Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...
Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

Whatcha gonna weld?

Steel. Mostly small parts and fixtures, with a few workbenches thrown in
[;-)].

reader wrote:
"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...
Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

Whatcha gonna weld?

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:51:06 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

Thermite doesn't use any gas.

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:34:27 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:
reader wrote:
"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...

Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

Whatcha gonna weld?

Steel. Mostly small parts and fixtures, with a few workbenches thrown in
[;-)].

Wirefeed - either fluxcore or MIG gas shielded. It's easy to learn,
supplies and consumables are not inexpensive, gives good results.

If you are going to make those workbenches out of heavy gauge angle
and tube, go for one of the smaller 220VAC input, 200A plus welding
output units (Miller MillerMatic 210 or 251 or similar) and here's
why...

It's better to get the biggest machine you can afford and envision
using now, because as you learn and start doing bigger things, you
quickly outgrow the 'baby' 120VAC input, 100A output class MIG welders
- though they do have their places, like for tossing into the back of
the truck to weld gate hardware and erect wrought iron fence panels.

And you get much nicer results with gas shielding, so get a welder
already equipped for it. Straight CO2 is cheap for steel work, other
argon or helium mixed shield gases are not - but you need the gas
shielding for trickier materials like stainless and aluminum.

And watch the Duty Cycle ratings, the better welders have 50% to
100% duty cycle (depending on the output setting) meaning you can keep
working till you're done. With a 10% duty cycle you do one or two
welds and then have to stop and let the equipment cool.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

True, thermite uses no gas, but are you referring to using thermite to
weld metal, like on railroads? Not the kind of chemical reaction I'd
want in my building... My little Kidde fire extinguisher won't do too
good with thermite...

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:51:06 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

Thermite doesn't use any gas.

Wow. Lookit the prices... I feel like I want to rewire for 220v finally.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:34:27 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:
reader wrote:
"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...

Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.
Whatcha gonna weld?
Steel. Mostly small parts and fixtures, with a few workbenches thrown in
[;-)].

Wirefeed - either fluxcore or MIG gas shielded. It's easy to learn,
supplies and consumables are not inexpensive, gives good results.

If you are going to make those workbenches out of heavy gauge angle
and tube, go for one of the smaller 220VAC input, 200A plus welding
output units (Miller MillerMatic 210 or 251 or similar) and here's
why...

It's better to get the biggest machine you can afford and envision
using now, because as you learn and start doing bigger things, you
quickly outgrow the 'baby' 120VAC input, 100A output class MIG welders
- though they do have their places, like for tossing into the back of
the truck to weld gate hardware and erect wrought iron fence panels.

And you get much nicer results with gas shielding, so get a welder
already equipped for it. Straight CO2 is cheap for steel work, other
argon or helium mixed shield gases are not - but you need the gas
shielding for trickier materials like stainless and aluminum.

And watch the Duty Cycle ratings, the better welders have 50% to
100% duty cycle (depending on the output setting) meaning you can keep
working till you're done. With a 10% duty cycle you do one or two
welds and then have to stop and let the equipment cool.

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 08:05:01 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

True, thermite uses no gas, but are you referring to using thermite to
weld metal, like on railroads? Not the kind of chemical reaction I'd
want in my building... My little Kidde fire extinguisher won't do too
good with thermite...

That was tongue-in-cheek, Louis. A visit to a welding store or an
hour with a welding text would quickly inform you about the various
welding processes and equipment that suit his needs and wants, and
what compromises are entailed by setting arbitrary constraints like
"no gas". I wouldn't want thermite in my shop either, but it does
meet the given constraints.

Fluxcore wire meets the constraint , but fluxcore wire isn't free
either. While it might be OK for workbenches, it may not be suitable
for small parts and fixtures. Gas can actually be quite inexpensive
for small work because a little gas goes a long way when silverbrazing
(or even welding) small parts and fixtures. CO2 for MIG (steel
only) is quite inexpensive. Argon for TIG is considerably pricier
than oxygen, acetylene or CO2.

Stick is inexpensive, no gas, great for workbenches but again not
suitable for small work unless you're quite skilled. Few skilled
welders would use stick as first choice for small jobs.

I was referring to flammable gases... One thing about the fluxcore is
that some varieties should not be used in an enclosed space. Then again,
CO2 can be bad as well, but it's non-combustible...

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 08:05:01 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

True, thermite uses no gas, but are you referring to using thermite to
weld metal, like on railroads? Not the kind of chemical reaction I'd
want in my building... My little Kidde fire extinguisher won't do too
good with thermite...

That was tongue-in-cheek, Louis. A visit to a welding store or an
hour with a welding text would quickly inform you about the various
welding processes and equipment that suit his needs and wants, and
what compromises are entailed by setting arbitrary constraints like
"no gas". I wouldn't want thermite in my shop either, but it does
meet the given constraints.

Fluxcore wire meets the constraint , but fluxcore wire isn't free
either. While it might be OK for workbenches, it may not be suitable
for small parts and fixtures. Gas can actually be quite inexpensive
for small work because a little gas goes a long way when silverbrazing
(or even welding) small parts and fixtures. CO2 for MIG (steel
only) is quite inexpensive. Argon for TIG is considerably pricier
than oxygen, acetylene or CO2.

