Removing galled alumunm
 

I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would
risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum
off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

Removing galled alumunm
 

RoyJ wrote:

I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would
risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum
off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

The last time I did this repair, I used my Swiss army knife carefully.



Wes

Removing galled alumunm
 

Heavy emphasis on 'carefully'?? I'm looking for the magic bullet!!

Actually, I was really pleased that the engine looks rebuildable.

Wes wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would
risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum
off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

The last time I did this repair, I used my Swiss army knife carefully.



Wes

Removing galled alumunm
 

RoyJ wrote:
... Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

Lye will do it. Much easier/faster if you can immerse it. Drop-by-drop
would be tedious. The journal will not be affected, other than a very
good degreasing.

Bob

Removing galled alumunm
 

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:42:32 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

RoyJ wrote:
... Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

Lye will do it. Much easier/faster if you can immerse it. Drop-by-drop
would be tedious. The journal will not be affected, other than a very
good degreasing.

Bob
I use the cling type oven cleaner.
Works good. (but make sure you take the crank out of the aluminum
crankcase first to be safe)

Removing galled alumunm
 

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod. (My
bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of galled
aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would risk
scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum off
without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong alkaline like
lye???

A brass wire wheel, NOT brass plated wire. Check it with a magnet.

Removing galled alumunm
 

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod. (My
bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of galled
aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would risk
scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum off
without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong alkaline like
lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature (a
safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight 45% lye
solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually slightly
viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job. Dilute 50% with
water if you're edgy about using a concentrated solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum parts
with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40% solution is 1 kg of
lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to 1-1/2 ratio is easy to
remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half. Don't use
it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress

Removing galled alumunm
 

RoyJ wrote:

Heavy emphasis on 'carefully'?? I'm looking for the magic bullet!!

Actually, I was really pleased that the engine looks rebuildable.


If there isn't a hole in the case, you got a good chance. I've fixed a few law mowers
when I was a kid.

That lye thing is looking good from the responses. Wash crank then clean and oil after
the lye bath.

Just out of curiosity, what is the engine mounted in?

Wes

Removing galled alumunm
 

This is the 12 hp Kohler K301 that is all cast iron. The output shaft
bearing is a standard ball bearing with a 1.574" ID and around 4" OD.
I've never seen such a massive bearing on a small engine. The flywheel
end is the same 7/8" that most similar engines use for the drive end. It
took two of us using a chain and sling to move if from the garage to the
shop, feels like it weighs around 100 pounds.

Everything looks good inside except for a chip taken out of the lower
cylinder, perhaps 3/4" square.

My local supplier has a piston, rings, and rod package for about $70.
I'll check for taper and all that, good chance I'll bore it oversize.
It's about due after all those years!

The engine was in a '64 Cub Cadet tractor that I've had since the '70's.
About every 10 to 15 years I hone the bore and put new rings in. That
little chore was scheduled for this fall, had one more 1/2 hour session
before layup. Blew on startup.

The cylinder fins were completely caked in dust, no air flow what so
ever. Suspect is was running way hot, burned the oil, finally grabbed
the rod bearing .

Wes wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

Heavy emphasis on 'carefully'?? I'm looking for the magic bullet!!

Actually, I was really pleased that the engine looks rebuildable.


If there isn't a hole in the case, you got a good chance. I've fixed a few law mowers
when I was a kid.

That lye thing is looking good from the responses. Wash crank then clean and oil after
the lye bath.

Just out of curiosity, what is the engine mounted in?

Wes

Removing galled alumunm
 

I have a couple of hot tanks that I use for stripping paint with strong
alkaline. The small one is for heat registers, would fit the crank
perfectly. I normally run these at 160 degrees, I suppose that would be
a bit of overkill.

Paul wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would risk
scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum off
without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong alkaline like
lye???
Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature (a
safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight 45%
lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually
slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job. Dilute
50% with water if you're edgy about using a concentrated solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum parts
with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40% solution is 1 kg
of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to 1-1/2 ratio is easy to
remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half. Don't
use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

Removing galled alumunm
 

"RoyJ" wrote in message
...
I have a couple of hot tanks that I use for stripping paint with strong
alkaline. The small one is for heat registers, would fit the crank
perfectly. I normally run these at 160 degrees, I suppose that would be a
bit of overkill.


It should speed things up. It sounds like you're all set.

--
Ed Huntress

Removing galled alumunm
 

RoyJ wrote:

My local supplier has a piston, rings, and rod package for about $70.
I'll check for taper and all that, good chance I'll bore it oversize.
It's about due after all those years!


How do you plan to bore it? Lathe, mill or send it out?

Wes

Removing galled alumunm
 

Bridgeport with the vertical extension block. Standard boring head.
Bottom of the block is flat, 12" high, 6" cylinder length. Not enough
travel on the spindle, would need to use the knee. Mount the block on a
tooling plate, clamp that down. Use a cylinder hone to get the surface
finish I need.

I checked the bore this afternoon, about .001" taper, about .001"
oversize. Looks like a stock piston would just go in.

Wes wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

My local supplier has a piston, rings, and rod package for about $70.
I'll check for taper and all that, good chance I'll bore it oversize.
It's about due after all those years!


How do you plan to bore it? Lathe, mill or send it out?

Wes

Removing galled alumunm
 

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:40:45 -0600, RoyJ
wrote:

This is the 12 hp Kohler K301 that is all cast iron. The output shaft
bearing is a standard ball bearing with a 1.574" ID and around 4" OD.
I've never seen such a massive bearing on a small engine. The flywheel
end is the same 7/8" that most similar engines use for the drive end. It
took two of us using a chain and sling to move if from the garage to the
shop, feels like it weighs around 100 pounds.

Everything looks good inside except for a chip taken out of the lower
cylinder, perhaps 3/4" square.

My local supplier has a piston, rings, and rod package for about $70.
I'll check for taper and all that, good chance I'll bore it oversize.
It's about due after all those years!

The engine was in a '64 Cub Cadet tractor that I've had since the '70's.
About every 10 to 15 years I hone the bore and put new rings in. That
little chore was scheduled for this fall, had one more 1/2 hour session
before layup. Blew on startup.

The cylinder fins were completely caked in dust, no air flow what so
ever. Suspect is was running way hot, burned the oil, finally grabbed
the rod bearing .


I hope your luck is better than mine.

I've tried this more than once with old Kohlers and not had much
luck.

First one I did it right. I had it bored and the crank ground. I
replaced every wear part (with Kohler brand not after market). Full
rebuild. I ran it one month when it threw the counter balance gear
through the side of the block. Moral of this lesson check the wear on
the timing gear. Unfortunately it's made on the crankshaft and can't
be replaced without a full crank (be sure your sitting when they qoute
you the price). If you have some wear on the gear and have the counter
balance gears my recommendation is to leave them out. It vibrates more
but if the gear happens to get on top of the tooth and snaps the shaft
like mine then it's not pretty.

I tried at least three other times after getting several of the same
engines in a trade. None lasted more than a year or two (though I
admit to cutting more corners on the later ones) . The last had the
chip you talk about out of it and it ran about 1 1/2 years before the
oil burning got bad enough I had to give it up.

I finally broke down and put a new 16HP Kohler on my old John Deere
mower. It's been running great for 10 years now (though I've noticed
it's been a little harder to start lately). That was another adventure
since John Deere didn't use a standard Kohler engine but rather had a
special oil pan to drop the engine lower over the front axle and had a
smaller out put shaft than normal. The special engine was $1600 when
the standard 16HP I replaced it with as $700.

Just a heads up of potential problems.

Removing galled alumunm
 

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 01:07:55 -0500, "Paul"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would risk
scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum off
without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong alkaline like
lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature (a
safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight 45%
lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually
slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job. Dilute
50% with water if you're edgy about using a concentrated solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum parts
with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40% solution is 1 kg
of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to 1-1/2 ratio is easy to
remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half. Don't
use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

Not in my experience.. If it does it's awfiull slow

Removing galled alumunm
 

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would
risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum
off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature (a
safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight 45%
lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually
slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job. Dilute
50% with water if you're edgy about using a concentrated solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum parts
with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40% solution is 1
kg of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to 1-1/2 ratio is easy
to remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half. Don't
use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

It contains some mild organic acids. They probably will have no harmful
effect over a short time, but I wonder how long you can leave a steel
crankshaft in them. Any idea?

--
Ed Huntress


Ed,
I've soaked HSS taps in CLR for upto a week to remove aluminum stuck in the
teeth. The surface of the steel turns black but the cutting edges are still
sharp.
Paul

Removing galled alumunm
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would
risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum
off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with
solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature
(a safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight
45% lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually
slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job.
Dilute 50% with water if you're edgy about using a concentrated
solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum
parts with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40% solution
is 1 kg of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to 1-1/2 ratio
is easy to remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half. Don't
use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

It contains some mild organic acids. They probably will have no harmful
effect over a short time, but I wonder how long you can leave a steel
crankshaft in them. Any idea?

--
Ed Huntress


Ed,
I've soaked HSS taps in CLR for upto a week to remove aluminum stuck in
the teeth. The surface of the steel turns black but the cutting edges are
still sharp.
Paul

Hmm. That black oxide may be a problem on a crankshaft. At the very least it
would have to be removed.

Have you ever tried using a lye solution? It eats aluminum pretty fast and
it doesn't hurt the steel.

Warm, 40% lye solution will actually bubble hydrogen gas off fairly
violently as it eats the aluminum. But you don't need a 40% solution to do
the job on cutting tools. A couple of tablespoons of lye in a cup of
room-temp water will do it.

--
Ed Huntress

Removing galled alumunm
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:10:21 -0500, "Paul"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con rod.
(My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup of
galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that would
risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the aluminum
off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a strong
alkaline like lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature (a
safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight 45%
lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually
slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job. Dilute
50% with water if you're edgy about using a concentrated solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum parts
with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40% solution is 1
kg of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to 1-1/2 ratio is easy
to remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half. Don't
use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

It contains some mild organic acids. They probably will have no harmful
effect over a short time, but I wonder how long you can leave a steel
crankshaft in them. Any idea?

--
Ed Huntress


Ed,
I've soaked HSS taps in CLR for upto a week to remove aluminum stuck in the
teeth. The surface of the steel turns black but the cutting edges are still
sharp.
Paul

And lye would do the same in about 5 minutes.
It won'e embrittle the taps either.

Removing galled alumunm
 

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con
rod. (My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent buildup
of galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but that
would risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get the
aluminum off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of a
strong alkaline like lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with
solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature
(a safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a straight
45% lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that it's actually
slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it does the job.
Dilute 50% with water if you're edgy about using a concentrated
solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum
parts with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40%
solution is 1 kg of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to
1-1/2 ratio is easy to remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half.
Don't use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

It contains some mild organic acids. They probably will have no harmful
effect over a short time, but I wonder how long you can leave a steel
crankshaft in them. Any idea?

--
Ed Huntress


Ed,
I've soaked HSS taps in CLR for upto a week to remove aluminum stuck in
the teeth. The surface of the steel turns black but the cutting edges are
still sharp.
Paul

Hmm. That black oxide may be a problem on a crankshaft. At the very least
it would have to be removed.

Have you ever tried using a lye solution? It eats aluminum pretty fast and
it doesn't hurt the steel.

Warm, 40% lye solution will actually bubble hydrogen gas off fairly
violently as it eats the aluminum. But you don't need a 40% solution to do
the job on cutting tools. A couple of tablespoons of lye in a cup of
room-temp water will do it.

--
Ed Huntress

I have not tried using lye. When I first did some online research about
removing aluminum a few years ago I found recommendations for both lye and
CLR. I already had some CLR so I gave it a shot and it worked, so that's
what I've been using. Also, the CLR appears to less hazardous, at least
according to the MSDS.
The black oxide may be problem on a crank shaft, but taps I use the CLR on
(normally 3/8 & 1/2 NPT 8" lg. pulley taps) actually get aluminum stuck in
the teeth less often after they have been in the CLR.
Paul

Removing galled alumunm
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
I ran my trusty Kohler 301 12 hp a bit low on oil, trashed the con
rod. (My bad)It looks like the crank is ok but it has a decent
buildup of galled aluminum on the one side. I could scrape it off but
that would risk scratching the journal. Any bright ideas how to get
the aluminum off without touching the journal? Maybe a few drops of
a strong alkaline like lye???

Lye is good, but not a few drops. You'll need to cover it with
solution.

If your patience is slim and if you want to do it at room temperature
(a safe idea), you can use some Pequa drain cleaner. That's a
straight 45% lye solution in water, and it's so concentrated that
it's actually slightly viscous. 45% is dangerous to handle but it
does the job. Dilute 50% with water if you're edgy about using a
concentrated solution.

I've used 20% with success -- in fact, I've wrecked a few aluminum
parts with it, trying to frost them. d8-) For reference, a 40%
solution is 1 kg of lye to 1.5 liters (1.5 kg) of water. That 1 to
1-1/2 ratio is easy to remember.

My lye tank for small parts is a plastic Tide bottle cut in half.
Don't use it with hot lye.

--
Ed Huntress


CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) works too.
Paul

It contains some mild organic acids. They probably will have no harmful
effect over a short time, but I wonder how long you can leave a steel
crankshaft in them. Any idea?

--
Ed Huntress


Ed,
I've soaked HSS taps in CLR for upto a week to remove aluminum stuck in
the teeth. The surface of the steel turns black but the cutting edges
are still sharp.
Paul

Hmm. That black oxide may be a problem on a crankshaft. At the very least
it would have to be removed.

Have you ever tried using a lye solution? It eats aluminum pretty fast
and it doesn't hurt the steel.

Warm, 40% lye solution will actually bubble hydrogen gas off fairly
violently as it eats the aluminum. But you don't need a 40% solution to
do the job on cutting tools. A couple of tablespoons of lye in a cup of
room-temp water will do it.

--
Ed Huntress

I have not tried using lye. When I first did some online research about
removing aluminum a few years ago I found recommendations for both lye and
CLR. I already had some CLR so I gave it a shot and it worked, so that's
what I've been using. Also, the CLR appears to less hazardous, at least
according to the MSDS.
The black oxide may be problem on a crank shaft, but taps I use the CLR on
(normally 3/8 & 1/2 NPT 8" lg. pulley taps) actually get aluminum stuck in
the teeth less often after they have been in the CLR.
Paul

Ok, I could see that. The black form of oxide sometimes has a pretty weak
grip on steel (the electrical de-rusting method produces some black smut
like that, for example), so maybe it's forming a barrier.

Interesting. Since I have 85-year-old plumbing in my house, I'm very
comfortable working with lye. g It can be a little tricky in higher
concentrations. But the small quantities and low concentrations needed for
frosting aluminum, or for dissolving it in moderate quantitites, aren't much
of a problem. You can flush it down the drain. I do it weekly, as a matter
of fact.

--
Ed Huntress