I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.

Steve

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SteveB wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.
I doubt you'll find it to be going to a bulb. Is there a door open
light? If it still works, make sure it is going out when all doors are
supposed to be shut. The couple days to kill the battery sounds about
right for one of the door switches to not be getting pressed in enough
to turn that off. It could be a hood or trunk light that is not going
off, either. There's no dash indicator for that.

Also, check the charging system to make sure the battery is truly
getting charged when it runs. It could also be the battery as damaged
due to shock in the wreck, and will no longer hold a charge (probably
weak short of a cell). It could also be a bad battery ground cable,
loose battery terminal, etc.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote: (clip) It could also be a bad battery ground cable,
loose battery terminal, etc.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Of all the things you listed, that's the one thing it could NOT be. As Iggy
suggested, insert an ammeter in the battery circuit. If the problem is not
due to a damaged cell (extremely unlikely) you will see current flow when
everything is suposed to be off. Pulling the fuses one at a time will tell
you where to look. As mentioned elsewhere, it is likely to be a
door/domelight switch, trunk light switch or hood light switch, since the
problem started with body damage/repair.

The battery in my Ford discharged in a few days through a relay that
had welded shut. I found it with an ammeter.

Any multimeter with ammeter function can help you diagnose the issue.

I would

1) Check the charging system, as Jon Elson suggests
2) Take a multimeter with ammeter function (regular kind, where you
connect alligator clips or probes to be in the current loop
3) Check at the battery post first
4) Try to check current through every fuse in the fuse box
5) Worst case, buy one of those $5 battery disconnects and disconnect
the battery

On 2008-09-18, SteveB toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.

To see it it is drawing current -- lift the ground (-) terminal
of the battery and connect a multimeter between the terminal and the
ground. The multimeter should be in current mode -- ideally in the
highest Amps range to start with, and reduce it until you get a reading.
You probably *will* get a reading from the engine's computer -- but a
very low one when the ignition is off -- just enough to maintain the
memory of the settings -- oh yes -- also some from the clock in the
radio. However, if it is more than perhaps 10mA then you do need to
trace it down. The easiest way (since it may not be a bulb, but simply
pinched insulation near where things got crunkled) pull the fuses out --
one at a time, and watch changes in current. Since each fuse is labeled
(at least in the manual) as to what it feeds, it will help you to
identify where the problem is -- or at least which wires to trace to
find the problem. If you still measure current with *all* fuses out (if
you pull more than one -- keep track of which current rating goes in
which socket) then it is a problem between the battery and the fuse
block.

Or -- it it possible tha the case of the battery has cracked
from the impact? With today's gel-cell batteries, it might be slowly
evaporating away the water and leaving less and less electrolyte in the
gell.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery
now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a
draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see
if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's
something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and
spending an unnecessary repair bill.

Others have told you how to use an ammeter to look for current drain. But
first, you should not assume that your battery is good simply because the car
starts OK with a fresh battery charge. All cars these days have SOME current
drain with the key off, plus all batteries self-discharge to some extent. If
your battery has only a small fraction of its original capacity, these small
drains can be sufficient to discharge the battery just enough so that the car
won't start.

That car is 13 years old, and might be at the end of its second or even third
battery by now. There are many places that will give you a free battery check.

I might add that being drained flat is very bad for any auto battery, and now
it has apparently happened to yours several times. So even if your battery was
not bad before this problem started, it can be now. That means that you should
still do that current check even if the battery tester says your battery is
toast.


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In article , "Vaughn Simon" wrote:

That car is 13 years old, and might be at the end of its second or even third
battery by now. There are many places that will give you a free battery check.

Heck, it might be at the end of its *first* battery. Seriously. We bought a
used 84 LeSabre in '91. Had to replace the battery about six years later --
turned out it was the factory original. I confirmed the date code with Delco:
the battery was made in December 1983. You can probably guess what brand the
replacement was...

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"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.

If your battery is properly charged, a carbon pile (load tester) will check your battery's
health. You can probably get that for free with an oil change at walmart. Last winter
when I took my car in for an oil change. I noticed they did that test. I bet if you
check around the auto part stores will do it for you also.

How old is the battery? I'm 6 years on the battery in my Saturn and I have no idea how
old it was when I bought the car used. My former truck only made it 4 years on a battery.
Of course it had an engine to spin up, my car has a squirrel to wake up.

You have to have a decent connection to start your vehicle. That rules out battery
corrosion and poor frame ground.

The easiest way to check for a draw issue is to drive car to make sure it is charged and
then park it and disconnect one of the terminals from battery. When you are ready to use
vehicle again reconnect. I'm assuming that if you turn on your headlights at night and
they get brighter when the engine is running that you have a working charging system.

Two things matter, CCA (cold cranking amps) and reserve capacity. Most batteries have at
least an hour of reserve capacity which is delivering 25 amps for x minutes w/o falling
below 10.5v for a 12v battery.

IIRC, the typical headlight is 55 watts that is almost 2 and 3/4 hours of run time. If
you are in a hurry, turn on the headlights if you think the battery is charged and see how
long they stay on.

Wes



Wes

Remove the Neg battery terminal and connect a DVM set on amps
(1st)between them. If reads below 200MA, set the meter to MA and read
the actual draw. 30-150MA static draw is normal for ECM and radio mem.
Anything over this will pull the batt down fairly quick. If more than
150MA, start pulling fuses until the draw drops to normal.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


SteveB wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.

Steve


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--------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------
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"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

And remember the new batteries (last 5 years) are low lead batteries.
I kept running through them in my truck. The eco greens thought it reduced
the lead in the environment by halving the lead in a battery.

It just means a plate can get a hole or flake apart. Once lead piles up
on the bottom, it shorts out the battery.

I bought a heavy duty full plate one for my truck.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


JR North wrote:
Remove the Neg battery terminal and connect a DVM set on amps
(1st)between them. If reads below 200MA, set the meter to MA and read
the actual draw. 30-150MA static draw is normal for ECM and radio mem.
Anything over this will pull the batt down fairly quick. If more than
150MA, start pulling fuses until the draw drops to normal.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


SteveB wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair,
the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to
see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go
around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the
switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find
it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.

Steve




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On Sep 18, 7:35*pm, JR North wrote:
Remove the Neg battery terminal and connect a DVM set on amps
(1st)between them. If reads below 200MA, set the meter to MA and read
the actual draw. 30-150MA static draw is normal for ECM and radio mem.
Anything over this will pull the batt down fairly quick. If more than
150MA, start pulling fuses until the draw drops to normal.
JR

Put a switch in series with the battery lead and the ammeter across
the switch. Open the switch to read the meter, then close it. Start
with the meter on its highest range and decrease it, with the switch
closed, until the reading has enough significant digits to be useful.
Otherwise you may blow the meter's fuse or damage it.

SteveB wrote:

I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.



If it was in a shop, how do you know you have the same battery?


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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:11:13 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:

I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.

Steve


Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away.

Keep in mind the radio may draw a small amount, the computer may draw
a small amount, as well as any alarm system.
First thing I always check..is the glove box switch, the trunk switch
and the switch if you have a lamp under the hood. Most of the time
its been them in my experience.

If that doesnt resolve the problem, unplug the battery lead for a few
days and see it goes down by itself. Sometimes after a minor
fenderbender..a battery may develope an internal short.

Gunner

"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.


Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then
connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery
safety.

Wes

"Wes" wrote: Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive
first on both ends, then
connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer
in battery
safety.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks. Wes, for the verification. Now, if you don't mind, I'll add a
clarification to your verification. The final ground connection should be
made at some point AWAY FROM THE BATTERY.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

Now, if you don't mind, I'll add a
clarification to your verification. The final ground connection should be
made at some point AWAY FROM THE BATTERY.


Most definitely!

When I was helping with jumper cables - don't carry them anymore -
I would charge the other battery from mine and my engine running.

I would then disconnect the + leads and have the other person try to
start. Often it was just below a relay or computer level of function.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.


Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then
connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery
safety.

Wes





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It's possible a cell cracked. Try pulling the neg cable when out of use.
Take voltage readings and write it down before and after. Very common
problem Sir.

Good luck,

Rob

Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.



"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
When I was helping with jumper cables - don't carry them anymore -
I would charge the other battery from mine and my engine running.

I would then disconnect the + leads and have the other person try to
start. Often it was just below a relay or computer level of function.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and
start unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I
would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always
best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of
shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a
battery, do the hot side first.

Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on
both ends, then
connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer
in battery
safety.

Wes





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On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.


Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then
connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery
safety.

Wes


Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side
will spark just as easily as the postive side if
connecting/disconnecting under load.

Gunner

"Gunner" wrote: Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The
ground side
will spark just as easily as the postive side if
connecting/disconnecting under load.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the sloppy thinking and misdirection that dominates your politics is
spilling over into your technical world. Shame! We were talking about
sparks to ground. If you think the battery is under sufficient load
(discharging over a period of a few days) to create a dangerous spark when
disconnected, then, by all means, disconnect the remote end of the ground
cable and insert the ammeter there.

On 2008-09-20, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote:

[ ... ]

Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then
connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery
safety.

[ ... ]

Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side
will spark just as easily as the postive side if
connecting/disconnecting under load.

Well ... with jumper cables, the ground connection is supposed
to be at a distance from the battery terminals -- somewhere on the
chassis.

Batteries also explode when you bend over one with the caps off
to check the level while you've got a lit cigarette in your mouth, as a
friend discovered. Luckily, there was someone, and another working car,
to drive him to a hospital to get cleaned up. :-)

AFIK -- he still smokes.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:13:42 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.

True enough.

Im old school...I always pull the "power side" first...chuckle...like
the hot side in a single phase circuit.

What..you dont like heat treating wrenches???

G

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:38:44 -0700, the infamous Gunner
scrolled the following:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:13:42 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.

True enough.

Im old school...I always pull the "power side" first...chuckle...like
the hot side in a single phase circuit.

What..you dont like heat treating wrenches???

So, _that's_ where you learned your pristine spare tire welding form,
eh, Gunner?

--
Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous
delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
--e e cummings

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:41:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:38:44 -0700, the infamous Gunner
scrolled the following:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:13:42 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start
unplugging
fuses into all draw goes away. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would
put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to
do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the
wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the
hot side first.

True enough.

Im old school...I always pull the "power side" first...chuckle...like
the hot side in a single phase circuit.

What..you dont like heat treating wrenches???

So, _that's_ where you learned your pristine spare tire welding form,
eh, Gunner?


Nope...I learned that with jumper cables and a bit of coat hanger.


"Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies
and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas writes:

I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if
there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull
bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm
sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it
over and spending an unnecessary repair bill.


A) I agree with the those suggesting an ammeter in the ground leg.
THIS IS WITH THE CAR OFF.

You may see 40-50 mA. with doors closed, etc. [Make sure there's no
underhood light.] If it's more, pull fuses one at a time. There may well
be multiple fuse boxes, by the way.

I'm going through this with a friend's car. Despite a new battery
[several actually; the battery people have tried ....] and a 40mA draw,
his keeps dying. I think his issue is he drives his car once every two
weeks, and then not very far. I have a Harbour Fright battery cutoff and
$10 bolt-in charger for him.

B) To check the charging, don't worry about amps. Start the car, measure
the battery voltage at fast idle. It should be ~14v. Turn on the
headlights, rear window defrogger, blower etc. You should hear the motor
drag down, and maybe the belt sing slightly. But you should still get
~14v, although you might need to give it another 1000 RPM.


Never ever disconnect the battery on a running car. It's a vital part of
the equation. If you disconnect it, you get what is called a "load dump"
-- the voltage shoots up to ~65V until, several hundred msec later, the
voltage regulator manages to get it down to reasonable levels again.
[The effective inductance of the alternator is ~~1H; that's why nothing
happens quickly.]

By that time, many of the exquisitely expensive electronic gadgets on board
may have let some of their magic smoke out....

As for jump-starting:

1) A battery being charged may vent hydrogen.
2) Hydrogen + sparks == kaboom.

It's the jumped battery that is getting rapidly charged after starting. So I
make it point to disconnect the first end at the jumping car. In a perfect
world, you could just use the block/frame for the ground connection, but lately
it seems like everything exposed under the hood is plastic or the wrong shape to
clamp onto.





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