--I'm slowly working out the intricacies of tooting whistles. I've
found that they're easy to toot on just a few psi of air from the ass end of
a vacuum cleaner; i.e. a HVLP source. But if I attach a whistle to a
manifold and use a solenoid valve to turn it on and off I need as much as
80psi to get the same effect from the whistle. This leads me to believe that
either the narrow passages in the valve is behaving like a flow restrictor
or the narrow passage where an air hose is connected to the manifold is the
problem. Can't do anything about the valve but I could add a tee between
manifold and valve and add a second or third source of air from the
compressor.
--Anywayyyy I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's been
there, done that. Suggestions welcome.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Your assumptions are correct and this is where it gets expensive. You need a
solonoid valve that has a high flow rate. The bigger the horn, the more flow
is required. These valves are expensive and hard to find.
Steve

"steamer" wrote in message
...
--I'm slowly working out the intricacies of tooting whistles. I've
found that they're easy to toot on just a few psi of air from the ass end
of
a vacuum cleaner; i.e. a HVLP source. But if I attach a whistle to a
manifold and use a solenoid valve to turn it on and off I need as much as
80psi to get the same effect from the whistle. This leads me to believe
that
either the narrow passages in the valve is behaving like a flow restrictor
or the narrow passage where an air hose is connected to the manifold is
the
problem. Can't do anything about the valve but I could add a tee between
manifold and valve and add a second or third source of air from the
compressor.
--Anywayyyy I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's been
there, done that. Suggestions welcome.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Mar 12, 12:46*pm, steamer wrote:
* * * * --I'm slowly working out the intricacies of tooting whistles. I've
found that they're easy to toot on just a few psi of air from the ass end of
a vacuum cleaner; i.e. a HVLP source. But if I attach a whistle to a
manifold and use a solenoid valve to turn it on and off I need as much as
80psi to get the same effect from the whistle. This leads me to believe that
either the narrow passages in the valve is behaving like a flow restrictor
or the narrow passage where an air hose is connected to the manifold is the
problem. Can't do anything about the valve but I could add a tee between
manifold and valve and add a second or third source of air from the
compressor.
* * * * --Anywayyyy I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's been
there, done that. Suggestions welcome.

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Politics is a sinkhole for
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *people without hobbies....
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Maybe you can take a good fair-sized 1/4 turn ball valve and attach a
small air cylinder to operate it?
Maybe use a simple compound lever to reduce the stroke requirement and
increase the activation speed.
Then use the solenoid on the air cylinder.

Could use a single-acting cylinder and a spring return to keep it
simple.


Dave

On Mar 12, 12:46 pm, steamer wrote:
--I'm slowly working out the intricacies of tooting whistles. I've
found that they're easy to toot on just a few psi of air from the ass end of
a vacuum cleaner; i.e. a HVLP source. But if I attach a whistle to a
manifold and use a solenoid valve to turn it on and off I need as much as
80psi to get the same effect from the whistle. This leads me to believe that
either the narrow passages in the valve is behaving like a flow restrictor
or the narrow passage where an air hose is connected to the manifold is the
problem. Can't do anything about the valve but I could add a tee between
manifold and valve and add a second or third source of air from the
compressor.
--Anywayyyy I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's been
there, done that. Suggestions welcome.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

You have a couple of other good suggestions, mine would be to take the
output of the valve through a venture to increase flow rate something
like the high flow low pressure from the vacuum.

CarlBoyd

Steve Lusardi wrote:

Your assumptions are correct and this is where it gets expensive. You need a
solonoid valve that has a high flow rate. The bigger the horn, the more flow
is required. These valves are expensive and hard to find.

Think a simple homebuilt solenoid "ball" type valve. The ball valve can
be a chromed shaft with a cross hole fitted into a delrin manifold and
rotated 90 degrees on/off by a small solenoid and crank arm. At low
pressure, the small leakage from a slightly loose fit won't matter.

Feed the large dia manifold from an accumulator tank, I'd suggest one of
the 10 gal portable tanks with a large port like 2" welded in, and fed
via the normal port with a regulator set to a few psi. Perhaps measure
the PSI from the vacuum to get an idea of how few you need.

On Mar 12, 1:03*pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Your assumptions are correct and this is where it gets expensive. You need a
solonoid valve that has a high flow rate. The bigger the horn, the more flow
is required. These valves are expensive and hard to find.
Steve

Maybe the water control solenoid valves off a washing machine?

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Maybe the water control solenoid valves off a washing machine?
--Gonna be running steam eventually and propane too so I like my
donated explosion-proof ones..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Mar 12, 4:29*pm, steamer wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
Maybe the water control solenoid valves off a washing machine?

* * * * --Gonna be running steam eventually and propane too so I like my
donated explosion-proof ones..

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Politics is a sinkhole for
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *people without hobbies....
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.


Dave

On Mar 12, 6:06*pm, wrote:
On Mar 12, 4:29*pm, steamer wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:
Maybe the water control solenoid valves off a washing machine?

* * * * --Gonna be running steam eventually and propane too so I like my
donated explosion-proof ones..

Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.
Dave

Has anyone here ever made DIY spool valves?

Actually-In most large older organ systems they made the large valves
from wood and use a leather flap seal-I tried it myself with a hole
saw and some wood scraps and used small 1/2 inch stroke solenoids to
open them-I used entension springs to hold them shut. You can also
make a wood manifold box under them and have a complete, low profile
unit. I used 2" holes in mine. You might have to experiment. I havent
played with that kinda thing for some time, but it was fun while it
lasted......I did run mine from a vac at first.

Mark


On Mar 12, 6:06�pm, wrote:
On Mar 12, 4:29�pm, steamer wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:
Maybe the water control solenoid valves off a washing machine?

� � � � --Gonna be running steam eventually and propane too so I like my
donated explosion-proof ones..

--
� � � � "Steamboat Ed" Haas � � � � : �Politics is a sinkhole for
� � � � Hacking the Trailing Edge! �: �people without hobbies...
� � � � � � � � � � � � �www.nmpproducts.com
� � � � � � � � � �---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.

Dave

steamer wrote:
... easy to toot on just a few psi of air ... a HVLP source. ...

This is the key: HV & LP. Which suggests butterfly valves. Easily made
to any size & easily controlled.

Bob

steamer writes:

This leads me to believe that
either the narrow passages in the valve is behaving like a flow
restrictor or the narrow passage where an air hose is connected to the
manifold is the problem.

You want a "dump" valve. A big passage that opens responsively with little
energy of actuation.

This sounds a lot like the throttle on the air intake on an internal
combustion engine. How do they solve that problem?

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 12, 1:03 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Your assumptions are correct and this is where it gets expensive. You need a
solonoid valve that has a high flow rate. The bigger the horn, the more flow
is required. These valves are expensive and hard to find.
Steve

Maybe the water control solenoid valves off a washing machine?

No, these are pilot-operated servo valves (of
ingenious construction). They generally have a
pin with a thinner section in the middle. They
poke through a small hole in the valve diaphragm.
When the pin moves to the other side, it allows
water pressure to build up and move the diaphragm.
They need a certain amount of pressure (tens of
PSI) to operate reliably, and the diaphragm
doesn't open very far.

The pipe organ guys use a solenoid-operated pilot
valve to admit air to a bellows that operates the
big valve. A small double-acting solenoid valve
opeating a little Bimba air cylinder that operates
a 1/2" (or bigger) ball valve would sure do it.
You might be able to get all these parts surplus
or eBay.

Jon

wrote:

Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.
--Does this activate fast enough to get a good crisp bark out of a
whistle?


--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Mar 13, 12:07*pm, steamer wrote:
wrote:
Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.

* * * * --Does this activate fast enough to get a good crisp bark out of a
whistle?

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Politics is a sinkhole for

You want clever valves?
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm
Check the 21 inch torpedo tube manual.

On Mar 13, 12:07*pm, steamer wrote:
wrote:
Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.

* * * * --Does this activate fast enough to get a good crisp bark out of a
whistle?

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Politics is a sinkhole for
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *people without hobbies....
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I'd imagine the key would be in using a lever arrangement so that a
small amount of cylinder movement created a large amount of rotational
motion at the ball valve. Or maybe there are rotational actuators out
there.


Dave

On Mar 13, 12:45*pm, wrote:
On Mar 13, 12:07*pm, steamer wrote:

wrote:
Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.

* * * * --Does this activate fast enough to get a good crisp bark out of a
whistle?

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Politics is a sinkhole for
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *people without hobbies...
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I'd imagine the key would be in using a lever arrangement so that a
small amount of cylinder movement created a large amount of rotational
motion at the ball valve. Or maybe there are rotational actuators out
there.

Dave

Oh, and as mentioned, a butterfly valve may also be a good choice,
essentially 1/4 turn also but more flow for a given size. Probably
less friction during opening/closing, too.


Dave

steamer wrote:

wrote:

Using them to control a small air cylinder that controls a fair-sized
ball valve falls into that strategy nicely.
--Does this activate fast enough to get a good crisp bark out of a
whistle?

I'd expect this relay setup to have a noticeable delay, which is why I
suggested a DIY HVLP rotary valve setup directly operated by a solenoid.
Since it's low pressure you don't need tight seals and the resulting
friction, so the solenoid shouldn't need to be particularly large.

Plenty of solenoid choices he
http://www.mcmaster.com/#electric-solenoids/=zi4wi

If you need to experiment on a tighter budget-Solenoid choice here
too-

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co....asp?dept=1178

I have ordered from these folks for years-Good stuff a tad cheaper
until you figure out what you need.

Mark


Plenty of solenoid choices hehttp://www.mcmaster.com/#electric-solenoids/=zi4wi

Also-found this-Looks pretty much ready to go-

http://www.meci.com/product_info.php...cts_id/4700003

Mark


On Mar 13, 2:27�pm, castvee8 wrote:
If you need to experiment on a tighter budget-Solenoid choice here
too-

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co....asp?dept=1178

I have ordered from these folks for years-Good stuff a tad cheaper
until you figure out what you need.

Mark



Plenty of solenoid choices hehttp://www.mcmaster.com/#electric-solenoids/=zi4wi- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

--Thanks for all the info and advice gang; will ruminate a bit and
get back to ya.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Richard J Kinch wrote:
You want a "dump" valve. A big passage that opens responsively with little
energy of actuation. ...

I think that a dump valve doesn't close until the reservoir is empty. Bob

--Westinghouse built a fortune on this puppy, IIRC. It's how air
brakes work.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Politics is a sinkhole for
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : people without hobbies...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---