From an old friend...


"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."



"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

You might ask your "old friend" to insert the the book name and page
number where he found that info...

I have both of Obama's books here and my eyesight must be fading faster
than I knew because I'm not finding what your old friend says he did.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

You might ask your "old friend" to insert the the book name and page
number where he found that info...

I have both of Obama's books here and my eyesight must be fading faster
than I knew because I'm not finding what your old friend says he did.

You might include this almost-general's name (or service number). It's
much easier to believe someone who's not just an anonymous source...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:33:25 -0500, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

You might ask your "old friend" to insert the the book name and page
number where he found that info...

I have both of Obama's books here and my eyesight must be fading faster
than I knew because I'm not finding what your old friend says he did.

You might include this almost-general's name (or service number). It's
much easier to believe someone who's not just an anonymous source...


Frankly, its none of your business who the messenger was.

What part of Read His Books did you not comprehend?

Did you suffer a stroke, or are you in the terminal stages of BDS?

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch wrote:

Frankly, its none of your business who the messenger was.

Yes, of course. Was really fishing to discover if there was a real
person or whether you were being your own sock puppet. "Unnamed sources"
are hardly ever trustworthy, as you've shown.

What part of Read His Books did you not comprehend?

Actually I'd already read them several times each - which is why I
followed up. Since you post here frequently, I was curious as to whether
the untruth you posted was your own or someone else's.

Did you suffer a stroke, or are you in the terminal stages of BDS?

Just neither as gullible to falsehood nor as easily intimidated as you'd
seem to like. I'll consider my inquiry answered and adjust your
credibility to suit.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Seems like a clever attempt on the part of Democrats, to once more
make Republicans look stupid and dishonest.

i

Morris Dovey wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Frankly, its none of your business who the messenger was.

Yes, of course. Was really fishing to discover if there was a real
person or whether you were being your own sock puppet. "Unnamed sources"
are hardly ever trustworthy, as you've shown.

What part of Read His Books did you not comprehend?

Actually I'd already read them several times each - which is why I
followed up. Since you post here frequently, I was curious as to whether
the untruth you posted was your own or someone else's.

Did you suffer a stroke, or are you in the terminal stages of BDS?

Just neither as gullible to falsehood nor as easily intimidated as you'd
seem to like. I'll consider my inquiry answered and adjust your
credibility to suit.

Don't bother with Gunner when he's being political. He thinks whatever
he's told to think, and doesn't bother with critical thinking. "Truth"
in a political discussion is "a sound Gunner makes that makes you vote
the way Gunner wants".

Last election cycle he told me that I was greedy because I didn't mind
being taxed more if it would benefit everyone -- and I'm not in a low
tax bracket.

Let's repeat:

me: "I'm willing to pay more in taxes than I get back in services,
for the good of all."
Gunner: "You're a greedy so-and-so"

Once again:

me: "I'll give away my wealth"
Gunner: "You greedy @#$%"

I don't know if he gets paid for it or if he just swallows the stories
whole, but don't expect sensible politics from him ever, and certainly
not close to an election.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:36:20 -0500, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Frankly, its none of your business who the messenger was.

Yes, of course. Was really fishing to discover if there was a real
person or whether you were being your own sock puppet. "Unnamed sources"
are hardly ever trustworthy, as you've shown.

What part of Read His Books did you not comprehend?

Actually I'd already read them several times each - which is why I
followed up. Since you post here frequently, I was curious as to whether
the untruth you posted was your own or someone else's.

Did you suffer a stroke, or are you in the terminal stages of BDS?

Just neither as gullible to falsehood nor as easily intimidated as you'd
seem to like. I'll consider my inquiry answered and adjust your
credibility to suit.


Ok Morris (why did your parents name you after a ****ty English car
anyways?) please indicate what is false about the forward?

Your opinon of course doesnt count..please provide cites


"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

What part of Read His Books did you not comprehend?

