents.

Hell, that's easy: "If your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump
off also?? Well WOULD YOU? "

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

"RBnDFW" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ignoramus30623" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-03, John R. Carroll wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus30623 wrote:
I cannot believe it that people are afraid that a president is going
to make a speech to their children. Even assuming that the president
would say something with which a parent would disagree with,
isolating children from presidential speeches is an inadequate
answer.

The better approach would be to explain to the children that not
everyone has to agree with the president about everything, highlight
differences between your opinion and the president's etc.

Trying to hide the president's speech from children is similar to
sticking one's head in the sand when you hear bad news. It is not a
productive approach and leads to living in an imaginary world.

Let's wait until the speech and then we can see if it is as evil as
some are expecting it to be. If it will be the case, then I will
adjust my understanding of reality, and if it is not, then those who
expected it to be evil, should adjust theirs.

i

Unless, of course, they see it as protecting their children from
political propaganda...
Is "propaganda" something that is evil universally? Or is Democratic
propaganda more evil than Republican propaganda? Or the reverse? Would
you want to isolate your children from both kinds of propaganda? Would
you expect that isolating children from "propaganda" may make them
resistant to it when they encounter it?

Would it not be a good idea to expose children to various age
appropriate political topics and discuss those topics with kids in a
respectful fashion?

You're being much too reasonable here, Iggy. Get with the program. The
idea is to teach your kids that the president is evil, and that they're
not allowed to listen to him because your little mind can't take it.

That's how you raise good little narrow-minded conservatives. It's the
American way.

For example, I do not like George W Bush, but if he wanted to make a
speech to children, I would not want to hide the speech from them --
but I would discuss it critically afterwards.

Bush speeches are good for you. They're a cautionary tale about getting
"C's" in school. d8-)

True. You can get C's in school, and still go on to be one of the most
successful individuals in the world...

He'll probably be remembered more as one of the worst presidents in US
history.

- Oilman, Jet fighter pilot, major sports franchise owner, governor of a
major state, president of the U.S.
My GPA was a lot better, but my accomplishments are far less.

It's amazing what you can do with a Yale legacy admission...and a father
who's President of the United States.

--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

"RBnDFW" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Unless, of course, they see it as protecting their children from
political propaganda...
You're being much too reasonable here, Iggy. Get with the program. The
idea is to teach your kids that the president is evil, and that they're
not allowed to listen to him because your little mind can't take it.

That's how you raise good little narrow-minded conservatives. It's the
American way.
We were both mumbling over a tongue in cheek.

But what you wrote here, probably also TiC, is way too true to be funny.

This is exactly how biases are passed from one generation to the next.
Racism, hatred, political posture, heck, even TV shows and beer
preferences.

Children learn by watching (and listening to) parents.

And the cleaver little brutes can tell the difference between what
parents say
and what they do.

I subscribe to what Iggy said about it. Holding kids back from school so
they won't be exposed to a speech by the President is an obvious
statement that presidents are up to no good and aren't to be trusted, to
begin with. I don't think that's a good place to start with a kid's civil
education.

And the kid will wonder why his friends saw it but he didn't. That isn't
going to be a plus for his view of his parents.

Hell, that's easy: "If your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump off
also?? Well WOULD YOU? "

This is more like being kept from seeing a new movie that "all the other
kids" got to see. The old bridge-jumping argument doesn't hold any water
with kids in those circumstances. I've used it myself, to little avail. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ed Huntress wrote:

This isn't a matter of Federal powers. This is the President excercizing his
right to free speech. We all have that power, president or
candlestick-maker. Do you deny him that right?

Big difference between his right and my similar right.
He can command that his speech be imposed on the entire nation, or close
to it. That's known as the Bully Pulpit, and it's apt.

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:
How is a speech denying your ability? Does that apply to all speech
you
don't agree with? Are you suggesting that others' rights to free
speech
don't apply if you don't like the speech?
Free speech rights do not extend to captive audiences.
Really? Then all teachers should just shut up and send the kids home?

Where do you get these wacky ideas, Pete?
Why do you think teachers are being arrested for proselytizing their
ignorant superstitions in public schools?

