Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?

Best Regards
Tom.

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?

Best Regards
Tom.

Holy cripes. That's one tough dude.

I don't have any machine tool stories, but you know about the guy who got
drunk and took a girl home, woke up and got a look at her, and gnawed his
arm off so he could leave without waking her up, right?

--
Ed Huntress

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?

Best Regards
Tom.




No, but my Dad, himself a farmer, knew a farmer who lost an arm in a corn
picker (not all
that uncommon an occurance). But three or four years later, this guy lost
the other arm in
the same picker...

Jerry

azotic wrote:
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?
We had a guy here running a brake lathe on Sunday to catch up on
the backlog. Since he was the only one there, he didn't turn on
the heat, and kept his leater jacket on - no need to go into all
the details, but it was slowly pulling him in, he couldn't reach
the off switch, couldn't rip the jacket, he was really in a fix.
I think he finally spotted something he could reach with his
free hand, like a wrench, and was able to whack the off switch
and then cut the jacket loose. Didn't have to lose his arm, but
must have been a mass of bruises.

One amazing story that was picked up on the national news some
years ago was a kid who was working on his parent's farm, alone,
while everybody else was off to church or something. It might
have been a corn harvester or something with lots of rollers.
it pulled him in and ripped both his arms off. he walked to the
house, opened the door with his teeth and then dialed the phone
with a pencil in his mouth. I think they got his arms out of
the machine and reattached them, and he was slowly regaining the
use of them.

Jon

azotic wrote:
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?
I've heard lots of machine shop "could have"s, like the guy who
seized up the punch in an OBI punch press, the keyway on the
flywheel sheared, and all the guys in the shop took off running.
The flywheel eventually spun itself off the shaft, skidded on
the floor for a while and then went through the wall! One
wonders if the shop owner (my friend's dad) had planned there to
be a blank space where that flywheel would have gone out.

I remember another about a guy who had just put a long shaft in
a turning center, and got called away for something. He lost
his place in the setup, and didn't realize the control was set
for high speed, and started the spindle. Well, he had a 1" bar
3 foot long or something bend at the back of the spindle and
start flailing at 3000 RPM! YIKES! It tore the back end of the
machine off, but that was just shroud and not terribly expensive
to fix.

We had a guy at work tip over a LeBlond Toolroom Precision 13"
lathe on his leg, and had to have it amputated. It was all
blocked up in a sloping passageway waiting for a broker to pick
it up. I actually walked by the thing and thought to myself
"Gee, that is in a REALLY tough position, but I guess the broker
will bring his own riggers to get it out, so it isn't our
problem." Well, the broker arrived with a truck, and our shop
guys set up our rickety forklift to move it, and things went bad!

There have been a number of gruesome accidents written about on
this list, I remember one, I think a vertical mill that caught
the workpiece and embedded it in the machinist's belly!

Cranes and overhead loads are always a potential source for real
disaster, and then there's iron foundries! Yikes! We have a
couple in the area (fewer now than in the '60s) and there are
always the stories of the dropped ladle or the skull that cracks
prematurely, and everybody is running from a rapidly swelling
lake of molten iron/steel. It makes your skin crawl just to
read about it in the paper!

Jon

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:56:19 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"azotic" wrote in message
...
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?

Best Regards
Tom.

Holy cripes. That's one tough dude.

I don't have any machine tool stories, but you know about the guy who got
drunk and took a girl home, woke up and got a look at her, and gnawed his
arm off so he could leave without waking her up, right?

She's what's called "Coyote Ugly", Ed.

But beat my nightmare last night.

Last night I had a nightmare. A really bad one. It was a terrible
nightmare, the most horrible one you could imagine. In the nightmare
I found myself nude in bed, and I was looking at a mirror on the
ceiling, and I discovered that I am a Negro, and I'm circumcised!

Quickly I jumped up, found my pants and looked in the pockets to find
my driver license photo - and it was that same color. Black. No, no,
God no, it can't be!! I felt myself being very depressed, downcast,
sitting in a chair. But it's a wheelchair!! That means, of course,
besides being black and Jewish, I'm also disabled!!!

I said to myself, aloud "This is impossible. It's impossible that I
should be black and Jewish and disabled." "It's the pure and holy
truth", whispers someone from behind me. I turn around, and it's m y
boyfriend. Just what I needed!!! I am a homosexual whore and on top
of that with a Mexican boyfriend.