He *has* read the books and the parts you cite don't seem to be in them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You've made
extraordinary claims, yet the only proof you're being asked for is a
simple reference. Which you don't seem able to provide.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

You might ask your "old friend" to insert the the book name and page
number where he found that info...

I have both of Obama's books here and my eyesight must be fading faster
than I knew because I'm not finding what your old friend says he did.

--
Morris Dovey


My question is what did the old friend say about the state of affairs that
the current president has produced for the country? Doesn't he even know
that things are bad? And does he know that McCain voted about 95% of the
time to support the policies of Bush? If he wants to know his enemy, did he
check to see that McCain's policies, which will be virtually the same as the
ones we have now, are what got us in the mess we're in? Did he notice that
McCain plans to keep us on the same course we've been on for the last seven
years? Apparently, he sees what Obama might do if elected but he seems to
have completely neglected to look at what four more years of the same
policies will do to the country. It looks to me like your "old friend" is
just another right winger who can see every danger in the world that can
happen if a Democrat is in the White House but is blind to the danger of
putting another clone of Bush in office. You wouldn't pay any attention to
someone like that if you had any brains.

Hawke

On 2008-08-26, Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...


"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

This is written in a style that seems to be a little bit undereducated
for such a high ranking genius.

So ask your friend again, what are the page numbers so that we can
check for ourselves.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Aug 26, 2:37 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

You don't REALLY expect anyone to believe your silly nonsense, do you?

Lewis

*****

On Aug 26, 4:46 pm, " wrote:
On Aug 26, 2:37 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:



From an old friend...

"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

You don't REALLY expect anyone to believe your silly nonsense, do you?

Lewis

*****


In various contexts I can find info on each thing stated, or something
very close to it.

Nothing definitive, though. Mostly blurbs on fairly-far-right
websites.

There is a vietnam vet air-force general who does support obama, maybe
this is a mini-swift-boat attempt to counter the supporting general.
(General Merrill "Tony" McPeak)

Not really on either side of this, just speculating.



Dave

From an old friend...

"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

You don't REALLY expect anyone to believe your silly nonsense, do you?

Lewis

*****


In various contexts I can find info on each thing stated, or something
very close to it.

Nothing definitive, though. Mostly blurbs on fairly-far-right
websites.

There is a vietnam vet air-force general who does support obama, maybe
this is a mini-swift-boat attempt to counter the supporting general.
(General Merrill "Tony" McPeak)

Not really on either side of this, just speculating.


There is another ex military man who has just about the exact opposite views
as those expresses by Gunner's "friend". His name is Colonel Andrew J.
Basevich, now a professor of international relations at Boston University.
He's a Vietnam veteran, had a son that was killed in Iraq, and calls himself
"conservative". He has been in opposition to Bush's war on terror for
several years. He supports Obama for president and thinks the current
republican administration has done a horrible job. By the way, for Gummer's
edification, this is information you would call citable.

Hawke

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:46:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 26, 2:37 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

You don't REALLY expect anyone to believe your silly nonsense, do you?

Lewis

*****


I dont care if you do or dont.

Why should I? Its obvious that those Useful Idiots on the Left who
would support him, would support him no matter what

After all...they all want "Change", not that they can define what that
promised "change" is gonna be and who is gonna get ****ed by it.

I didnt forward it to the Bommabots, but to anyone who cared to read
and research for themselves.

Shug..no hair off my ass if you get your panties all in a wad. In
fact..I find it rather amusing, and based on the knee jerk posts so
far..we can clearly detect who the Bommabots are.

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch wrote:

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

That sounds fairly unlikely - but just in case, I have a copy tucked
away at http://www.iedu.com/mrd/Constitution.html so that you'll have a
copy at your fingertips.

