put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.


Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.


Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)


Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.


I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.


As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).


If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.


Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?


I really appreciate your help!

On Jun 1, 11:55*am, stryped wrote:
*put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.

Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

No, it's because in turning over the motor without securing the heads,
you've pumped antifreeze that normally flows from the block into the
head and back down, out of the gap where they meet instead. Didn't
this whole project start from a bad head gasket to start with? That's
one of the reasons you have that gasket and tighten everything down to
start with.

Same thing with the oil--it has to get pumped up from the block up to
the valvetrain somehow, and the gasket, held tight by properly torqued
bolts, helps keep everything going where it needs to go. It doesn't
just keep the suck-squish-bang-blow inside the big round holes. It is
a carefully concieved and managed multipurpose device.

There are consequences for doing things half way and out-of-order.
This is one of them. You should probably pull the other head off and
clean it out too, since it's equally likely to be full of stray oil
and antifreeze. And who know if they've mixed, so after you've got it
all back together, you'll want to change out both sets of fluids.

You know, if you'd stopped over-thinking and playing around with all
this stuff, and just did it the way the haynes/motor/chilton's book
said, you have it back together and sold by now.

Stop playing, put it together right and get on with it already. Or
accept the consequences that this has become a big learning toy and
may be completely unsellable when you're done. You know, most people
who do that start with something small and cheap, like an old lawn
mower or snowthrower...

--Glenn Lyford

On Jun 1, 11:27*am, Glenn Lyford wrote:
On Jun 1, 11:55*am, stryped wrote:





*put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.

Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

No, it's because in turning over the motor without securing the heads,
you've pumped antifreeze that normally flows from the block into the
head and back down, out of the gap where they meet instead. *Didn't
this whole project start from a bad head gasket to start with? *That's
one of the reasons you have that gasket and tighten everything down to
start with.

Same thing with the oil--it has to get pumped up from the block up to
the valvetrain somehow, and the gasket, held tight by properly torqued
bolts, helps keep everything going where it needs to go. *It doesn't
just keep the suck-squish-bang-blow inside the big round holes. *It is
a carefully concieved and managed multipurpose device.

There are consequences for doing things half way and out-of-order.
This is one of them. *You should probably pull the other head off and
clean it out too, since it's equally likely to be full of stray oil
and antifreeze. *And who know if they've mixed, so after you've got it
all back together, you'll want to change out both sets of fluids.

You know, if you'd stopped over-thinking and playing around with all
this stuff, and just did it the way the haynes/motor/chilton's book
said, you have it back together and sold by now.

Stop playing, put it together right and get on with it already. *Or
accept the consequences that this has become a big learning toy and
may be completely unsellable when you're done. *You know, most people
who do that start with something small and cheap, like an old lawn
mower or snowthrower...

* --Glenn Lyford- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How can it circulate coolant when the pump is disconnected becasue the
belt is off?

The project started becasue there was antifreeze in the oil and it was
blowing white smoke and overheated. My guess was it was a head gasket.
I took the gasket off and coul dnot tell if it was good or not. Others
could not either and told me sometimes it is hard to tell just by
looking.

What exactly am I doing out of order. I am following the book and I am
torqueing everythign to spec. it is a slow process becasue I have
other commitments including a family and am working on it as I have
time.

On Jun 1, 11:27*am, Glenn Lyford wrote:
On Jun 1, 11:55*am, stryped wrote:





*put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.

Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

No, it's because in turning over the motor without securing the heads,
you've pumped antifreeze that normally flows from the block into the
head and back down, out of the gap where they meet instead. *Didn't
this whole project start from a bad head gasket to start with? *That's
one of the reasons you have that gasket and tighten everything down to
start with.

Same thing with the oil--it has to get pumped up from the block up to
the valvetrain somehow, and the gasket, held tight by properly torqued
bolts, helps keep everything going where it needs to go. *It doesn't
just keep the suck-squish-bang-blow inside the big round holes. *It is
a carefully concieved and managed multipurpose device.

There are consequences for doing things half way and out-of-order.
This is one of them. *You should probably pull the other head off and
clean it out too, since it's equally likely to be full of stray oil
and antifreeze. *And who know if they've mixed, so after you've got it
all back together, you'll want to change out both sets of fluids.

You know, if you'd stopped over-thinking and playing around with all
this stuff, and just did it the way the haynes/motor/chilton's book
said, you have it back together and sold by now.

Stop playing, put it together right and get on with it already. *Or
accept the consequences that this has become a big learning toy and
may be completely unsellable when you're done. *You know, most people
who do that start with something small and cheap, like an old lawn
mower or snowthrower...

* --Glenn Lyford- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

FWIW no coolant leaked out on the outside of the head when I turned
the crank with the heads on but unbolted.

On Jun 1, 12:27*pm, Glenn Lyford wrote:
On Jun 1, 11:55*am, stryped wrote:



*put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.

Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

No, it's because in turning over the motor without securing the heads,
you've pumped antifreeze that normally flows from the block into the
head and back down, out of the gap where they meet instead. *Didn't
this whole project start from a bad head gasket to start with? *That's
one of the reasons you have that gasket and tighten everything down to
start with.

Same thing with the oil--it has to get pumped up from the block up to
the valvetrain somehow, and the gasket, held tight by properly torqued
bolts, helps keep everything going where it needs to go. *It doesn't
just keep the suck-squish-bang-blow inside the big round holes. *It is
a carefully concieved and managed multipurpose device.

There are consequences for doing things half way and out-of-order.
This is one of them. *You should probably pull the other head off and
clean it out too, since it's equally likely to be full of stray oil
and antifreeze. *And who know if they've mixed, so after you've got it
all back together, you'll want to change out both sets of fluids.