Oh, my God..... Black, Jewish, disabled, gay, with a Mexican
boyfriend, drug addict, and HIV-positive!!! Desperate, I begin to
shout, cry, pull my hair, and OH, noooooo... I'm Bald!!!

The telephone rings. It's my brother. He is saying, "Since mom and
dad died the only thing you do is hang out, take drugs, and laze
around all day doing nothing. Get a job you worthless piece of crap..
Any job."

Mom?... Dad?... Nooooooooo... Now I'm also an unemployed orphan! I
try to explain to my brother how hard it is to find a job when you are
black, Jewish, disabled, gay with a Mexican boyfriend, are a drug
addict, HIV-positive, bald, and an orphan. But he doesn't get it.
Frustrated, I hang up.

It's then I realize I only have one hand!!! With tears in my eyes I
go to the win dow to look out. I see I live in a shanty-town full of
cardboard and tin houses! There is trash everywhere. Suddenly I feel
a sharp pain near my pacemaker....Pacemaker? Besides being black,
Jewish, disabled, a fairy with a Mexican boyfriend, a drug addict,
HIV-positive, bald, orphaned, unemployed, an invalid with one hand,
and having a bad heart, I live in a ****ty neighborhood.

At that very moment my boyfriend approaches and says to me, "Sweetie
pie, my love, my little black heartthrob, have you decided who are you
going to vote for next November? Hillary or Obama?"

Sonofabitch! Say it isn't so!!! I can handle being a black disabled
one armed drug addicted Jewish queer on a Pacemaker who is HIV
positive, bald, orphaned, unemployed, lives in a slum, and has a
Mexican boyfriend, but _please_ don't tell me I'm a Democrat!!!!

--
"Given the low level of competence among politicians,
every American should become a Libertarian."
-- Charley Reese, Alameda Times-Star (California), June 17, 2003

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:56:19 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"azotic" wrote in message
...
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...7&provider=top

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?

Best Regards
Tom.

Holy cripes. That's one tough dude.

I don't have any machine tool stories, but you know about the guy who got
drunk and took a girl home, woke up and got a look at her, and gnawed his
arm off so he could leave without waking her up, right?

She's what's called "Coyote Ugly", Ed.

But beat my nightmare last night.

Last night I had a nightmare. A really bad one. It was a terrible
nightmare, the most horrible one you could imagine. In the nightmare
I found myself nude in bed, and I was looking at a mirror on the
ceiling, and I discovered that I am a Negro, and I'm circumcised!

Quickly I jumped up, found my pants and looked in the pockets to find
my driver license photo - and it was that same color. Black. No, no,
God no, it can't be!! I felt myself being very depressed, downcast,
sitting in a chair. But it's a wheelchair!! That means, of course,
besides being black and Jewish, I'm also disabled!!!

I said to myself, aloud "This is impossible. It's impossible that I
should be black and Jewish and disabled." "It's the pure and holy
truth", whispers someone from behind me. I turn around, and it's m y
boyfriend. Just what I needed!!! I am a homosexual whore and on top
of that with a Mexican boyfriend.

Oh, my God..... Black, Jewish, disabled, gay, with a Mexican
boyfriend, drug addict, and HIV-positive!!! Desperate, I begin to
shout, cry, pull my hair, and OH, noooooo... I'm Bald!!!

The telephone rings. It's my brother. He is saying, "Since mom and
dad died the only thing you do is hang out, take drugs, and laze
around all day doing nothing. Get a job you worthless piece of crap..
Any job."

Mom?... Dad?... Nooooooooo... Now I'm also an unemployed orphan! I
try to explain to my brother how hard it is to find a job when you are
black, Jewish, disabled, gay with a Mexican boyfriend, are a drug
addict, HIV-positive, bald, and an orphan. But he doesn't get it.
Frustrated, I hang up.

It's then I realize I only have one hand!!! With tears in my eyes I
go to the win dow to look out. I see I live in a shanty-town full of
cardboard and tin houses! There is trash everywhere. Suddenly I feel
a sharp pain near my pacemaker....Pacemaker? Besides being black,
Jewish, disabled, a fairy with a Mexican boyfriend, a drug addict,
HIV-positive, bald, orphaned, unemployed, an invalid with one hand,
and having a bad heart, I live in a ****ty neighborhood.

At that very moment my boyfriend approaches and says to me, "Sweetie
pie, my love, my little black heartthrob, have you decided who are you
going to vote for next November? Hillary or Obama?"