There's a related document, the first act of the Continental Congress,
at http://www.iedu.com/mrd/07041776.html - also good to read. :-)

HTH

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Gunner Asch" wrote: (clip) READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF
THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again." (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A more likely scenario would be that we would start returning to the parts
of Constitutional law that have been scrapped by the present adminstration.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:45:53 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote: (clip) READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF
THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again." (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A more likely scenario would be that we would start returning to the parts
of Constitutional law that have been scrapped by the present adminstration.

An ultra leftwinger returning the Constitution back to its original
intent?

Right Leo...and can I interest you in some ocean front property just
east of Phoenix? Make you a hell of a deal. Cash only however.

The Constittution has been the major impediment to virtually EVERY
Liberal agenda since the 60s..and yet you claim the Marxist Barry
Obamassiah is going to return it to the Founders intent......

After all these years incrementally slashing most of it to ribbons, or
legislating work arounds by fiat...suddenly the Left is going to
return it to the Founders intent......

Oh **** yes.

If your claim had the slightest bit of truth in it..Id vote for the
sonobitch myself.

your claim is so bogus Im surprised your computer didnt reject it and
give you the blue screen of death.

Now interpreted another way...Id not be surprised if the Leftists do
return parts of the Constitution back to the way it was before
Bush...before the Left got its ass handed to it for its attempts at
Nanny State building.

Gonna wipe that pesky Heller decision right off the history books,
right? Tax breaks, selling off surplus government lands....giving the
IRA and the ATF their armed gunships back....

Ayup..just what we all need...IRS agents in heavily armed gunships....

You will love it wontcha Leo?

Papers Please! A start up of the Gulag system....say Leo..you do
know you are a Kulack..doncha?

Be damned careful of what you wish for old son....you might get it.

Gunner




"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

I will not dignify your "response" with a reply. Let's see whether I can
stick to my resolve, in the future, not to enter discussions with dishonest
or stupid people.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:28:30 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

I will not dignify your "response" with a reply. Let's see whether I can
stick to my resolve, in the future, not to enter discussions with dishonest
or stupid people.

then we can count on you to not be talking to yourself anymore?

Thank Crom!

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:03:50 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Now interpreted another way...Id not be surprised if the Leftists do
return parts of the Constitution back to the way it was before
Bush...before the Left got its ass handed to it for its attempts at
Nanny State building.

Gonna wipe that pesky Heller decision right off the history books,
right? Tax breaks, selling off surplus government lands....giving the
IRA and the ATF their armed gunships back....

Ayup..just what we all need...IRS agents in heavily armed gunships....

You will love it wontcha Leo?

Papers Please! A start up of the Gulag system....say Leo..you do
know you are a Kulack..doncha?

Be damned careful of what you wish for old son....you might get it.

I wonder if any of those on the left really understand that not
every "anarchy" is a state without a government. Where you cannot
depend on the rule of law, there too is an "anarchy" - a state without
a " structure". Government officials can do as they please, and there
ain't diddly the liberals can do about it. But it isn't limited to
the government, it is also those persons who can collect enough
influence to have the government do their dirty work for them. Maybe
have the IRS investigate their competition. Or maybe OSHA. Or the
EPA. Or Customs. Or the Federal Office of Contract Compliance.

"Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool, hey?"

And the worse part about it is, to quote an old song "freedom is
having nothing left to lose." Google up Solsynitsyn on "how our
hearts burned in the camps" about how they realized that GULAG began
with the accused's compliance with the system.

Crap. When the rednecks and kindred decide they have nothing left to
lose, and "come off the reservation", it will be a bad thing. If you
don't see why it would be a problem, you are fortunate to live in such
a nice world. I would like to live there too, but I'm too old to
believe in fairy tales, or the perfect society here on earth.