Stick is inexpensive, no gas, great for workbenches but again not
suitable for small work unless you're quite skilled. Few skilled
welders would use stick as first choice for small jobs.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:03:44 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

I was referring to flammable gases... One thing about the fluxcore is
that some varieties should not be used in an enclosed space. Then again,
CO2 can be bad as well, but it's non-combustible...

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 08:05:01 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

True, thermite uses no gas, but are you referring to using thermite to
weld metal, like on railroads? Not the kind of chemical reaction I'd
want in my building... My little Kidde fire extinguisher won't do too
good with thermite...

That was tongue-in-cheek, Louis. A visit to a welding store or an
hour with a welding text would quickly inform you about the various
welding processes and equipment that suit his needs and wants, and
what compromises are entailed by setting arbitrary constraints like
"no gas". I wouldn't want thermite in my shop either, but it does
meet the given constraints.

Fluxcore wire meets the constraint , but fluxcore wire isn't free
either. While it might be OK for workbenches, it may not be suitable
for small parts and fixtures. Gas can actually be quite inexpensive
for small work because a little gas goes a long way when silverbrazing
(or even welding) small parts and fixtures. CO2 for MIG (steel
only) is quite inexpensive. Argon for TIG is considerably pricier
than oxygen, acetylene or CO2.

Stick is inexpensive, no gas, great for workbenches but again not
suitable for small work unless you're quite skilled. Few skilled
welders would use stick as first choice for small jobs.
If I could only have one type of welder it would be oxy-acetylene. For
me it's the most versatile. I suppose acetylene gas indoors might be
dangerous but probably not any more than natural gas appliances. And
the acetylene bottle could always be kept outside except when in use.
ERS

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:03:44 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

I was referring to flammable gases... One thing about the fluxcore is
that some varieties should not be used in an enclosed space. Then again,
CO2 can be bad as well, but it's non-combustible...

If your concern is not using flammable gases or shielding gases
because you work inside, you can easily rig up a welding table with an
exhaust fan to vent all the nastiness outside - the gases you start
with are nothing compared to all the stuff outgassing from the fluxes
and various metals while you weld. Like vaporized Zinc fumes from
welding galvanized steel - suck that in and you'll have some problems.

If your main concern is about storing Oxygen and Acetylene cylinders
inside, it can be done safely with reasonable care inside a properly
built garage - one that has the US Uniform Building Code required
cross ventilation grilles, and a turbine ventilator or two on the roof
to ensure free ventilation and prevent extreme heat buildup.

Of course if you're in a condo or apartment with no garage, this can
cause problems... This is when you start looking for cheap rental
space in an industrial park for your workspace, or approach the Condo
Board about renting that unused maintenance shop/storeroom out back.

I've saved a few small furnace blowers for making a fume exhauster -
you can use a register boot adapter to change the square output port
into a round duct, and then a simple length of flexible ducting to the
nearest window or wall, and a 6" wall vent hood assembly.

The big trick is that you need a steady diffused draft over the
welding work table, not a hurricane - much lower flow than if the
exhausted work table was being used as a paint spray booth. If you
can feel a breeze, you will have problems with the fluxcore or CO2
shielding gases staying over the weld long enough to be effective.

This is why furnace blowers are nice - they're multi-speed. Rig it
with an Off-High-Med-Low switch, and the same booth can do double duty
as a paint booth or a weld booth *IF* it's a belt-drive blower where
the motor is out of the air stream. An air-over motor might be the
ignition source if it's surrounded by high-test lacquer thinner fumes.

(And the other measures apply for a paint booth - line it with
sheetmetal to contain a flash paint/solvent fire, seal the overhead
fluorescent light behind a big sheet of Lexan plastic or tempered
glass to keep the paint fumes away from the fixture, use disposable
furnace filters to catch the paint overspray. And have two big [10 or
20-lb] professional class ABC fire extinguishers handy, though if you
rig it for sprinklers you can make them medium size [2.5 or 5-lb]. Go
look at how they build a professional booth, and scale it down.)

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:03:44 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

I was referring to flammable gases... One thing about the fluxcore is
that some varieties should not be used in an enclosed space. Then again,
CO2 can be bad as well, but it's non-combustible...

All welding requires good ventilation. Stick welding and fluxcore
welding, niether of which use gas, require considerably more
ventilation than other processes. I won't use either process
anywhere but outdoors, not to say that I never have. I used to stick
weld in the garage during winter, had a 3600 CFM monster fan
exhausting the fumes and forget about comfortable temps because no
heater could keep up with the ventilation. Tawk about gas cost!

I routinely do MIG, TIG and O/A in an enclosed space with modest but
adequate ventilation even midwinter in Minnesota.

On , Louis Ohland wrote:


NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:51:08 MST
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:51:06 -0500

Looking for advice on welders. I am not hot on oxy-acetaline due to
it's ise of gas.

In my case, a Propane TurboTorch has pretty well replaced my O/A
torch. The TurboTorch is not quite as hot as O/A but, hot enough for
silver soldering. Also, propane is safer, not as expensive to operate
as O/A, and available at odd hours at the corner gas station -- no
more running out of gas on the weekend and waiting till Monday for a
specialty gas supplier to open for business.

I have this one:
http://www.thermadyne.com/turbotorch...dfs/Page10.pdf
I'm quite happy with it. Run it off a 20# propane tank.