Sonofabitch! Say it isn't so!!! I can handle being a black disabled
one armed drug addicted Jewish queer on a Pacemaker who is HIV
positive, bald, orphaned, unemployed, lives in a slum, and has a
Mexican boyfriend, but _please_ don't tell me I'm a Democrat!!!!

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you if a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you if a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

All you democrats think alike, don't you?

--
"Given the low level of competence among politicians,
every American should become a Libertarian."
-- Charley Reese, Alameda Times-Star (California), June 17, 2003

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you if
a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

All you democrats think alike, don't you?

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind, not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

A couple of Loggers were working here a few years back, trying to light the
slash piles in wet weather. Employee dumps gas on a pile, waits a while,
tosses a lit stob on and WHOOF, Serious burns. The boss takes him to the
hospital. 4 hours later, the boss gets hauled in with serious burns.

Worst i did was step into the back of a Beetle with one foot to lift out the
battery, foot went thru the rust floor and the torn metal formed a nice trap
for my boot. I had to have someone jack up the car and unlace my boot to get
my foot out.
Lots of little stuff, bits of carbide under the skin etc, thank god for
safety glasses.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

"Jerry Foster" wrote in message
et...

No, but my Dad, himself a farmer, knew a farmer who lost an arm in a corn
picker (not all
that uncommon an occurance). But three or four years later, this guy lost
the other arm in
the same picker...


Guess he decided to keep farming till it was all gone.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Stupendous Man wrote:

Worst i did was step into the back of a Beetle with one foot to lift out the
battery, foot went thru the rust floor and the torn metal formed a nice trap
for my boot. I had to have someone jack up the car and unlace my boot to get
my foot out.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

You forgot: Destroyer of Beetles. ;-)


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind, not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)


I've lost track of what a RealRepublican(TM) or a RealDemocrat(TM) is.

What are their similarities?
What are their differences?

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind,
not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)


I've lost track of what a RealRepublican(TM) or a RealDemocrat(TM) is.

What are their similarities?
What are their differences?

Wes

Democrats usually have more hair, but Republicans don't split infinitives
nor end sentences with prepositions. Democrats have more fun but Republicans
have better 401Ks.

Republicans have bigger cars or trucks. They buy more Metamucil. Democrats
buy more pasta.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you if
a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

All you democrats think alike, don't you?

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind, not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)

You keep saying that. Why do many of us not quite believe you along
that line, Ed? (Clue: You often sound more like a Democrat than a
Republican.)

I was a registered Republican for my first 30 voting years, then they
changed, were corrupted (even further?) sigh In any case, though
registered, I didn't always vote the party line. I voted for whomever
I thought would do the best job.

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

--
"Given the low level of competence among politicians,
every American should become a Libertarian."
-- Charley Reese, Alameda Times-Star (California), June 17, 2003

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you
if
a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

All you democrats think alike, don't you?

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind,
not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)

You keep saying that. Why do many of us not quite believe you along
that line, Ed? (Clue: You often sound more like a Democrat than a
Republican.)

I was a registered Republican for my first 30 voting years, then they
changed, were corrupted (even further?) sigh In any case, though
registered, I didn't always vote the party line. I voted for whomever
I thought would do the best job.

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

To keep it short, there are two answers to your question. First, how one
perceives my politics depends on who I'm talking to. If this was the Artist
Forum on CompuServe years ago, where I was a sysop, or the Literature Forum,
or a writer's online group where I used to spend some time, there would be
no doubt in your mind who the Republican was. This place is populated mostly
by middling conservatives peppered with a few ideological cranks; the left
is so weak here that there's no point in arguing with them.

The other answer is that I come from a different Republican tradition, one
that was influenced by people like Milton Friedman and George Will, rather
than by Ronnie Reagan or the religious right. I became a Republican over
welfare issues, not over guns, taxes, or religious self-righteousness. I was
a welfare hawk and a balanced-budget fiscal conservative and I still am.
Later, I got involved with the gun issue when NJ instigated an "assault
weapon" ban. I wrote editorials opposing it and presented testimony at the
NJ State Senate hearings on the issue. Based on that, the state NRA
affiliate asked me to become a delegate to my county Republican convention
and I agreed.