Over on misc.survivalism, there is a "What if" thread. What if a NIED
(Nuclear Improvised Explosive Device. If it doesn't have a Government
contract number on it, and isn't delivered by a military means, it is
not a Bomb, but an "improvised explosive device".) is detonated in an
up scaled version of Sept 11th. One thing not being considered is
that every left-liberal political or activist is going to sprout cross
hairs. That is to say, a lot of 'folk' are likely to decide that
seeing as how the Government has been unable to perform it's duty of
keeping the populace safe, the citizenry will have to do the job. And
anyone who objects too strenuously to the simple idea of enforcing
national sovereignty is likely to be considered an enemy agent, if not
an enemy combatant.
And that will be bad. Civil wars usually are. And this is not
going to be a fantasy "the militias will meet the army on the field of
battle, banners flying." while the networks broadcast a play by play.
It will be "wet work". Disinformation, disappearances, disasters.

But the left will get their nanny state, however it will be more of a
police state. All of our rights will be abridged, left right and
other. Surviving "progressives" are likely to find themselves fondly
recalling the days of the Bu****ler Karl Rove Neo-con Theocracy, when
they were merely considered "amusing", and not threats to
civilization. And that is if it goes "well". I seriously do not want
to be trying to recover after that economic downturn.

crud. I was suppose to be in bed an hour ago.

pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them, Selecting a new Them

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:22:39 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:03:50 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Now interpreted another way...Id not be surprised if the Leftists do
return parts of the Constitution back to the way it was before
Bush...before the Left got its ass handed to it for its attempts at
Nanny State building.

Gonna wipe that pesky Heller decision right off the history books,
right? Tax breaks, selling off surplus government lands....giving the
IRA and the ATF their armed gunships back....

Ayup..just what we all need...IRS agents in heavily armed gunships....

You will love it wontcha Leo?

Papers Please! A start up of the Gulag system....say Leo..you do
know you are a Kulack..doncha?

Be damned careful of what you wish for old son....you might get it.

I wonder if any of those on the left really understand that not
every "anarchy" is a state without a government. Where you cannot
depend on the rule of law, there too is an "anarchy" - a state without
a " structure". Government officials can do as they please, and there
ain't diddly the liberals can do about it. But it isn't limited to
the government, it is also those persons who can collect enough
influence to have the government do their dirty work for them. Maybe
have the IRS investigate their competition. Or maybe OSHA. Or the
EPA. Or Customs. Or the Federal Office of Contract Compliance.

"Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool, hey?"

And the worse part about it is, to quote an old song "freedom is
having nothing left to lose." Google up Solsynitsyn on "how our
hearts burned in the camps" about how they realized that GULAG began
with the accused's compliance with the system.

Crap. When the rednecks and kindred decide they have nothing left to
lose, and "come off the reservation", it will be a bad thing. If you
don't see why it would be a problem, you are fortunate to live in such
a nice world. I would like to live there too, but I'm too old to
believe in fairy tales, or the perfect society here on earth.

Over on misc.survivalism, there is a "What if" thread. What if a NIED
(Nuclear Improvised Explosive Device. If it doesn't have a Government
contract number on it, and isn't delivered by a military means, it is
not a Bomb, but an "improvised explosive device".) is detonated in an
up scaled version of Sept 11th. One thing not being considered is
that every left-liberal political or activist is going to sprout cross
hairs. That is to say, a lot of 'folk' are likely to decide that
seeing as how the Government has been unable to perform it's duty of
keeping the populace safe, the citizenry will have to do the job. And
anyone who objects too strenuously to the simple idea of enforcing
national sovereignty is likely to be considered an enemy agent, if not
an enemy combatant.
And that will be bad. Civil wars usually are. And this is not
going to be a fantasy "the militias will meet the army on the field of
battle, banners flying." while the networks broadcast a play by play.
It will be "wet work". Disinformation, disappearances, disasters.

But the left will get their nanny state, however it will be more of a
police state. All of our rights will be abridged, left right and
other. Surviving "progressives" are likely to find themselves fondly
recalling the days of the Bu****ler Karl Rove Neo-con Theocracy, when
they were merely considered "amusing", and not threats to
civilization. And that is if it goes "well". I seriously do not want
to be trying to recover after that economic downturn.

crud. I was suppose to be in bed an hour ago.

pyotr

I wonder if Leo and his brothers and sisters on the far left, have
ever read Unintended Consequences, by John Ross?