I wasn't aware that they are. How many are there, out of the 6.2 million
teachers in the United States?

Free speech rights do not
apply in the classroom, they have limits such as board approved lesson
plans.

I don't think the school boards are in charge of what the president of the
United States can say. g

Oh yes they a "Most districts in North Texas are not broadcasting
the president's speech to their students. "

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...-56742732.html

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On 2009-09-04, RBnDFW wrote:
True. You can get C's in school, and still go on to be one of the most
successful individuals in the world - Oilman, Jet fighter pilot, major
sports franchise owner, governor of a major state, president of the U.S.
My GPA was a lot better, but my accomplishments are far less.

You did not have the right daddy.

i

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

"RBnDFW" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

This isn't a matter of Federal powers. This is the President excercizing
his right to free speech. We all have that power, president or
candlestick-maker. Do you deny him that right?

Big difference between his right and my similar right.

Nope.

He can command that his speech be imposed on the entire nation, or close
to it.

He cannot.

That's known as the Bully Pulpit, and it's apt.

You probably know what Teddy meant by "bully," which meant "excellent" or
"superb" in his day, but you're being intentionally dense.

--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

"RBnDFW" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:
How is a speech denying your ability? Does that apply to all speech
you
don't agree with? Are you suggesting that others' rights to free
speech
don't apply if you don't like the speech?
Free speech rights do not extend to captive audiences.
Really? Then all teachers should just shut up and send the kids home?

Where do you get these wacky ideas, Pete?
Why do you think teachers are being arrested for proselytizing their
ignorant superstitions in public schools?

I wasn't aware that they are. How many are there, out of the 6.2 million
teachers in the United States?

Free speech rights do not
apply in the classroom, they have limits such as board approved lesson
plans.

I don't think the school boards are in charge of what the president of
the United States can say. g

Oh yes they a "Most districts in North Texas are not broadcasting the
president's speech to their students. "

As I said, they are not in charge of what the president can say. They can
decide whether they'll listen.

His free speech rights allow him to say pretty much what he wants to -- just
like you and me.

--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

RBnDFW wrote:

Hell, that's easy: "If your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump
off also?? Well WOULD YOU? "

Incomplete information to make a decision.

- How high is the cliff?
- Is there deep water or dirt at the bottom of the cliff?
- Do we have hang gliders and appropriate training?
- Is it an approved cliff diving location?

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

RBnDFW wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:
How is a speech denying your ability? Does that apply to all
speech you
don't agree with? Are you suggesting that others' rights to free
speech
don't apply if you don't like the speech?
Free speech rights do not extend to captive audiences.
Really? Then all teachers should just shut up and send the kids
home?

Where do you get these wacky ideas, Pete?
Why do you think teachers are being arrested for proselytizing their
ignorant superstitions in public schools?

I wasn't aware that they are. How many are there, out of the 6.2
million teachers in the United States?

Free speech rights do not
apply in the classroom, they have limits such as board approved
lesson plans.

I don't think the school boards are in charge of what the president
of the United States can say. g

Oh yes they a "Most districts in North Texas are not broadcasting
the president's speech to their students. "


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...-56742732.html

LOL
He'll have his say regardless.


--
John R. Carroll

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sep 4, 7:25*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

That sounds like you don't want him to be successful in his effort to lead
change in education. But that's one of the issues on which he campaigned,
and on which he was elected. It's his responsibility to lead those
changes -- and that requires speech.

I am very much in favor of the education reform President Obama
campaigned on. But it does not require speech to the students. Take
a look at.

http://www.barackobama.com/.../educa...eech_FINAL.pdf
-

No where is there is there anything about giving speeches to the
students.

He seems to have picked an excellent education secretary, Arne Duncan.
It would be wonderful if they can improve the education system in
Washington, D.C.

While you think I want to de-legitimize Obama, I think you want to
praise everything he does. You do not seem the least bit critical of
anything he does.

Dan
--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Pete C. wrote:
RBnDFW wrote:
Hell, that's easy: "If your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump
off also?? Well WOULD YOU? "

Incomplete information to make a decision.

