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E. Walter Le Roy May 2nd 06 02:45 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
Joe bought his wife a cell phone for her birthday. This was her first
experience with one. Next day he called her and said "how do you like it/"
"Fine", she replied, "but how did you know I was at Wal-Mart?"



Jon Elson May 2nd 06 08:21 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 


E. Walter Le Roy wrote:

Joe bought his wife a cell phone for her birthday. This was her first
experience with one. Next day he called her and said "how do you like it/"
"Fine", she replied, "but how did you know I was at Wal-Mart?"




You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls. (The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.

Well, the phone co's have this data laying around, what can they do to
make money off it?
So, they sell it to data banking outfits, who figured out even the
triangulation data
is good enough to tell which store a consumer is visiting, and the GPS
data is
good enough to tell when you are in the cosmetics aisle, and when you
are in the
pet food one. Then, they combine this with credit card info, and they
can figure
out what you bought, and when!

Jon


Dave Hinz May 2nd 06 09:08 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls.


Really?

(The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.


Cite, please?

Well, the phone co's have this data laying around, what can they do to
make money off it?
So, they sell it to data banking outfits, who figured out even the
triangulation data
is good enough to tell which store a consumer is visiting, and the GPS
data is
good enough to tell when you are in the cosmetics aisle, and when you
are in the
pet food one.


I call bullshiat. I've never seen a GPS unit that works indoors.

Then, they combine this with credit card info, and they
can figure
out what you bought, and when!


mmhmm ok. I'm afraid that I'd be astonishingly uninteresting to them
then.


Tom Gardner May 2nd 06 10:00 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls.


Really?

(The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.


Cite, please?

Well, the phone co's have this data laying around, what can they do to
make money off it?
So, they sell it to data banking outfits, who figured out even the
triangulation data
is good enough to tell which store a consumer is visiting, and the GPS
data is
good enough to tell when you are in the cosmetics aisle, and when you
are in the
pet food one.


I call bullshiat. I've never seen a GPS unit that works indoors.

Then, they combine this with credit card info, and they
can figure
out what you bought, and when!


mmhmm ok. I'm afraid that I'd be astonishingly uninteresting to them
then.


See if it works...hang around the tampoon isle and see if you get some
cupons in the mail.



Rex B May 2nd 06 11:15 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how20/f...cbccdrcrd.html

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:
You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls.

Really?

(The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.

Cite, please?

Well, the phone co's have this data laying around, what can they do to
make money off it?
So, they sell it to data banking outfits, who figured out even the
triangulation data
is good enough to tell which store a consumer is visiting, and the GPS
data is
good enough to tell when you are in the cosmetics aisle, and when you
are in the
pet food one.

I call bullshiat. I've never seen a GPS unit that works indoors.

Then, they combine this with credit card info, and they
can figure
out what you bought, and when!

mmhmm ok. I'm afraid that I'd be astonishingly uninteresting to them
then.


See if it works...hang around the tampoon isle and see if you get some
cupons in the mail.



Gerald Miller May 3rd 06 02:30 AM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:



E. Walter Le Roy wrote:

Joe bought his wife a cell phone for her birthday. This was her first
experience with one. Next day he called her and said "how do you like it/"
"Fine", she replied, "but how did you know I was at Wal-Mart?"




You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls. (The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.

Well, the phone co's have this data laying around, what can they do to
make money off it?
So, they sell it to data banking outfits, who figured out even the
triangulation data
is good enough to tell which store a consumer is visiting, and the GPS
data is
good enough to tell when you are in the cosmetics aisle, and when you
are in the
pet food one. Then, they combine this with credit card info, and they
can figure
out what you bought, and when!

Jon

I wonder what the market in older cell phones is going to be like.
Mine is a Nokia 6188 dgital/analog and I have no plans to get into the
new camera, MP3, internet, self fornicating models. This phone is
giving excellent service on a "pay and talk" plan which includes
redundant emergency road service. I don't use this much as indicated
by my carryover air time of over 14 hours of local calling time.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Jon Elson May 3rd 06 03:01 AM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls.



Really?


(The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.



Cite, please?

OK, there was a murder in 2004 in Des Peres, MO (less than a mile from
my home) where a family member drive from NC, I think, to bump off an
abusive brother in law. The abused woman had her sister buy a cell
phone for her, and made the transaction as untracable as they could,
paid in cash, etc. The murderer borrowed the phone to stay in touch
during the operation, and left the phone on during the whole drive so
he could be contacted if there was any complication to the plot. Expert
testimony from the cell phone co. was presented pinpointing the location
of the guy all along the travel route, and right up to the vicinity of
the murder site, and then heading immediately back to NC. No
authorities had any idea about the plot until days after the murder was
committed. So, the tracking data for ALL phones must have been kept
for months after the murder, until the authorities came with a subpoena.

