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Automotive question
SteveB wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. I doubt you'll find it to be going to a bulb. Is there a door open light? If it still works, make sure it is going out when all doors are supposed to be shut. The couple days to kill the battery sounds about right for one of the door switches to not be getting pressed in enough to turn that off. It could be a hood or trunk light that is not going off, either. There's no dash indicator for that. Also, check the charging system to make sure the battery is truly getting charged when it runs. It could also be the battery as damaged due to shock in the wreck, and will no longer hold a charge (probably weak short of a cell). It could also be a bad battery ground cable, loose battery terminal, etc. Jon |
Automotive question
Any multimeter with ammeter function can help you diagnose the issue.
I would 1) Check the charging system, as Jon Elson suggests 2) Take a multimeter with ammeter function (regular kind, where you connect alligator clips or probes to be in the current loop 3) Check at the battery post first 4) Try to check current through every fuse in the fuse box 5) Worst case, buy one of those $5 battery disconnects and disconnect the battery |
Automotive question
"Jon Elson" wrote: (clip) It could also be a bad battery ground cable, loose battery terminal, etc. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Of all the things you listed, that's the one thing it could NOT be. As Iggy suggested, insert an ammeter in the battery circuit. If the problem is not due to a damaged cell (extremely unlikely) you will see current flow when everything is suposed to be off. Pulling the fuses one at a time will tell you where to look. As mentioned elsewhere, it is likely to be a door/domelight switch, trunk light switch or hood light switch, since the problem started with body damage/repair. |
Automotive question
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the
battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. Steve -- "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Theodore Roosevelt 1891 |
Automotive question
The battery in my Ford discharged in a few days through a relay that
had welded shut. I found it with an ammeter. |
Automotive question
On 2008-09-18, SteveB toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. To see it it is drawing current -- lift the ground (-) terminal of the battery and connect a multimeter between the terminal and the ground. The multimeter should be in current mode -- ideally in the highest Amps range to start with, and reduce it until you get a reading. You probably *will* get a reading from the engine's computer -- but a very low one when the ignition is off -- just enough to maintain the memory of the settings -- oh yes -- also some from the clock in the radio. However, if it is more than perhaps 10mA then you do need to trace it down. The easiest way (since it may not be a bulb, but simply pinched insulation near where things got crunkled) pull the fuses out -- one at a time, and watch changes in current. Since each fuse is labeled (at least in the manual) as to what it feeds, it will help you to identify where the problem is -- or at least which wires to trace to find the problem. If you still measure current with *all* fuses out (if you pull more than one -- keep track of which current rating goes in which socket) then it is a problem between the battery and the fuse block. Or -- it it possible tha the case of the battery has cracked from the impact? With today's gel-cell batteries, it might be slowly evaporating away the water and leaving less and less electrolyte in the gell. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Automotive question
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message ... I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. Others have told you how to use an ammeter to look for current drain. But first, you should not assume that your battery is good simply because the car starts OK with a fresh battery charge. All cars these days have SOME current drain with the key off, plus all batteries self-discharge to some extent. If your battery has only a small fraction of its original capacity, these small drains can be sufficient to discharge the battery just enough so that the car won't start. That car is 13 years old, and might be at the end of its second or even third battery by now. There are many places that will give you a free battery check. I might add that being drained flat is very bad for any auto battery, and now it has apparently happened to yours several times. So even if your battery was not bad before this problem started, it can be now. That means that you should still do that current check even if the battery tester says your battery is toast. -- Vaughn .................................................. ....... Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program. You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time $3.95 setup fee. .................................................. ........ Will poofread for food. |
Automotive question
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. If your battery is properly charged, a carbon pile (load tester) will check your battery's health. You can probably get that for free with an oil change at walmart. Last winter when I took my car in for an oil change. I noticed they did that test. I bet if you check around the auto part stores will do it for you also. How old is the battery? I'm 6 years on the battery in my Saturn and I have no idea how old it was when I bought the car used. My former truck only made it 4 years on a battery. Of course it had an engine to spin up, my car has a squirrel to wake up. You have to have a decent connection to start your vehicle. That rules out battery corrosion and poor frame ground. The easiest way to check for a draw issue is to drive car to make sure it is charged and then park it and disconnect one of the terminals from battery. When you are ready to use vehicle again reconnect. I'm assuming that if you turn on your headlights at night and they get brighter when the engine is running that you have a working charging system. Two things matter, CCA (cold cranking amps) and reserve capacity. Most batteries have at least an hour of reserve capacity which is delivering 25 amps for x minutes w/o falling below 10.5v for a 12v battery. IIRC, the typical headlight is 55 watts that is almost 2 and 3/4 hours of run time. If you are in a hurry, turn on the headlights if you think the battery is charged and see how long they stay on. Wes Wes |
Automotive question
Remove the Neg battery terminal and connect a DVM set on amps
(1st)between them. If reads below 200MA, set the meter to MA and read the actual draw. 30-150MA static draw is normal for ECM and radio mem. Anything over this will pull the batt down fairly quick. If more than 150MA, start pulling fuses until the draw drops to normal. JR Dweller in the cellar SteveB wrote: I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. Steve -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
Automotive question
And remember the new batteries (last 5 years) are low lead batteries.
