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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are
up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? |
#2
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
"Chet" fired this volley in
: Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? Oil sump... The liquid has pretty high lubricity, and is easily pumped around the lubrication system, until things start to get hot. Then, sodium silicate in contact with hot metal forms metal silicates and silicides that effectively glue the parts together. The more it solidifies, the hotter the motor gets, accelerating the process. The solidified materials are also hard enough to badly score any parts that can be moved. Sodium silicate is the adhesive in "muffler patch" paste and muffler wrap bandages. This destruction of a valuable resource just hurts my mind. OK... DON'T re-sell the gas-guzzlers. But for heaven's sake, part them out! There are plenty of ongoing applications for those bigger motors where they're necessary, and high-compression, higher-efficiency baby 4- bangers won't do the job. Or they could DONATE the cars to folks who cannot work because they don't have reliable transportation. I hate government waste, but hate even more being forced to waste by the government. LLoyd |
#3
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Chet" fired this volley in : Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? Oil sump... The liquid has pretty high lubricity, and is easily pumped around the lubrication system, until things start to get hot. Then, sodium silicate in contact with hot metal forms metal silicates and silicides that effectively glue the parts together. The more it solidifies, the hotter the motor gets, accelerating the process. The solidified materials are also hard enough to badly score any parts that can be moved. Sodium silicate is the adhesive in "muffler patch" paste and muffler wrap bandages. This destruction of a valuable resource just hurts my mind. OK... DON'T re-sell the gas-guzzlers. But for heaven's sake, part them out! There are plenty of ongoing applications for those bigger motors where they're necessary, and high-compression, higher-efficiency baby 4- bangers won't do the job. Or they could DONATE the cars to folks who cannot work because they don't have reliable transportation. I hate government waste, but hate even more being forced to waste by the government. Helping the economy by destroying valuable property, helping the environment by forcing the (energy intensive) manufacturing of a bunch of cars. There's no better tasting mint than a gov'mint. -- www.wescottdesign.com |
#4
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Now you
will have to live with it. The thing about the cash for clunkers that gets me is that the program is hurting the very people that need help the worst-those that cannot buy a NEW car even with the $4500 co- payment. These are the poor folks who would benifite from having one of the 10 year old but still running fine "clunkers" being destroyed. |
#5
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Gerry fired this volley in news:8978c78b-b075-
: Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Who you callin' "you folks"? The only change I want is that asshole out of office, WITH his pick- pocket cronies. "When your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. When you lose your job, it's a depression. When Obama loses his job, it's 'change we can live with.'" LLoyd |
#6
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Aug 4, 1:36*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Gerry fired this volley in news:8978c78b-b075- : Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Who you callin' "you folks"? The only change I want is that asshole out of office, WITH his pick- pocket cronies. "When your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. *When you lose your job, it's a depression. *When Obama loses his job, it's 'change we can live with.'" LLoyd You folks? Everyone who voted for him or refused to vote at all because there was such a lack of choices. AND everyone who has voted for a democrat member of congress. We're all in this sinking boat together, like it or not |
#7
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:10:40 -0700 (PDT), Gerry wrote:
Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Now you will have to live with it. The thing about the cash for clunkers that gets me is that the program is hurting the very people that need help the worst-those that cannot buy a NEW car even with the $4500 co- payment. These are the poor folks who would benifite from having one of the 10 year old but still running fine "clunkers" being destroyed. The aim of the exercise isn't to help Elmer keep his clapped out old wreck on the road for another year or two, that would do nothing to stimulate the economy as a whole. It's to retain employment in the dealers, manufacturers, parts suppliers, finance companies etc. and their suppliers. If you can't understand that simple fact, you deserve to get your one meal a day from a soup kitchen after a long queue :-| Mark Rand RTFM |
#8
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Mark Rand wrote:
The aim of the exercise isn't to help Elmer keep his clapped out old wreck on the road for another year or two, that would do nothing to stimulate the economy as a whole. It's to retain employment in the dealers, manufacturers, parts suppliers, finance companies etc. and their suppliers. If you can't understand that simple fact, you deserve to get your one meal a day from a soup kitchen after a long queue :-| The aim is to get rid of SUV's. (At least in the hands of the non-elites) Wes |
#9
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
"Mark Rand" wrote in message ... On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:10:40 -0700 (PDT), Gerry wrote: Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Now you will have to live with it. The thing about the cash for clunkers that gets me is that the program is hurting the very people that need help the worst-those that cannot buy a NEW car even with the $4500 co- payment. These are the poor folks who would benifite from having one of the 10 year old but still running fine "clunkers" being destroyed. The aim of the exercise isn't to help Elmer keep his clapped out old wreck on the road for another year or two, that would do nothing to stimulate the economy as a whole. It's to retain employment in the dealers, manufacturers, parts suppliers, finance companies etc. and their suppliers. If you can't understand that simple fact, you deserve to get your one meal a day from a soup kitchen after a long queue :-| Mark Rand RTFM Now you see why I'm so optimistic for the US, Mark. The guys who don't get it -- and who have developed a sudden and surprising concern for the downtrodden -- are the ones who lost. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#10
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:02:57 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote: On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:10:40 -0700 (PDT), Gerry wrote: Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Now you will have to live with it. The thing about the cash for clunkers that gets me is that the program is hurting the very people that need help the worst-those that cannot buy a NEW car even with the $4500 co- payment. These are the poor folks who would benifite from having one of the 10 year old but still running fine "clunkers" being destroyed. The aim of the exercise isn't to help Elmer keep his clapped out old wreck on the road for another year or two, that would do nothing to stimulate the economy as a whole. It's to retain employment in the dealers, manufacturers, parts suppliers, finance companies etc. and their suppliers. If you can't understand that simple fact, you deserve to get your one meal a day from a soup kitchen after a long queue :-| Mark Rand RTFM And in 2010 when the new models come out..there wont be any buyers. And the auto industry will go ZIP right into the toilet. Gunner 'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.' Theodore Ro osevelt 1907 |
#11
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:10:40 -0700 (PDT), Gerry
wrote: Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Now you will have to live with it. The thing about the cash for clunkers that gets me is that the program is hurting the very people that need help the worst-those that cannot buy a NEW car even with the $4500 co- payment. These are the poor folks who would benifite from having one of the 10 year old but still running fine "clunkers" being destroyed. what the hell is this idea of a 10 year old car being a clunker? surely american knowhow can produce a car that lasts more than 10 years. in australia parts are generally only available for 20 years so a 20 year old car starts being unmaintainable. hell they all last 20 years in our country. maybe that's why american manufacturing is going down the gurgler. you guys losing the technological edge? Stealth Pilot |
#12
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:18:52 GMT, the infamous Stealth Pilot
scrawled the following: On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:10:40 -0700 (PDT), Gerry wrote: Well, you folks wanted change. You got it, like it or not. Now you will have to live with it. The thing about the cash for clunkers that gets me is that the program is hurting the very people that need help the worst-those that cannot buy a NEW car even with the $4500 co- payment. These are the poor folks who would benifite from having one of the 10 year old but still running fine "clunkers" being destroyed. what the hell is this idea of a 10 year old car being a clunker? surely american knowhow can produce a car that lasts more than 10 years. I think the idea is to remove all vehicles which don't measure up to the current gas mileage standards. in australia parts are generally only available for 20 years so a 20 year old car starts being unmaintainable. hell they all last 20 years in our country. maybe that's why american manufacturing is going down the gurgler. you guys losing the technological edge? Yes, to the government-mandated edge. big sigh You'll be reading a whole lot more about those for the next 3.5 years, or until something stronger than a symbolic tea party hits town. My guess is that Obama is likely to be remembered as the root cause (the stimulus, if you will) for American Revolution v2.0. -- "It was difficult for the three of us to write a book titled _The End of Prosperity_." "We're not doom and gloom people; we're natural optimists. And we're not part of the trendy set of intellectuals who like to trash our nation, blame America first for all the world's problems, or worst of all, predict with glee America's downfall as some kind of punishment for our alleged past environmental crimes, racism, financial mismanagement, greed, overconsumption, imperialism, or whatever the latest chic attack on the United States is." --page one, by Arthur B. Laffer, Stephen Moore, & Peter Tanous |