The Republican tradition is pro-defense and anti-war; pro civil rights and
pro balanced budget; it favors the Madisonian republic versus the
Hamiltonian or Jeffersonian. And most people who call themselves Republicans
wouldn't even know what the differences are. When one of them pipes up with
a line like, "this is a republic, not a democracy," and you ask them what
the difference is between a republic and a representative democracy, they
can't answer. A great deal of my personal study has been spent learning the
answer, and the answer tells you that most of the "Republicans" in power
today don't deserve the label.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:


I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind,
not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)


I've lost track of what a RealRepublican(TM) or a RealDemocrat(TM) is.

What are their similarities?
What are their differences?

Wes




VP Gore is out jogging one morning, notices a little boy on the
corner with a box. Curious he runs over to the child and
says, "What's in the box kid?"

To which the little boy says, "Kittens, they're brand new kittens."

Al Gore laughs and says, "What kind of kittens are they?"

"Democrats," the child says.

"Oh that's cute," Al says, and runs off.

A couple of days later Al is running with his buddy Bill Clinton and
he spies the same boy with his box just ahead. Al says to Bill, "You
gotta check this out" and they both jog over to the boy with the box.

Al says, "Look in the box, Bill. Isn't that cute? Look at those little
kittens." Hey kid, tell my friend, Bill, what kind of kittens they
are."

The boy replies, "They're Republicans."

"Whoa!", Al says, "I came by here the other day and you said they
were Democrats. What's up?"

"Well," the kid says, "Their eyes are open now."

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

snip

Whoop, I forgot to answer this question:

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

Neither one. I have low regard for Thompson and Ron Paul makes a good
comedian but I don't see him as president.

I'm really not sure yet who I'll vote for. It won't be Giuliani; as I said,
living within a cannon shot of NYC, we know him too well. He's a little bit
nutty sometimes although he was a very good NYC mayor, IMO. I'd like to see
McCain rise again but that's a very long shot.

What about Allen (Alan, Alen) M. Bunch? You've got to pay attention to a
candidate who spells his first name three different ways on his own website,
eh? He's a little vague about his family and his work but, as he says, he
doesn't get Secret Service protection yet and he has to worry about aliens
who want to do him harm. I assume, and hope, that it's earthly aliens he's
talking about.

For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

--
Ed Huntress

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Stupendous Man wrote:

Worst i did was step into the back of a Beetle with one foot to lift out the
battery, foot went thru the rust floor and the torn metal formed a nice trap
for my boot. I had to have someone jack up the car and unlace my boot to get
my foot out.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty


You forgot: Destroyer of Beetles. ;-)



If you're talking about the rusted-out VW, you don't have to destroy
them, they kind of melt away an ounce at a time.

Jon

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Neither one. I have low regard for Thompson and Ron Paul makes a good
comedian but I don't see him as president.

Any comedian would be better than what we have or any of the 'front
runners'

For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

Instead of voting for the lesser of 2 evils I think I'm going to vote
for the evil of 2 lessors

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

nick hull wrote:
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:


Neither one. I have low regard for Thompson and Ron Paul makes a good
comedian but I don't see him as president.


Any comedian would be better than what we have or any of the 'front
runners'


For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.


Instead of voting for the lesser of 2 evils I think I'm going to vote
for the evil of 2 lessors

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/


That's the "lesser of two weavels"...

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:15:18 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

snip

Whoop, I forgot to answer this question:

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

Neither one. I have low regard for Thompson and Ron Paul makes a good
comedian but I don't see him as president.

Why do you dislike Thompson, if I may ask?


I'm really not sure yet who I'll vote for. It won't be Giuliani; as I said,
living within a cannon shot of NYC, we know him too well. He's a little bit
nutty sometimes although he was a very good NYC mayor, IMO. I'd like to see
McCain rise again but that's a very long shot.

I liked McCain a lot; less since I've seen his stance on things.


What about Allen (Alan, Alen) M. Bunch? You've got to pay attention to a
candidate who spells his first name three different ways on his own website,
eh? He's a little vague about his family and his work but, as he says, he
doesn't get Secret Service protection yet and he has to worry about aliens
who want to do him harm. I assume, and hope, that it's earthly aliens he's
talking about.

g Alain who? I love Michael Jesus Archangel's photo on
http://politics1.com/p2008-gop.htm


For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

Far too deity damned many people will, I fear. BIG sigh

--
Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries
or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.
-- William Faulkner

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:01:58 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you
if
a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

All you democrats think alike, don't you?

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind,
not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)

You keep saying that. Why do many of us not quite believe you along
that line, Ed? (Clue: You often sound more like a Democrat than a
Republican.)

I was a registered Republican for my first 30 voting years, then they
changed, were corrupted (even further?) sigh In any case, though
registered, I didn't always vote the party line. I voted for whomever
I thought would do the best job.

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

To keep it short, there are two answers to your question. First, how one
perceives my politics depends on who I'm talking to. If this was the Artist
Forum on CompuServe years ago, where I was a sysop, or the Literature Forum,
or a writer's online group where I used to spend some time, there would be
no doubt in your mind who the Republican was. This place is populated mostly
by middling conservatives peppered with a few ideological cranks; the left
is so weak here that there's no point in arguing with them.

g


The other answer is that I come from a different Republican tradition, one
that was influenced by people like Milton Friedman and George Will, rather
than by Ronnie Reagan or the religious right. I became a Republican over

I've been a big fan of Ronnie and George as long as I can remember.


welfare issues, not over guns, taxes, or religious self-righteousness. I was
a welfare hawk and a balanced-budget fiscal conservative and I still am.

Ah, a closet Democrat/Libertarian (respectively), eh? gd&r
Religion should have no place in politics and deserves no welfare in
tax breaks, IMNSHO.


Later, I got involved with the gun issue when NJ instigated an "assault
weapon" ban. I wrote editorials opposing it and presented testimony at the
NJ State Senate hearings on the issue. Based on that, the state NRA
affiliate asked me to become a delegate to my county Republican convention
and I agreed.

Goodonya, Mate.


The Republican tradition is pro-defense and anti-war; pro civil rights and
pro balanced budget; it favors the Madisonian republic versus the
Hamiltonian or Jeffersonian. And most people who call themselves Republicans
wouldn't even know what the differences are. When one of them pipes up with

We're a lot more alike than you'd ever admit, I'm sure, but I don't
know the differences you mention, nor will I likely spend days doing
the research to find out.


a line like, "this is a republic, not a democracy," and you ask them what
the difference is between a republic and a representative democracy, they
can't answer. A great deal of my personal study has been spent learning the
answer, and the answer tells you that most of the "Republicans" in power
today don't deserve the label.

Amen to that.

--
Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries
or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.
-- William Faulkner

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:54:50 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, nick
hull quickly quoth:

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Neither one. I have low regard for Thompson and Ron Paul makes a good
comedian but I don't see him as president.

Any comedian would be better than what we have or any of the 'front
runners'

For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

Instead of voting for the lesser of 2 evils I think I'm going to vote
for the evil of 2 lessors

So, what are you leasing, Nick?

--
Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both.
--Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:15:18 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

snip

Whoop, I forgot to answer this question:

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

Neither one. I have low regard for Thompson and Ron Paul makes a good
comedian but I don't see him as president.

Why do you dislike Thompson, if I may ask?


I'm really not sure yet who I'll vote for. It won't be Giuliani; as I
said,
living within a cannon shot of NYC, we know him too well. He's a little
bit
nutty sometimes although he was a very good NYC mayor, IMO. I'd like to
see
McCain rise again but that's a very long shot.

I liked McCain a lot; less since I've seen his stance on things.


What about Allen (Alan, Alen) M. Bunch? You've got to pay attention to a
candidate who spells his first name three different ways on his own
website,
eh? He's a little vague about his family and his work but, as he says, he
doesn't get Secret Service protection yet and he has to worry about aliens
who want to do him harm. I assume, and hope, that it's earthly aliens he's
talking about.

g Alain who? I love Michael Jesus Archangel's photo on
http://politics1.com/p2008-gop.htm


For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting
the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

Far too deity damned many people will, I fear. BIG sigh

Well, they have their chance now to vote for a Libertarian nominee. I kind
of like that Robert Milnes guy. He's collected $35 in campaign contributions
already, and he has an interesting plan to expand the population of Native
Americans through surrogate motherhood. They'll get a continguous
reservation and room will be made for them by subsidizing the emigration of
volunteer whites and other people -- to Europe or somewhere -- to the tune
of $50,000/each. That, he figures, will reduce the non-Native American
population to around 100 million.

http://www.robertmilnes4president2008.com/

Or they could vote for Libertarian John Finan. He's collected $75 in
campaign contributions and he runs a bar. He has a plan for providing
underdeveloped countries with a UV-tube system that alters the DNA of
pathogenic bacteria. Cost: around $40, or, as Finan says, about the price of
one goat.

http://www.johnmfinan.com/

Libertarian platforms are always imaginative and inpiring.

