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Electric motor, again, help
Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the
cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
Electric motor, again, help
On 2009-08-06, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary I would disassemble and then see. Maybe silt solidified inside or something like that, or just fluffy rust. For $100 I can sell you a 1 HP cap start motor, 3450 rpm. i |
Electric motor, again, help
Pull the end caps. If it is ball bearing, the bearings will need to be
replaced. If sleeve bearings, a bit of cleaning and oil should get things spinning. Clean out any residual dried out muck, check to see that the centrifugal switch is working freely and the contacts are clean. Worth fixing? If it just got wet it's worth a try. If the inside is caked with mud from a standard muddy river, it's still worth a try but odds are not with you. Ivan Vegvary wrote: Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
Electric motor, again, help
On Aug 6, 5:05*am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. *This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. *What's my next step? *Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? *Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. *If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary My guess is that there is rust/ mud between the rotor and stator. So take the end bells off and see if the rotor can be pulled out of the stator. If it is rust as I suspect clean if off and put something on to prevent rusting. I use something like ATF with some wax dissolved in it. The bearing may be alright. You can figure that out after you get it cleaned up. Definitely worth taking apart and looking. Dan |
Electric motor, again, help
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary Product called PB Blaster. Aerosol in a can. Watch what you put it on, like plastics and rubber. For frozen metal, it's great. Kroil (sp?) is good, too. Steve |
Electric motor, again, help
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 04:05:08 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary From the comments so far, I'd be tempted to disassemble the thing completely* for a thorough cleaning, then reassemble with all due attention paid to rusted-out parts and proper lubrication -- but then, I like taking things apart. Whatever else you do, when you're in there you should probably replace the switch or the contacts, as appropriate. * Well, without unwinding the stator windings... -- www.wescottdesign.com |
Electric motor, again, help
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 04:05:08 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote: Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. I'd say Tentative Lost Cause - because replacement motors are FAR cheaper than the time and effort it would take to save that one. Just getting two new bearings and a "Dip and Bake" done on the windings will push the price past a new motor. (If that was a 10-HP plus, or a specialty motor that the machine was constructed around that isn't available at commodity prices like some Bridgeports, then it starts getting cheaper to fix the old one than buy a replacement.) Open it up, clean it out. Check and/or clean and lube the bearings. Ohm out and visually inspect the windings, a Megger insulation test if you have the tool. No sense doing any work if it's just going to let out the Magic Smoke in thirty seconds. And if it won't go, it's out - call around for a replacement. You need to write everything down from the label or just take the dead motor in with you. Frame size, HPO, RPM, Rotation (some are reversible easily, some are not...) Servicer Factor... Oh - Don't forget to clean out the bearings and gearbox on the cement mixer, and lube everything - if the motor got wet, they did too. -- Bruce -- |
Electric motor, again, help
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary There is nothing to fear. Take it apart. You can't make it any worse. A quality, name brand motor should be worth saving, and will be designed for easy repair. Junk, 3rd world motors are just scrap. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete
from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. BTW motor is: Dayton, 1HP, Cap. Start, Therm. Protected model 6K562F. Took a lot of scrubbing to get that information. Bearings = Ball Note on nameplate says that they are permanently lubricated and require no further lubrication. Does this mean they are sealed and water cannot get in? What would you guys do? Use it as is (while cautiously waiting for bearing noise to develop) or, make it a new project. Thanks for all the previous advice. Ivan Vegvary "Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
bearings fot this size motor should be dirt cheap, and ez o change
i r On 2009-08-06, Ivan Vegvary wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. BTW motor is: Dayton, 1HP, Cap. Start, Therm. Protected model 6K562F. Took a lot of scrubbing to get that information. Bearings = Ball Note on nameplate says that they are permanently lubricated and require no further lubrication. Does this mean they are sealed and water cannot get in? What would you guys do? Use it as is (while cautiously waiting for bearing noise to develop) or, make it a new project. Thanks for all the previous advice. Ivan Vegvary "Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Aug 6, 10:59*pm, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
Removed motor from cement mixer. *Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. *Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. *While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. *Fairly quiet! Question: *Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary My guess is still dirt or rust between the rotor and stator was the cause. I would still take the end bells off , pull the rotor out, clean the rotor and stator and put something on to inhibit rust. Maybe wash off the windings with some water and a little detergent before putting on something to inhibit rust. I would not worry about the bearings. You can always replace them later. Maybe write the bearing sizes somewhere if they are not easily read on the nameplate. So if it starts to get noisy, you can get some new bearings so you have them when it gets too bad. Should take less than an hour to do the above. Of course if you need to use the motor right now, you can always do what I suggest later. Dan |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:59:54 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. BTW motor is: Dayton, 1HP, Cap. Start, Therm. Protected model 6K562F. Took a lot of scrubbing to get that information. Bearings = Ball Note on nameplate says that they are permanently lubricated and require no further lubrication. Does this mean they are sealed and water cannot get in? What would you guys do? Use it as is (while cautiously waiting for bearing noise to develop) or, make it a new project. Thanks for all the previous advice. If the motor has been under water it seems logical to replace the bearings and to wash, bake, and re varnish the windings. Washing can be done with soap and water, simple Green, or other solvents (that do not dissolve any existing varnish), baking can be done by the use of high wattage "spot lights" or even in the kitchen oven and insulating varnish is available in spray cans. Cheers, John B. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. BTW motor is: Dayton, 1HP, Cap. Start, Therm. Protected model 6K562F. Took a lot of scrubbing to get that information. Bearings = Ball Note on nameplate says that they are permanently lubricated and require no further lubrication. Does this mean they are sealed and water cannot get in? What would you guys do? Use it as is (while cautiously waiting for bearing noise to develop) or, make it a new project. Good motor with "sealed" bearings. Mark both end shells against the body shell so that you can re-assemble the same way, but each end likely has small alignment pins. Clean the shaft and unscrew the end bolts and tap off one end. Look inside before pulling completely to see if there is anything caught or rubbing. It's easy from there. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
Typical prices for import bearings that fit these motors =$6 each.
Change 'em! Other than that, just run it! Ivan Vegvary wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. BTW motor is: Dayton, 1HP, Cap. Start, Therm. Protected model 6K562F. Took a lot of scrubbing to get that information. Bearings = Ball Note on nameplate says that they are permanently lubricated and require no further lubrication. Does this mean they are sealed and water cannot get in? What would you guys do? Use it as is (while cautiously waiting for bearing noise to develop) or, make it a new project. Thanks for all the previous advice. Ivan Vegvary "Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
wrote in message ... On Aug 6, 10:59 pm, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary My guess is still dirt or rust between the rotor and stator was the cause. I would still take the end bells off , pull the rotor out, clean the rotor and stator and put something on to inhibit rust. Maybe wash off the windings with some water and a little detergent before putting on something to inhibit rust. I would not worry about the bearings. You can always replace them later. Maybe write the bearing sizes somewhere if they are not easily read on the nameplate. So if it starts to get noisy, you can get some new bearings so you have them when it gets too bad. Should take less than an hour to do the above. Of course if you need to use the motor right now, you can always do what I suggest later. Dan my thought was it would suck if it mysteriously seized up again during a concrete pour. b.w. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:59:54 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. I vote, if it works, don't fix it. ;-) Cheers! Rich |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
I'd oil the bearings if nothing else. Oil might have floated away.
Martin Ivan Vegvary wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. BTW motor is: Dayton, 1HP, Cap. Start, Therm. Protected model 6K562F. Took a lot of scrubbing to get that information. Bearings = Ball Note on nameplate says that they are permanently lubricated and require no further lubrication. Does this mean they are sealed and water cannot get in? What would you guys do? Use it as is (while cautiously waiting for bearing noise to develop) or, make it a new project. Thanks for all the previous advice. Ivan Vegvary "Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message ... Okay, I finally took the electric motor (3/4 hp, capacitor start) off the cement mixer. This is the motor that got flooded under water for about a day or two (about 4 months ago). Shaft will not turn. What's my next step? Tap on it with a soft mallet? Try to take the end caps off? Move the shaft axially? If you've done this, please advise. If you think it's a lost cause, tell me. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
Right.
If you replace the $7 bearings with the cheap import ones - then what - do it every year ? Martin Rich Grise wrote: On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:59:54 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. I vote, if it works, don't fix it. ;-) Cheers! Rich |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:41:55 -0500, the infamous "Martin H. Eastburn"
scrawled the following: Right. If you replace the $7 bearings with the cheap import ones - then what - do it every year ? Have you had trouble with premature failure of import bearings, Martin? I wouldn't use one on my spaceship's gyro, but wouldn't hesitate to use them elsewhere. -- Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station. -- Joseph Addison, 'Cato' |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:41:55 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote: Right. If you replace the $7 bearings with the cheap import ones - then what - do it every year ? Martin Rich Grise wrote: On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:59:54 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. I vote, if it works, don't fix it. ;-) Cheers! Rich Difference in price from cheap crap import to decent quality bearing is likely less than 20%. Going for the ultimate, a factor of 5 or more. If you go to the work of changing them, use good enough parts that you only need to do it once. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:33:28 GMT, Rich Grise
wrote: On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:59:54 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote: Removed motor from cement mixer. Chiseled off chunks of splattered concrete from motor. Used a bearing puller to remove crusted on small pulley from motor shaft. While tapping on the end of the puller the motor shaft suddenly freed up and was able to turn. Plugged it in and it runs fine. Fairly quiet! Question: Tear it down further to look at bearings .. or .. use as is. I vote, if it works, don't fix it. ;-) Cheers! Rich If it's worth doing it's worth doing right. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:36:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:41:55 -0500, the infamous "Martin H. Eastburn" scrawled the following: Right. If you replace the $7 bearings with the cheap import ones - then what - do it every year ? Have you had trouble with premature failure of import bearings, Martin? I wouldn't use one on my spaceship's gyro, but wouldn't hesitate to use them elsewhere. Depends on the "import". I've had some that out of the box were worse than what I was replacing. Won't even think about russian. Polish are not too bad. Taiwanese are often pretty decent - japanese can be excellent. Howe about British, German, or Australian? They are imports too. For me, Made in USA is an import. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
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SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
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SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Aug 8, 4:33*am, wrote:
If it's worth doing it's worth doing right. I subscribe to the saying in " The Soul of a New Machine ". "Everything worth doing is not worth doing well" Dan. |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:36:57 -0400, clare wrote:
.... German, or Australian? They are imports too. For me, Made in USA is an import. "In Paris, Ballantine's is imported beer!" --- Frazier Crane Cheers! Rich |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:33:23 -0400, clare wrote:
Difference in price from cheap crap import to decent quality bearing is likely less than 20%. Going for the ultimate, a factor of 5 or more. If you go to the work of changing them, use good enough parts that you only need to do it once. Apropos not much of anything, I was once working on a new design, and needed to spec a bearing. I was using AutoCad, and SKF had downloadable autocad drawings on their website. I found one that would work, and imported it into my autocad drawing. My drawing was in inches, the SKF drawing was in millimeters. When I imported it, the bearing was bigger than the whole assembly! (I just scaled it by .03937, and everything came out OK.) Cheers! Rich |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:07:28 -0500, the infamous "Martin H. Eastburn"
scrawled the following: If you consider what a bad bearing could do - freeze a shaft and blow up the motor physically. Flywheel jerking around as a bearing grips and lets go... Flywheel explodes. I used to work for Palomar Technology in Carlsbad, CA back when they were being purchased by SKF. We built vibration monitoring and inspecting equipment to detect bearing failure prior to it happening. Another good flak-causing explosion would be a 30' turbine blade at the local electric generation plant. We wondered if pieces would hit in Vista if it blew at the SDG&E's Encina Power Plant in Carlsbad. But PT Vibralogs were showing the bearings to be sound, so we slept at night. g Once SKF took over, the corporate feel crept in, Dilbert reared his ugly head, and they moved the shop to Sandy Eggo (well, Clairmont Mesa/Little Vietnam.) I bailed with an early retirement package and started DIVERSIFY! rather than start commuting 3 hours a day for a $10/hr job. Feh! -- Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station. -- Joseph Addison, 'Cato' |
SOLVED!!? Electric motor, again, help
Many years ago I serviced by hardware backup to tech support and
software and applications to a large computer company 'up north'. They had a bedroom sized stone flywheel that continuously runs under power and it in turn drives a alternator for the equipment floor. The power company could switch taps and such - this would cause havoc in the labs - until the flywheel was installed. The engineering teams were positioned on a diagonal from the axis - just in case it went rolling through the wall or flying end over end. That was one impressive stone! It was the best power in the state. Never missed a half cycle or brownout. The flywheel kept on trucking. Martin Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:07:28 -0500, the infamous "Martin H. Eastburn" scrawled the following: If you consider what a bad bearing could do - freeze a shaft and blow up the motor physically. Flywheel jerking around as a bearing grips and lets go... Flywheel explodes. I used to work for Palomar Technology in Carlsbad, CA back when they were being purchased by SKF. We built vibration monitoring and inspecting equipment to detect bearing failure prior to it happening. Another good flak-causing explosion would be a 30' turbine blade at the local electric generation plant. We wondered if pieces would hit in Vista if it blew at the SDG&E's Encina Power Plant in Carlsbad. But PT Vibralogs were showing the bearings to be sound, so we slept at night. g Once SKF took over, the corporate feel crept in, Dilbert reared his ugly head, and they moved the shop to Sandy Eggo (well, Clairmont Mesa/Little Vietnam.) I bailed with an early retirement package and started DIVERSIFY! rather than start commuting 3 hours a day for a $10/hr job. Feh! -- Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station. -- Joseph Addison, 'Cato' |
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