hi guys,

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either
replace (which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings,
somehow or another.

I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also
appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal.
'best' here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please
see this image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so
immediately following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.

http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo37.html

thanks for ideas and tips,

toolie

- -
replies by e-mail, if any, please remove the weirdstuff from my address
before you click 'send' - thanks :-)
- -

On Sep 4, 5:37 pm, dave wrote:
hi guys,

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either
replace (which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings,
somehow or another.

I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also
appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal.
'best' here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please
see this image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so
immediately following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.

http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo37.html

thanks for ideas and tips,


How about if you start with a standard bushing, have
it turned (if needed ) to the proper ID and OD and then
have a keyway cut into it so that a separate key can
be used?

ISTR a process (sputtered chrome?) that could build up a
worn steel part which would then be ground down to
the desired final size. Many years ago a cow-orker had
a gear for his tractor repaired that way.

That process could be used to repair the shaft to a
diameter slightly larger than original and the bushings
bored out to match.

But first I would do a thorough search to verify that there
are no replacement bushings available.

It would also be possible to have exact replacements
for the bushings custom milled from round stock.

Which of these, if any, is cheaper than buying a new winch
I leave to you to decide....

--

FF

"dave" wrote in message
...
hi guys,

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either replace
(which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings, somehow or
another.

I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also
appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal. 'best'
here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please see this
image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so immediately
following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.


Dial in the existing bushings and bore them straight to a standard size.
Maybe 1 3/8"?

Obtain some standard bronze bushings in the correct OD, with an ID smaller
than the desired finished size. If you just like to machine brassy stuff,
buy a 13" bar of "bunting
stock" in your favorite flavor. Naval bronze, Aluminum bronze, plain old
brass,
whatever. You MIGHT even save a couple of bucks over the price of finished
bushings.

Silver solder, heat and shrink, loctite and press, pick your favorite
method and insert
the bushings in the bores.

Do whatever you are going to do to the shafts, bore the bushings to the
desired fit,
and assemble.

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either replace
(which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings, somehow or
another.

I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also
appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal. 'best'
here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please see this
image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so immediately
following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.

http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo37.html

thanks for ideas and tips,

How about using a standard round bushing, slightly oversized. Press it in,
ream or burnish it to size on the ID... Keep a "lip" on one size and and
then use a shaft collar or maybe pressed-on bearing to hold the bushing in
place from the other side / laterally since it looks as if that pin keeps it
from sliding in and/or out? It shouldn't spin in the housing... We don't
pin, key or even set-screw ours in place and we stroke a quill against them
24/7 on production drills. No movement.

It looks as if the keyway of sorts was put in to keep it from spinning...
Stabilization. I'd think there were other ways to stabilize it.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either replace
(which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings, somehow or
another.

I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also
appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal.
'best' here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please
see this image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so
immediately following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.

http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo37.html

thanks for ideas and tips,

How about using a standard round bushing, slightly oversized. Press it
in, ream or burnish it to size on the ID... Keep a "lip" on one size and
and then use a shaft collar or maybe pressed-on bearing to hold the
bushing in place from the other side / laterally since it looks as if that
pin keeps it from sliding in and/or out? It shouldn't spin in the
housing... We don't pin, key or even set-screw ours in place and we
stroke a quill against them 24/7 on production drills. No movement.

It looks as if the keyway of sorts was put in to keep it from spinning...
Stabilization. I'd think there were other ways to stabilize it.

Or... How about re-working it so that the housing and shaft simply use a
standard roller bearing? You might have to be creative to keep it in the
housing as I'd be real careful pressing anything into that bore, but it
might work well for you...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

dave wrote:
hi guys,

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either
replace (which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings,
somehow or another.

Babbitting them would be high on my list of possible approaches.

John

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:37:28 -0400, dave
wrote:

hi guys,

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either
replace (which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings,
somehow or another.

I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also
appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal.
'best' here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please
see this image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so
immediately following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.

http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo37.html

thanks for ideas and tips,

toolie

- -
replies by e-mail, if any, please remove the weirdstuff from my address
before you click 'send' - thanks :-)
- -


****..thats easy. Bore out the existing bushings and press in liners.

Gunner

dave wrote:

I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no
longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride
in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze
bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either
replace (which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings,
somehow or another.