#13
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Stealth Pilot wrote:
in australia parts are generally only available for 20 years so a 20 year old car starts being unmaintainable. hell they all last 20 years in our country. I'm not familiar with your car models, but when I was there earlier this year, out in the country, I noticed a lot of cars that looked to be well over 20 years old. And not restored classics or hotrods (though did see a few of those as well) but daily drivers. This impressed me. I've just never understood the fascination so many have here with buying a new car every couple years. Jon |
#14
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
That woman that was ranting about doing to engines - making
them dump trash..... Melt them down as is - The water glass doesn't hurt melt. Yes - lots of pumps and machines that need engines could use these in special applications. I saw some on TV that were for sale - so maybe not all get the hit. Martin Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: "Chet" fired this volley in : Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? Oil sump... The liquid has pretty high lubricity, and is easily pumped around the lubrication system, until things start to get hot. Then, sodium silicate in contact with hot metal forms metal silicates and silicides that effectively glue the parts together. The more it solidifies, the hotter the motor gets, accelerating the process. The solidified materials are also hard enough to badly score any parts that can be moved. Sodium silicate is the adhesive in "muffler patch" paste and muffler wrap bandages. This destruction of a valuable resource just hurts my mind. OK... DON'T re-sell the gas-guzzlers. But for heaven's sake, part them out! There are plenty of ongoing applications for those bigger motors where they're necessary, and high-compression, higher-efficiency baby 4- bangers won't do the job. Or they could DONATE the cars to folks who cannot work because they don't have reliable transportation. I hate government waste, but hate even more being forced to waste by the government. LLoyd |
#15
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On 2009-08-04, Chet wrote:
Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? I hope that you do not need a password to read this (I have a full WSJ logon) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1249...googlenews_wsj I can post the entire article |
#16
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Let the Record show that Ignoramus22110
on or about Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:46:29 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On 2009-08-04, Chet wrote: Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? I hope that you do not need a password to read this (I have a full WSJ logon) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1249...googlenews_wsj I can post the entire article The link is good. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
#17
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On 2009-08-04, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that Ignoramus22110 on or about Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:46:29 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On 2009-08-04, Chet wrote: Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? I hope that you do not need a password to read this (I have a full WSJ logon) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1249...googlenews_wsj I can post the entire article The link is good. I have a feeling that I can post any WSJ article here is I append ?mod=googlenews_wsj at the end of the URL. How about this one: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1249...googlenews_wsj |
#18
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:46:29 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus22110
scrawled the following: On 2009-08-04, Chet wrote: Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? I hope that you do not need a password to read this (I have a full WSJ logon) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1249...googlenews_wsj I can post the entire article I can't wait for the bad guys to buy some and ruin someone's precious new car engine with it. sigh -- A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you. -- Joseph Rickaby |
#19
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Larry Jaques wrote:
I can't wait for the bad guys to buy some and ruin someone's precious new car engine with it. sigh I have a feeling the Greenpeacer / ELF types in the Obama administration had practice killing engines prior to CfC. The destruction method was too fiendish for a bureaucrat to come up with. Wes -- USA 1776 - 2008 Suicide |
#20
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:33:30 -0400, "Chet" wrote:
Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? So, Obama along with congress screws the poor man again, the supply of used cars and used parts dries up. The guy/teenager/minimum wage earner now needs to by a pricey fairly new car, or a cheap import like a Kia or Hyundai. There's a local car dealer in Allentown that's running radio ads along these lines. (soon to be overheard at the local garage) We could fix your car with an $800 junkyard engine if we could get one, but I'm sorry they were all destroyed in the cash for clunkers program, for $50 we can tow your car to the Kia dealer up the street. From what I've heard they must also destroy the transmission too. Maybe even the rear diff if a RWD car. No part of the drivetrain can be resold. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
#21
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Randy wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:33:30 -0400, "Chet" wrote: Interesting comment on the news this morning: sales of sodium silicate are up. Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. (Must be tied to the $4500 dollar rebates...) So, do you pour it in the tank? Air cleaner? Why does it work? So, Obama along with congress screws the poor man again, the supply of used cars and used parts dries up. The guy/teenager/minimum wage earner now needs to by a pricey fairly new car, or a cheap import like a Kia or Hyundai. WOW, there's only a three month supply of used cars in the whole country? That is shocking! I'd think that people like us would be thrilled, Imagine the hundreds I could get for that old motor in a few months. I'm gonna start stockpiling 12 MPG motors like I was holding onto primers! There's a local car dealer in Allentown that's running radio ads along these lines. A Car DEALER!! Yeah that's where I go first when I want honest facts, never been known to lead a guy astray, those car dealers! (soon to be overheard at the local garage) We could fix your car with an $800 junkyard engine if we could get one, but I'm sorry they were all destroyed in the cash for clunkers program, for $50 we can tow your car to the Kia dealer up the street. From what I've heard they must also destroy the transmission too. Maybe even the rear diff if a RWD car. No part of the drivetrain can be resold. FALSE! The transmission, drive shaft and rear-end can be sold as separate parts. But I know you whacko winger types are not bothered by the truth, and surely wouldn't break a sweat looking for a fact before you post something... So just go ahead and keep saying it. For those with enough brains not to vote for Palin, here's the info... http://www.cars.gov/files/amendment.pdf Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
#22
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:48:46 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote: (soon to be overheard at the local garage) We could fix your car with an $800 junkyard engine if we could get one, but I'm sorry they were all destroyed in the cash for clunkers program, for $50 we can tow your car to the Kia dealer up the street. From what I've heard they must also destroy the transmission too. Maybe even the rear diff if a RWD car. No part of the drivetrain can be resold. FALSE! The transmission, drive shaft and rear-end can be sold as separate parts. The story I read said the driveline had to be destroyed. That would include the trans and rear. However, the assholes in DC did a double speak in the wording. quoted below from your link. "This facility will not sell or transfer the trade-in vehicle’s engine block and drive train (unless with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts) at any time prior to its crushing or shredding." First it names the whole driveline, then exempts the trans, drive shaft and rear. WTF? Also note it specifically states the engine block, you could legally resell the heads, crankshaft and pistons and other parts. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
#23
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Also note it specifically states the engine block, you could legally
resell the heads, crankshaft and pistons and other parts. Not ethically... At least not after they run "sand" through 'em. Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/ Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill V8013-R |
#24
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:48:46 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote: But I know my whacko left-winger types Changed to reflect accuracy. 'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.' Theodore Ro osevelt 1907 |
#25
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Chet writes:
Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. No, not the car dealers. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT requires it. Read the 100 pages of the final rules on the program. And they were all effete about even this, worrying if there wasn't some environmental harm, or cost, or hazmat, or workplace risk, or any other whiny nanny liberal fret. This was chosen of things like drilling a hole in the block, or running without oil. This is not euthanasia for perfectly good machines. More like Nazi efficiency in killing. As long as we're going to slaughter innocents, we might as well be clean and effective about it. The machine must be RUINED without any salvage possibility. Also reminds one of battlefield "demil" procedures in the Army for captured weapons and materiel. Or the surplus Garand rifles being cut in half by the USA in peacetime instead of sold. |
#26
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Richard J Kinch wrote:
Chet writes: Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. No, not the car dealers. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT requires it. Read the 100 pages of the final rules on the program. And they were all effete about even this, worrying if there wasn't some environmental harm, or cost, or hazmat, or workplace risk, or any other whiny nanny liberal fret. This was chosen of things like drilling a hole in the block, or running without oil. This is not euthanasia for perfectly good machines. Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. If you have to anthropomorphize it, it is like taking a 15 year old, blind, incontinent, old mutt with mange on his final car ride to see the vet... As long as we're going to slaughter innocents, we might as well be clean and effective about it. The machine must be RUINED without any salvage possibility. That is the idea! Yeah! the winger is finally getting it!!!! Also reminds one of battlefield "demil" procedures in the Army for captured weapons and materiel. hardly, pretty much everything but the short block can be parted out and sold. Or the surplus Garand rifles being cut in half by the USA in peacetime instead of sold. Only if they only did it to rifles with lousy headspace, eroded throats and broken stocks... |
#27
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
"Stuart Wheaton" wrote in message ... Richard J Kinch wrote: Chet writes: Announcer said car dealers use the chemical to 'kill' engines so they can never be repaired. No, not the car dealers. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT requires it. Read the 100 pages of the final rules on the program. And they were all effete about even this, worrying if there wasn't some environmental harm, or cost, or hazmat, or workplace risk, or any other whiny nanny liberal fret. This was chosen of things like drilling a hole in the block, or running without oil. This is not euthanasia for perfectly good machines. Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. If you have to anthropomorphize it, it is like taking a 15 year old, blind, incontinent, old mutt with mange on his final car ride to see the vet... As long as we're going to slaughter innocents, we might as well be clean and effective about it. The machine must be RUINED without any salvage possibility. That is the idea! Yeah! the winger is finally getting it!!!! Also reminds one of battlefield "demil" procedures in the Army for captured weapons and materiel. hardly, pretty much everything but the short block can be parted out and sold. Or the surplus Garand rifles being cut in half by the USA in peacetime instead of sold. Only if they only did it to rifles with lousy headspace, eroded throats and broken stocks... One of the article cars was a 2002 Windstar. Not a crappy 15 year old polluting gas hog. |
#28
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Aug 5, 2:04*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
One of the article cars was a 2002 Windstar. *Not a crappy 15 year old polluting gas hog. Reports 18 mpg when I ran it through the eligibility calculator. If they replace it with a 30 mpg civicarolla... I ran the 1993 Geo Prizm that I did trade in two years ago... not eligible, presumably because it was rated for and still getting close to 30 mpg. |
#29
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
fired this volley in news:ae3799bc-e177-4566-
: On Aug 5, 2:04˙am, "Calif Bill" wrote: One of the article cars was a 2002 Windstar. ˙Not a crappy 15 year old polluting gas hog. Reports 18 mpg when I ran it through the eligibility calculator. If they replace it with a 30 mpg civicarolla... Consider the passenger-mile economy. Load that Windstar up with bodies, and it'll whip the ass of any econo-car. LLoyd |
#30
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
Stuart Wheaton writes:
Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. Fine, function, running machines with $1000s in remaining value. During the Great Depression, WWII, and for a while after, owning an automobile was an unfulfilled ambition for most people. How far we have, where we have so many that we must destroy them. We so resemble Japan. They destroy (*) cars over 3 years old for "safety" reasons. (*) Destroy by applying a prohibitive tax on ownership |
#31
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:21:32 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote: Stuart Wheaton writes: Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. Fine, function, running machines with $1000s in remaining value. During the Great Depression, WWII, and for a while after, owning an automobile was an unfulfilled ambition for most people. How far we have, where we have so many that we must destroy them. We so resemble Japan. They destroy (*) cars over 3 years old for "safety" reasons. (*) Destroy by applying a prohibitive tax on ownership we used to see a lot of those 3 year old cars imported into australia. most went on to give years, decades, of trouble free running until one of the unique to japan pollution mods stuffed up. then it was off for scrap. |
