Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.

I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying
to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went
around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises.

The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good
sign.

But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the
motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the
back and the rear fan guard.

I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.

So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put
together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together
correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the
wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump.

--
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to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way?

i

On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote:
Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.

I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying
to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went
around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises.

The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good
sign.

But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the
motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the
back and the rear fan guard.

I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.

So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put
together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together
correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the
wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump.


--
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to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

"Ignoramus20633" wrote in message
...
Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way?

i

On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote:
Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.

I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying
to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went
around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises.

the extra current is most likely from the start winding remaining engaged,
not from being the wrong sized motor for the compressor - double check your
wiring, including the capacitor, etc, make sure the caps are good, etc


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote:
Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way?

wrong track, no, the motor is overloaded in any case and by a lot.

At higher pressure, it is 36-38 amps with 25 amps rating.

i

i

On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote:
Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.

I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying
to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went
around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises.

The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good
sign.

But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the
motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the
back and the rear fan guard.

I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.

So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put
together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together
correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the
wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump.



--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-15, William Noble wrote:

"Ignoramus20633" wrote in message
...
Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way?

i

On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote:
Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.

I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying
to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went
around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises.

the extra current is most likely from the start winding remaining engaged,
not from being the wrong sized motor for the compressor - double check your
wiring, including the capacitor, etc, make sure the caps are good, etc

That would be easy to check tomorrow, is there any AC voltage on
starting caps during running. Right?
--
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

Do you hear the starting switch opening after startup? Or clicking
closed after shutdown. Removing the load by removing the bely will
make the atarting switch easier to hear. At the current readings you
report there is a strong probability that the starting circuit and/or
running winding has a problem.

Bob AZ

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:06:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob AZ
wrote:


I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

Do you hear the starting switch opening after startup? Or clicking
closed after shutdown. Removing the load by removing the bely will
make the atarting switch easier to hear. At the current readings you
report there is a strong probability that the starting circuit and/or
running winding has a problem.

Bob AZ
If the start winding is constantly energized the motor will get hot
even if run without a load. So you could remove the belt and run the
motor unloaded and see if gets hot.
ERS

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

Fix the original problem before you burn up the motor. The vibration is
caused by the motor fighting itself. You stated you have end play. Have you
fixed it? If you have a start switch, please disassemble the motor and check
it out. It will only take an hour. Then and ony then will you have
confidence of the motor internally.
Steve

"Ignoramus20633" wrote in message
...
Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.

I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying
to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went
around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises.

The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good
sign.

But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the
motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the
back and the rear fan guard.

I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.

So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put
together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together
correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the
wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their
inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote:


If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.


drop the pump pully 1" in diameter

frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in.

2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.


Gunner

at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars
exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar"
* * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote:


If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.

drop the pump pully 1" in diameter

Drop the pump pulley??? That would spin the pump faster and load the
already undersized motor more. Surely you meant to drop the motor pulley
size.

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote:


If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.


drop the pump pully 1" in diameter

frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in.

Like we (you) did with your swamp cooler that day?


2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.

Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for
the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason.
It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.)

--
Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a nobler art of
leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination
of nonessentials. -- Lin Yutang

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-15, Bob AZ wrote:

I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33
amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp.

Do you hear the starting switch opening after startup? Or clicking
closed after shutdown. Removing the load by removing the bely will
make the atarting switch easier to hear. At the current readings you
report there is a strong probability that the starting circuit and/or
running winding has a problem.

I just checked carefully again.

1. When unloaded (no belts connected) the motor starts and runs
strong

2. The start windings cut out right after startup and remain
disengaged.

3. When LOADED (connected to pump) the motor bogs down a lot, kind of
runs in "fits". Then the start winding cuts in periodically, as it
should.

This explains high running current, but basically, the motor is not
big enough for this 4 cylinder pump.

That's the bottom line.

In some ways it is good news. I mean, the pump is better than
expected. And the motor is totally fine now.

--
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote:


If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.


drop the pump pully 1" in diameter

frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in.

Like we (you) did with your swamp cooler that day?


2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.

Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for
the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason.
It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.)


Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see
if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a
special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day
and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on
ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its
potential of whole 7.5 HP.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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posting on Usenet.
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

"Ignoramus25555" wrote in message
...

This explains high running current, but basically, the motor is not
big enough for this 4 cylinder pump.

So change one pulley or the other to slow the pump down just below 5 HP. You
probably don't need 7.5 HP worth of air anyhow.

Vaughn

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-15, Vaughn Simon wrote:

"Ignoramus25555" wrote in message
...

This explains high running current, but basically, the motor is not
big enough for this 4 cylinder pump.

So change one pulley or the other to slow the pump down just below 5 HP. You
probably don't need 7.5 HP worth of air anyhow.

I do not need this compressor. I have a good vertical compressor. A
horizontal is a waste of space. I will fix it and sell it.

I sat on it a little, and decided to do as you said, get a smaller
pulley and be done with it.

The current pulley is 6", I will get a McMaster 4.55" OD pulley.
--
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 05:00:08 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote:


If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.

drop the pump pully 1" in diameter

Drop the pump pulley??? That would spin the pump faster and load the
already undersized motor more. Surely you meant to drop the motor pulley
size.


Mea culpa...motor pulley...i was tired...its been 105F and doing work
outside is tiring

Gunner

at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars
exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar"
* * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:33:56 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus25555 quickly quoth:

On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.

Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for
the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason.
It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.)


Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see
if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a
special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day
and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on
ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its
potential of whole 7.5 HP.

Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the
motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. I firmly
belive that a different motor is in order, Ig.

--
Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a nobler art of
leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination
of nonessentials. -- Lin Yutang

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-16, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:33:56 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus25555 quickly quoth:

On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.

Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for
the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason.
It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.)


Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see
if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a
special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day
and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on
ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its
potential of whole 7.5 HP.

Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the
motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. I firmly
belive that a different motor is in order, Ig.


I will call Champion (now a division of Gardner Denver) to find out
the min and max horsepower and RPM of this pump. I hope that there is
still someone who can remember 1965 when this pump was made.

I think that it is a 10 HP pump. I have never seen smaller 4 cylinder
pumps. But maybe I am wrong. Wayne said that he saw it on a 7.5 HP
compressor, but maybe the pump was not used at max speed.

i

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On 2008-06-16, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:33:56 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus25555 quickly quoth:

On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.

Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for
the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason.
It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.)


Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see
if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a
special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day
and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on
ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its
potential of whole 7.5 HP.

Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the
motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. I firmly
belive that a different motor is in order, Ig.


I think that it is a 10 HP pump, I have never seen smaller 4 cylinder
2 stage pumps -- but maybe I am wrong. Wayne says that he saw it on a
7.5 HP compressor, but perhaps it was not spun at full speed. I will
call Champion, which is now a division of Gardner Denver,to see if
there is anyone who knows anything about this 1965 pump. So I will
know more tomorrow.

I should also call Baldor to find out the front bearing. This is deja
vu as I already swapped bearings on a similar 5 HP motor, though it
was in 215T frame.

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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

Larry Jaques wrote:
Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the
motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. ...

Are you sure? It seems to me:
motor load = its speed x torque
torque = pulley radius x belt tension
belt tension = pump torque / pump pulley radius

load = speed x pulley radius x pump torque / pump pulley radius

The only way that motor load isn't a linear function of its pulley size
is if the pump torque isn't constant with its speed. I.e., if pump
torque goes *up* as its speed goes down.

Am I missing something,
Bob

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 07:13:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote:


If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 =
1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly
so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it
got so hot.

This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a
7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor,
or a slow 5 HP motor.


drop the pump pully 1" in diameter

frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in.

Like we (you) did with your swamp cooler that day?

exactly!




2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it
squeeks..belt dressing is cheap.

Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for
the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason.
It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.)


at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars
exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar"
* * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal

Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
 

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Am I missing something,

No

Vaughn