But sorta on topic because the machine it's working with is drilling four
1/2" holes in a pipe that is being clamped and automatically rotated and
slid into position... The customer is drilling a thousand holes in a pipe
with a single button push and a cheapo-PLC... But... He wants me to work
clamping into it now that the machine has run smoothly for a few years...

Why? Because it makes a better hole I suppose.

Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco
type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open
clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are
still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my
pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his
PLC without an integrated product...

Oh the things I get myself into...

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco
type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open
clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are
still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my
pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his
PLC without an integrated product...

Many pneumatic cylinders have reed or hall effect switches on cylinder body.
Ask Destaco if that is an option. I can't believe it is not.

Wes

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my
pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his
PLC without an integrated product...


The other option is air pressure switches and assumptions. I like the
magnetic sensors on cylinder body suggestion much more.

Wes

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
news:s9Hzi.4634$oh1.2914@trnddc04:

Joe,
Can you use a magnetic reed switch for the inputs? (24v) We use one like
you are talking, pneumatic, swing, then clamp, but it uses reed switches
for the open/closed detection. I can't think of the name at the moment,
but it will come to me.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco
type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open
clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are
still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my
pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his
PLC without an integrated product...

When I worked for the big corporation, we often used magnetic proximity
switches for this sort of thing. You've just got to find a place where you
can drill a 1/4" hole and imbed a magnet. The switch itself closes when the
magnet is within a 1/4 inch - non contact and good for 100,000s of cycles.

Karl

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:26:00 GMT, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:


Anyone know if there is such thing as a pneumatic swing arm clamp (DeStaco
type) that has a dry contact electrical switch to provide a "proof of open
clamp" signal? Can't be moving or rotating that pipe if the clamps are
still closed... And I can control the clamp close / open cycle with my
pneumatic controls but can't provide a "proof of open clamp" signal to his
PLC without an integrated product...


Bimba makes 'em.
http://www.bimba.com/Products/FlatCy...lampCylinders/

....and Compact Air
http://www.compactautomation.com/pro...work_twist.htm

I know Bimba has dry contact (reed) switches as well as Hall sensors,
not sure how many choices Compact Air offers.

Googling "swing clamp" pneumatic and "swing clamp" air
turned up several others I wasn't aware of; for example
http://www.monroeengineering.com/cla...pn/page304.htm
http://www.vektek.com/Air/swing_clamp.htm

On the other hand, if you mean air operated toggle clamps, last I knew
Destaco makes those.

--
Ned Simmons

Many pneumatic cylinders have reed or hall effect switches on cylinder
body.
Ask Destaco if that is an option. I can't believe it is not.

I've got an e-mail into them... They were closed when I called.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

The other option is air pressure switches and assumptions. I like the
magnetic sensors on cylinder body suggestion much more.

I've got a better set-up than that... But only because the customer can not
handle the extra inout from a pressure switch on his PLC.

When my drill retracts, it also puts pressure to the clamps... And thre is
a built in pneumatic timer to make sure that they don't open immediately...
The clamps get full system pressure rather than post regulator pressure so
there is at least the expectation that they will open if there is no
obstruction... But no "proof" as I desire.

Customer thinks that the expectation is enough, but I want to offer the
"right" option so I don't get a call a year from now saying, "All your ER
spindles are bemt and my clamps are now a permanent part of one of my
parts..."
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Can you use a magnetic reed switch for the inputs? (24v) We use one like
you are talking, pneumatic, swing, then clamp, but it uses reed switches
for the open/closed detection. I can't think of the name at the moment,
but it will come to me.

Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of
return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so
that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations)
have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received
at the PLC to proceed.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

When I worked for the big corporation, we often used magnetic proximity
switches for this sort of thing. You've just got to find a place where you
can drill a 1/4" hole and imbed a magnet. The switch itself closes when
the magnet is within a 1/4 inch - non contact and good for 100,000s of
cycles.

My "prox switch" guru was out today... But I know we use both NPN/PNP type
sensors regularly so this may be an option if they can be put in series with
the dry contact "proof of return" switch on the drill itself.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Bimba makes 'em.
http://www.bimba.com/Products/FlatCy...lampCylinders/

...and Compact Air
http://www.compactautomation.com/pro...work_twist.htm

I know Bimba has dry contact (reed) switches as well as Hall sensors,
not sure how many choices Compact Air offers.

Googling "swing clamp" pneumatic and "swing clamp" air
turned up several others I wasn't aware of; for example
http://www.monroeengineering.com/cla...pn/page304.htm
http://www.vektek.com/Air/swing_clamp.htm

On the other hand, if you mean air operated toggle clamps, last I knew
Destaco makes those.

Will look closely at thise links on Monday when I'm not logged into my work
PC via remote control. Thank you.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

According to Joe AutoDrill :

[ ... ]

Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of
return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so
that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations)
have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received
at the PLC to proceed.

Hmm ... the burglar alarm switches which used to be in Radio
Shack (and may still be, for all that I know) were in plastic and had a
pair of screw terminals on them

They would close whenever a magnet was close enough to them.

The real problem might be a buildup of chips on the magnet over
time, if he is drilling steel. If aluminum or plastic -- no problems
there. I would still coat over the screw terminals with an insulating
tape or some kind of insulating coating.

Good Luck
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 25 Aug 2007 04:48:29 GMT, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

According to Joe AutoDrill :

[ ... ]

Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof of
return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with that so
that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one clamping locations)
have to be made for the circuit to be completed and thus the signal received
at the PLC to proceed.

Hmm ... the burglar alarm switches which used to be in Radio
Shack (and may still be, for all that I know) were in plastic and had a
pair of screw terminals on them

I tried to use one of those as an automatic door bell button when we
had the store but they wouldn't handle the load - I ended up with a
pair of micro switches set up to make then break the circuit.
They would close whenever a magnet was close enough to them.

The real problem might be a buildup of chips on the magnet over
time, if he is drilling steel. If aluminum or plastic -- no problems
there. I would still coat over the screw terminals with an insulating
tape or some kind of insulating coating.

Good Luck
DoN.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
newsuLzi.4849$oh1.562@trnddc04:



Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof
of return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with
that so that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one
clamping locations) have to be made for the circuit to be completed
and thus the signal received at the PLC to proceed.

I actually think the clamps are destaco, but I can check monday. We just
use standard balluff or festo PNP flat pack cylinder prox switches. I
would suggest you supply 24V to the sensor off of the plc power supply,
then tie the signal output to an ice cube relay (or a phoenix contact
solid state relay) which would actually pass the current along the series
to the PLC, since the current may be too much for the sensor in a series
application. These things are only good for a few mA. Reliable as whiz
tho when properly used. The only bad thing about a magnetic sensitive
prox is the range of sensing is not 'precise' per se`. You can shade it
to one side or the other of the magnet stop position, this will make it
more accurate. This is the most common type of clamping sensor we use, by
far. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand of these
sensors in use at our plant.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:48:21 GMT, Anthony
wrote:

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
newsuLzi.4849$oh1.562@trnddc04:



Something like that... The drill I provided has a dry contact proof
of return switch so I'm looking for something I can put in series with
that so that BOTH (or actually ALL since there are more than one
clamping locations) have to be made for the circuit to be completed
and thus the signal received at the PLC to proceed.

I actually think the clamps are destaco, but I can check monday. We just
use standard balluff or festo PNP flat pack cylinder prox switches. I
would suggest you supply 24V to the sensor off of the plc power supply,
then tie the signal output to an ice cube relay (or a phoenix contact
solid state relay) which would actually pass the current along the series
to the PLC, since the current may be too much for the sensor in a series
application. These things are only good for a few mA. Reliable as whiz
tho when properly used. The only bad thing about a magnetic sensitive
prox is the range of sensing is not 'precise' per se`. You can shade it
to one side or the other of the magnet stop position, this will make it
more accurate. This is the most common type of clamping sensor we use, by
far. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand of these
sensors in use at our plant.

Sounds good to me.

Gunner

I actually think the clamps are destaco, but I can check monday. We just
use standard balluff or festo PNP flat pack cylinder prox switches. I
would suggest you supply 24V to the sensor off of the plc power supply,
then tie the signal output to an ice cube relay (or a phoenix contact
solid state relay) which would actually pass the current along the series
to the PLC, since the current may be too much for the sensor in a series
application. These things are only good for a few mA. Reliable as whiz
tho when properly used. The only bad thing about a magnetic sensitive
prox is the range of sensing is not 'precise' per se`. You can shade it
to one side or the other of the magnet stop position, this will make it
more accurate. This is the most common type of clamping sensor we use, by
far. Probably in the neighborhood of a couple of thousand of these
sensors in use at our plant.

The application's need is relatively simple so I may just do it that way.
The clamp opens quite a bit so if I were to use the prox to sense the clamp
body's position, I should be fine. No real chip debris in that area from
what I can see from the photos I received (I LOVE doing business without
traveling sometimes...)

Should solidify the plan this week. I appreciate all the information and
ideas from you and others on this.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
news:N3zAi.7105$u21.2237@trnddc08:


Should solidify the plan this week. I appreciate all the information
and ideas from you and others on this.


No problem Joe. I design and build automation on a daily basis, both
"normal" automation with actuators etc, and robotic automation using 6
axis robots. It's usually a combination of both, along with conveyance
systems, clamping systems, etc.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

No problem Joe. I design and build automation on a daily basis, both
"normal" automation with actuators etc, and robotic automation using 6
axis robots. It's usually a combination of both, along with conveyance
systems, clamping systems, etc.

Can you shoot me an e-mail off-group? My direct address is:

bob AT youthelate DOT com

....At least for the next few days to avoid spam.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R