Evidently not.

They really should.

Gunner


"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch wrote:

I wonder if Leo and his brothers and sisters on the far left, have
ever read Unintended Consequences, by John Ross?

Evidently not.

They really should.


An absolutely fantastic book. I keep that one on the main book shelf next to Ayn Rand's
Atlas Shrugged.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:15:09 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

But the left will get their nanny state, however it will be more of a
police state. All of our rights will be abridged, left right and
other. Surviving "progressives" are likely to find themselves fondly
recalling the days of the Bu****ler Karl Rove Neo-con Theocracy, when
they were merely considered "amusing", and not threats to
civilization. And that is if it goes "well". I seriously do not want
to be trying to recover after that economic downturn.

crud. I was suppose to be in bed an hour ago.

pyotr

I wonder if Leo and his brothers and sisters on the far left, have
ever read Unintended Consequences, by John Ross?

Evidently not.

They really should.

They should read history. The Weimar Republic was denounced by
various liberals as being too oppressive. So it was replaced by a
really repressive regime - the Third Empire. Interesting, the French
number their Republics, the German's their Empires. Speaking of the
French, it is also interesting to note that Gilbert du Motier (Marquis
de Lafayette (who renounced his title _before_ the revolution) found
himself forced to flee France as a dangerous reactionary, and when he
arrived in Leige, was promptly arrested by the Austrians as a
'dangerous revolutionary.' (His is a story of getting what one didn't
bargain for.)
After the Tsar's abdication, lots of people thought provisional
Government under Kerensky was bad for Russia, then the Bolsheviks
provided the Russian people a _real_ excuse to drink.
Then we can look at Prohibition. A good intention - to curb
alcoholism in the US. Instead, it made binge drinking acceptable, not
to mention funneling large amounts of cash into the hands of the
smugglers. Arnold R... can't remember his last name. was approached
to back a small venture to smuggle a boat load of hooch in. He came
back with a counter proposal to do it 'wholesale', for a percentage.
The rest is, as they say "history." Al Capone, Eliot Ness, Meyer
Lansky, NFA 1934, Vegas, Havana, the Kaufman hearings, and Robert
Kennedy getting a little legal experience going after mobsters in the
sixties. Not to mention the war on some drugs, yada, yada, yada.

I get real worried when people start saying "Somebody ought to do
something." Because Somebody(tm) will, and it probably won't be what
people really wanted, or even thought they wanted.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Most of the intelligentsia haven't studied history, so much
as they've absorbed the Correct Position on "History".

On Aug 27, 5:37 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gosh Gunner - what startling and disturbing news!. Thank you for
drawing it to the worlds attention by posting in a usenet forum.
Thankfully, there are people like The General who can read his books
and see, in black and white, what everyone else who has read them
missed - (its a liberal conspiracy, obviously)

I, my family, and indeed the rest of the world can sleep peacefully
tonight, knowing that a person of The Generals ability is in charge of
military operations and that he will direct the Awesome Military Power
of the United States against the enemies of Freedom and Democracy....

I can say no more, choked as I am with gratitude for knowing that
people such as The General are in charge and controlling the worlds
destiny.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:28:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Aug 27, 5:37 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
From an old friend...

"Here is a note sent to myself and other current and former Special
Forces guys by one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in. He
elected to retire and has been working for the Special Operations
Command as a very highly ranked civilian ever since, influencing many
top secret projects for the better. A very intelligent, practical and
down to earth individual. And a very, very good personal friend of
both xxxxx xxxxxx

begin msg:

I don't care if he was born on Mars, and Michelle is a
reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and Torquemada is his minister, read
his books. Then remember what they taught us in Special Forces, "know
thy opposition". So go do it - read his books! When you get to the
part about the $2800 National Property tax if your house is worth more
than $125,000 and the $1000 tax payment by each family to the UN
Global Fund. Read the part about the return to the 70% tax rate and
the return to the capital gains tax that will dry up all investment,
and the death tax that will force your family to sell your farm,
business or house to pay the IRS.

