light Rust Removal
 

I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust on them. How
is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

light Rust Removal
 

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust
on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust
without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

If you're lucky and it's really light, extra-fine steel wool and some light
oil. Whatever you do, stay away from rust-removing chemicals. Real bluing is
iron oxide, and the chemicals will strip it right off along with the rust.

That includes Hoppe's Bench Rest 9 Copper Solvent. Don't ask me how I know;
it's a sad story. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust
on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust
without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

If you're lucky and it's really light, extra-fine steel wool and some light
oil. Whatever you do, stay away from rust-removing chemicals. Real bluing is
iron oxide, and the chemicals will strip it right off along with the rust.

That includes Hoppe's Bench Rest 9 Copper Solvent. Don't ask me how I know;
it's a sad story. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress




Thanks, Ed. Sorry to hear you may have learned the hard way. :-( Al

light Rust Removal
 

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of
rust on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of
rust without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

If you're lucky and it's really light, extra-fine steel wool and some
light oil. Whatever you do, stay away from rust-removing chemicals. Real
bluing is iron oxide, and the chemicals will strip it right off along
with the rust.

That includes Hoppe's Bench Rest 9 Copper Solvent. Don't ask me how I
know; it's a sad story. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Thanks, Ed. Sorry to hear you may have learned the hard way. :-( Al

I'm the proud owner of a two-tone classic, a Hi-Standard Supermatic, with a
light-blue muzzle brake. g

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:39:45 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Al Patrick" wrote in message
rnetofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust
on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust
without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

If you're lucky and it's really light, extra-fine steel wool and some light
oil. Whatever you do, stay away from rust-removing chemicals. Real bluing is
iron oxide, and the chemicals will strip it right off along with the rust.

That includes Hoppe's Bench Rest 9 Copper Solvent. Don't ask me how I know;
it's a sad story. d8-)

I wouldn't even start with the steel wool. I'd first try something
like cloth from an old pair of levis and some 3 &1 oil. Scrub the
rusty areas with the oil wet cloth, wipe clean and re-asses the
problem. You may have removed the rust if it was light enough, but in
any event the area will now be clean enough to make a better decision.
If you use steel wool, re-read the above, and use the finest available
and don't be aggressive with it.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

light Rust Removal
 

Ed Huntress wrote:


I'm the proud owner of a two-tone classic, a Hi-Standard Supermatic, with a
light-blue muzzle brake. g

Not familiar with the Hi-Standard Supermatic but looked it up on the web and at least one
of them is a pretty wicked looking machine. Check it out at
http://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/200...ation-rim.html

Here's the same thing from TinyURL.com http://tinyurl.com/6gvekc

Al

light Rust Removal
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:39:45 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust
on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust
without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al
If you're lucky and it's really light, extra-fine steel wool and some light
oil. Whatever you do, stay away from rust-removing chemicals. Real bluing is
iron oxide, and the chemicals will strip it right off along with the rust.

That includes Hoppe's Bench Rest 9 Copper Solvent. Don't ask me how I know;
it's a sad story. d8-)

I wouldn't even start with the steel wool. I'd first try something
like cloth from an old pair of levis and some 3 &1 oil. Scrub the
rusty areas with the oil wet cloth, wipe clean and re-asses the
problem. You may have removed the rust if it was light enough, but in
any event the area will now be clean enough to make a better decision.
If you use steel wool, re-read the above, and use the finest available
and don't be aggressive with it.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Thanks Bruce. I picked up some 0000 steel wool (extra fine) today and also a can of 3n1
oil. I already had oil but one can't have too much 3 in 1 so got another can. I do like
your idea of starting out even lighter than the steel wool and then progressing as needed.

Al

light Rust Removal
 

On Nov 5, 7:18*am, Al Patrick wrote:
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust on them. *How
is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

As ED says rust and bluing are almost the same thing. Just ferric
oxide and ferrous oxide. So I would try some experiments on some
rusty scrap metal and see if any of the cold bluing compounds will
convert the one oxide to the other oxide. I think that hot bluing
will do that, but I would certainly try it on something other than a
gun first.


