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Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
But sorta on topic because the machine it's working with is drilling four
1/2" holes in a pipe that is being clamped and automatically rotated and slid into position... The customer is drilling a thousand holes in a pipe with a single button push and a cheapo-PLC... But... He wants me to work clamping into it now that the machine has run smoothly for a few years... Why? Because it makes a better hole I suppose. :) Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his PLC without an integrated product... Oh the things I get myself into... :) Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his PLC without an integrated product... Many pneumatic cylinders have reed or hall effect switches on cylinder body. Ask Destaco if that is an option. I can't believe it is not. Wes |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his PLC without an integrated product... The other option is air pressure switches and assumptions. I like the magnetic sensors on cylinder body suggestion much more. Wes |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
news:s9Hzi.4634$oh1.2914@trnddc04: Joe, Can you use a magnetic reed switch for the inputs? (24v) We use one like you are talking, pneumatic, swing, then clamp, but it uses reed switches for the open/closed detection. I can't think of the name at the moment, but it will come to me. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his PLC without an integrated product... When I worked for the big corporation, we often used magnetic proximity switches for this sort of thing. You've just got to find a place where you can drill a 1/4" hole and imbed a magnet. The switch itself closes when the magnet is within a 1/4 inch - non contact and good for 100,000s of cycles. Karl |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:26:00 GMT, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote: Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his PLC without an integrated product... Bimba makes 'em. http://www.bimba.com/Products/FlatCy...lampCylinders/ ....and Compact Air http://www.compactautomation.com/pro...work_twist.htm I know Bimba has dry contact (reed) switches as well as Hall sensors, not sure how many choices Compact Air offers. Googling "swing clamp" pneumatic and "swing clamp" air turned up several others I wasn't aware of; for example http://www.monroeengineering.com/cla...pn/page304.htm http://www.vektek.com/Air/swing_clamp.htm On the other hand, if you mean air operated toggle clamps, last I knew Destaco makes those. -- Ned Simmons |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
Many pneumatic cylinders have reed or hall effect switches on cylinder
body. Ask Destaco if that is an option. I can't believe it is not. I've got an e-mail into them... They were closed when I called. :( -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
The other option is air pressure switches and assumptions. I like the
magnetic sensors on cylinder body suggestion much more. I've got a better set-up than that... But only because the customer can not handle the extra inout from a pressure switch on his PLC. When my drill retracts, it also puts pressure to the clamps... And thre is a built in pneumatic timer to make sure that they don't open immediately... The clamps get full system pressure rather than post regulator pressure so there is at least the expectation that they will open if there is no obstruction... But no "proof" as I desire. Customer thinks that the expectation is enough, but I want to offer the "right" option so I don't get a call a year from now saying, "All your ER spindles are bemt and my clamps are now a permanent part of one of my parts..." -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
Can you use a magnetic reed switch for the inputs? (24v) We use one like
you are talking, pneumatic, swing, then clamp, but it uses reed switches for the open/closed detection. I can't think of the name at the moment, but it will come to me. Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations) have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received at the PLC to proceed. -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
When I worked for the big corporation, we often used magnetic proximity
switches for this sort of thing. You've just got to find a place where you can drill a 1/4" hole and imbed a magnet. The switch itself closes when the magnet is within a 1/4 inch - non contact and good for 100,000s of cycles. My "prox switch" guru was out today... But I know we use both NPN/PNP type sensors regularly so this may be an option if they can be put in series with the dry contact "proof of return" switch on the drill itself. -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
Bimba makes 'em.
http://www.bimba.com/Products/FlatCy...lampCylinders/ ...and Compact Air http://www.compactautomation.com/pro...work_twist.htm I know Bimba has dry contact (reed) switches as well as Hall sensors, not sure how many choices Compact Air offers. Googling "swing clamp" pneumatic and "swing clamp" air turned up several others I wasn't aware of; for example http://www.monroeengineering.com/cla...pn/page304.htm http://www.vektek.com/Air/swing_clamp.htm On the other hand, if you mean air operated toggle clamps, last I knew Destaco makes those. Will look closely at thise links on Monday when I'm not logged into my work PC via remote control. Thank you. -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
According to Joe AutoDrill :
[ ... ] Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations) have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received at the PLC to proceed. Hmm ... the burglar alarm switches which used to be in Radio Shack (and may still be, for all that I know) were in plastic and had a pair of screw terminals on them They would close whenever a magnet was close enough to them. The real problem might be a buildup of chips on the magnet over time, if he is drilling steel. If aluminum or plastic -- no problems there. I would still coat over the screw terminals with an insulating tape or some kind of insulating coating. Good Luck DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
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Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
news:puLzi.4849$oh1.562@trnddc04: Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations) have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received at the PLC to proceed. I actually think the clamps are destaco, but I can check monday. We just use standard balluff or festo PNP flat pack cylinder prox switches. I would suggest you supply 24V to the sensor off of the plc power supply, then tie the signal output to an ice cube relay (or a phoenix contact solid state relay) which would actually pass the current along the series to the PLC, since the current may be too much for the sensor in a series application. These things are only good for a few mA. Reliable as whiz tho when properly used. The only bad thing about a magnetic sensitive prox is the range of sensing is not 'precise' per se`. You can shade it to one side or the other of the magnet stop position, this will make it more accurate. This is the most common type of clamping sensor we use, by far. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand of these sensors in use at our plant. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:48:21 GMT, Anthony
wrote: "Joe AutoDrill" wrote in news:puLzi.4849$oh1.562@trnddc04: Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations) have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received at the PLC to proceed. I actually think the clamps are destaco, but I can check monday. We just use standard balluff or festo PNP flat pack cylinder prox switches. I would suggest you supply 24V to the sensor off of the plc power supply, then tie the signal output to an ice cube relay (or a phoenix contact solid state relay) which would actually pass the current along the series to the PLC, since the current may be too much for the sensor in a series application. These things are only good for a few mA. Reliable as whiz tho when properly used. The only bad thing about a magnetic sensitive prox is the range of sensing is not 'precise' per se`. You can shade it to one side or the other of the magnet stop position, this will make it more accurate. This is the most common type of clamping sensor we use, by far. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand of these sensors in use at our plant. Sounds good to me. Gunner |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
I actually think the clamps are destaco, but I can check monday. We just
use standard balluff or festo PNP flat pack cylinder prox switches. I would suggest you supply 24V to the sensor off of the plc power supply, then tie the signal output to an ice cube relay (or a phoenix contact solid state relay) which would actually pass the current along the series to the PLC, since the current may be too much for the sensor in a series application. These things are only good for a few mA. Reliable as whiz tho when properly used. The only bad thing about a magnetic sensitive prox is the range of sensing is not 'precise' per se`. You can shade it to one side or the other of the magnet stop position, this will make it more accurate. This is the most common type of clamping sensor we use, by far. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand of these sensors in use at our plant. The application's need is relatively simple so I may just do it that way. The clamp opens quite a bit so if I were to use the prox to sense the clamp body's position, I should be fine. No real chip debris in that area from what I can see from the photos I received (I LOVE doing business without traveling sometimes...) Should solidify the plan this week. I appreciate all the information and ideas from you and others on this. Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
news:N3zAi.7105$u21.2237@trnddc08: Should solidify the plan this week. I appreciate all the information and ideas from you and others on this. No problem Joe. I design and build automation on a daily basis, both "normal" automation with actuators etc, and robotic automation using 6 axis robots. It's usually a combination of both, along with conveyance systems, clamping systems, etc. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
Sorta OT for Automation of Machine...
No problem Joe. I design and build automation on a daily basis, both
"normal" automation with actuators etc, and robotic automation using 6 axis robots. It's usually a combination of both, along with conveyance systems, clamping systems, etc. Can you shoot me an e-mail off-group? My direct address is: bob AT youthelate DOT com ....At least for the next few days to avoid spam. :) -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com V8013-R |
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