- How high is the cliff?

If it's "our" Cliff, I'd estimate 5'5", max

- Is there deep water or dirt at the bottom of the cliff?

I'm thinking "dirt" ....sort of

- Do we have hang gliders and appropriate training?

just to jump off Cliffie??

- Is it an approved cliff diving location?

Yes, unless you have him plonked, like most

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
September 8, Obama will be piped into all public schools for a speech.
Probably about how to snitch on their parents.

This is scary. This is sick.

Steve
Damn! Look at this, from Rightpundits.com:

"In yet one more historic moment for this White House, Barack Obama will
hold a nationwide speech for school children. Apparently, The One will
challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take
responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a "shared
responsibility and commitment" on the part of students, parents and
educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best
education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good
jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens."

Man, if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, what will? The sick
*******s want our kids to work hard and take responsibility!

How will they ever learn to be a good, upstanding redneck if they listen
to that? What will become of conservatives?

You're right, Steve. There's some real sickness here. 'Hope you get well
soon. g

--
Ed Huntress
I'm all for it! These kids will become the responsible taxpayers who'll be
feeding the dollars into my Social Security checks!

David

That's a foregone conclusion no matter which party is in office.

--
Ed Huntress

You may think so, but I'll not spend it until I have it. And if I
don't get it, I'll not be surprised.

From what I've seen of the current new crop of workers, I'm not
filled with confidence for the future.

David

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
September 8, Obama will be piped into all public schools for a speech.
Probably about how to snitch on their parents.

This is scary. This is sick.

Steve
Damn! Look at this, from Rightpundits.com:

"In yet one more historic moment for this White House, Barack Obama
will hold a nationwide speech for school children. Apparently, The One
will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take
responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a "shared
responsibility and commitment" on the part of students, parents and
educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best
education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good
jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens."

Man, if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, what will? The sick
*******s want our kids to work hard and take responsibility!

How will they ever learn to be a good, upstanding redneck if they
listen to that? What will become of conservatives?

You're right, Steve. There's some real sickness here. 'Hope you get
well soon. g

--
Ed Huntress
I'm all for it! These kids will become the responsible taxpayers who'll
be feeding the dollars into my Social Security checks!

David

That's a foregone conclusion no matter which party is in office.

--
Ed Huntress

You may think so, but I'll not spend it until I have it. And if I don't
get it, I'll not be surprised.

From what I've seen of the current new crop of workers, I'm not filled
with confidence for the future.

David

If we run out, we run out. It will be because of a jobs-free recovery, if
that comes to pass, and a prolonged period of high unemployment.

Over the years I've run the numbers several times and I could never see how
we were going to have enough jobs to have decent levels of employment. And
I've always been proved to be too pessimistic about it. So now I don't worry
as much, and proceed as if the jobs will come -- as they always do.

I'm concerned about *rates* of economic growth now, but as I've learned, I
tend to be too cautious and conservative about estimating what will happen
in that regard, as well. So don't worry, be happy. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

RBnDFW wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:


Bush speeches are good for you. They're a cautionary tale about
getting "C's" in school. d8-)

True. You can get C's in school, and still go on to be one of the XXXXXmXXXX LEAST
successful individuals in the world - Oilman

Even in Texas, he never made a cent, bankrupted two companies, had
Daddy's Pals bail him out.

, Jet fighter pilot,

Until he quit before he was done.

major
sports franchise owner

Used corporate welfare to get rich.

, governor of a major state,

with lousy records on education and environment. Constitutionally a
very weak governorship, more fiscal power in the hands of the Lt. Governor.

president of the U.S.

Worst in History.

My GPA was a lot better, but my accomplishments are far less.

If you are breathing without help, you are actually doing much better.

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sep 5, 1:56*am, Stuart Wheaton wrote:


I assume you had the same concerns when Ronnie Ray gun and George the
first did this same thing. *Please post a link to your objections then.

I did have the same objection then. But I do not save my posts. And
have no idea if the subject came up here back then.

I heard today on the radio that if telling school kids to stay in
school, stay off drugs and succeed is socialism, than almost all parents
are socialists. * I think it was E.J.Dionne who said it...