You know, if you'd stopped over-thinking and playing around with all
this stuff, and just did it the way the haynes/motor/chilton's book
said, you have it back together and sold by now.

Stop playing, put it together right and get on with it already. *Or
accept the consequences that this has become a big learning toy and
may be completely unsellable when you're done. *You know, most people
who do that start with something small and cheap, like an old lawn
mower or snowthrower...

* --Glenn Lyford


I'm with Glenn on this. You're going to sell this once it gets
running, right? Bolt it up and run it. If it's OK, put the ad in the
paper. If it's not, THEN figure out what's wrong. You're
troubleshooting a problem that may not even exist. What are we looking
at - maybe a couple of hours to get it running?

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Jun 1, 11:27*am, Glenn Lyford wrote:
On Jun 1, 11:55*am, stryped wrote:





*put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.

Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

No, it's because in turning over the motor without securing the heads,
you've pumped antifreeze that normally flows from the block into the
head and back down, out of the gap where they meet instead. *Didn't
this whole project start from a bad head gasket to start with? *That's
one of the reasons you have that gasket and tighten everything down to
start with.

Same thing with the oil--it has to get pumped up from the block up to
the valvetrain somehow, and the gasket, held tight by properly torqued
bolts, helps keep everything going where it needs to go. *It doesn't
just keep the suck-squish-bang-blow inside the big round holes. *It is
a carefully concieved and managed multipurpose device.

There are consequences for doing things half way and out-of-order.
This is one of them. *You should probably pull the other head off and
clean it out too, since it's equally likely to be full of stray oil
and antifreeze. *And who know if they've mixed, so after you've got it
all back together, you'll want to change out both sets of fluids.

You know, if you'd stopped over-thinking and playing around with all
this stuff, and just did it the way the haynes/motor/chilton's book
said, you have it back together and sold by now.

Stop playing, put it together right and get on with it already. *Or
accept the consequences that this has become a big learning toy and
may be completely unsellable when you're done. *You know, most people
who do that start with something small and cheap, like an old lawn
mower or snowthrower...

* --Glenn Lyford- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How can it circulate coolant when the pump is disconnected becasue the
belt is off?

The project started becasue there was antifreeze in the oil and it was
blowing white smoke and overheated. My guess was it was a head gasket.
I took the gasket off and coul dnot tell if it was good or not. Others
could not either and told me sometimes it is hard to tell just by
looking.

What exactly am I doing out of order. I am following the book and I am
torqueing everythign to spec. it is a slow process becasue I have
other commitments including a family and am working on it as I have
time.


Did you think to heck the heads and block for warpage while you had it
open? There could be a problem there. Also, as you stated, you could
have a cracked block.

The reason that there is play in some of the rockers and not in others
is the profile of the cam lobes. Once you get everything back
together, if you turn the crank overslowly and check the play as the
crank rotates through you will see that the position of the play
changes.

Jim

Geezus, are you Still flogging that thing? . I got $100 sez it don't
get around the block once done. Any takers?
JR
Dweller in the cvellar


On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:55:40 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.


Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.


Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)


Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.


I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.


As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).


If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.


Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?


I really appreciate your help!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

On Jun 2, 1:25*am, JR North wrote:
Geezus, are you Still flogging that thing? . I got $100 sez it don't
get around the block once done. Any takers?
JR
Dweller in the cvellar

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:55:40 -0700 (PDT), stryped





wrote:
put both heads on the 3.9 v6 Dodge but did not put the bolts in or
bolt them down. No pushrods in either. Everythign was clean and dry
and the cylinders oiled before I put the gasket and heads on. Again,
nothing was bolted down.

For a few days I had been turnign the crank by hand seeing if the
balancer was reading TDC, the rotor was pointing in the appropriate
direction.

Yesterday, I don’t remember why, but I took the driver's side head
off. (Just lifted it off.) I think I did it because I noticed the
outside of the head was wet with oil and I relaized I probably should
have torqued the head down first before ptuing the rocker arms on. (I
oiled the rocker arms and I think this wetness was from the rocker
arms. Of course it seeped through because there were no bolts in the
head.

Well, to my dismay, the back two cylinders on the drivers side each
had about a teaspoon of antifreeze on top of the piston. One of these
is th episton that I found coolant in before takign the heads off. (I
stuck winshield washer hose in the spark plug hole and siphoned it
out.)

Does this mean I have a craked block? Now worried, I lifted the
passanger side head off and there was no coolant in that one.

I convinced myself last night that the coolant was probably just due
to the head not being bolted down and I recleaned everythign and
bolted and torqued the head. But this morning I am not so sure.

As a test before boltign the head down, I worked the crank several
revolutions and did nto see coolant in the cylinders. I also but an
air gun in a coolant passage in the block. Coolant came out of a
lower
passage but none I could see in the cylinder. (Pressure was not that
high though).

If the block is cracked I guess I will have to junk it. That would be
disappointing.

Also, after I torqued the head down, I pout the pushrods in and
torqued the rockers to 22 ft pounds. When I grap the rockers and
atempt to shake, some don’t budge, so have play and I can move them,
is this normal?

I really appreciate your help!

--------------------------------------------------------------
* * * *Home Page:http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
* * * If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
* * Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
*The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
* * No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses * *
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have other family and other committments so I have only been able to
work on this a little at a time.

(And yes the heads were checked for flatness and actually had them
reworked also.) These heads are off another truck.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:55:40 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:25:48 -0700, the infamous JR North
scrawled the following:

Geezus, are you Still flogging that thing? . I got $100 sez it don't
get around the block once done. Any takers?

PDFTFT.


-
Press HERE to arm. (Release to detonate.)
-----------