I'm installing a brake resistor on my 10EE. (After only 10 years) Its a
motortronics CSD VFD
http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/...d-r2-large.pdf

The manual doesn't have a section on dynamic braking, just detailed
descriptions of the parameters. Could somebody double check me on the
programming here?


FN02 decel time - change to lower value, seconds to stop

(FN44 and FN48 have braking info, leave at factory default)

FN53 DC braking time set same as decel time
FN54 DC braking injection frequency ??????? leave at factory default
FN55 DC braking level ?????????? leave at factory default, or change to max?

I don't understand these last two so i clipped the manual below. Do i need
any other changes?

Karl





Fn53 = DC Braking time - Factory Setting = 0.5 sec.; Range = 0 - 25.5 sec

Amount of time the DC current is applied to the motor.

Fn54 = DC Braking Injection Freq. - Factory Setting = 1.5 Hz.;

Range = 0.1 - 10 Hz

The frequency at which, while the drive is decelerating, it will switch

from dynamic braking to DC injection braking.

Fn55 = DC Braking level - Factory Setting = 8%; Range = 0 - 20%

Defines the magnitude of the DC current and, thereby, the magnitude

of DC torque to the motor.

On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
I'm installing a brake resistor on my 10EE. (After only 10 years) Its a
motortronics CSD VFD
http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/...d-r2-large.pdf

The manual doesn't have a section on dynamic braking, just detailed
descriptions of the parameters. Could somebody double check me on the
programming here?


FN02 decel time - change to lower value, seconds to stop

(FN44 and FN48 have braking info, leave at factory default)

FN53 DC braking time set same as decel time
FN54 DC braking injection frequency ??????? leave at factory default
FN55 DC braking level ?????????? leave at factory default, or change to max?

I would try not to use DC braking.

DC braking is not the same as using your brake resistor.

Your normal braking is done by decreasing frequency below the motor's
RPM. This makes the motor act as a generator, which produces extra DC
voltage, which the drive dumps into the resistor.

i

I don't understand these last two so i clipped the manual below. Do i need
any other changes?

Karl





Fn53 = DC Braking time - Factory Setting = 0.5 sec.; Range = 0 - 25.5 sec

Amount of time the DC current is applied to the motor.

Fn54 = DC Braking Injection Freq. - Factory Setting = 1.5 Hz.;

Range = 0.1 - 10 Hz

The frequency at which, while the drive is decelerating, it will switch

from dynamic braking to DC injection braking.

Fn55 = DC Braking level - Factory Setting = 8%; Range = 0 - 20%

Defines the magnitude of the DC current and, thereby, the magnitude

of DC torque to the motor.

I would try not to use DC braking.

DC braking is not the same as using your brake resistor.

Your normal braking is done by decreasing frequency below the motor's
RPM. This makes the motor act as a generator, which produces extra DC
voltage, which the drive dumps into the resistor.

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time, no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
I would try not to use DC braking.

DC braking is not the same as using your brake resistor.

Your normal braking is done by decreasing frequency below the motor's
RPM. This makes the motor act as a generator, which produces extra DC
voltage, which the drive dumps into the resistor.

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time, no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.

Karl

My understanding of the DC braking, is that you set it to cut in when
you have a load that must be held in position between the decel starting
and the motor brake engaging, like with a loaded dumbwaiter. if the
motor is just ramping down to a stop, and the driven equipment won't try
to move the motor before the brake engages, or if it doesn't matter if
things drift a touch between slow and stop, you do not need DC.


Stuart

On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:

I would try not to use DC braking.

DC braking is not the same as using your brake resistor.

Your normal braking is done by decreasing frequency below the motor's
RPM. This makes the motor act as a generator, which produces extra DC
voltage, which the drive dumps into the resistor.

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time, no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.


This would be my suggestion, yes. Pick decel time so that the lathe
can decelerate at highest RPM, without tripping on overvoltage.

i

On 2009-06-01, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
I would try not to use DC braking.

DC braking is not the same as using your brake resistor.

Your normal braking is done by decreasing frequency below the motor's
RPM. This makes the motor act as a generator, which produces extra DC
voltage, which the drive dumps into the resistor.

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time, no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.

Karl

My understanding of the DC braking, is that you set it to cut in when
you have a load that must be held in position between the decel starting
and the motor brake engaging, like with a loaded dumbwaiter. if the
motor is just ramping down to a stop, and the driven equipment won't try
to move the motor before the brake engages, or if it doesn't matter if
things drift a touch between slow and stop, you do not need DC.

Very well said.

DC braking is more like a mechanical brake, in that it holds the motor.

i

On May 31, 6:16*pm, Ignoramus7409
wrote:
On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:



I'm installing a brake resistor on my 10EE. (After only 10 years) Its a
motortronics CSD VFD
http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/...cs-csd-r2-larg...

The manual doesn't have a section on dynamic braking, just detailed
descriptions of the parameters. Could somebody double check me on the
programming here?

FN02 * *decel time *- change to lower value, seconds to stop

(FN44 and FN48 have braking info, leave at factory default)

FN53 DC braking time set same as decel time
FN54 DC braking injection frequency *??????? *leave at factory default
FN55 DC braking level ?????????? leave at factory default, or change to max?

I would try not to use DC braking.

DC braking is not the same as using your brake resistor.

Your normal braking is done by decreasing frequency below the motor's
RPM. This makes the motor act as a generator, which produces extra DC
voltage, which the drive dumps into the resistor.

i

I don't understand these last two so i clipped the manual below. Do i need
any other changes?

Karl

Fn53 = DC Braking time - Factory Setting = 0.5 sec.; Range = 0 - 25.5 sec

Amount of time the DC current is applied to the motor.

Fn54 = DC Braking Injection Freq. - Factory Setting = 1.5 Hz.;

Range = 0.1 - 10 Hz

The frequency at which, while the drive is decelerating, it will switch

from dynamic braking to DC injection braking.

Fn55 = DC Braking level - Factory Setting = 8%; Range = 0 - 20%

Defines the magnitude of the DC current and, thereby, the magnitude

of DC torque to the motor.

I would have to concur with Iggy. Your equipment would have to be
designed to withstand the sudden stopping. And I do mean sudden.

In another life, I programmed high speed check reader sorters that
used DC to stop the motors in the sorter. There could be up to 5-6
motors all required to go from full speed to stopped in just a few
milliseconds when a paper jam was sensed. Quite a noise!

You need to determine how quickly you want to motors to stop and see
if restive loading will do the job. Take into consideration any drive
belts and what they are driving. How will they react to rapid or
sudden stops?

Good luck, Paul

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

My understanding of the DC braking, is that you set it to cut in when
you have a load that must be held in position between the decel starting
and the motor brake engaging, like with a loaded dumbwaiter. if the
motor is just ramping down to a stop, and the driven equipment won't try
to move the motor before the brake engages, or if it doesn't matter if
things drift a touch between slow and stop, you do not need DC.

I see dc braking used in tool changer arms on older VMC's and in stopping the tool
carosel. Both things you want to stop at precise positions.

I don't see any reason to use it on the lathe.

Wes

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time, no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.


This would be my suggestion, yes. Pick decel time so that the lathe
can decelerate at highest RPM, without tripping on overvoltage.


OK, I mounted the brake resistor and gave it a try, very little if any
improvement in braking. In contrast, on my mill and CHNC, the braking
improvement was dramatic. These were with Hitachi and I made some program
changes to enable braking. My guess is something is missing here on this
motortronic drive. Any suggestions?

Karl

On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time, no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.


This would be my suggestion, yes. Pick decel time so that the lathe
can decelerate at highest RPM, without tripping on overvoltage.


OK, I mounted the brake resistor and gave it a try, very little if any
improvement in braking. In contrast, on my mill and CHNC, the braking
improvement was dramatic. These were with Hitachi and I made some program
changes to enable braking. My guess is something is missing here on this
motortronic drive. Any suggestions?

So, what happens if you run the lathe at medium speed, like 300 RPM,
then turn off electricity (so that there is no electronic braking) and
time the stopping time with a stopwatch. Then set the VFD to stop it
in 1/2 of that time and measure it using stopping. See if you get an
improvement, that would tell you if your VFD is working.

i

"Ignoramus17163" wrote in message
...
On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time,
no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.


This would be my suggestion, yes. Pick decel time so that the lathe
can decelerate at highest RPM, without tripping on overvoltage.


OK, I mounted the brake resistor and gave it a try, very little if any
improvement in braking. In contrast, on my mill and CHNC, the braking
improvement was dramatic. These were with Hitachi and I made some program
changes to enable braking. My guess is something is missing here on this
motortronic drive. Any suggestions?

So, what happens if you run the lathe at medium speed, like 300 RPM,
then turn off electricity (so that there is no electronic braking) and
time the stopping time with a stopwatch. Then set the VFD to stop it
in 1/2 of that time and measure it using stopping. See if you get an
improvement, that would tell you if your VFD is working.

The VFD is definitely working. I got an 8" adjust true chuck for this lathe.
Much heavier than my 6". I have found I have to slow down to 1500 RPM before
stopping or I get an over voltage KO on stop. When this happens it coasts
for 10+ seconds. If it don't KO it stops in 4 seconds and you can see the
VFD slowing it down. Adding the resistor hasn't helped this issue much if
at all.

Karl

On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:

"Ignoramus17163" wrote in message
...
On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:

Are you saying just hook up the brake resistor and reduce decel time,
no
other program changes? Seems to easy to be true.


This would be my suggestion, yes. Pick decel time so that the lathe
can decelerate at highest RPM, without tripping on overvoltage.


OK, I mounted the brake resistor and gave it a try, very little if any
improvement in braking. In contrast, on my mill and CHNC, the braking
improvement was dramatic. These were with Hitachi and I made some program
changes to enable braking. My guess is something is missing here on this
motortronic drive. Any suggestions?

So, what happens if you run the lathe at medium speed, like 300 RPM,
then turn off electricity (so that there is no electronic braking) and
time the stopping time with a stopwatch. Then set the VFD to stop it
in 1/2 of that time and measure it using stopping. See if you get an
improvement, that would tell you if your VFD is working.

The VFD is definitely working. I got an 8" adjust true chuck for this lathe.
Much heavier than my 6". I have found I have to slow down to 1500 RPM before
stopping or I get an over voltage KO on stop. When this happens it coasts
for 10+ seconds. If it don't KO it stops in 4 seconds and you can see the
VFD slowing it down. Adding the resistor hasn't helped this issue much if
at all.

OK, so the VFD is working, but adding a resistor makes no difference?

Did you cover the basics, such as is that the right sized resistor, is
it plugged in correctly, is the resistance as specified (maybe it is
open?)

i

OK, so the VFD is working, but adding a resistor makes no difference?

Yep


Did you cover the basics, such as is that the right sized resistor, is
it plugged in correctly, is the resistance as specified (maybe it is
open?)

I'm slightly off on the ohm spec. it calls for 40 ohms, I tested 35. Should
be close enough. The manual just calls for connection to terminals P and R.
That looks good. What voltages should i see here on decel and is it AC or
DC? I could do some checks this way.

Karl

On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
OK, so the VFD is working, but adding a resistor makes no difference?

Yep


Did you cover the basics, such as is that the right sized resistor, is
it plugged in correctly, is the resistance as specified (maybe it is
open?)

I'm slightly off on the ohm spec. it calls for 40 ohms, I tested 35. Should
be close enough. The manual just calls for connection to terminals P and R.
That looks good. What voltages should i see here on decel and is it AC or
DC? I could do some checks this way.

Should be something like 300 volts DC, give or take.

be careful.

i

"Ignoramus17163" wrote in message
...
On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
OK, so the VFD is working, but adding a resistor makes no difference?

Yep


Did you cover the basics, such as is that the right sized resistor, is
it plugged in correctly, is the resistance as specified (maybe it is
open?)

I'm slightly off on the ohm spec. it calls for 40 ohms, I tested 35.
Should
be close enough. The manual just calls for connection to terminals P and
R.
That looks good. What voltages should i see here on decel and is it AC or
DC? I could do some checks this way.

Should be something like 300 volts DC, give or take.

be careful.

i

I just re-double checked everything. page 14 in the manual gives the
resistor size - 40 ohms. page 15 shows the power terminals. My 205 unit is
line 1.

With no power, i get 35 ohm between pins P and R, the power resistor
teminals. same reading accross the resistor. (Duh, there's just wire between
these check points)

With the VFD running I get 13-14 volts AC. During stop its up to 30 - 40
volts AC.(not DC)

My conclusion is this brake resistor is not enabled. I'm still hooked on
thinking it needs programming. Or, you got another idea?

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
"Ignoramus17163" wrote in message
...
On 2009-06-01, Karl Townsend wrote:
OK, so the VFD is working, but adding a resistor makes no difference?
Yep

Did you cover the basics, such as is that the right sized resistor, is
it plugged in correctly, is the resistance as specified (maybe it is
open?)
I'm slightly off on the ohm spec. it calls for 40 ohms, I tested 35.
Should
be close enough. The manual just calls for connection to terminals P and
R.
That looks good. What voltages should i see here on decel and is it AC or
DC? I could do some checks this way.
Should be something like 300 volts DC, give or take.

be careful.

i

I just re-double checked everything. page 14 in the manual gives the
resistor size - 40 ohms. page 15 shows the power terminals. My 205 unit is
line 1.

With no power, i get 35 ohm between pins P and R, the power resistor
teminals. same reading accross the resistor. (Duh, there's just wire between
these check points)

With the VFD running I get 13-14 volts AC. During stop its up to 30 - 40
volts AC.(not DC)

My conclusion is this brake resistor is not enabled. I'm still hooked on
thinking it needs programming. Or, you got another idea?

Karl






Page 7 of 76 in the PDF manual at the top says

"The CSD Series unit offers an optional function called dynamic braking.
Dynamic braking, in adjustable frequency drives, allows the motor to
produce 100% braking torque for a 10% duty cycle for four-quadrant
operation (like DC regenerative drives). With dynamic braking, the
regenerative energy from the motor is dissipated by switching the
dynamic braking transistor to shunt the regenerative current from the
DC bus capacitors through the braking resistor (See Figure 1 - 3).
This circuit is optional in the CSD drive line, please contact the
factory if your application requires dynamic braking."


Your drive may not have the chopper circuit installed as an option to
use the braking resistor.

Page 7 of 76 in the PDF manual at the top says

"The CSD Series unit offers an optional function called dynamic braking.
Dynamic braking, in adjustable frequency drives, allows the motor to
produce 100% braking torque for a 10% duty cycle for four-quadrant
operation (like DC regenerative drives). With dynamic braking, the
regenerative energy from the motor is dissipated by switching the
dynamic braking transistor to shunt the regenerative current from the
DC bus capacitors through the braking resistor (See Figure 1 - 3).
This circuit is optional in the CSD drive line, please contact the factory
if your application requires dynamic braking."


Your drive may not have the chopper circuit installed as an option to use
the braking resistor.


BUMMER! I had never read that paragraph. This unit is out of production,
safe to assume I can't upgrade anymore.

Thanks for pointing out my problem.

Karl

On 2009-06-02, Karl Townsend wrote:
Page 7 of 76 in the PDF manual at the top says

"The CSD Series unit offers an optional function called dynamic braking.
Dynamic braking, in adjustable frequency drives, allows the motor to
produce 100% braking torque for a 10% duty cycle for four-quadrant
operation (like DC regenerative drives). With dynamic braking, the
regenerative energy from the motor is dissipated by switching the
dynamic braking transistor to shunt the regenerative current from the
DC bus capacitors through the braking resistor (See Figure 1 - 3).
This circuit is optional in the CSD drive line, please contact the factory
if your application requires dynamic braking."


Your drive may not have the chopper circuit installed as an option to use
the braking resistor.


BUMMER! I had never read that paragraph. This unit is out of production,
safe to assume I can't upgrade anymore.

Thanks for pointing out my problem.

I have a 5 HP VFD for sale with brake resistor


i

Karl

On May 31, 7:29*pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I'm installing a brake resistor on my 10EE. (After only 10 years) Its a
motortronics CSD VFDhttp://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/vfd/motortronics-csd-r2-larg...

The manual doesn't have a section on dynamic braking, just detailed
descriptions of the parameters. Could somebody double check me on the
programming here?

FN02 * *decel time *- change to lower value, seconds to stop

(FN44 and FN48 have braking info, leave at factory default)

FN53 DC braking time set same as decel time
FN54 DC braking injection frequency *??????? *leave at factory default
FN55 DC braking level ?????????? leave at factory default, or change to max?

I don't understand these last two so i clipped the manual below. Do i need
any other changes?

Karl

Fn53 = DC Braking time - Factory Setting = 0.5 sec.; Range = 0 - 25..5 sec

Amount of time the DC current is applied to the motor.

Fn54 = DC Braking Injection Freq. - Factory Setting = 1.5 Hz.;

Range = 0.1 - 10 Hz

The frequency at which, while the drive is decelerating, it will switch

from dynamic braking to DC injection braking.

Fn55 = DC Braking level - Factory Setting = 8%; Range = 0 - 20%

Defines the magnitude of the DC current and, thereby, the magnitude

of DC torque to the motor.

Even if the drive does not have dynamic braking, it sounds like it
supports DC braking.
Contrary to the other posters, there is no "Brake" attatched to the
motor.
The drive applies a DC current to the windings. This will create a
braking action.
It is essentially driving the motor at Zero HZ, This is similar to
driving the motor at a speed faster than it is going, it WANTS to STOP
with DC applied ot it.
can you try bumping up Fn55, the magnitude of DC braking?

It appears that Fn53 might leave the DC braking on a little longer
than the Deccel time.
I am completely speculating now.... But that may be so that it will
continue to apply DC braking after it is Commanded to stop, so that
any coasting is impeded.


Let us know what happens next.

Karl Townsend wrote:

Page 7 of 76 in the PDF manual at the top says

"The CSD Series unit offers an optional function called dynamic braking.
Dynamic braking, in adjustable frequency drives, allows the motor to
produce 100% braking torque for a 10% duty cycle for four-quadrant
operation (like DC regenerative drives). With dynamic braking, the
regenerative energy from the motor is dissipated by switching the
dynamic braking transistor to shunt the regenerative current from the
DC bus capacitors through the braking resistor (See Figure 1 - 3).
This circuit is optional in the CSD drive line, please contact the factory
if your application requires dynamic braking."


Your drive may not have the chopper circuit installed as an option to use
the braking resistor.

BUMMER! I had never read that paragraph. This unit is out of production,
safe to assume I can't upgrade anymore.


If someone has the same model with that option, it shouldn't be hard
to duplicate. They may use the same module on other models, too.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!