I kept running through them in my truck. The eco greens thought it reduced the lead in the environment by halving the lead in a battery. It just means a plate can get a hole or flake apart. Once lead piles up on the bottom, it shorts out the battery. I bought a heavy duty full plate one for my truck. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ JR North wrote: Remove the Neg battery terminal and connect a DVM set on amps (1st)between them. If reads below 200MA, set the meter to MA and read the actual draw. 30-150MA static draw is normal for ECM and radio mem. Anything over this will pull the batt down fairly quick. If more than 150MA, start pulling fuses until the draw drops to normal. JR Dweller in the cellar SteveB wrote: I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. Steve ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Automotive question
SteveB wrote: I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. If it was in a shop, how do you know you have the same battery? -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
Automotive question
On Sep 18, 7:35*pm, JR North wrote:
Remove the Neg battery terminal and connect a DVM set on amps (1st)between them. If reads below 200MA, set the meter to MA and read the actual draw. 30-150MA static draw is normal for ECM and radio mem. Anything over this will pull the batt down fairly quick. If more than 150MA, start pulling fuses until the draw drops to normal. JR Put a switch in series with the battery lead and the ammeter across the switch. Open the switch to read the meter, then close it. Start with the meter on its highest range and decrease it, with the switch closed, until the reading has enough significant digits to be useful. Otherwise you may blow the meter's fuse or damage it. |
Automotive question
In article , "Vaughn Simon" wrote:
That car is 13 years old, and might be at the end of its second or even third battery by now. There are many places that will give you a free battery check. Heck, it might be at the end of its *first* battery. Seriously. We bought a used 84 LeSabre in '91. Had to replace the battery about six years later -- turned out it was the factory original. I confirmed the date code with Delco: the battery was made in December 1983. You can probably guess what brand the replacement was... -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com) Join the UseNet Improvement Project: killfile Google Groups. http://www.improve-usenet.org Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response. Download Nfilter at http://www.milmac.com/np-120.exe |
Automotive question
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:11:13 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote: I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. Steve Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. Keep in mind the radio may draw a small amount, the computer may draw a small amount, as well as any alarm system. First thing I always check..is the glove box switch, the trunk switch and the switch if you have a lamp under the hood. Most of the time its been them in my experience. If that doesnt resolve the problem, unplug the battery lead for a few days and see it goes down by itself. Sometimes after a minor fenderbender..a battery may develope an internal short. Gunner |
Automotive question
"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. |
Automotive question
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:
"Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. Wes |
Automotive question
"Wes" wrote: Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks. Wes, for the verification. Now, if you don't mind, I'll add a clarification to your verification. The final ground connection should be made at some point AWAY FROM THE BATTERY. |
Automotive question
When I was helping with jumper cables - don't carry them anymore -
I would charge the other battery from mine and my engine running. I would then disconnect the + leads and have the other person try to start. Often it was just below a relay or computer level of function. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Wes wrote: "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. Wes ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Automotive question
It's possible a cell cracked. Try pulling the neg cable when out of use.