Dan

light Rust Removal
 

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust
on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust
without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

DON'T USE STEEL WOOL, except as a last resort. First, slap your
friend...twice! Second, unload the guns. Try a cloth with a bit of gun
oil, Kroil, WD-40, PB-50 or blaster.

light Rust Removal
 

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
ge...
Ed Huntress wrote:


I'm the proud owner of a two-tone classic, a Hi-Standard Supermatic, with
a light-blue muzzle brake. g

Not familiar with the Hi-Standard Supermatic but looked it up on the web
and at least one of them is a pretty wicked looking machine. Check it out
at
http://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/200...ation-rim.html

Here's the same thing from TinyURL.com http://tinyurl.com/6gvekc

Al

Uh, mine doesn't look like that. See the pin just above and in front of the
trigger guard, with the slanted end? Push that and the barrel pops off. Then
you can stick any barrel on there that you want in about one second. The
barrel in that photo is not the olympic model. g

The Supermatic is a high-class target pistol from the late-'50s/early '60s
era, often used in national and international competition. Mine is well-used
but still in fine condition.

It looks more like this, only with a different muzzle brake (mine is all on
top, and larger) and with a dovetail under the barrel for mounting barrel
weights. I have a set of three of those, in different weights:

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/lis...mnum=905193740

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

Buerste wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
I have a friend with a couple of guns that have gotten a light coat of rust
on them. How is the best way to remove that very light coat of rust
without removing the bluing as well?

Thanks,

Al

DON'T USE STEEL WOOL, except as a last resort. First, slap your
friend...twice! Second, unload the guns. Try a cloth with a bit of gun
oil, Kroil, WD-40, PB-50 or blaster.



Thanks to all who replied. I'll let you know how it turns out. I looked on Brownell's
and they do have the bronze wool in three different coarsenesses, should it be needed.

Very familiar with several of the oils mentioned above.

light Rust Removal
 

Ed Huntress wrote:

Uh, mine doesn't look like that. See the pin just above and in front of the
trigger guard, with the slanted end? Push that and the barrel pops off. Then
you can stick any barrel on there that you want in about one second. The
barrel in that photo is not the olympic model. g

The Supermatic is a high-class target pistol from the late-'50s/early '60s
era, often used in national and international competition. Mine is well-used
but still in fine condition.

It looks more like this, only with a different muzzle brake (mine is all on
top, and larger) and with a dovetail under the barrel for mounting barrel
weights. I have a set of three of those, in different weights:

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/lis...mnum=905193740


I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun, but it surely
doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles are probably better than the
one shown in the url below. It has less scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955 through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".

light Rust Removal
 

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Uh, mine doesn't look like that. See the pin just above and in front of
the trigger guard, with the slanted end? Push that and the barrel pops
off. Then you can stick any barrel on there that you want in about one
second. The barrel in that photo is not the olympic model. g

The Supermatic is a high-class target pistol from the late-'50s/early
'60s era, often used in national and international competition. Mine is
well-used but still in fine condition.

It looks more like this, only with a different muzzle brake (mine is all
on top, and larger) and with a dovetail under the barrel for mounting
barrel weights. I have a set of three of those, in different weights:

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/lis...mnum=905193740


I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun,
but it surely doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles
are probably better than the one shown in the url below. It has less
scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955
through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".

Yes, that's similar. The action probably is the same.

Hi-Standard made a number of guns for Sears. My 20-ga. J.C. Higgens
(actually, I think it was called a Ted Williams model) pump shotgun was a
Hi-Standard Flite King Trophy.

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 22:14:48 -0500, the infamous "Al Patrick"
scrawled the following:
Ed Huntress wrote:


I'm the proud owner of a two-tone classic, a Hi-Standard Supermatic, with
a light-blue muzzle brake. g

Not familiar with the Hi-Standard Supermatic but looked it up on the web
and at least one of them is a pretty wicked looking machine. Check it out
at
http://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/200...ation-rim.html

Man, that barrel is so thin that you can see the _rifling_ from the
_outside_! ;^)

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

light Rust Removal
 

I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

light Rust Removal
 

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

Watch out for that! The original Scotch-Brite, which is usually the green
pads, contains silicon carbide grit. With a typical thin, hot-blue
commercial job, you'll scratch right through it.

The suggestions to try cloth first, and then 0000 steel wool (lightly!) as a
last resort, will do better. For God's sake, don't use Scotch-Brite.

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

On 2008-11-06, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

Watch out for that! The original Scotch-Brite, which is usually the green
pads, contains silicon carbide grit. With a typical thin, hot-blue
commercial job, you'll scratch right through it.

The suggestions to try cloth first, and then 0000 steel wool (lightly!) as a
last resort, will do better. For God's sake, don't use Scotch-Brite.

