Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG work?
(I need the Aluminium option)

I am a bit worried about the limited adjustments and tuning possible.
I would also love a stick option.

There seems to very little independent reviews and feedback on experience
with the Diversion 165.

A Dynasty 200 is a bit expensive for occasional usage.


Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

"Gerhard" wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG work?
(I need the Aluminium option)


How thick is the aluminum you plan to tig?

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Gerhard" wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG
work?
(I need the Aluminium option)

How thick is the aluminum you plan to tig?

Wes

Max 14 Gauge aluminum sheet and occasionally some 1/8" bar, angle bar and
square tube.
I see that a guy has welded small 1/4" bars with the Diversion and that
pre-heat
can help to do thicker aluminum than recommended by the Diversion specs.

If I really have to do thick aluminum I have two shops nearby that can can
be contracted.

In the beginning the machine will mostly be used for stainless and steel.

I haven't seen people raving about the Diversion but I haven't seen reports
of
problems or furstration with the machine's lack of adjustability (fine
tuning options) either.

It makes me wonder .. is anybody using the Diversion?

Gerhard
CSIR

Gerhard wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Gerhard" wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG
work?
(I need the Aluminium option)
How thick is the aluminum you plan to tig?

Wes

Max 14 Gauge aluminum sheet and occasionally some 1/8" bar, angle bar and
square tube.
I see that a guy has welded small 1/4" bars with the Diversion and that
pre-heat
can help to do thicker aluminum than recommended by the Diversion specs.

If I really have to do thick aluminum I have two shops nearby that can can
be contracted.

In the beginning the machine will mostly be used for stainless and steel.

I haven't seen people raving about the Diversion but I haven't seen reports
of
problems or furstration with the machine's lack of adjustability (fine
tuning options) either.

It makes me wonder .. is anybody using the Diversion?

Gerhard
CSIR

The Miller Rep broght one to our metalwoking club's TIG class last
spring and I got a chance to play with it a little bit. I did not notice
any problem with lack of adjustability. It seemed like a nice little
machine. I was a little surprised by their re-labeling the controls to
be more like a big box store wire feed machine. The were also pushing a
"TIG Welding for Dummies" book with the machine.

Ignoring the condescension, it seemed like a decent machine for it's size.

BobH

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:27:22 +0200, "Gerhard"
wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG work?
(I need the Aluminium option)

I am a bit worried about the limited adjustments and tuning possible.
I would also love a stick option.

There seems to very little independent reviews and feedback on experience
with the Diversion 165.

A Dynasty 200 is a bit expensive for occasional usage.


Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

Looks OK to me for ally up to 3/16". The only parameters I ever
adjust are current, AC vs DC and tungsten type and size. I like
zirconiated tungsten for aluminum and lanthanated tungsten for DC
welding.

Could you make better welds with a Dynasty or other machine with
variable dutycycle squarewave, etc etc? Maybe, maybe not. Is that
necessary to make good welds? Certainly not!

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:27:22 +0200, "Gerhard"
wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG
work?
(I need the Aluminium option)

I am a bit worried about the limited adjustments and tuning possible.
I would also love a stick option.

There seems to very little independent reviews and feedback on experience
with the Diversion 165.

A Dynasty 200 is a bit expensive for occasional usage.


Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

Looks OK to me for ally up to 3/16". The only parameters I ever
adjust are current, AC vs DC and tungsten type and size. I like
zirconiated tungsten for aluminum and lanthanated tungsten for DC
welding.

Could you make better welds with a Dynasty or other machine with
variable dutycycle squarewave, etc etc? Maybe, maybe not. Is that
necessary to make good welds? Certainly not!

Thanks for the feedback guys.
There is a lot of comment on the "TIG Welding for Dummies" title of
the book included with the Diversion 165 package. It seems if Miller
targets the home and hobby TIG market.
In many of the blogs professional and experienced welders seem to be
really concerned that people might TIG weld without proper training.
Lots of people in the home and hobby market started stick and MIG
welding without training, it is a phenomena of our times.

I think that "TIG Welding for Dummies" and the DVD is an attempt
by Miller address the problem and provide some training. Many very
complex welders and machines are sold without proper user manuals.
(For the record I haven't seen the TIG for Dummies book or DVD,
so my comments are based on comments by others on the contents
of the book and DVD).

It seems if the Diversion 165 is an excellent and very forgiving
machine that allows one to make decent TIG welds with minimal
training. It seems that the machine allows the slightly skilled welder,
that welds only a couple of hours every month or three, to re-master
the torch and machine 'settings' without going through a lengthy
practice and testing phase before a new set of weldments can
be laid down with confidence.

The simplified controls allows quick change between various materials
and types of welds without memorising or consulting a detailed
notes of previous settings usually kept by welders. Most of the time
home and hobby welders do a lot of different welds in a single
session, requiring setting changes. Miller seems to have
addressed this reasonably well with the simplified controls.
Limmited duty cycle at high currents might be main limitation
in a production environment.

Some of the critique by professionals on the machine and the
Dummies book seems to be driven be a fear that they might be
caught peeking into the book or the DVD or actually using the
machine for 'dummies' :-)

I found the following URL quite informative.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ad.php?t=14810
Some interesting photos included. Do check all the pages.

Why the machine does not have a stick option is addressed by Miller's John
Swartz at
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...=13331&page=17

I which is could lay my hands on one for a test drive.
I contact lacal agents about price and availabily. I fear
it might be over $2000 after local agents added their cut.

Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:17:58 +0200, "Gerhard"
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:27:22 +0200, "Gerhard"
wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG
work?
(I need the Aluminium option)

I am a bit worried about the limited adjustments and tuning possible.
I would also love a stick option.

There seems to very little independent reviews and feedback on experience
with the Diversion 165.

A Dynasty 200 is a bit expensive for occasional usage.


Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

Looks OK to me for ally up to 3/16". The only parameters I ever
adjust are current, AC vs DC and tungsten type and size. I like
zirconiated tungsten for aluminum and lanthanated tungsten for DC
welding.

Could you make better welds with a Dynasty or other machine with
variable dutycycle squarewave, etc etc? Maybe, maybe not. Is that
necessary to make good welds? Certainly not!

Thanks for the feedback guys.
There is a lot of comment on the "TIG Welding for Dummies" title of
the book included with the Diversion 165 package. It seems if Miller
targets the home and hobby TIG market.
In many of the blogs professional and experienced welders seem to be
really concerned that people might TIG weld without proper training.
Lots of people in the home and hobby market started stick and MIG
welding without training, it is a phenomena of our times.

I think that "TIG Welding for Dummies" and the DVD is an attempt
by Miller address the problem and provide some training. Many very
complex welders and machines are sold without proper user manuals.
(For the record I haven't seen the TIG for Dummies book or DVD,
so my comments are based on comments by others on the contents
of the book and DVD).

It seems if the Diversion 165 is an excellent and very forgiving
machine that allows one to make decent TIG welds with minimal
training. It seems that the machine allows the slightly skilled welder,
that welds only a couple of hours every month or three, to re-master
the torch and machine 'settings' without going through a lengthy
practice and testing phase before a new set of weldments can
be laid down with confidence.

The simplified controls allows quick change between various materials
and types of welds without memorising or consulting a detailed
notes of previous settings usually kept by welders. Most of the time
home and hobby welders do a lot of different welds in a single
session, requiring setting changes. Miller seems to have
addressed this reasonably well with the simplified controls.
Limmited duty cycle at high currents might be main limitation
in a production environment.

Some of the critique by professionals on the machine and the
Dummies book seems to be driven be a fear that they might be
caught peeking into the book or the DVD or actually using the
machine for 'dummies' :-)

I found the following URL quite informative.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ad.php?t=14810
Some interesting photos included. Do check all the pages.

Why the machine does not have a stick option is addressed by Miller's John
Swartz at
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...=13331&page=17

I which is could lay my hands on one for a test drive.
I contact lacal agents about price and availabily. I fear
it might be over $2000 after local agents added their cut.

Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

Re comments on blogs about TIG for Dummies, etc: some weldors exhibit
a bit of snobbery about their craft and skill. You will not become a
journeyman weldor with a book and a bit of practice -- but you
certainly can get to where you can do useful work. I have no formal
training at all in welding. I'm sure I'm not as skilled as guys like
Ernie, Steve and others who have done it profesionally, but I'm quite
able to do the things I want to do and they turn out OK.

This home and hobby weldor seldom does a lot of different welds in a
single session. That said, the only "setting" changes I routinely
make on my TIG machine are between AC and DC. I do change tungstens
to suit the job, but the vast majority of what I do is within
footpedal control on "mid range" which is 40 to 190 amps or something
like that.

You should be able to get it for less than MSRP, not more. We're in a
recession, fella!

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:17:58 +0200, "Gerhard"
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:27:22 +0200, "Gerhard"
wrote:

Is it worth putting money down on a Miller Diversion 165 for hobby TIG
work?
(I need the Aluminium option)

I am a bit worried about the limited adjustments and tuning possible.
I would also love a stick option.

There seems to very little independent reviews and feedback on
experience
with the Diversion 165.

A Dynasty 200 is a bit expensive for occasional usage.


Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

Looks OK to me for ally up to 3/16". The only parameters I ever
adjust are current, AC vs DC and tungsten type and size. I like
zirconiated tungsten for aluminum and lanthanated tungsten for DC
welding.

Could you make better welds with a Dynasty or other machine with
variable dutycycle squarewave, etc etc? Maybe, maybe not. Is that
necessary to make good welds? Certainly not!

Thanks for the feedback guys.
There is a lot of comment on the "TIG Welding for Dummies" title of
the book included with the Diversion 165 package. It seems if Miller
targets the home and hobby TIG market.
In many of the blogs professional and experienced welders seem to be
really concerned that people might TIG weld without proper training.
Lots of people in the home and hobby market started stick and MIG
welding without training, it is a phenomena of our times.

I think that "TIG Welding for Dummies" and the DVD is an attempt
by Miller address the problem and provide some training. Many very
complex welders and machines are sold without proper user manuals.
(For the record I haven't seen the TIG for Dummies book or DVD,
so my comments are based on comments by others on the contents
of the book and DVD).

It seems if the Diversion 165 is an excellent and very forgiving
machine that allows one to make decent TIG welds with minimal
training. It seems that the machine allows the slightly skilled welder,
that welds only a couple of hours every month or three, to re-master
the torch and machine 'settings' without going through a lengthy
practice and testing phase before a new set of weldments can
be laid down with confidence.

The simplified controls allows quick change between various materials
and types of welds without memorising or consulting a detailed
notes of previous settings usually kept by welders. Most of the time
home and hobby welders do a lot of different welds in a single
session, requiring setting changes. Miller seems to have
addressed this reasonably well with the simplified controls.
Limmited duty cycle at high currents might be main limitation
in a production environment.

Some of the critique by professionals on the machine and the
Dummies book seems to be driven be a fear that they might be
caught peeking into the book or the DVD or actually using the
machine for 'dummies' :-)

I found the following URL quite informative.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ad.php?t=14810
Some interesting photos included. Do check all the pages.

Why the machine does not have a stick option is addressed by Miller's John
Swartz at
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...=13331&page=17

I which is could lay my hands on one for a test drive.
I contact lacal agents about price and availabily. I fear
it might be over $2000 after local agents added their cut.

Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR

Re comments on blogs about TIG for Dummies, etc: some weldors exhibit
a bit of snobbery about their craft and skill. You will not become a
journeyman weldor with a book and a bit of practice -- but you
certainly can get to where you can do useful work. I have no formal
training at all in welding. I'm sure I'm not as skilled as guys like
Ernie, Steve and others who have done it profesionally, but I'm quite
able to do the things I want to do and they turn out OK.

This home and hobby weldor seldom does a lot of different welds in a
single session. That said, the only "setting" changes I routinely
make on my TIG machine are between AC and DC. I do change tungstens
to suit the job, but the vast majority of what I do is within
footpedal control on "mid range" which is 40 to 190 amps or something
like that.

You should be able to get it for less than MSRP, not more. We're in a
recession, fella!
= = = =

This morning I phoned the South African Miller Representative, Distributor
and
finally the local agent. No Diversion 165s available, only Dynasty 200 and
Syncrowave 250 and 350. I requested a budgetary telephonic quote
for a Dynasty 200. The price indicated was 'about $2900' (if I apply the
'standard' 1:10 currency conversion). When I requested the 200 model, the
reply was 'it is the standard model'. I assumed it is for the entry model,
200 DS.
My estimate is that the Diversion, if available, will probably price just
below $1500 or hopefully $1400.
There is some import tax and VAT that has to be taken into account.

There is however hope. In December the local gas and welding supplier
opened a brand new office/shop about a mile and a half from my house.
Last year they acquired the local agency for Lyncoln. So I'l probably have
to
wait for Lyncoln's competitive offer, hopefully as good as Miller's.
The other option is to buy a MatWeld brand (Chinese/Taiwan?) TIG
with all the controls, double the size 3X the weight at about $1400
from a hardware store. I will have to test-drive it befor I would buy.

This local gas/welding shop owner plans to support hobbyist in future
and it might be possible to do short courses on Saturdays as well as
test drive some of the advance machines. He also hinted that
hiring might be an option. The shop also does welder repairs.
Has 5 technicians to fix the stuff. I saw between 50 and 100
neatly stacked awaiting repair and/or parts. There is even a
'clean room' for fixing PC boards.

I have much respect for real weldors. Watching some of the guys
at a nearby fabricator, is a real treat. Until the 'correct' machine
becomes available I will probably opt for contracting this fabricator
to do special jobs. They do a lot of stainless and has an advance
CNC laser cutter. He only requires a .dxf file to give a quote and
cut the stuff. Prices are very reasonable even on small batches.
It is however always nice to be creative, experiment and do your
own thing.

Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR