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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters.
I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises. The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good sign. But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the back and the rear fan guard. I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way?
i On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote: Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters. I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises. The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good sign. But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the back and the rear fan guard. I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
"Ignoramus20633" wrote in message news Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way? i On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote: Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters. I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises. the extra current is most likely from the start winding remaining engaged, not from being the wrong sized motor for the compressor - double check your wiring, including the capacitor, etc, make sure the caps are good, etc ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote:
Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way? wrong track, no, the motor is overloaded in any case and by a lot. At higher pressure, it is 36-38 amps with 25 amps rating. i i On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote: Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters. I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises. The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good sign. But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the back and the rear fan guard. I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-15, William Noble wrote:
"Ignoramus20633" wrote in message news Or maybe I wired the run capacitor the wrong way? i On 2008-06-15, Ignoramus20633 wrote: Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters. I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises. the extra current is most likely from the start winding remaining engaged, not from being the wrong sized motor for the compressor - double check your wiring, including the capacitor, etc, make sure the caps are good, etc That would be easy to check tomorrow, is there any AC voltage on starting caps during running. Right? -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. Do you hear the starting switch opening after startup? Or clicking closed after shutdown. Removing the load by removing the bely will make the atarting switch easier to hear. At the current readings you report there is a strong probability that the starting circuit and/or running winding has a problem. Bob AZ |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:06:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob AZ
wrote: I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. Do you hear the starting switch opening after startup? Or clicking closed after shutdown. Removing the load by removing the bely will make the atarting switch easier to hear. At the current readings you report there is a strong probability that the starting circuit and/or running winding has a problem. Bob AZ If the start winding is constantly energized the motor will get hot even if run without a load. So you could remove the belt and run the motor unloaded and see if gets hot. ERS |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
Fix the original problem before you burn up the motor. The vibration is
caused by the motor fighting itself. You stated you have end play. Have you fixed it? If you have a start switch, please disassemble the motor and check it out. It will only take an hour. Then and ony then will you have confidence of the motor internally. Steve "Ignoramus20633" wrote in message ... Moved it into the garage since it is now on casters. I added a pressure gauge and pumped the tank to 21 PSI. (just trying to stay safe). I will see how it will look in the morning. I went around the compressor and did not hear any hissing or bubbling noises. The drain was open, I had to close it, which I consider to be a good sign. But here's something else. From just a few minutes of running, the motor got rather hot, despite having a proper fan installed in the back and the rear fan guard. I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. So, while nothing is really wrong with the components that were put together by some previous owner, the "stuff" does not fit together correctly. It was very fortunate that that guy could not finish the wiring job and did not burn the motor out trying to run this pump. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633
wrote: If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. drop the pump pully 1" in diameter frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in. 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Gunner at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar" * * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
Gunner Asch wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633 wrote: If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. drop the pump pully 1" in diameter Drop the pump pulley??? That would spin the pump faster and load the already undersized motor more. Surely you meant to drop the motor pulley size. |
#11
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633 wrote: If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. drop the pump pully 1" in diameter frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in. Like we (you) did with your swamp cooler that day? 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason. It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.) -- Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a nobler art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of nonessentials. -- Lin Yutang |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-15, Bob AZ wrote:
I measured the AC current going to the motor. The current was 33 amp. The motor is rated at 25 amp. Do you hear the starting switch opening after startup? Or clicking closed after shutdown. Removing the load by removing the bely will make the atarting switch easier to hear. At the current readings you report there is a strong probability that the starting circuit and/or running winding has a problem. I just checked carefully again. 1. When unloaded (no belts connected) the motor starts and runs strong 2. The start windings cut out right after startup and remain disengaged. 3. When LOADED (connected to pump) the motor bogs down a lot, kind of runs in "fits". Then the start winding cuts in periodically, as it should. This explains high running current, but basically, the motor is not big enough for this 4 cylinder pump. That's the bottom line. In some ways it is good news. I mean, the pump is better than expected. And the motor is totally fine now. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633 wrote: If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. drop the pump pully 1" in diameter frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in. Like we (you) did with your swamp cooler that day? 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason. It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.) Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its potential of whole 7.5 HP. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#14
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
"Ignoramus25555" wrote in message ... This explains high running current, but basically, the motor is not big enough for this 4 cylinder pump. So change one pulley or the other to slow the pump down just below 5 HP. You probably don't need 7.5 HP worth of air anyhow. Vaughn |
#15
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-15, Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Ignoramus25555" wrote in message ... This explains high running current, but basically, the motor is not big enough for this 4 cylinder pump. So change one pulley or the other to slow the pump down just below 5 HP. You probably don't need 7.5 HP worth of air anyhow. I do not need this compressor. I have a good vertical compressor. A horizontal is a waste of space. I will fix it and sell it. I sat on it a little, and decided to do as you said, get a smaller pulley and be done with it. The current pulley is 6", I will get a McMaster 4.55" OD pulley. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 05:00:08 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633 wrote: If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. drop the pump pully 1" in diameter Drop the pump pulley??? That would spin the pump faster and load the already undersized motor more. Surely you meant to drop the motor pulley size. Mea culpa...motor pulley...i was tired...its been 105F and doing work outside is tiring Gunner at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar" * * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:33:56 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus25555 quickly quoth: On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason. It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.) Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its potential of whole 7.5 HP. Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. I firmly belive that a different motor is in order, Ig. -- Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a nobler art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of nonessentials. -- Lin Yutang |
#18
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-16, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:33:56 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus25555 quickly quoth: On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason. It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.) Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its potential of whole 7.5 HP. Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. I firmly belive that a different motor is in order, Ig. I will call Champion (now a division of Gardner Denver) to find out the min and max horsepower and RPM of this pump. I hope that there is still someone who can remember 1965 when this pump was made. I think that it is a 10 HP pump. I have never seen smaller 4 cylinder pumps. But maybe I am wrong. Wayne said that he saw it on a 7.5 HP compressor, but maybe the pump was not used at max speed. i -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#19
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On 2008-06-16, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:33:56 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus25555 quickly quoth: On 2008-06-15, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason. It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.) Yep. Four belts, the compressor is indeed unexpectedly BAM. I will see if I can buy the smaller pulley at McMaster (they offer pulleys with a special hub tightener). If I order on Monday, I will get it next day and I can be done on Tuesday and will be able to put it up on ebay. However, the compressor would not be running up to its potential of whole 7.5 HP. Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. I firmly belive that a different motor is in order, Ig. I think that it is a 10 HP pump, I have never seen smaller 4 cylinder 2 stage pumps -- but maybe I am wrong. Wayne says that he saw it on a 7.5 HP compressor, but perhaps it was not spun at full speed. I will call Champion, which is now a division of Gardner Denver,to see if there is anyone who knows anything about this 1965 pump. So I will know more tomorrow. I should also call Baldor to find out the front bearing. This is deja vu as I already swapped bearings on a similar 5 HP motor, though it was in 215T frame. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
#20
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
Larry Jaques wrote:
Although a smaller pulley will -somewhat- reduce the load on the motor, it will -primarily- just reduce the pump speed. ... Are you sure? It seems to me: motor load = its speed x torque torque = pulley radius x belt tension belt tension = pump torque / pump pulley radius load = speed x pulley radius x pump torque / pump pulley radius The only way that motor load isn't a linear function of its pulley size is if the pump torque isn't constant with its speed. I.e., if pump torque goes *up* as its speed goes down. Am I missing something, Bob |
#21
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 07:13:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:21:20 -0500, Ignoramus20633 wrote: If the heat losses are R*I^2, then the motor was producing (33/25)^2 = 1.74 times the heat that it was designed for, and turned more slowly so it could not move as much air as it was designed to. That's why it got so hot. This leads me to believe that Wayne was right (as usual) and this is a 7.5 HP pump and not a 5 HP pump. It definitely needs a 7.5 HP motor, or a slow 5 HP motor. drop the pump pully 1" in diameter frankly..as Bruce said..get an adjustable pully and dial it in. Like we (you) did with your swamp cooler that day? exactly! 2 belts is nice..but often not necessary on a compressor. if it squeeks..belt dressing is cheap. Ooh, bite your tongue, boy. Belt dressing is a salve, not a cure for the original problem. His compressor has FOUR belts for a reason. It's a BAM. (Ayup, that stands for BigAss Muthuh.) at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar" * * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal |
#22
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Compressor -- the pump is likely 7.5 HP as Wayne said
"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message ... Am I missing something, No Vaughn |
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