I do not think that those dishwashing pads that I mentioned, contain
silicon carbide.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

light Rust Removal
 

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-06, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

Watch out for that! The original Scotch-Brite, which is usually the green
pads, contains silicon carbide grit. With a typical thin, hot-blue
commercial job, you'll scratch right through it.

The suggestions to try cloth first, and then 0000 steel wool (lightly!)
as a
last resort, will do better. For God's sake, don't use Scotch-Brite.

I do not think that those dishwashing pads that I mentioned, contain
silicon carbide.

Scotch-Brite comes in many varieties, some with abrasive and some not. You
can buy either in the supermarket. I have both. I use the abrasive ones for
cleaning the insides of stainless steel pots and pans. They contain silicon
carbide, which you will discover in a real hurry if you use them on your
silver. g

All of the originals contained silicon carbide, in different grits, and then
they started making the non-abraisve ones later. But the popular ones,
usually colored green, will scratch the hell out of steel.

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-06, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

Watch out for that! The original Scotch-Brite, which is usually the green
pads, contains silicon carbide grit. With a typical thin, hot-blue
commercial job, you'll scratch right through it.

The suggestions to try cloth first, and then 0000 steel wool (lightly!)
as a
last resort, will do better. For God's sake, don't use Scotch-Brite.

I do not think that those dishwashing pads that I mentioned, contain
silicon carbide.

Scotch-Brite comes in many varieties, some with abrasive and some not. You
can buy either in the supermarket. I have both. I use the abrasive ones for
cleaning the insides of stainless steel pots and pans. They contain silicon
carbide, which you will discover in a real hurry if you use them on your
silver. g

All of the originals contained silicon carbide, in different grits, and then
they started making the non-abraisve ones later. But the popular ones,
usually colored green, will scratch the hell out of steel.

3M anyway color codes their pads, and white means no grit.

I use thick white pads bought in the paint dept of an auto parts store
for diswashing. Works very well, no scratches.

Joe Gwinn

light Rust Removal
 

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-06, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in
message
...
I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

Watch out for that! The original Scotch-Brite, which is usually the
green
pads, contains silicon carbide grit. With a typical thin, hot-blue
commercial job, you'll scratch right through it.

The suggestions to try cloth first, and then 0000 steel wool
(lightly!)
as a
last resort, will do better. For God's sake, don't use Scotch-Brite.

I do not think that those dishwashing pads that I mentioned, contain
silicon carbide.

Scotch-Brite comes in many varieties, some with abrasive and some not.
You
can buy either in the supermarket. I have both. I use the abrasive ones
for
cleaning the insides of stainless steel pots and pans. They contain
silicon
carbide, which you will discover in a real hurry if you use them on your
silver. g

All of the originals contained silicon carbide, in different grits, and
then
they started making the non-abraisve ones later. But the popular ones,
usually colored green, will scratch the hell out of steel.

3M anyway color codes their pads, and white means no grit.

I use thick white pads bought in the paint dept of an auto parts store
for diswashing. Works very well, no scratches.

Yeah, I like those too. They disappeared from supermarket shelves around
here around five years ago. Now all they have is the Scotch-Brite bonded to
synthetic sponges, which I don't like. Thanks for the tip on where to find
the plain ones.

BTW, some of the off brands' no-grit pads are green, but 3M's green pads
have grit. If you're looking for the no-scratch type, beware.

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-06, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus32310" wrote in
message
...
I find that what works for light rust, is to wet the area with some
oil and apply dishwashing pads with scotch-brite like surface.

Watch out for that! The original Scotch-Brite, which is usually the
green
pads, contains silicon carbide grit. With a typical thin, hot-blue
commercial job, you'll scratch right through it.

The suggestions to try cloth first, and then 0000 steel wool
(lightly!)
as a
last resort, will do better. For God's sake, don't use Scotch-Brite.

I do not think that those dishwashing pads that I mentioned, contain
silicon carbide.

Scotch-Brite comes in many varieties, some with abrasive and some not.
You
can buy either in the supermarket. I have both. I use the abrasive ones
for
cleaning the insides of stainless steel pots and pans. They contain
silicon
carbide, which you will discover in a real hurry if you use them on your
silver. g

All of the originals contained silicon carbide, in different grits, and
then
they started making the non-abraisve ones later. But the popular ones,
usually colored green, will scratch the hell out of steel.

3M anyway color codes their pads, and white means no grit.

I use thick white pads bought in the paint dept of an auto parts store
for diswashing. Works very well, no scratches.

Yeah, I like those too. They disappeared from supermarket shelves around
here around five years ago. Now all they have is the Scotch-Brite bonded to
synthetic sponges, which I don't like. Thanks for the tip on where to find
the plain ones.

I don't like those sponge pads either.

I buy the big pads and cut them up with scissors.


BTW, some of the off brands' no-grit pads are green, but 3M's green pads
have grit. If you're looking for the no-scratch type, beware.

Yep.


Joe Gwinn

light Rust Removal
 

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun,
but it surely doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles
are probably better than the one shown in the url below. It has less
scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955
through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".

Yes, that's similar. The action probably is the same.

Hi-Standard made a number of guns for Sears. My 20-ga. J.C. Higgens
(actually, I think it was called a Ted Williams model) pump shotgun was a
Hi-Standard Flite King Trophy.

Does anyone above 50+ find it disturbing that we once could buy firearms via mail order
and blood wasn't flooding the streets? Now we can't and blood is flowing.

Ah for a return to the simpler times. Outside of getting our foot off of the neck of our
black citizens, we have not marched forward as a society, I say we have marched
retrograde.

Wes

light Rust Removal
 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:59:52 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun,
but it surely doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles
are probably better than the one shown in the url below. It has less
scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955
through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".

Yes, that's similar. The action probably is the same.

Hi-Standard made a number of guns for Sears. My 20-ga. J.C. Higgens
(actually, I think it was called a Ted Williams model) pump shotgun was a
Hi-Standard Flite King Trophy.

Does anyone above 50+ find it disturbing that we once could buy firearms via mail order
and blood wasn't flooding the streets? Now we can't and blood is flowing.

Ah for a return to the simpler times. Outside of getting our foot off of the neck of our
black citizens, we have not marched forward as a society, I say we have marched
retrograde.

Wes


And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

light Rust Removal
 

On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

light Rust Removal
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:59:52 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Does anyone above 50+ find it disturbing that we once could buy firearms via mail order
and blood wasn't flooding the streets? Now we can't and blood is flowing.

Ah for a return to the simpler times. Outside of getting our foot off of the neck of our
black citizens, we have not marched forward as a society, I say we have marched
retrograde.

Wes


And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

I recall when you could order directly from the want ads in Popular Science or Popular
Mechanics a submachine gun that had the barrel welded closed. On the same page you could
order a new barrel from a different ad.

We not only used to hang murderers, but rapists, kidnappers, horse thieves, and some say
even adulterers.

Now, a hangman's noose is alleged to be a symbol of racism. Perhaps that's because of the
percentage of the above crimes committed by blacks.

About a year ago two crosses were burned in Durham, NC. One paper mentioned -- one time
-- that a note was found near one of them that said something to the effect of "GANGS
BEWARE"! I never saw that mentioned again. However, plenty was said about the cross
burnings being racist and everybody and his brother assured the NAACP that they would do
all they could to catch whoever did it. I'm not sure if they ever caught them or not.
The "authorities" couldn't or wouldn't stop the gangs from running rampant in Durham, but
they could surely condemn those who might have been able to do so! :-( We don't want to
*scare* the little gangsters! The killings go on in Durham, Raleigh, and in between!
Every few days there are one or two more bodies found. But you'd better not spray paint
"racist" remarks in an "expression tunnel"! Still haven't heard what they plan to do with
the four who admitted involvement in that event. Probably found that one or two were sons
of a doctor or lawyer and we have to handle this with "kid gloves." :-)

light Rust Removal
 

Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.


Check for the 1950's.

light Rust Removal
 

On 2008-11-15, Al Patrick wrote:
Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.


Check for the 1950's.

Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

light Rust Removal
 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:10:07 -0600, Ignoramus29895
wrote:

On 2008-11-15, Al Patrick wrote:
Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.


Check for the 1950's.

Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything
..
And you a computer geek. Try
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

1950 - 4.6/100,000
1960-5.1
1970-7.9
1980-10.2
1990-9.4
2000-5.5
2007-5.9

Cheers,

Schwiek
(goodsolderschweikatgmaildotcom)

light Rust Removal
 

On 2008-11-15, Good Solder Schweik wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:10:07 -0600, Ignoramus29895
wrote:

On 2008-11-15, Al Patrick wrote:
Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.


Check for the 1950's.

Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything
.
And you a computer geek. Try
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

1950 - 4.6/100,000
1960-5.1
1970-7.9
1980-10.2
1990-9.4
2000-5.5
2007-5.9

Congrats.

The difference in numbers, does not strike me as huge.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

light Rust Removal
 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:33:16 -0600, Ignoramus29895
wrote:




I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.

Iggy. I recall the late 60's & 70's as being particularly violent,
and your stats confirm that. The other poster is right. You need to
look at the 50's and possibly earlier. It was in the 80's that things
began to improve again. Lots of things changed simultaneously to
bring about the improvement. Which ones were the main drivers of
change is a political argument.

RWL

light Rust Removal
 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:59:51 -0600, Ignoramus29895
wrote:



I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.


Check for the 1950's.

Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything
.
And you a computer geek. Try
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

1950 - 4.6/100,000
1960-5.1
1970-7.9
1980-10.2
1990-9.4
2000-5.5
2007-5.9

Congrats.

The difference in numbers, does not strike me as huge.

Did you mean the total numbers of murders is not a huge number - that
is 5 or 10 per 100,000 people per year? That doesn't sound like much,
but the RATE about doubled between 1960 and 1980.

Geez. How did I get sucked into this discussion??? This is supposed
to be a metalworking group. A bunch of you guys have Bridgeports and
fixed them and nobody responded to my query about bearing and bushing
replacements, and yet a whole bunch of us discussed this.

RWL

light Rust Removal
 

Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Al Patrick wrote:
Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,
I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.

Check for the 1950's.

Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything.


Wasn't it about 1963 we "kicked God out of the schools"? I suspect "change" started to
accelerate about then.

Of course no one kicks God anywhere, but a few "geniuses" thought that's what they were doing.

light Rust Removal
 

Good Solder Schweik wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:10:07 -0600, Ignoramus29895
wrote:

On 2008-11-15, Al Patrick wrote:
Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,
I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.

Check for the 1950's.
Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything
.
And you a computer geek. Try
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

1950 - 4.6/100,000
1960-5.1
1970-7.9
1980-10.2
1990-9.4
2000-5.5
2007-5.9

Cheers,

Schwiek
(goodsolderschweikatgmaildotcom)

You notice a general rise for years and then in the mid-nineties it starts back down a
bit. Isn't that when we started *re-defining* crimes of all kinds and changing the rules
on everything else? Remember ol' "Teflon Don" - also known as "Slick Willy" - was in
office about that time. :-)

light Rust Removal
 

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote:

Geez. How did I get sucked into this discussion??? This is supposed
to be a metalworking group. A bunch of you guys have Bridgeports and
fixed them and nobody responded to my query about bearing and bushing
replacements, and yet a whole bunch of us discussed this.

RWL

You're right. We strayed very far from the origin of this one subject line and I've been
guilty of posting/replying to many very off topic messages. I'll try a bit harder to
stick to the intent of r.c.m. Sorry about that! *This* subject was on topic originally. ;-)

light Rust Removal
 

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
netofbeaufortcounty...
Good Solder Schweik wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:10:07 -0600, Ignoramus29895
wrote:

On 2008-11-15, Al Patrick wrote:
Ignoramus29895 wrote:
On 2008-11-15, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,
I believe that we have lower murder rates than ever before. (more or
less).
http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/d...ry-Numbers.htm

1976 -- 18,780 murders per 214,000,000 population
2006 -- 17,034 murders per 299,000,000 population

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.
Check for the 1950's.
Al, good question, I looked and could not find anything
.
And you a computer geek. Try
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

1950 - 4.6/100,000
1960-5.1
1970-7.9
1980-10.2
1990-9.4
2000-5.5
2007-5.9

Cheers,

Schwiek
(goodsolderschweikatgmaildotcom)

You notice a general rise for years and then in the mid-nineties it starts
back down a bit. Isn't that when we started *re-defining* crimes of all
kinds and changing the rules on everything else? Remember ol' "Teflon
Don" - also known as "Slick Willy" - was in office about that time. :-)

The mid-'90s is when the very large number of inner city abortions by single
mothers, that were conducted soon after Roe v. Wade, would have produced
young men of around 17 - 22 years of age. The connection is debatable, but
economist Steven Levitt produced some eye-opening research that showed a
remarkable correspondence between those events.

--
Ed Huntress

light Rust Removal
 

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 04:08:28 -0500, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"Al Patrick" wrote in message
rnetofbeaufortcounty...
--snip--
You notice a general rise for years and then in the mid-nineties it starts
back down a bit. Isn't that when we started *re-defining* crimes of all
kinds and changing the rules on everything else? Remember ol' "Teflon
Don" - also known as "Slick Willy" - was in office about that time. :-)

The mid-'90s is when the very large number of inner city abortions by single
mothers, that were conducted soon after Roe v. Wade, would have produced
young men of around 17 - 22 years of age. The connection is debatable, but
economist Steven Levitt produced some eye-opening research that showed a
remarkable correspondence between those events.

It's not debatable with me. You take one or two uncaring parents,
produce an unwanted child in an afflicted area, stir, and in less than
two decades you have Reverend Wrights, Farrakhans, and other
terrorists. It appears to be true for all races, since murderers and
large gangs are found in each.

--
If we all did the things we are capable of doing,
we would literally astound ourselves.
-- Thomas A. Edison

light Rust Removal
 

Ignoramus29895 wrote in
:

If we go back in history, I recall, possibly incorrectly, that murder
rate was higher in those older times as well.

Only in Yankeeland.


--
I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.

light Rust Removal
 

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:14:39 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:59:52 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun,
but it surely doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles
are probably better than the one shown in the url below. It has less
scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955
through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".

Yes, that's similar. The action probably is the same.

Hi-Standard made a number of guns for Sears. My 20-ga. J.C. Higgens
(actually, I think it was called a Ted Williams model) pump shotgun was a
Hi-Standard Flite King Trophy.

Does anyone above 50+ find it disturbing that we once could buy firearms via mail order
and blood wasn't flooding the streets? Now we can't and blood is flowing.

Ah for a return to the simpler times. Outside of getting our foot off of the neck of our
black citizens, we have not marched forward as a society, I say we have marched
retrograde.

Wes


And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
And we used corporal punishment in schools
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

light Rust Removal
 

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:33:33 -0500, Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:14:39 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:59:52 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun,
but it surely doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles
are probably better than the one shown in the url below. It has less
scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955
through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".

Yes, that's similar. The action probably is the same.

Hi-Standard made a number of guns for Sears. My 20-ga. J.C. Higgens
(actually, I think it was called a Ted Williams model) pump shotgun was a
Hi-Standard Flite King Trophy.

Does anyone above 50+ find it disturbing that we once could buy firearms via mail order
and blood wasn't flooding the streets? Now we can't and blood is flowing.

Ah for a return to the simpler times. Outside of getting our foot off of the neck of our
black citizens, we have not marched forward as a society, I say we have marched
retrograde.

Wes


And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
And we used corporal punishment in schools
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

True.
When I was a wee lad the Catholic kids all went to the Parochial
School where the sisters kept order with a long wooden ruler.
Complaints to Father about your kid getting whacked with a ruler were
met with the comment, "send him to public school then".
The Catholic kids transferred to Public school in the 8th grade and
were the sweetest, most well mannered children you ever saw. Took them
a couple of years to get as rowdy as us public school wastrels.

Discipline is a good thing.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

light Rust Removal
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:33:33 -0500, Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:14:39 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:59:52 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 80 which appears to be a brother to that gun,
but it surely doesn't have the gold or rosewood trim. The plastic handles
are probably better than the one shown in the url below. It has less
scratches.

It's 22LR only. Series 583.800 which was supposedly made from 1955
through 1961.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=7909310

I have only the one long barrel, 6.5".
Yes, that's similar. The action probably is the same.

Hi-Standard made a number of guns for Sears. My 20-ga. J.C. Higgens
(actually, I think it was called a Ted Williams model) pump shotgun was a
Hi-Standard Flite King Trophy.
Does anyone above 50+ find it disturbing that we once could buy firearms via mail order
and blood wasn't flooding the streets? Now we can't and blood is flowing.

Ah for a return to the simpler times. Outside of getting our foot off of the neck of our
black citizens, we have not marched forward as a society, I say we have marched
retrograde.

Wes

And does anyone remember that we used to hang murderers? Is there a
connection here anywhere?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
And we used corporal punishment in schools
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

True.
When I was a wee lad the Catholic kids all went to the Parochial
School where the sisters kept order with a long wooden ruler.
Complaints to Father about your kid getting whacked with a ruler were
met with the comment, "send him to public school then".
The Catholic kids transferred to Public school in the 8th grade and
were the sweetest, most well mannered children you ever saw. Took them
a couple of years to get as rowdy as us public school wastrels.

They were also about two grades ahead of us on the learning curve