Take voltage readings and write it down before and after. Very common problem Sir. Good luck, Rob Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... When I was helping with jumper cables - don't carry them anymore - I would charge the other battery from mine and my engine running. I would then disconnect the + leads and have the other person try to start. Often it was just below a relay or computer level of function. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Wes wrote: "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. Wes ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Automotive question
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:
Now, if you don't mind, I'll add a clarification to your verification. The final ground connection should be made at some point AWAY FROM THE BATTERY. Most definitely! |
Automotive question
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:13:42 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. True enough. Im old school...I always pull the "power side" first...chuckle...like the hot side in a single phase circuit. What..you dont like heat treating wrenches??? G |
Automotive question
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. Wes Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. Gunner |
Automotive question
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:29:26 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrolled the following: "Leo Lichtman" wrote: Now, if you don't mind, I'll add a clarification to your verification. The final ground connection should be made at some point AWAY FROM THE BATTERY. Most definitely! I always instinctively blew on the battery before making the connections, especially directly after charging one. There's no sense in letting hydrogen do its thing in my face, is there? -- Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit. --e e cummings |
Automotive question
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:38:44 -0700, the infamous Gunner
scrolled the following: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:13:42 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. True enough. Im old school...I always pull the "power side" first...chuckle...like the hot side in a single phase circuit. What..you dont like heat treating wrenches??? So, _that's_ where you learned your pristine spare tire welding form, eh, Gunner? -- Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit. --e e cummings |
Automotive question
"Gunner" wrote: Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the sloppy thinking and misdirection that dominates your politics is spilling over into your technical world. Shame! We were talking about sparks to ground. If you think the battery is under sufficient load (discharging over a period of a few days) to create a dangerous spark when disconnected, then, by all means, disconnect the remote end of the ground cable and insert the ammeter there. |
Automotive question
On 2008-09-20, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote: [ ... ] Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. [ ... ] Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. Well ... with jumper cables, the ground connection is supposed to be at a distance from the battery terminals -- somewhere on the chassis. Batteries also explode when you bend over one with the caps off to check the level while you've got a lit cigarette in your mouth, as a friend discovered. Luckily, there was someone, and another working car, to drive him to a hospital to get cleaned up. :-) AFIK -- he still smokes. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Automotive question
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas writes:
I have a 95 Nissan Pathfinder. After a minor fender bender repair, the battery now goes dead after it sits a few days. How do I check to see if there is a draw on it when sitting still? Do I have to go around and pull bulbs and see if they are getting electricity when the switch is off? I'm sure it's something simple, and would like to find it instead of taking it over and spending an unnecessary repair bill. A) I agree with the those suggesting an ammeter in the ground leg. THIS IS WITH THE CAR OFF. You may see 40-50 mA. with doors closed, etc. [Make sure there's no underhood light.] If it's more, pull fuses one at a time. There may well be multiple fuse boxes, by the way. I'm going through this with a friend's car. Despite a new battery [several actually; the battery people have tried ....] and a 40mA draw, his keeps dying. I think his issue is he drives his car once every two weeks, and then not very far. I have a Harbour Fright battery cutoff and $10 bolt-in charger for him. B) To check the charging, don't worry about amps. Start the car, measure the battery voltage at fast idle. It should be ~14v. Turn on the headlights, rear window defrogger, blower etc. You should hear the motor drag down, and maybe the belt sing slightly. But you should still get ~14v, although you might need to give it another 1000 RPM. Never ever disconnect the battery on a running car. It's a vital part of the equation. If you disconnect it, you get what is called a "load dump" -- the voltage shoots up to ~65V until, several hundred msec later, the voltage regulator manages to get it down to reasonable levels again. [The effective inductance of the alternator is ~~1H; that's why nothing happens quickly.] By that time, many of the exquisitely expensive electronic gadgets on board may have let some of their magic smoke out.... As for jump-starting: 1) A battery being charged may vent hydrogen. 2) Hydrogen + sparks == kaboom. It's the jumped battery that is getting rapidly charged after starting. So I make it point to disconnect the first end at the jumping car. In a perfect world, you could just use the block/frame for the ground connection, but lately it seems like everything exposed under the hood is plastic or the wrong shape to clamp onto. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
Automotive question
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:41:52 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:38:44 -0700, the infamous Gunner scrolled the following: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:13:42 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Put an ammeter in line with the hot battery lead, and start unplugging fuses into all draw goes away. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the same current goes through the ground cable--that's where I would put the ammeter. Why? When disconnecting a battery, it's always best to do the ground cable first--it eliminates the possibility of shorting the wrench or pliers to ground. Similarly, when installing a battery, do the hot side first. True enough. Im old school...I always pull the "power side" first...chuckle...like the hot side in a single phase circuit. What..you dont like heat treating wrenches??? So, _that's_ where you learned your pristine spare tire welding form, eh, Gunner? Nope...I learned that with jumper cables and a bit of coat hanger. "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich |
Automotive question
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:05:29 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote: Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gunner, the sloppy thinking and misdirection that dominates your politics is spilling over into your technical world. Shame! We were talking about sparks to ground. If you think the battery is under sufficient load (discharging over a period of a few days) to create a dangerous spark when disconnected, then, by all means, disconnect the remote end of the ground cable and insert the ammeter there. The sloppy thinking and misdirection that dominates your politics is apparently leading you to show your buffoonishness to all the readers. Heads up Leo....any spark is dangerous in the presence of a flammible gas, no matter how small. You think your vehicle, under normal maint drain wont spark when you pull either lead? All of my vehicles must have been "special". You on the other hand...must have been "special needs" Gunner "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich |
Automotive question
On 21 Sep 2008 01:56:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2008-09-20, Gunner wrote: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote: [ ... ] Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. [ ... ] Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. Well ... with jumper cables, the ground connection is supposed to be at a distance from the battery terminals -- somewhere on the chassis. Yes..thats what is supposed to happen. Most folks will simply stick it on the neg side of the battery. And yes...it will spark with either Batteries also explode when you bend over one with the caps off to check the level while you've got a lit cigarette in your mouth, as a friend discovered. Luckily, there was someone, and another working car, to drive him to a hospital to get cleaned up. :-) AFIK -- he still smokes. Enjoy, DoN. I took a non smoker to the hospital for treatment when a battery blew on him. Something about that nasty spark when using the lifiting lug on the side of that 350 Chev as a ground lug..in the presence of hydrogen Gunner "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich |
Automotive question
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-09-20, Gunner wrote: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote: [ ... ] Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. [ ... ] Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. Well ... with jumper cables, the ground connection is supposed to be at a distance from the battery terminals -- somewhere on the chassis. Batteries also explode when you bend over one with the caps off to check the level while you've got a lit cigarette in your mouth, as a friend discovered. Luckily, there was someone, and another working car, to drive him to a hospital to get cleaned up. :-) AFIK -- he still smokes. Enjoy, DoN. As a kid back in the early 70's, I worked at the local Searz auto center installing batteries (amongst other things). I installed many, many, many thousands in the few years I was there. Back then, customers brought their car to the 'battery line' and we installed/checked and or whatever while they milled around and watched. We also did voltage regulators, alternators, the occasional generator (remember those?) starters and related stuff. One night we were swamped with battery installations, and while working with one customer, noticed another checking his electrolyte level with a Bic lighter. Before I could even yell it went off in his face and splashed down several others watching, including a fellow employee who luckily had his back turned. It blew the top off of all six cells which wasn't all that common for battery explosions back in those days... 3 or 4 cells was much more typical. (Why? I couldn't tell you...) The customer with the lighter, other than for a few superficial facial scratches came out relatively unscathed. He was about about 10' from the shop eye washer at the time, and we had him in there flushing away within seconds. None of the other's complained of eye exposure, but use of the shop hose and bathrooms was popular for a while. I heard Searz payed for a lot of clothes and paint over this incident. Today they would have been sued back to the stone age. Were any policies changed after the accident? No. It was business as usual for as long as I worked there, and I remember seeing the same set-up driving by that shop for years afterwards. Amazing. They didn't even mandate the use of safety glasses. Believe it or not, this was the only battery explosion I witnessed, or even heard of that actually happened at our shop! Searz made sure new kids were up to speed with battery safety before being let loose, and it looks like it payed off. Those cable connection and jumper cable procedures, if followed, are actually real world effective. However, maybe once a month or so, a customer showed up with a blown up 'core' battery. Even less often, one would also be sporting facial injuries. Almost all claimed jumper cable use, or the act of battery cable connection/disconnection to be the source of ignition. Erik |
Automotive question
Gunner Asch wrote: I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. It's those Martians, i tell you! They tried to read your mind, but the foil in your hat blocked their ray. Then your battery exploded when they upped the power! ;-) -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
Automotive question
In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote: [snip] I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. I would bet on a bad voltage regulator overcharging the battery and thus generating too much hydrogen and oxygen, coupled with a blocked relief vent, so the overpressure popped the top off the battery. Note that the hydrogen and oxygen probably did not ignite, for lack of a spark. Joe Gwinn |
Automotive question
"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , Gunner Asch wrote: [snip] I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. I would bet on a bad voltage regulator overcharging the battery and thus generating too much hydrogen and oxygen, coupled with a blocked relief vent, so the overpressure popped the top off the battery. Note that the hydrogen and oxygen probably did not ignite, for lack of a spark. Joe Gwinn Internal short/spark. |
Automotive question
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:31:59 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. It's those Martians, i tell you! They tried to read your mind, but the foil in your hat blocked their ray. Then your battery exploded when they upped the power! ;-) Oooooo! tHAT explAINS THE BLacK hELicoTERS!! "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich |
Automotive question
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:03:24 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: In article , Gunner Asch wrote: [snip] I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. I would bet on a bad voltage regulator overcharging the battery and thus generating too much hydrogen and oxygen, coupled with a blocked relief vent, so the overpressure popped the top off the battery. Note that the hydrogen and oxygen probably did not ignite, for lack of a spark. Joe Gwinn Yet the same regulator is still on the truck. Might have been a vent tube...shrug...scarred the **** out of me at the time Gunner "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich |
Automotive question
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:38:22 -0600, "RJ" wrote:
"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , Gunner Asch wrote: [snip] I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. I would bet on a bad voltage regulator overcharging the battery and thus generating too much hydrogen and oxygen, coupled with a blocked relief vent, so the overpressure popped the top off the battery. Note that the hydrogen and oxygen probably did not ignite, for lack of a spark. Joe Gwinn Internal short/spark. Thats my thinking. There wasnt a bit of dust left anywhere in the engine compartment......I thought the radiator had exploded for the cloud of smoog coming out everywhere "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich |
Automotive question
That is actually a scary thought but easy to figure.
Consider this : Lead shakes down into the bottom and starts building a small hill of conduction metal. This then reaches upward and shorts out plates. Or almost shorts. High current occurs only in the battery - likely between plates or cells. High current and hydrogen and oxygen is generated. It likely didn't explode just pressured and exploded. The gas might have detonated post explode from sparks being produced. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:42:37 -0700, Erik wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-09-20, Gunner wrote: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:02:03 -0400, Wes wrote: [ ... ] Yes, you are correct. Also connect jumper cables to positive first on both ends, then connect to ground. One battery explosion in one's life makes a believer in battery safety. [ ... ] Batteries explode when sparks ignite hydrogen gas. The ground side will spark just as easily as the postive side if connecting/disconnecting under load. Well ... with jumper cables, the ground connection is supposed to be at a distance from the battery terminals -- somewhere on the chassis. Batteries also explode when you bend over one with the caps off to check the level while you've got a lit cigarette in your mouth, as a friend discovered. Luckily, there was someone, and another working car, to drive him to a hospital to get cleaned up. :-) AFIK -- he still smokes. Enjoy, DoN. As a kid back in the early 70's, I worked at the local Searz auto center installing batteries (amongst other things). I installed many, many, many thousands in the few years I was there. Back then, customers brought their car to the 'battery line' and we installed/checked and or whatever while they milled around and watched. We also did voltage regulators, alternators, the occasional generator (remember those?) starters and related stuff. One night we were swamped with battery installations, and while working with one customer, noticed another checking his electrolyte level with a Bic lighter. Before I could even yell it went off in his face and splashed down several others watching, including a fellow employee who luckily had his back turned. It blew the top off of all six cells which wasn't all that common for battery explosions back in those days... 3 or 4 cells was much more typical. (Why? I couldn't tell you...) The customer with the lighter, other than for a few superficial facial scratches came out relatively unscathed. He was about about 10' from the shop eye washer at the time, and we had him in there flushing away within seconds. None of the other's complained of eye exposure, but use of the shop hose and bathrooms was popular for a while. I heard Searz payed for a lot of clothes and paint over this incident. Today they would have been sued back to the stone age. Were any policies changed after the accident? No. It was business as usual for as long as I worked there, and I remember seeing the same set-up driving by that shop for years afterwards. Amazing. They didn't even mandate the use of safety glasses. Believe it or not, this was the only battery explosion I witnessed, or even heard of that actually happened at our shop! Searz made sure new kids were up to speed with battery safety before being let loose, and it looks like it payed off. Those cable connection and jumper cable procedures, if followed, are actually real world effective. However, maybe once a month or so, a customer showed up with a blown up 'core' battery. Even less often, one would also be sporting facial injuries. Almost all claimed jumper cable use, or the act of battery cable connection/disconnection to be the source of ignition. Erik I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. Gunner "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Automotive question
In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:38:22 -0600, "RJ" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , Gunner Asch wrote: [snip] I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. I would bet on a bad voltage regulator overcharging the battery and thus generating too much hydrogen and oxygen, coupled with a blocked relief vent, so the overpressure popped the top off the battery. Note that the hydrogen and oxygen probably did not ignite, for lack of a spark. Joe Gwinn Internal short/spark. Thats my thinking. There wasnt a bit of dust left anywhere in the engine compartment......I thought the radiator had exploded for the cloud of smoog coming out everywhere Could be. But if there was a real Hydrogen-Oxygen explosion, I am skeptical that there would be any battery left. That's why I opted for a blocked vent. Joe Gwinn |
Automotive question
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:38:22 -0600, "RJ" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , Gunner Asch wrote: [snip] I was driving on the 57 Freeway (So. California) about 5 yrs ago when there was a WHOOMP under the hood, a reverse dent came up on the far front and all the dust under the hood spurted out, at 55mph. Pulling over, I lifted the hood to find the top of my battery missing. Not a shred anywhere to be found. Amp gauge showed normal, and it restarted just fine. I ran as gently as I could to the Autozone, and bought a new battery and installed it in the parking lot. Never could figure out why it went Kaboom!, as everything was normal and nominal and I put another 200,000 miles on the new battery (which is still in the truck and starts it every two weeks. I would bet on a bad voltage regulator overcharging the battery and thus generating too much hydrogen and oxygen, coupled with a blocked relief vent, so the overpressure popped the top off the battery. Note that the hydrogen and oxygen probably did not ignite, for lack of a spark. Joe Gwinn Internal short/spark. Thats my thinking. There wasnt a bit of dust left anywhere in the engine compartment......I thought the radiator had exploded for the cloud of smoog coming out everywhere Could be. But if there was a real Hydrogen-Oxygen explosion, I am skeptical that there would be any battery left. That's why I opted for a blocked vent. Joe Gwinn If it was under normal charging rate there wouldn't be a lot of hydrogen /oxygen mix in there. And it likely wasn't at a real flammable level. So when the broken plate in the battery arced it just popped the top off. I've seen the same thing a few times with batteries in various equipment. If you want to see real fireworks try a shorted battery with low fluid levels that has boiled down. Those make a nice fireball... -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York Life is not like a box of chocolates it's more like a jar of jalapenos- what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow! |
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