Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden them?

Other ideas?

A lot of woodworkers do this allready.
Most use corrugated backed hss for the job.
Nothing quite has the pucker factor of a shaper knife whizzing across
the shop,
Just remember the profile cut in the wood is at a tangent to the
profile that you cut into the tool so that you may have to do some
geometry to get a perfect match.
You will have to buy some decent grinding wheels but it's not rocket
science.

I make them all the time. For big ones I use A2 tool steel, grind to
shape, harden them up. For smaller ones I just grind a profile on some
prehardened stock. But getting 3 cutters to match is an art form. And
getting the various transitions (concave to convex and back) can be an
issue. Likewise tiny nicks that can hardly be felt will leave nice lines
on your finished stock. Net: Looks easy, works fine, not as easy as it
looks.

HotRod wrote:
Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden them?

Other ideas?

HotRod wrote:

Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden them?

Other ideas?

I think it's fair to call it possible, just not very practical. Getting
three to look good is quite less challenging that to get three
identically shaped, sharp, and balanced.

The guys I know that are looking for custom profiles are buying blank
bits and having them ground by a CNC sharpening shop. At about $20 per
grind, and whatever the blank costs, it's still much cheaper than the
vet bills to fix the hole from one of these coming apart at speed.

Pretty much anything that you can get that can be hardened easilly at
home will also get soft in a hurry as it heats up if used to cut while
its a bit dull.

Starrett sells flat, ground, tool steel. This would work for what you
describe, the hardening instructions are usually printed on the wrapper,
and it comes in several types (air, oil, water hardening).

Tool supply outfits sell High Speed Steel tool blanks that could be cut
up for a job like this and silver soldered to a base, then profiled. I
suppose that with care, one could build a balanced single toothed cutter
that could work pretty well, if at reduced feed rates.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

HotRod wrote:

Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I
thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to
rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to
clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I
be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden
them?

This is a pretty simple job on a surface grinder, but that's not a tool
you'd likely have in a woodworking shop.

If the steel is annealed first, you can glue (Locktite) and clamp all three
bits together, and file your profile in them. If you use some hardened
guide strips clamped to the face and back of the stack, it's not so hard to
get all three blades to the same profile heights. You'll probably have to
move the guides numerous times as you work along the profiles. This is
similar to the technique machinists use with "filing buttons" and other
similar hardened profile guides.

Then, of course, you must relieve the backs of the cutting edges. That can
be done _carefully_ with a file, making sure you never quite file all the
way to the cutting edge -- itsy, bitsy, gently filing right UP to the edge
but not past, lest you change the profile. You'll find this is a much
touchier job than the profile cuts.

Then you have to re-harden them.

Are you SURE it's not less expensive to buy the cutters? G

LLoyd

Can you explain the tangent part? I guessed that I just needed to make a
reverse profile of my wood and then bevel the edge.


wrote in message
ups.com...
A lot of woodworkers do this allready.
Most use corrugated backed hss for the job.
Nothing quite has the pucker factor of a shaper knife whizzing across
the shop,
Just remember the profile cut in the wood is at a tangent to the
profile that you cut into the tool so that you may have to do some
geometry to get a perfect match.
You will have to buy some decent grinding wheels but it's not rocket
science.

"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...
I make them all the time. For big ones I use A2 tool steel, grind to
shape, harden them up. For smaller ones I just grind a profile on some
prehardened stock. But getting 3 cutters to match is an art form. And
getting the various transitions (concave to convex and back) can be an
issue. Likewise tiny nicks that can hardly be felt will leave nice lines
on your finished stock. Net: Looks easy, works fine, not as easy as it
looks.

HotRod wrote:


I used D-2 when I made mine years ago.
I clamped all 3 up in a vice at the major relief that I thought I wanted,
then ground the form on my surface grinder. I came back and added more
relief where I thought they needed it with a dremil.

Actually I'll be dong the work in my shop that has a large grinder, welders
and air tools. But since I've never made bits I was wondering what the
process was.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
...

HotRod wrote:

Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I
thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to
rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to
clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I
be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden
them?

This is a pretty simple job on a surface grinder, but that's not a tool
you'd likely have in a woodworking shop.

If the steel is annealed first, you can glue (Locktite) and clamp all
three bits together, and file your profile in them. If you use some
hardened guide strips clamped to the face and back of the stack, it's not
so hard to get all three blades to the same profile heights. You'll
probably have to move the guides numerous times as you work along the
profiles. This is similar to the technique machinists use with "filing
buttons" and other similar hardened profile guides.

Then, of course, you must relieve the backs of the cutting edges. That
can be done _carefully_ with a file, making sure you never quite file all
the way to the cutting edge -- itsy, bitsy, gently filing right UP to the
edge but not past, lest you change the profile. You'll find this is a
much touchier job than the profile cuts.

Then you have to re-harden them.

Are you SURE it's not less expensive to buy the cutters? G

LLoyd

Dave, how did your bits stand up? What is D-2? I'm going to look at having
them professionally made and also look at buying an assortment of bits that
will get me the profile I want but was wondering if maybe I could do it
myself.



"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:Ksp3g.916933$x96.173848@attbi_s72...

"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...
I make them all the time. For big ones I use A2 tool steel, grind to
shape, harden them up. For smaller ones I just grind a profile on some
prehardened stock. But getting 3 cutters to match is an art form. And
getting the various transitions (concave to convex and back) can be an
issue. Likewise tiny nicks that can hardly be felt will leave nice lines
on your finished stock. Net: Looks easy, works fine, not as easy as it
looks.

HotRod wrote:


I used D-2 when I made mine years ago.
I clamped all 3 up in a vice at the major relief that I thought I wanted,
then ground the form on my surface grinder. I came back and added more
relief where I thought they needed it with a dremil.

"HotRod" wrote in message
...
Dave, how did your bits stand up? What is D-2? I'm going to look at
having
them professionally made and also look at buying an assortment of bits
that
will get me the profile I want but was wondering if maybe I could do it
myself.




My bits held up very well for a guy that didn't do much woodworking. I only
made my own because I couldn't find the profile that I wanted.

D-2 is a very hard tool steel. It is difficult to machine before heat treat,
after heat treat, you can't file it or use any conventional tools on it. I'm
sure you could find some in Mcmaster-Carr. You could also use A-2 with
similar results. Please understand that a surface grinder is not a hand held
tool. It is a precision grinder. It would take some extreme craftsmanship to
be able to make good blades completely by hand.

Whatever you make yourself will not hold up nearly as well as the carbide
tools you can buy at the woodworking store.

HotRod wrote in article
...
Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I
thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to
rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to
clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I
be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden
them?

Other ideas?



I realize that I'm probably talking apples/oranges here - shaper versus
lathe - but I have been successful in making lathe tool bits from cutoff
pieces of auto and truck spring leaves.

I read about it in a magazine somewhere, and I have a friend who operates
an auto/truck spring shop.

I was at his place one afternoon and mentioned the need for some some small
cutoffs.

Before I knew it, I had about 20 pounds of near-square cutoff ends ranging
up to three-inches in width and one-half-inch in thickness.

While I have a large number of conventional tool bits, one thing I have
done is to grind a handle profile into one cutoff and I use it for a
one-shot cut of an aluminum file handle.

Just something to think about.

I'm going to figure out some prices and then see where I stand. If I need to
purchase a small grinder wheel to use in my drill press to set the tapper /
angle or what ever it's called what should I be looking for? Any idea's on
balancing them?


"HotRod" wrote in message
...
Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I
thought about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder
to rough cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press
to clean then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal
should I be looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me
to harden them?

Other ideas?

"HotRod" wrote in message
...
I'm going to figure out some prices and then see where I stand. If I need
to
purchase a small grinder wheel to use in my drill press to set the tapper
/
angle or what ever it's called what should I be looking for? Any idea's on
balancing them?


You won't have good luck with that. Your drill press does not have enough
rpm, or rigidity to do a good job.

If you make them all the same, they must be balanced. If you don't, your
finish will be bad, and you could even damage your shaper/plane.

Dave Lyon wrote:

"HotRod" wrote in message
...


I'm going to figure out some prices and then see where I stand. If I need


to


purchase a small grinder wheel to use in my drill press to set the tapper


/


angle or what ever it's called what should I be looking for? Any idea's on
balancing them?




You won't have good luck with that. Your drill press does not have enough
rpm, or rigidity to do a good job.

If you make them all the same, they must be balanced. If you don't, your
finish will be bad, and you could even damage your shaper/plane.




Agreed. It's not that you can't, it's just tough to get good results.
To do it right, you need to first make an EXCELLENT template to follow
and they need to be cut similar to a key machine where the final
grinding all matches the pattern (pattern follower system)...then of
course balanced REALLY well.

A hunk of unbalanced steel spinning at 12,000 rpm will vibrate any
clamping system loose in a hurry. They fly really well and do some
serious damage also...good tooling for your enemies

Koz

I've read all the replies so far and I have a few questions:
What is your shaper, shaft size, horsepower, RPM?
What is the finished shape?
What is the material?
How many linear feet?
Do you have shaper collars? 2-wing? 3-wing?
Do you have a video camera?

"HotRod" wrote in message
...
Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I
thought about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder
to rough cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press
to clean then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal
should I be looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me
to harden them?

Other ideas?

wrote:
A lot of woodworkers do this allready.
Most use corrugated backed hss for the job.
Nothing quite has the pucker factor of a shaper knife whizzing across
the shop,
Just remember the profile cut in the wood is at a tangent to the
profile that you cut into the tool so that you may have to do some
geometry to get a perfect match.
You will have to buy some decent grinding wheels but it's not rocket
science.

I work in a cabinet shop ... We recently acquired a machine specifically
designed for this task . It uses a mandrel that holds the shaper/molder head
, and a 2D pantograph setup . It also has coolant flowing on the steel while
grinding , and is set up to automatically give the correct bevel on the
knives . We use corrugated backed HSS for most of our knives ... and all
knives are balanced to each other .
Unless you're looking for uncommon profiles , there are many places that
sell preground knives . All things considered , safety being the biggest
factor if I were in your (Hotrod , not bamboo) situation , I'd buy them .
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

What is the name of the machine you are using? Model? I was at Busy Bee the
other day and noticed that they have a 12" planner / mold maker that will
take blades and am running the costs rights now to see if it works. I am
interested in making my own blades though.


"Snag" wrote in message
...
wrote:
A lot of woodworkers do this allready.
Most use corrugated backed hss for the job.
Nothing quite has the pucker factor of a shaper knife whizzing across
the shop,
Just remember the profile cut in the wood is at a tangent to the
profile that you cut into the tool so that you may have to do some
geometry to get a perfect match.
You will have to buy some decent grinding wheels but it's not rocket
science.

I work in a cabinet shop ... We recently acquired a machine specifically
designed for this task . It uses a mandrel that holds the shaper/molder
head , and a 2D pantograph setup . It also has coolant flowing on the
steel while grinding , and is set up to automatically give the correct
bevel on the knives . We use corrugated backed HSS for most of our knives
... and all knives are balanced to each other .
Unless you're looking for uncommon profiles , there are many places that
sell preground knives . All things considered , safety being the biggest
factor if I were in your (Hotrod , not bamboo) situation , I'd buy them
.
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:59:31 -0400, HotRod wrote:

Since I havn't done much metal working thought I'd ask the pro's here. I
need to make some cutting bits to work with on my wood shaper and I was
wondering if you guys thing it's possible to do this at home. What I thought
about doing is purchasing some steel and then using a die grinder to rough
cut the "three identical" bits. Then I'd use my large drill press to clean
then up and set the cutting angle. Is this possible? What metal should I be
looking for that would allow for machining and then allow me to harden them?

Other ideas?

Fine Woodworking - in one of their books of collected articles - had a good
article on doing exactly this, including how to calculate the shape to give
you the right profile at the end.
Geoff