Oh, and then read Michelle's plan (endorsed by Obama) for the
reparations we have to pay to all the descendents of slaves.

Oh, and then read the chapter on his proposed National Police Force
that will equal the Armed Forces in power and will be manned by
National Service (read forced service or Draft) required of all
graduating High school students and which reports only to the
President. Remember Herr Hitler and his Brown Shirts?

READ HIS BOOKS, THEN READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA. If Obama gets elected, the Constitution goes away, never to
be heard of again."

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gosh Gunner - what startling and disturbing news!. Thank you for
drawing it to the worlds attention by posting in a usenet forum.
Thankfully, there are people like The General who can read his books
and see, in black and white, what everyone else who has read them
missed - (its a liberal conspiracy, obviously)

I, my family, and indeed the rest of the world can sleep peacefully
tonight, knowing that a person of The Generals ability is in charge of
military operations and that he will direct the Awesome Military Power
of the United States against the enemies of Freedom and Democracy....

I can say no more, choked as I am with gratitude for knowing that
people such as The General are in charge and controlling the worlds
destiny.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Evidently your reading comprehension issues are as yet, unrresolved.
Pity. What general were you referring to?

I failed to see any in the forwarded message.

Or is this your attempt at jocularity and buffoonery?

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Aug 27, 1:09 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:28:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 27, 5:37 am, Gunner Asch wrote:




Evidently your reading comprehension issues are as yet, unrresolved.
Pity. What general were you referring to?

I failed to see any in the forwarded message.

Or is this your attempt at jocularity and buffoonery?

Gunner

I quote (you)

one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in.

Me, a buffoon - surely you jest Gunner - my comments were most
sincere. Its a pity that such important news has to be relayed via a
trailer in the deserts of California....if you have any more startling
news please, let us know..the world needs to know whats going on.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Evidently your reading comprehension issues are as yet, unrresolved.
Pity. What general were you referring to?

I failed to see any in the forwarded message.

Or is this your attempt at jocularity and buffoonery?

Gunner

I quote (you)

one of our most experienced and respected Officers - a
full Colonel - who was offered General if he would stay in.

Me, a buffoon - surely you jest Gunner - my comments were most
sincere. Its a pity that such important news has to be relayed via a
trailer in the deserts of California....if you have any more startling
news please, let us know..the world needs to know whats going on.....

Andrew VK3BFA.


Come on, are you saying that just because Gummer is an idiotic weirdo living
in the desert of Kern County his message is not to be believed? I think you
can blame that on how scared the right wingers are of the dreaded Democrats?
Why, it's driving them to fantasy. They are terrified of all the disasters
that will befall the country if those dastardly Democrats get power. Uh,
wait a minute, didn't the Democrats control the congress for 40 years and
didn't they dominate the country all during WWII? You would think having
Democrats in charge is something that has never happened and we should fear
it like nothing else. Not like what just happened in the last eight years
though, right? It's funny, these nuts have all these dire fantasies about
how horrible it will be for Democrats to be in power but the record is that
when they are the country does much better than when republicans are in
charge. It's like they are completely unaware of the string of disasters
that have come under republican rule. Starting with not preventing the 9/11
attacks, moving into Katrina, then into the credit crunch, the housing price
collapse, the 20% drop in the stock market, and on to a couple of wars that
seem to have no end, just to name a few. They gloss over all these
"disasters" as if they mean nothing and are so good as to warn us as to the
danger of Democratic majorities. Well folks, I've seen both and I'll take
the Democrats any day of the week. But then I'm not prone to fantasies.

Hawke