I think the parents should tell the kids to get an education and to
stay off drugs ( including the legal ones as alcohol. ). But I would
not tell the kid of someone else what to do. So while I think it is a
good idea, I do not think it my place to do the telling except to my
own kids.

If you think Socialism is related to this, you need to look up
Socialism. Socialism is economic, not moral, or political.

Dan

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:19:28 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


cavelamb wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

Unless, of course, they see it as protecting their children from
political propaganda...

You're being much too reasonable here, Iggy. Get with the program. The idea
is to teach your kids that the president is evil, and that they're not
allowed to listen to him because your little mind can't take it.

That's how you raise good little narrow-minded conservatives. It's the
American way.

We were both mumbling over a tongue in cheek.

But what you wrote here, probably also TiC, is way too true to be funny.

This is exactly how biases are passed from one generation to the next.
Racism, hatred, political posture, heck, even TV shows and beer preferences.

Children learn by watching (and listening to) parents.

And the cleaver little brutes can tell the difference between what parents say
and what they do.

Richard

The funny thing is, I watched and listened to my parents, exercised my
critical thinking skills, and made my own decisions. I adopted very
little from my parents actually.


My parents voted Democrat for most of their lives and were antigun.

They however were smart...and finally changed to Republican and started
carrying guns (Dad owned a jewelry store)

This happened LONG after I was gone btw.
They damned near banned me from family gatherings when I voted for
Richard Nixon

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:14:37 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:

RBnDFW wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:


Bush speeches are good for you. They're a cautionary tale about
getting "C's" in school. d8-)

True. You can get C's in school, and still go on to be one of the XXXXXmXXXX LEAST
successful individuals in the world - Oilman

Even in Texas, he never made a cent, bankrupted two companies, had
Daddy's Pals bail him out.

, Jet fighter pilot,

Until he quit before he was done.

major
sports franchise owner

Used corporate welfare to get rich.

, governor of a major state,

with lousy records on education and environment. Constitutionally a
very weak governorship, more fiscal power in the hands of the Lt. Governor.

president of the U.S.

Worst in History.

My GPA was a lot better, but my accomplishments are far less.

If you are breathing without help, you are actually doing much better.


And we now have someone far worse than Bush in office..and you put him
there.

Good for you Stu..pid!!

And it looks like it will be curtains inside of the next 3 yrs for you
and your fellow droids.

9 months in office..and his popularity is now down below 47%..and
falling like a rock.

Good Job Stu..pid...good job indeed.


Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:08:40 -0500, Ignoramus30623
wrote:

On 2009-09-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:54:46 -0500, Ignoramus30623
wrote:

I cannot believe it that people are afraid that a president is going
to make a speech to their children. Even assuming that the president
would say something with which a parent would disagree with, isolating
children from presidential speeches is an inadequate answer.


Why?

Because it makes them unaware of important things.

So then you would send your kids on a drunk driving binge, because they
would likely learn the important things?

The better approach would be to explain to the children that not
everyone has to agree with the president about everything, highlight
differences between your opinion and the president's etc.

Pehaps. But with Liberal teachers hammering Leftwing crapola into your
kids brain every day...how do you make the determination..or even know
what they are being told?

I would ask them what are they being told. Part of parenting.

Yes..and?

Trying to hide the president's speech from children is similar to
sticking one's head in the sand when you hear bad news. It is not a
productive approach and leads to living in an imaginary world.

So you will be allowing your kids to go to an American Nazi Party
fiesta next week?

I would not mind going if it was nearby. It is educational. I would
prefer to be outdoors, and not enter any buildings, however.

Why?

Let's wait until the speech and then we can see if it is as evil as
some are expecting it to be. If it will be the case, then I will
adjust my understanding of reality, and if it is not, then those who
expected it to be evil, should adjust theirs.

i

Coming from an ex-russian..sometimes I wonder about you. You are far
far too accepting of things the Government pulls. Perhaps it IS
because you are an ex russian.....and again...it makes us even more
concerned about our children..

Perhaps, but I try to do my best at finding the best understanding of
reality, and then live with said understanding. I try to do my best
and live with the result.

i

So did the Mensheviks

Remember what happened to them......


Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On 2009-09-05, Gunner Asch wrote:
My parents voted Democrat for most of their lives and were antigun.

They however were smart...and finally changed to Republican and started
carrying guns (Dad owned a jewelry store)

This happened LONG after I was gone btw.
They damned near banned me from family gatherings when I voted for
Richard Nixon

My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

i

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:27:19 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus11962
scrawled the following:

On 2009-09-05, Gunner Asch wrote:
My parents voted Democrat for most of their lives and were antigun.

They however were smart...and finally changed to Republican and started
carrying guns (Dad owned a jewelry store)

This happened LONG after I was gone btw.
They damned near banned me from family gatherings when I voted for
Richard Nixon

My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

Condolences on both. =:-0

--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:27:19 -0500, Ignoramus11962
wrote:

On 2009-09-05, Gunner Asch wrote:
My parents voted Democrat for most of their lives and were antigun.

They however were smart...and finally changed to Republican and started
carrying guns (Dad owned a jewelry store)

This happened LONG after I was gone btw.
They damned near banned me from family gatherings when I voted for
Richard Nixon

My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

i


Neocon leaning? WTF does that mean?



"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:58:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:27:19 -0500, Ignoramus11962
wrote:



My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

i


Neocon leaning? WTF does that mean?



A lean neocon is the other extreme from a rich neocon. They tend to pink a bit
under acceleration :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:00:29 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:58:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:27:19 -0500, Ignoramus11962
wrote:



My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

i


Neocon leaning? WTF does that mean?



A lean neocon is the other extreme from a rich neocon. They tend to pink a bit
under acceleration :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM


You guys from South Africa really never did learn English very well did
you?

G

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 03:45:21 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:00:29 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:58:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:27:19 -0500, Ignoramus11962
wrote:



My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

i


Neocon leaning? WTF does that mean?



A lean neocon is the other extreme from a rich neocon. They tend to pink a bit
under acceleration :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM


You guys from South Africa really never did learn English very well did
you?

G

Gunner



I've much less connection with South Africa than you've got with Finland.
Specifically, none whatsoever...

Note that the European names in South Africa didn't start there, they started
in Europe!

English, on the other hand, is my native language and I speak that, rather
than the debased variety spoken in the colonies:-)

Mark Rand
RTFM

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sep 2, 5:48*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...



Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:08:24 -0600, SteveB wrote:

September 8, Obama will be piped into all public schools for a speech..
Probably about how to snitch on their parents.

This is scary. *This is sick.

Hear, hear!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

If Obama's goal is to use the children, with empty heads of mush, to
influence the
political decisions of said child's parents, using a forum funded by
government, then I
think the President is operating way across the line.

Yeah, like Kennedy with all of that exercise stuff. Freakin' Council on
Youth Fitness, and all of those haranguing newsletters signed by the
President, and the films and booklets warping our little minds to believe
that we should be fit. And all of those President's Challenge workouts we
had to take.

Jeez. (Many here are too young to remember this, but it was a lot
heavier-handed than what we're hearing from Obama.)

And Nancy Reagan with all of that anti-drug propaganda! Sheesh, didn't she
know how to have a good time?

And now Obama wants kids to work hard and be responsible. When will this
brainwashing and despotism end?

--
Ed Huntress

Ed,
You obviously did not listen to Nancy:)
Clark

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 5:48 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...



Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:08:24 -0600, SteveB wrote:

September 8, Obama will be piped into all public schools for a speech.
Probably about how to snitch on their parents.

This is scary. This is sick.

Hear, hear!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

If Obama's goal is to use the children, with empty heads of mush, to
influence the
political decisions of said child's parents, using a forum funded by
government, then I
think the President is operating way across the line.

Yeah, like Kennedy with all of that exercise stuff. Freakin' Council on
Youth Fitness, and all of those haranguing newsletters signed by the
President, and the films and booklets warping our little minds to believe
that we should be fit. And all of those President's Challenge workouts we
had to take.

Jeez. (Many here are too young to remember this, but it was a lot
heavier-handed than what we're hearing from Obama.)

And Nancy Reagan with all of that anti-drug propaganda! Sheesh, didn't she
know how to have a good time?

And now Obama wants kids to work hard and be responsible. When will this
brainwashing and despotism end?

--
Ed Huntress

Ed,
You obviously did not listen to Nancy:)
Clark

'Didn't need to, Clark. But she was a superstitious wacko, anyway.

BTW, did you see the transcript I posted of Ronnie's speech to students in
1988? And righties are worried now that kids are going to be exposed to
political propaganda? ggg

--
Ed Huntress

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:11:51 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 03:45:21 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:00:29 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:58:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:27:19 -0500, Ignoramus11962
wrote:



My dad is neocon leaning, and my mom is liberal.

i


Neocon leaning? WTF does that mean?



A lean neocon is the other extreme from a rich neocon. They tend to pink a bit
under acceleration :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM


You guys from South Africa really never did learn English very well did
you?

G

Gunner



I've much less connection with South Africa than you've got with Finland.
Specifically, none whatsoever...

Note that the European names in South Africa didn't start there, they started
in Europe!

English, on the other hand, is my native language and I speak that, rather
than the debased variety spoken in the colonies:-)

Mark Rand
RTFM


Really? I was under the impression you were Affrakans or whatever.
Must be that arrogance you display G

Gunner

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ignoramus30623 wrote:
On 2009-09-03, John R. Carroll wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus30623 wrote:
I cannot believe it that people are afraid that a president is going
to make a speech to their children. Even assuming that the president
would say something with which a parent would disagree with,
isolating children from presidential speeches is an inadequate
answer.

The better approach would be to explain to the children that not
everyone has to agree with the president about everything, highlight
differences between your opinion and the president's etc.

Trying to hide the president's speech from children is similar to
sticking one's head in the sand when you hear bad news. It is not a
productive approach and leads to living in an imaginary world.

Let's wait until the speech and then we can see if it is as evil as
some are expecting it to be. If it will be the case, then I will
adjust my understanding of reality, and if it is not, then those who
expected it to be evil, should adjust theirs.

i

Unless, of course, they see it as protecting their children from
political propaganda...

Is "propaganda" something that is evil universally? Or is Democratic
propaganda more evil than Republican propaganda? Or the reverse? Would
you want to isolate your children from both kinds of propaganda? Would
you expect that isolating children from "propaganda" may make them
resistant to it when they encounter it?

Would it not be a good idea to expose children to various age
appropriate political topics and discuss those topics with kids in a
respectful fashion?

For example, I do not like George W Bush, but if he wanted to make a
speech to children, I would not want to hide the speech from them --
but I would discuss it critically afterwards.

i

Iggy, the problem with that idea is that most of the people who will
pull their kids out of school rather than let them be encouraged to stay
in school, stay off drugs and don't let anything hold them back from
their potential, are the kind of people who could not listen to Obama's
speech and analyse it for themselves. they won't have a clue what Obama
did wrong until Limbaugh and Beck spin it for them....

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sep 5, 7:50*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:08:40 -0500, Ignoramus30623

wrote:
On 2009-09-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:54:46 -0500, Ignoramus30623
wrote:

I cannot believe it that people are afraid that a president is going
to make a speech to their children. Even assuming that the president
would say something with which a parent would disagree with, isolating
children from presidential speeches is an inadequate answer.

Why?

Because it makes them unaware of important things.

So then you would send your kids on a drunk driving binge, because they
would likely learn the important things?



The better approach would be to explain to the children that not
everyone has to agree with the president about everything, highlight
differences between your opinion and the president's etc.

Pehaps. But with Liberal teachers hammering Leftwing crapola into your
kids brain every day...how do you make the determination..or even know
what they are being told?

I would ask them what are they being told. Part of parenting.

Yes..and?



Trying to hide the president's speech from children is similar to
sticking one's head in the sand when you hear bad news. It is not a
productive approach and leads to living in an imaginary world.

So you will be allowing your kids to go to an American Nazi Party
fiesta next week?

I would not mind going if it was nearby. It is educational. I would
prefer to be outdoors, and not enter any buildings, however.

Why?





Let's wait until the speech and then we can see if it is as evil as
some are expecting it to be. If it will be the case, then I will
adjust my understanding of reality, and if it is not, then those who
expected it to be evil, should adjust theirs.

i

Coming from an ex-russian..sometimes I wonder about you. *You are far
far too accepting of things the Government pulls. * Perhaps it IS
because you are an ex russian.....and again...it makes us even more
concerned about our children..

Perhaps, but I try to do my best at finding the best understanding of
reality, and then live with said understanding. I try to do my best
and live with the result.

i

So did the Mensheviks

Remember what happened to them......

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." *Grey Ghost

Gunner, it's incredible that each and every day you sink lower and
lower into you chasm of intolerance for anyone who doesn't look like
you, talk like you or think like you. If everyone was cut from the
same mold, what a boring place this would be.

And what would you use for targets?

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ignoramus30623 wrote:

Is "propaganda" something that is evil universally? Or is Democratic
propaganda more evil than Republican propaganda? Or the reverse? Would
you want to isolate your children from both kinds of propaganda? Would
you expect that isolating children from "propaganda" may make them
resistant to it when they encounter it?

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

Ignoramus30623 wrote:

Is "propaganda" something that is evil universally? Or is Democratic
propaganda more evil than Republican propaganda? Or the reverse? Would
you want to isolate your children from both kinds of propaganda? Would
you expect that isolating children from "propaganda" may make them
resistant to it when they encounter it?



My call? Yes, universally evil

propaganda

[prop-uh-gan-duh]

–noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a
person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or
movement.
4. Roman Catholic Church.
a. a committee of cardinals, established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV, having
supervision over foreign missions and the training of priests for these missions.
b. a school (College of Propaganda) established by Pope Urban VIII for the
education of priests for foreign missions.
5. Archaic. an organization or movement for the spreading of propaganda.

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:47:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:11:51 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:




I've much less connection with South Africa than you've got with Finland.
Specifically, none whatsoever...

Note that the European names in South Africa didn't start there, they started
in Europe!

English, on the other hand, is my native language and I speak that, rather
than the debased variety spoken in the colonies:-)

Mark Rand
RTFM


Really? I was under the impression you were Affrakans or whatever.
Must be that arrogance you display G

Gunner


The pot applying gun blue to the kettle?

G


Mark Rand
RTFM

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:16:47 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:47:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:11:51 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:




I've much less connection with South Africa than you've got with Finland.
Specifically, none whatsoever...

Note that the European names in South Africa didn't start there, they started
in Europe!

English, on the other hand, is my native language and I speak that, rather
than the debased variety spoken in the colonies:-)

Mark Rand
RTFM


Really? I was under the impression you were Affrakans or whatever.
Must be that arrogance you display G

Gunner


The pot applying gun blue to the kettle?

G


Mark Rand
RTFM


Moi? Everyone knows Im just a simple, harmless lovable fuzzball, a
working peon and a lover of good books, fine guns, easy women and warm
places to ****.

What more could one ask for?
What more could one be?

Gunner

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

On Sep 7, 7:05*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:16:47 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:



On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:47:16 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:11:51 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

I've much less connection with South Africa than you've got with Finland.
Specifically, none whatsoever...

Note that the European names in South Africa didn't start there, they started
in Europe!

English, on the other hand, is my native language and I speak that, rather
than the debased variety spoken in the colonies:-)

Mark Rand
RTFM

Really? *I was under the impression you were Affrakans or whatever.
Must be that arrogance you display G

Gunner

The pot applying gun blue to the kettle?

G

Mark Rand
RTFM

Moi? *Everyone knows Im just a simple, harmless lovable fuzzball, a
working peon and a lover of good books, fine guns, easy women and warm
places to ****.

What more could one ask for?
What more could one be?

Gunner

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
*minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

You could pay your ****ing bills, you worthless piece of ****.

Let the brainwashing begin .............
 

**** the kids. Barry needs to be jacking up those lazy assed teachers.

Steve