There have been a couple of other murder investigations where cell phone
tracking info was presented, too.

Jon

Jon Elson May 3rd 06 03:11 AM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls.



Really?


(The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.



Cite, please?

OK, here's a roundup of recent cases :
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/USA_v_PenRegister/

Jon

[email protected] May 3rd 06 02:01 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 

Jon Elson wrote:
You think this is funny! For 911 response purposes, the cell phone
companies are
required to triangulate the location of all phones every couple of
minutes from
the several cell sites that can "hear" the phone, whenever it is turned
on to be
able to receive calls. (The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)


Jon


My LB VX6100 has a setting where location can be continuosly enabled,
or only during a 911 call.
Not sure I trust it.

Dave


Dave Hinz May 3rd 06 03:45 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
On Tue, 02 May 2006 21:01:46 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:21:38 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:


(The newer phones have GPS receivers in them,
and the
cell sites interrogate the phones for location every couple of minutes.)
The cell
phone companies are required to keep this location tracking data for 7
years for
law enforcement purposes.


Cite, please?


OK, there was a murder in 2004 in Des Peres, MO (less than a mile from
my home) where a family member drive from NC, I think, to bump off an
abusive brother in law. The abused woman had her sister buy a cell
phone for her, and made the transaction as untracable as they could,
paid in cash, etc. The murderer borrowed the phone to stay in touch
during the operation, and left the phone on during the whole drive so
he could be contacted if there was any complication to the plot. Expert
testimony from the cell phone co. was presented pinpointing the location
of the guy all along the travel route, and right up to the vicinity of
the murder site, and then heading immediately back to NC. No
authorities had any idea about the plot until days after the murder was
committed. So, the tracking data for ALL phones must have been kept
for months after the murder, until the authorities came with a subpoena.


OK, but I don't see anything about keeping it "for 7 years for law
enforcement purposes". I can see logfiles being kept for a while
regarding which nodes are in which cells, and if you have a map with the
cells overlaid on it, you can "track" someone from that, sure.

There have been a couple of other murder investigations where cell phone
tracking info was presented, too.


I was hoping for something about a 7 year mandate. Google doesn't seem
to help, and it doesn't sound logical.


[email protected] May 3rd 06 05:46 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
"I was hoping for something about a 7 year mandate. Google doesn't
seem
to help, and it doesn't sound logical. "

This could be in the CALEA legislation-

Dave


Trevor Jones May 4th 06 02:44 AM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
wrote:

My LB VX6100 has a setting where location can be continuosly enabled,
or only during a 911 call.
Not sure I trust it.

Dave


Voice mail box, and frequent use of the on/off control.

Months of use per single charge!!

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Erik May 8th 06 10:33 AM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
In article %nJ5g.11440$t_2.8180@trnddc07,
"E. Walter Le Roy" wrote:

Joe bought his wife a cell phone for her birthday. This was her first
experience with one. Next day he called her and said "how do you like it/"
"Fine", she replied, "but how did you know I was at Wal-Mart?"


I heard they found OJ Simpson by his cell phone. Apparently cell phones
communicate every few seconds with the network, even when just in the
on/standby mode, so the network always knows which cell site the phone
is closest too. They saw his phone moving from cell site to cell site
located along a freeway, giving john law a good general area to focus
on....

Erik

Dave Hinz May 8th 06 03:28 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
On Mon, 08 May 2006 09:33:00 GMT, Erik wrote:
In article %nJ5g.11440$t_2.8180@trnddc07,


I heard they found OJ Simpson by his cell phone. Apparently cell phones
communicate every few seconds with the network, even when just in the
on/standby mode, so the network always knows which cell site the phone
is closest too. They saw his phone moving from cell site to cell site
located along a freeway, giving john law a good general area to focus
on....


Sure, but I'm still not buying the claim that every cellphone is tracked
all the time and the records are kept 7 years. The volume of data would
be immense, and pretty pointless. The expansion of "and the data is
then sold to advertisers" just smells a bit too much like tinfoil-hat
type material.

Robert Swinney May 8th 06 04:23 PM

O.T. Cell Phone
 
Dave sez:: " Sure, but I'm still not buying the claim that every cellphone
is tracked
all the time and the records are kept 7 years. The volume of data would
be immense, and pretty pointless. The expansion of "and the data is
then sold to advertisers" just smells a bit too much like tinfoil-hat
type material."

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 May 2006 09:33:00 GMT, Erik wrote:
In article %nJ5g.11440$t_2.8180@trnddc07,


I heard they found OJ Simpson by his cell phone. Apparently cell phones
communicate every few seconds with the network, even when just in the
on/standby mode, so the network always knows which cell site the phone
is closest too. They saw his phone moving from cell site to cell site
located along a freeway, giving john law a good general area to focus
on....






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