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Hydraulic motors
Hi All,
I see hydraulic motors are rated in "inch ounces". I have no idea what that means in the real world. Can someone give me an idea of how powerful a 600 in.oz. motor is in terms I can relate to? By this I mean could this amount of force be sufficient to power a mini bike? Is it equal to the power of a 2 horsepower gasoline engine? I am not after a physics lesson, rather a grass roots idea of what it is capable of doing. I have a feel for foot pounds because I use torque wrenches in automobile work. Is there a conversion that would give me a feel for things? Thanks! |
Hydraulic motors
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Hydraulic motors
wrote: (clip) I have a feel for foot pounds because I use torque wrenches in automobile work. Is there a conversion that would give me a feel for things? (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are 16 oz. to the pound, and 12" to the foot, so 1 foot lb would equal 16 x 12 = 192 in oz. So a 600 in oz motor would deliver just over 3 ft lb of torque. But that tells you nothing about the horsepower. To calculate that, you would have to know the RPM. To develop 2 HP, the RPM would have to be 3368. I don't think you can run a hydraulic motor that fast. Are you really thinking about powering a minibike? Where are you planning to get the power to drive the hydraulic pump that delivers pressure to the hydraulic motor? In order to understand this, you need to sort out the difference between torque, force and power. But that would require a physics lesson. |
Hydraulic motors
And Power (hp) = Torque (ft-lb) * RPM / 5252
Art "Terry Coombs" wrote in message news:z6VFk.44351 600 divided by 12 is 50 , divided by 16 is around 3.3 ft/lbs . A lot depends on how many rpm's , and can it be geared down to a usable rpm/torque number |
Hydraulic motors
I am not
after a physics lesson, rather a grass roots idea of what it is capable of doing. You're asking about physics. so don't act like a physics "lesson" is not the answer. You have to go to public school if you want to learn "science" without knowing any math or physics. Women want to sit in a car, turn the key, and go. Men look under the hood and want to know why it goes. |
Hydraulic motors
On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:58:44 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: wrote: Hi All, I see hydraulic motors are rated in "inch ounces". I have no idea what that means in the real world. Can someone give me an idea of how powerful a 600 in.oz. motor is in terms I can relate to? By this I mean could this amount of force be sufficient to power a mini bike? Is it equal to the power of a 2 horsepower gasoline engine? I am not after a physics lesson, rather a grass roots idea of what it is capable of doing. I have a feel for foot pounds because I use torque wrenches in automobile work. Is there a conversion that would give me a feel for things? Thanks! 600 divided by 12 is 50 , divided by 16 is around 3.3 ft/lbs . A lot depends on how many rpm's , and can it be geared down to a usable rpm/torque number ... 3.3 ft-lbf (600 in-ozf) at 1800 RPM would be 843 watts or 1.13 HP. This torque would produce 2 HP at 3183 RPM. |
Hydraulic motors
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Hydraulic motors
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message . .. I am not after a physics lesson, rather a grass roots idea of what it is capable of doing. You're asking about physics. so don't act like a physics "lesson" is not the answer. You have to go to public school if you want to learn "science" without knowing any math or physics. Women want to sit in a car, turn the key, and go. Men look under the hood and want to know why it goes. Amazingly, in 5 sentences you made 5 incorrect (and fairly obnoxious) assertions. Dats 100%!!! Plus boucou extree credit for the obnoxiousness! You musta gone to one helluva Catlick skool. Go, Richard, Go!!! -- DT |
Hydraulic motors
Great comment from Don Foreman on the power/speed continuum! Shows some of the interlinked phases
of physics. In another venue, Don could explain how gazillions of watts of power could be transmitted on a wire the size of a hair, voltage and insulation permitting. Bob Swinney "Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:58:44 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: wrote: Hi All, I see hydraulic motors are rated in "inch ounces". I have no idea what that means in the real world. Can someone give me an idea of how powerful a 600 in.oz. motor is in terms I can relate to? By this I mean could this amount of force be sufficient to power a mini bike? Is it equal to the power of a 2 horsepower gasoline engine? I am not after a physics lesson, rather a grass roots idea of what it is capable of doing. I have a feel for foot pounds because I use torque wrenches in automobile work. Is there a conversion that would give me a feel for things? Thanks! 600 divided by 12 is 50 , divided by 16 is around 3.3 ft/lbs . A lot depends on how many rpm's , and can it be geared down to a usable rpm/torque number ... 3.3 ft-lbf (600 in-ozf) at 1800 RPM would be 843 watts or 1.13 HP. This torque would produce 2 HP at 3183 RPM. |
Hydraulic motors
Robert Swinney wrote:
Great comment from Don Foreman on the power/speed continuum! Shows some of the interlinked phases of physics. In another venue, Don could explain how gazillions of watts of power could be transmitted on a wire the size of a hair, voltage and insulation permitting. Bob Swinney I can't tell if you're being snide or not. At any rate, to transmit lots of power with an itty bitty wire you just need to pull on it at less than it's breaking force, fast enough to so that your (speed)(force) equation equals your desired gazillions of watts. I really can't figure out what this "voltage" and "insulation" stuff is, though :-). -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
Hydraulic motors
On Oct 4, 9:51*pm, wrote:
Hi All, I see hydraulic motors are rated in "inch ounces". *I have no idea what that means in the real world. *Can someone give me an idea of how powerful a 600 in.oz. motor is in terms I can relate to? *By this I mean could this amount of force be sufficient to power a mini bike? Is it equal to the power of a 2 horsepower gasoline engine? *I am not after a physics lesson, rather a grass roots idea of what it is capable of doing. *I have a feel for foot pounds because I use torque wrenches in automobile work. *Is there a conversion that would give me a feel for things? *Thanks! Thanks everyone for your help, except Richard of course, who can go ---- himself. I wanted to make an electric mini bike to get the mail and check on the critters. I saw a friend who made a new endplate for a chevy starter motor and mounted a sproket on the the shaft, which he then chained to the rear wheel. The battery was a normal lead acid car battery and the rig was good for fifteen minutes or so before it needed to be recharged, just about the time I need to do chores. I wanted to use a motor controller, but they are afortune. Even buying mosfets and making one up is expensive. I have hydraulic pumps that could be driven by a starter motor and they are good for about 6 gal per minute at 2000 psi. I checked and saw that hydraulic motors that worked in this range were in the 600 - 1000 inch ounce range. That is what brought about my question. Before some like Richard tells me that the starter motor is not designed for constant usage, I realize that but my friends mini bike shows it up to the task. Using a hydraulic set up it would be possible to govern the speed of the mini bike rather than just off and on the motor. And it could be done cheaper than a $450.00 motor controler. Another idea was to but a centrifugal clutch on an electric motor so that it would disengage when the motor is turned off . Thanks for your thoughts and if any more come up please post them! Rick |
Hydraulic motors
Tim sez: "I can't tell if you're being snide or not snip I really can't figure out what this
"voltage" and "insulation" stuff is, though :-)." Better it should have been said "electrical energy" rather than power. Power doesn't really happen until something spins or heats up at the far end of the energy conduit, whatever that may be. Technically it also should have been "gazillions of kilowatt-hours" All that being said, P = Voltage ^2 / R Thus it is theoretically possible to transmit very large amounts of energy over a very small conductor - think cryogenics and super high voltage. Hmmmnnnn, P = dt/de 'Nother way of saying it. Bob Swinney |
Hydraulic motors
Didn't you say you have exra hydraulic pumps lying around? I believe you
could use one of the pumps as a motor by pushing fluid through it. |
Hydraulic motors
On Oct 5, 8:37*pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote:
Didn't you say you have exra hydraulic pumps lying around? *I believe you could use one of the pumps as a motor by pushing fluid through it. Hi Leo, That is a good question that I don't have and answer for. I have noticed that most pumps, in the range I am thinking about, have input shafts around 3/8". Motors of this capacity have output shafts that are around 5/8" to 3/4". I am not sure why that is other than perhaps they are designed for "radial load" rather than just a twisting load. I don't think I said that well but I hope you get what I am trying to say! Rick |
Hydraulic motors
On 2008-10-05, Robert Swinney wrote:
Tim sez: "I can't tell if you're being snide or not snip I really can't figure out what this "voltage" and "insulation" stuff is, though :-)." Better it should have been said "electrical energy" rather than power. Power doesn't really happen until something spins or heats up at the far end of the energy conduit, whatever that may be. Technically it also should have been "gazillions of kilowatt-hours" All that being said, P = Voltage ^2 / R Thus it is theoretically possible to transmit very large amounts of energy over a very small conductor - think cryogenics and super high voltage. Hmmmnnnn, P = dt/de 'Nother way of saying it. Except that very small wire diameters don't get along well with very high voltages -- most of your power goes away in corona spray. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Hydraulic motors
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... Didn't you say you have exra hydraulic pumps lying around? I believe you could use one of the pumps as a motor by pushing fluid through it. Indeed. Google "hydraulic generators". -- DT |
Hydraulic motors
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:12:09 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote: Most DC permanent-magnet motors have fairly low torque when there is no current flowing, so in an application like this you could just leave them connected. I would expect a starter motor would be the same. You'll have some losses, but not that bad. Just as speed * force = power, and rotary speed * torque = power, flow * pressure = power. You could find the absolute maximum power to the wheel fairly easily by finding the power in a 6GPM, 2000psi flow. That's about 5220 watts or 7.0 HP. |
Hydraulic motors
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... Tim sez: "I can't tell if you're being snide or not snip I really can't figure out what this "voltage" and "insulation" stuff is, though :-)." Better it should have been said "electrical energy" rather than power. Power doesn't really happen until something spins or heats up at the far end of the energy conduit, whatever that may be. Technically it also should have been "gazillions of kilowatt-hours" All that being said, P = Voltage ^2 / R Thus it is theoretically possible to transmit very large amounts of energy over a very small conductor - think cryogenics and super high voltage. Hmmmnnnn, P = dt/de 'Nother way of saying it. But not the correct way. P = dE/dt. or dW/dt. Also, your distinction between energy and power is not valid, in the above. If "energy happens", then "power happens". If power happens, energy happens. Always. It's only that without specifying time, you can't specify *how much* of each. But one *always* implies the other. -- DT Bob Swinney |
Hydraulic motors
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Hydraulic motors
Droll, et al,
I offered the thin-wire analogy to show there are physics counterparts to the HP/RPM/Torque thing. My apolgies to all those over whose heads it went. Youall go on thinking you can belt-up any amount of torque to move any amount of load at any desired speed. Bob (doesn't suffer fools well) Swinney |
Hydraulic motors
On Oct 5, 9:09*am, "Robert Swinney" wrote:
.. *In another venue, Don could explain how gazillions of watts of power could be transmitted on a wire the size of a hair, voltage and insulation permitting. Bob Swinney One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. Dan |
Hydraulic motors
wrote: One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That can't be right. Do you mean 2000 watts? Even that sounds a bit edgy. |
Hydraulic motors
I agree but he didn't say how long the wire was carrying that current.
If the application was to spectrally analyze the content of the wire and it was intended that it turn into a plasma ..... Art "Leo Lichtman" wrote That can't be right. Do you mean 2000 watts? Even that sounds a bit edgy. |
Hydraulic motors
On Oct 7, 11:03*pm, " wrote:
One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch *in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Making nanoparticles? |
Hydraulic motors
Artemus wrote: I agree but he didn't say how long the wire was carrying that current. If the application was to spectrally analyze the content of the wire and it was intended that it turn into a plasma ..... I must have missed where he said it was a steady current flow instead of a short pulse. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
Hydraulic motors
On Oct 8, 4:43*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 7, 11:03*pm, " wrote: One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch *in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Making nanoparticles? Exploding bridgewire ordnance system for ICBM |
Hydraulic motors
" wrote: On Oct 8, 4:43 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Oct 7, 11:03 pm, " wrote: One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. Dan Making nanoparticles? Exploding bridgewire ordnance system for ICBM The 'Inter City Beer Missile'? -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
Hydraulic motors
On Oct 10, 9:04*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: " wrote: On Oct 8, 4:43 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Oct 7, 11:03 pm, " wrote: One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch *in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Making nanoparticles? Exploding bridgewire ordnance system for ICBM * *The 'Inter City Beer Missile'? Polaris A3 |
Hydraulic motors
At what duty cycle.
That wire won't consider to carry 2000 amps unless it is a very low duty cycle. And 4 e^6 watts ! Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ wrote: On Oct 5, 9:09 am, "Robert Swinney" wrote: . In another venue, Don could explain how gazillions of watts of power could be transmitted on a wire the size of a hair, voltage and insulation permitting. Bob Swinney One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. Dan ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Hydraulic motors
" wrote: On Oct 10, 9:04 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: " wrote: On Oct 8, 4:43 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Oct 7, 11:03 pm, " wrote: One of my first jobs was on a system that transmitted about 2000 amps through a wire that was .002 inch in diameter. Voltage was a bit over 2000 volts. Dan Making nanoparticles? Exploding bridgewire ordnance system for ICBM The 'Inter City Beer Missile'? Polaris A3 The 'Inter City Beer Missile' was part of a silly beer commercial on a Cicinnati TV station in the '70s. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
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