#32
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message ... On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:21:32 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote: Stuart Wheaton writes: Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. Fine, function, running machines with $1000s in remaining value. During the Great Depression, WWII, and for a while after, owning an automobile was an unfulfilled ambition for most people. How far we have, where we have so many that we must destroy them. We so resemble Japan. They destroy (*) cars over 3 years old for "safety" reasons. (*) Destroy by applying a prohibitive tax on ownership we used to see a lot of those 3 year old cars imported into australia. most went on to give years, decades, of trouble free running until one of the unique to japan pollution mods stuffed up. then it was off for scrap. For a long while -- and maybe now -- most of the used Japanese engines on the market were exports that were shipped here on that program. At one time it mandated that engines were not to be used after they had roughly 40,000 miles on them. They drive a lot less per year in Japan, so that was not a new car. They did the same with their machine tools at one time. The old ones (which, in the early '80s, were newer, on the average, than the average machine tool used in the US), wound up in Malaysia, Thailand, etc. This was a semi-official program worked out between MITI and the banks that owned most of their manufacturing companies. It worked for them. Every developed country needs a dumping ground for its junk. The US and Australia were their equivalent of international Dumpster-divers. Before you become too critical of the policy remember that they beat the hell out of you, and us, for over two decades, starting from nowhere. Their per capita GDP (PPP basis) is virtually the same as yours today according to the World Bank, even after their miserable decade, and they were the ones that were crushed by WWII and had few physical resources. Australia is loaded with resources. We still can't manufacture most big-ticket items, like cars and machine tools, as effectively and efficiently as they can. Neither can Australia. Whatever you think of their policy, it works for manufacturing, better than your policies or ours. -- Ed Huntress |
#33
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
The cash for clunkers program in the USA is like the song "match in
the gas tank, boom boom" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MywAigZ1leU But now it is "Sand in the crankcase, grind grind" Come on Obama, sing it with me. sand in the crankcase, GRIND! GRIND! |
#34
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Aug 5, 3:21*am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Stuart Wheaton writes: Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. Fine, function, running machines with $1000s in remaining value. During the Great Depression, WWII, and for a while after, owning an automobile was an unfulfilled ambition for most people. *How far we have, where we have so many that we must destroy them. There is no "must" - participation in the program is not mandatory. I doubt many people are going to be destroying cars that are worth more than the subsidy; the point of spending public money on this subsidy is to buy inefficient vehicles off the road and prop up the automakers - the old the vehicles are not destroyed, it becomes simply a cash handout with little greater public benefit. |
#35
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Aug 5, 12:28*pm, wrote:
I doubt many people are going to be destroying cars that are worth more than the subsidy; the point of spending public money on this subsidy is to buy inefficient vehicles off the road and prop up the automakers - the old the vehicles are not destroyed, it becomes simply a cash handout with little greater public benefit. That should of course say "if the old vehicles are not destroyed..." |
#36
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:28:36 -0700, cs_posting wrote:
On Aug 5, 3:21*am, Richard J Kinch wrote: Stuart Wheaton writes: Right, it is the destruction of old crappy machines that get lousy mileage. Fine, function, running machines with $1000s in remaining value. During the Great Depression, WWII, and for a while after, owning an automobile was an unfulfilled ambition for most people. *How far we have, where we have so many that we must destroy them. There is no "must" - participation in the program is not mandatory. I doubt many people are going to be destroying cars that are worth more than the subsidy; the point of spending public money on this subsidy is to buy inefficient vehicles off the road and prop up the automakers - the old the vehicles are not destroyed, it becomes simply a cash handout with little greater public benefit. Don't forget subsidizing Government Motors and the UAW. It reminds me of the Snake Ouroborous, eating its own tail. Thanks, Rich |
#37
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Sodium Silicate - engine killer...
There is no "must" - participation in the program is not mandatory.
Really? Please tell me where I opt out. Last I heard it was costing us $3 billion. |
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