So many ideas so far. Bore a new one that is round and mill a key slot in
od and make a custom key to locate it?

Wes

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

So, if you want to do it yourself, and since you have no machine
tools, you're limited to the epoxy or babbit, no? Pick one, try it.
Not much to loose - you probably can't screw things up irreparably.

Or, you can take it to someone who does have the tools to do it
properly and pay them to do it. And ask for their recommendation.

John Martin

John Martin wrote:
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".


thanks for all your help and ideas so far, guys. well, I removed the
bronze 'eared' bushings yesterday, (and made a few disheartening
discoveries in the process). so I've posted a few new pix:

the bushing bores IN the frame have conical (tapered) bores:
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo44.html
- - -
and the bushing bores are "rough cast" not machined:
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo55.html
- - -
the bushings themselves have conical OD's, to mate, of course:
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo45.html
and
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo46.html
- - -
and the *biggest* problem: the bushing bores "aren't at all parallel"
with their OD's, either:
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo48.html
and
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_w...s/photo51.html

looks like to achieve any sort of better situation with the bushings,
since they're -so- thin at the small end OD and since their bores aren't
parallel with their OD's, I'd either need to 'align bore' the frame to
accept some 'semi-standard' bushings *or* "pour the frame solid" (with
either bronze or babbitt) then drill and 'align bore' the
poured-in-place bearing materials. jeeze. either way it's "quite the big
headache" time.

my latest idea, *VERY* non-standard: hacksaw cut the OD of the bushings
parallel with their bores, hose clamp them "near tight shut" around
their correct shafts, silver-solder the hacksaw-cut path shut 'locking
in that shaft to bushing clearance relationship', then epoxy the
bushings into their mating frame bores (while the shafts are in them, to
"keep things aligned", greased slightly). ps - I have 'near tons' of
spare epoxy. I'd rather use metal, though...

and to pour babbitt or bronze in those bearing bores, I'd need to
pre-heat the frame (and shafts etc) up to about 5 or 600 degrees or so.
just "throw the whole deal into a pretty hot open fire", jerk it on out
of the fire, then be REAL quick about pouring the bearings? or what?

I'm still *WIDE* open to other interesting and better ideas on this
'headachey' one guys :-)

thanks again,

toolie

ps-I removed and 'position labeled' all four bushings so they can go
back into their original bores. but I still haven't tried
'interchanging' the bearings removed, to see if any of 'em will fit into
'other' bores in the frame, and if so how close a FIT do they have TO
those 'not their own' bores....my guess is, though, they're probably not
uniform.

- -
replies by e-mail, if any, please remove the weirdstuff from my address
before you click 'send' - thanks :-)
- -

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:51:04 -0400, dave
wrote:
interesting stuff and picture urls snipped
I'm still *WIDE* open to other interesting and better ideas on this
'headachey' one guys :-)
==========
Looks like cost reduction was running wild the day this was
designed. No machine holes, etc.

I would consider "slicking" up the shaft in a lathe and polishing
the bearing surfaces, putting everthing back together, and
shimming/locating the shaft in as good alignment as you can, and
injecting turcite or moglice between the bearings and the shaft.
More than likely this will be better than new. Be sure to
paint/spray the shaft with release agent and degrease the
bearings.

You may need to stand the wench on end like you were babbiting
the solid housing bearings.

click on
http://www.moglice.com/newsite/pages/wrotethebook.html
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cg...0;t=000626;p=0
http://www.moglice.com/newsite/pages/lowfriction.html
http://diamant.ph/en/referenzen/details/all
http://diamant.ph/en/produkte/
http://moglice.de/
http://www.thomasnet.com/profile/100...ry-co-inc.html

these are just examples
google on moglice OR turcite OR garlock putty for 12.7K hits

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

Fill each bearing with Babbit, drill small well-centered hole,
reinstall and enlarge holes in steps with long aircraft drills
available from HD, alternating direction. The tricky part is aiming
each new drill directly at the hole in the other bearing. You could
get drills with 1/4" shanks and an extension shaft so the smaller bore
on one end guides the larger drill at the other end.

Once you have the holes aligned, put each bearing in a lathe with the
drill bit in it and adjust it so the bit shank runs true, then bore to
the size of the actual shaft.

jw