--
Ed Huntress

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:01:58 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:24 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

Ha-ha! See? You must have been thinking about what would happen to you
if
a
libertarian actually got elected, just before you went to bed. d8-)

All you democrats think alike, don't you?

I'll remind you that I've been a registered Republican -- the real kind,
not
a Gunnerian repo-libretardian hybrid, or a Liver-and-onion Rotarian like
you, for 25 years. d8-)

You keep saying that. Why do many of us not quite believe you along
that line, Ed? (Clue: You often sound more like a Democrat than a
Republican.)

I was a registered Republican for my first 30 voting years, then they
changed, were corrupted (even further?) sigh In any case, though
registered, I didn't always vote the party line. I voted for whomever
I thought would do the best job.

So, are you voting for Fred Thompson or Ron Paul? (After the RNS, in
their now-usual mysterious way, nominate some other loser.)

To keep it short, there are two answers to your question. First, how one
perceives my politics depends on who I'm talking to. If this was the
Artist
Forum on CompuServe years ago, where I was a sysop, or the Literature
Forum,
or a writer's online group where I used to spend some time, there would be
no doubt in your mind who the Republican was. This place is populated
mostly
by middling conservatives peppered with a few ideological cranks; the left
is so weak here that there's no point in arguing with them.

g

Let me make clear that by "weak" I mean that their share-of-voice, as the ad
men say, is small. On the whole their intelligence, and sometimes their
arguments, are better than those of run-of-the-mill conservatives. But
intelligence and coherent arguments are not enough by themselves to produce
sensible policy. They might win more debates in a fair fight but debating
points are not the same as wise insights. There's absolutely no chance
they'll get a fair fight here, however.



The other answer is that I come from a different Republican tradition, one
that was influenced by people like Milton Friedman and George Will, rather
than by Ronnie Reagan or the religious right. I became a Republican over

I've been a big fan of Ronnie and George as long as I can remember.

I've probably told you that Will was my professor and academic advisor in
college. He didn't have much influence on my thinking then but I've come to
regard him more highly in the years since. He's ideological but not
doctrinaire. He's always good for some surprises -- well thought-out ones,
for the most part.

I've never been a fan of Reagan but I like him more in hindsight. He had a
lot of weaknesses but also some great strengths.



welfare issues, not over guns, taxes, or religious self-righteousness. I
was
a welfare hawk and a balanced-budget fiscal conservative and I still am.

Ah, a closet Democrat/Libertarian (respectively), eh? gd&r
Religion should have no place in politics and deserves no welfare in
tax breaks, IMNSHO.

Wash your mouth out with soap. I was once a Democrat but no one has ever
gotten away with calling me a Libertarian. d8-) As for religion in politics,
good luck.



Later, I got involved with the gun issue when NJ instigated an "assault
weapon" ban. I wrote editorials opposing it and presented testimony at the
NJ State Senate hearings on the issue. Based on that, the state NRA
affiliate asked me to become a delegate to my county Republican convention
and I agreed.

Goodonya, Mate.


The Republican tradition is pro-defense and anti-war; pro civil rights and
pro balanced budget; it favors the Madisonian republic versus the
Hamiltonian or Jeffersonian. And most people who call themselves
Republicans
wouldn't even know what the differences are. When one of them pipes up
with

We're a lot more alike than you'd ever admit, I'm sure, but I don't
know the differences you mention, nor will I likely spend days doing
the research to find out.

I really doubt if most people here would recognize the others in person if
they didn't know who they were. Nobody is as wacky as the messages you see
on this NG. g

The differences between the various ideas our founders had of a republic are
important, but more important is just understanding the more basic ideas of
a republic. It is not a simple thing, and the history of it is one of the
most interesting things to study in political philosophy. You could almost
say that tracking the idea of the republic through history gives you the
best insights into how Western political thought has evolved. And you really
have to start at the beginning, with the ancient Greeks, or you'll never
really understand it.



a line like, "this is a republic, not a democracy," and you ask them what
the difference is between a republic and a representative democracy, they
can't answer. A great deal of my personal study has been spent learning
the
answer, and the answer tells you that most of the "Republicans" in power
today don't deserve the label.

Amen to that.

--
Ed Huntress

Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Stupendous Man wrote:

Worst i did was step into the back of a Beetle with one foot to lift out the
battery, foot went thru the rust floor and the torn metal formed a nice trap
for my boot. I had to have someone jack up the car and unlace my boot to get
my foot out.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty


You forgot: Destroyer of Beetles. ;-)



If you're talking about the rusted-out VW, you don't have to destroy
them, they kind of melt away an ounce at a time.

Jon


Just the opposite of Johnny Cash's "One piece at a time"?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"nick hull" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

Why do you dislike Thompson, if I may ask?

He has voted for and against gun control

Yeah. Oh, I forgot to answer another one of Larry's questions: I don't care
for Thompson as president for the same reason I don't want someone removing
my appendix just because he plays a doctor on TV. I just can't take Thompson
seriously. And I can't take his campaign seriously. From appearances, he
doesn't take it all that seriously, either.

--
Ed Huntress

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

Why do you dislike Thompson, if I may ask?

He has voted for and against gun control

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote:
Yeah. Oh, I forgot to answer another one of Larry's questions: I don't care
for Thompson as president for the same reason I don't want someone removing
my appendix just because he plays a doctor on TV. I just can't take Thompson
seriously.

You are aware, I trust, that he's a former U.S. Senator, not just an actor.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:45:11 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:15:18 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting
the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

Far too deity damned many people will, I fear. BIG sigh

Well, they have their chance now to vote for a Libertarian nominee. I kind
of like that Robert Milnes guy. He's collected $35 in campaign contributions
already, and he has an interesting plan to expand the population of Native
Americans through surrogate motherhood. They'll get a continguous
reservation and room will be made for them by subsidizing the emigration of
volunteer whites and other people -- to Europe or somewhere -- to the tune
of $50,000/each. That, he figures, will reduce the non-Native American
population to around 100 million.

http://www.robertmilnes4president2008.com/

Look at his buttfugly website (self-created, I'm sure) and then
reading about his high IQ makes one wonder, doesn't it? He is fined
ten goats for fraud.


Or they could vote for Libertarian John Finan. He's collected $75 in
campaign contributions and he runs a bar. He has a plan for providing
underdeveloped countries with a UV-tube system that alters the DNA of
pathogenic bacteria. Cost: around $40, or, as Finan says, about the price of
one goat.

http://www.johnmfinan.com/

I really like the end of the "goat", um, I mean "UV water
purification" story. His last sentence there is "Lastly.... people
should be able to dance wherever they want to in New York City, so
long as the proprietor of the establishment allows it, not as dictated
by the Mayor." It's tres apropos, non? It'll make a big difference in
the lives of developing countrymen.


Libertarian platforms are always imaginative and inpiring.

Yeah, we Libertarians do draw the bulk of the loonies, too, don't we?
Reps and Dems have their share of megalomaniac millionaires. I guess
that goes with the territory of the two most corrupt political groups
in America.

--
Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries
or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.
-- William Faulkner

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
Yeah. Oh, I forgot to answer another one of Larry's questions: I don't
care
for Thompson as president for the same reason I don't want someone
removing
my appendix just because he plays a doctor on TV. I just can't take
Thompson
seriously.

You are aware, I trust, that he's a former U.S. Senator, not just an
actor.

Yeah, but he was a better government lawyer than a Senator.

I still don't take him seriously in his presidential bid. He said at one
point that he didn't "crave" the job of president, and I think it's
reflected in his campaigning. And the acting is a definite negative in my
opinion. It may be cynicism on my part but I've always felt that people who
act have a sort of split personality about what's real: genuineness becomes
an option in their lives and sometimes they abandon it entirely. In any case
they never really stop acting. It's never easy to take them seriously as
real people, and that's a hard enough thing to do with a president even if
he isn't an actor.

In my opinion, it always hurt Reagan with many people (including me) because
he *looked* like everything was an act. Only after he's dead is it becoming
clear to many of us that he probably was acting in character, at least. But
the face we saw was always an act, and a professional, practiced one, at
that.

--
Ed Huntress

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:45:11 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:15:18 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

For me, it will depend on who winds up running against whom. I'm getting
the
feeling I'll again be voting for the least awful of two candidates.

Far too deity damned many people will, I fear. BIG sigh

Well, they have their chance now to vote for a Libertarian nominee. I kind
of like that Robert Milnes guy. He's collected $35 in campaign
contributions
already, and he has an interesting plan to expand the population of Native
Americans through surrogate motherhood. They'll get a continguous
reservation and room will be made for them by subsidizing the emigration
of
volunteer whites and other people -- to Europe or somewhere -- to the tune
of $50,000/each. That, he figures, will reduce the non-Native American
population to around 100 million.

http://www.robertmilnes4president2008.com/

Look at his buttfugly website (self-created, I'm sure) and then
reading about his high IQ makes one wonder, doesn't it? He is fined
ten goats for fraud.


Or they could vote for Libertarian John Finan. He's collected $75 in
campaign contributions and he runs a bar. He has a plan for providing
underdeveloped countries with a UV-tube system that alters the DNA of
pathogenic bacteria. Cost: around $40, or, as Finan says, about the price
of
one goat.

http://www.johnmfinan.com/

I really like the end of the "goat", um, I mean "UV water
purification" story. His last sentence there is "Lastly.... people
should be able to dance wherever they want to in New York City, so
long as the proprietor of the establishment allows it, not as dictated
by the Mayor." It's tres apropos, non? It'll make a big difference in
the lives of developing countrymen.

Dance away your troubles. That's his plan for low-cost social services.



Libertarian platforms are always imaginative and inpiring.

Yeah, we Libertarians do draw the bulk of the loonies, too, don't we?
Reps and Dems have their share of megalomaniac millionaires. I guess
that goes with the territory of the two most corrupt political groups
in America.

Just remember, a politician who isn't corrupt is one who hasn't been elected
yet. When your total campaign contributions amount to $35 and you have no
chance of winning, what are you going to barter for bribes?

--
Ed Huntress

In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
Yeah. Oh, I forgot to answer another one of Larry's questions: I don't
care
for Thompson as president for the same reason I don't want someone
removing
my appendix just because he plays a doctor on TV. I just can't take
Thompson
seriously.

You are aware, I trust, that he's a former U.S. Senator, not just an
actor.

Yeah, but he was a better government lawyer than a Senator.

I still don't take him seriously in his presidential bid. He said at one
point that he didn't "crave" the job of president

From where I sit, that's a *good* thing.

, and I think it's
reflected in his campaigning. And the acting is a definite negative in my
opinion. It may be cynicism on my part but I've always felt that people who
act have a sort of split personality about what's real: genuineness becomes
an option in their lives and sometimes they abandon it entirely. In any case
they never really stop acting. It's never easy to take them seriously as
real people, and that's a hard enough thing to do with a president even if
he isn't an actor.

In my opinion, it always hurt Reagan with many people (including me) because
he *looked* like everything was an act. Only after he's dead is it becoming
clear to many of us that he probably was acting in character, at least. But
the face we saw was always an act, and a professional, practiced one, at
that.

I can't disagree with any of what you say, but I do think Fred deserves a
look.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

If you're talking about the rusted-out VW, you don't have to destroy
them, they kind of melt away an ounce at a time.

Jon



Just the opposite of Johnny Cash's "One piece at a time"?



No, kind of "all the pieces, all the time, very slowly", but yeah.

Jon

On Nov 29, 1:08 am, Jon Elson wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

If you're talking about the rusted-out VW, you don't have to destroy
them, they kind of melt away an ounce at a time.

Jon

Just the opposite of Johnny Cash's "One piece at a time"?

No, kind of "all the pieces, all the time, very slowly", but yeah.

Jon

One of my friends has a mid 70's beetle. its been painted once in
HOUSEPAINT

thank god she hasnt figured out i can do bodywork. I elded the bumper
back on and the bumper post has an unexplained amount of water sitting
in it. which of course vented through the weld as hot steam since i
was welding on that post

that caught me WAY off guard

On Nov 26, 7:49 pm, "azotic" wrote:
Grusome story of a farmer cutting off his arm to save his life.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...07047&provider...

Anyone here have a simular incident involving a machine tool ?

Best Regards
Tom.

Its funny i grew up in a HUGE mining and fabrication town in Canada
called Sudbury.

A story like that would have not made it past the local paper. It was
"normal" to hear of about one on the job death a month or at least a
major accident.

I'm one step removed form a lot of work related deaths and
dismemberments. It was friends of family or family of friends. IN some
ways i think its ODD when i now hear of a workplace fatality and the
big hullaballoo that happens in the place i live now compared to the
"local news only" where i grew up.

Maybe its the safety attitude Maybe its taking things in perspective.

Maybe i've gorwon up jaded to things like that?

Brent
Ottawa Canada

Larry Jaques wrote:

He is fined ten goats for fraud.


I don't EVEN want to know what you intend to do with those goats.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida