couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????

1) I'm all for fixing stuff that is fixable and worth fixing - no sense
throwing away something valuable ...however

2) Having saiid that, one needs to keep constantly in mind that the single
most valuable thing one has is ones life, and that it is made up only of
time. It was a bit heartbreaking to hear how you fooled around with a
ceiling fan switch for most of a day, and at the end of it all, all you had
was a ceiling fan switch. This was an entire day in your one-and-only
life...

3) Here's what I think is the problem:

a) Work is naturally made for a man and a man is made for work, but not for
its own sake - useless work is an empty life.

b) The hardest work is not the labor itself, but rather the comprehensive
prioritizing of what to do in context of overall life goals, and then the
consistent follow-through on those priorities - all in consideration of the
shortness of life and the limits of ones personal energy.

c) The reason so many men end up puttering in essentially useless projects
is because: they feel the need to work, but haven't done the hard work of
analyzing their overall objectives. An empty life gnaws at them, and the
"comfort-food" they seek in response is what amounts to essentially
meaningless activity as distraction. The result is that one decides to waste
a day of ones one-and-only life to tear down and overhaul the $2 valve or
the $3 switch.

4) I'd say: do some heavy lifting what you want your life to account for
in the end. You already know you need to do this, the indicator of which is
that you "feel bad" in response to the innate knowledge that a day in your
life traded for a $3 switch was a tragic waste.

...Or maybe this is just obsessive-compulsive disorder that expresses itself
in compulsive fixing and puttering......

The other day my wife and I were at Office Max where she wanted to look at a
tape dispenser. The one that held the larger rolls of tape cost $40. She
balked at the price, and I said that I would make her one. The next day a
frame was procured from some surplus aluminum sheet from an obsolete piece
of hospital equipment. Bent in the brake, shaped and filed, the pieces were
then TIG welded into a box. The wheel for the tape was the end cap from an
old motor complete with ball bearing. The axle was turned from a piece of
1" round bar and then the ends were turned down to ride in the slots in the
box. It was pressed into the bearing. A piece of fine tooth hacksaw blade
pinched between the frame and another chunk of aluminum became the cutter.

She was tickled to death and I got to see the big smile on her face. For my
part, I got to bend, weld, machine and think while I tinkered. This took
half a day off. I can't create work for myself on days off, so I figure my
time is worthless in terms of money but priceless in terms of doing fun
stuff like this.

--
Larry Bailey
Illegitimi non carborundum


"jim" wrote in message ...
couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????

For the past 125 years we manufactured wire brushes that mostly went into
the Do-it-yourself market. People don't fix stuff anymore and we have had
to shift to food service and heavy industrial. The whole cultural lifestyle
has changed, products don't lend themselves to home repair, products aren't
made to last very long and new-better-cheaper import replacements are just a
trip to Wall-Mart away.


"jim" wrote in message ...
couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:49:20 GMT, jim wrote:

===couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
===tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
===good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
===bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
===was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
===is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
===think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
===and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
===easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
===which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
===and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
===kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
===kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
===figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
===and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
===apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
===together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
===shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
===took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
===switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
===after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
===this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
===them????

There is nothing much more that I like doing than making items thatw
ere deemed unserviceable serviceable or turing junk into useable
items. Its called being frugal.

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

"jim" wrote in message ...

took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????

It's the affliction of most of the people here, I'll bet. I spent a whole
morning building up worn hinges, with O/A and welding rod, on our kitchen
cabinets. I think replacements would have cost me less than $5. g

Ed Huntress

What a sad dissertation on the value of life. Pierre what do you do to
occupy the time that you are not out saving the world, or feeding the
hungry? What do you say to the man who spends a day fishing, or surfing, or
the gal who spends a day shopping and comes home with nothing. Damn you
just wasted another day in your short life. Its not about the $2 switch,
Its about challenging the mind. Can I do this.

Sometimes I just sit on the front porch and watch the sun come up,
sometimes I hike to the top of the hill and watch the whole valley come to
life. Is that a waste of my time given here on earth? No its time doing
what I want to do. An old saying my dad has..."God has given each man here
so many days on earth, but he doesn't count the days he goes fishing." Now
you can substitute whatever you want for fishing but it still rings true.
You can't do 100% work and live a very good life. Take a bit of time to
just watch the grass grow, or fix a $2 switch, its OK.
lg
no neat sig line


"Pierre Bongo" wrote in message
news:b3LXb.39032$yE5.139130@attbi_s54...

1) I'm all for fixing stuff that is fixable and worth fixing - no sense
throwing away something valuable ...however

2) Having saiid that, one needs to keep constantly in mind that the single
most valuable thing one has is ones life, and that it is made up only of
time. It was a bit heartbreaking to hear how you fooled around with a
ceiling fan switch for most of a day, and at the end of it all, all you
had
was a ceiling fan switch. This was an entire day in your one-and-only
life...

3) Here's what I think is the problem:

a) Work is naturally made for a man and a man is made for work, but not
for
its own sake - useless work is an empty life.

b) The hardest work is not the labor itself, but rather the comprehensive
prioritizing of what to do in context of overall life goals, and then the
consistent follow-through on those priorities - all in consideration of
the
shortness of life and the limits of ones personal energy.

c) The reason so many men end up puttering in essentially useless projects
is because: they feel the need to work, but haven't done the hard work of
analyzing their overall objectives. An empty life gnaws at them, and the
"comfort-food" they seek in response is what amounts to essentially
meaningless activity as distraction. The result is that one decides to
waste
a day of ones one-and-only life to tear down and overhaul the $2 valve or
the $3 switch.

4) I'd say: do some heavy lifting what you want your life to account
for
in the end. You already know you need to do this, the indicator of which
is
that you "feel bad" in response to the innate knowledge that a day in your
life traded for a $3 switch was a tragic waste.

..Or maybe this is just obsessive-compulsive disorder that expresses
itself
in compulsive fixing and puttering......

Pierre Bongo wrote: (clip)Having saiid that, one needs to keep constantly
in mind that the single most valuable thing one has is ones life, and that
it is made up only of time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your analysis is very rational, but it does not account for the differences
in people's attitudes toward how they spend their time. I often spend more
time on a "fixin'" project than the value of the project seems to justify.
But, at the end I have the satisfaction of accomplishment, and the
additional experience that I gained. Is the enjoyment one gets by working
against the mental and physical challenges of a trivial repair job less
valid than, say, the enjoyment one could get by skiing or golfing?

When I buy, the problem usually shows up again shortly. When I fix it, it
stays fixed because I also fix the basic problem rather than just getting
another fresh one.
You're talking to the few left that actually would consider repairing than
replacing in this group.

--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works every time it is tried!

"jim" wrote in message ...
couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????


I'm with you. I have a "can do" "fix-it" mentality. Plus, often you're able
to fix it into a better than new condition. Never to die again. I would
much rather fix something than buy another one.

Lane

In article ,
lane lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote:

"jim" wrote in message ...
couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????


I'm with you. I have a "can do" "fix-it" mentality. Plus, often you're able
to fix it into a better than new condition. Never to die again. I would
much rather fix something than buy another one.

Lane



Count me in for the "fix-it" crowd.

I will often try to fix something rather than replace for a number of
reasons.

First of all is the challenge. Can I figure out what is wrong and figure out
how to make it right. This step is free. Some people do crossword puzzles, I
diagnose broke stuff...

Second, depending on what you are starting with, sometimes the repair is at
least as good, or better than the original. Stripped threads in that
aluminum bit that lasted 30 years? The helicoil will make it go at least
another 30. A new one won't last 5.

Third, aesthetics. I like the aerodynamic toasters. Nicrome wire is cheap
compared to finding anything close to the look of that old toaster.
Sometimes, this plan fails as you get into the repair and the mica falls
apart on you. Old hinges may just look right compared to new hinges. If all
it takes is cleaning them up and maybe reaming and fitting new pins it can
be well worth it. People with more money than we have pay big bucks for this
sort of service... refiting antiques to working order for use in their new
houses.

Fourth, cost. Sometimes it is very worth it to rebuild/repair/replace the
ailing part than to get a new one. Most people won't even look into a repair
any more. Heck, I know people that buy new cars instead of replacing the
clutch. I have gotten many very good higher-quality-than-you-can-get-now
items from people because they were "broke" and a few simple repairs brought
them back to life.

Fifth, servicability. If I could fix it before, I can fix it again.

Ok, some of these are kinda strange and may be null arguments, but that is
the thought here.

Now, a $3 switch, I would have just replaced that...

-- Joe

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff
Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

On 15 Feb 2004 14:59:04 -0500, wrote:

SNIP

Fourth, cost. Sometimes it is very worth it to rebuild/repair/replace the
ailing part than to get a new one. Most people won't even look into a repair
any more. Heck, I know people that buy new cars instead of replacing the
clutch. I have gotten many very good higher-quality-than-you-can-get-now
items from people because they were "broke" and a few simple repairs brought
them back to life.

Fifth, servicability. If I could fix it before, I can fix it again.

Ok, some of these are kinda strange and may be null arguments, but that is
the thought here.

Now, a $3 switch, I would have just replaced that...

-- Joe

Some of my favorite "got it cheap broken and enjoyed fixing it"
stories a

The $250 .22 rifle I bought for $30 and straightened the extractor.
Works great.

The $200 ethernet print server that was being thrown out because the
12VDC power supply was missing...one out of my junk box in the
basement worked fine, after I bypassed a broken power supply lead on
the circuit board.

The IBM Thinkpad I picked up at a yard sale for $25, then used for 2
years after reseating the hard drive. Still have it, but it got to be
too slow.

The Milwaukee fixed-base router I got at a yard sale for $12, then
replaced the brushes on. Sitting in my router table for the last 2
years.

Shop Vac - yard sale $5, hose cannibalized from a dead one, works fine
now.

Nasty dirty SKS rifle with a cracked stock, bought at a pawn shop for
$25, cleaned up and installed a stock I got from a friend who was
putting a plastic stock on his. Shoots great now.

Old Sears 3-wheel benchtop bandsaw - $20 at a flea market, cleaned it
up, put a new switch on it, works fine for light-duty stuff.

There is a certain satisfaction in noodling out and fixing problems,
especially if I have to "fake it" with what I happen to have in the
shop.

Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

A half an hour spent fixing a part that only costs $5 versus $5 for the part
and a half hour drive to the hardware store plus gas and wear and tear on the
vehicle. ??? I think I will stay at home in my nice warm shop; fix the problem
and keep my $5..
DL

jim wrote:

couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
think you gonna have to do this again??? i realized that for the time
and energy that i was gonna put into this job that i could have just as
easily walked to the hardware store and for a few bucks got new stuff,
which i did.... i just have it in my mind that something needs fixing
and i can do it, so why buy new if the old stuff still works.........
kinda hard to get off of this way of thinking......
kinda like the time a ceiling fan switch lost its chain pull... i
figured i would get a new switch... went to three local hardware stores
and none thad them... i then drilled out the rivets to take the switch
apart.. then had to make some screws long enough to put the switch back
together..... took a long time do do with the screws(finally used the
shafts of the rivets that i put in the die to put on some threads.....
took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????
thanks for all the replies about being cheap/fixing stuff.. i posted
this on the honda automobile newsgroup by mistake and just about every
answer i got was why waste your time, some said old people would do this
but not them??? i guess they are younger??? me in my late 50's.. but
would like to be in my 20's again so i can refer to someone as old
people.....

friend who is a doctor said his dad was a mechanic and had his own
shop/business. he said that he can thank his dad for being a doctor
today as when he was a kid he worked in the shop and he was always given
the crap jobs like cleaning something or taking it apart but he never
would get to assemble something and get it working again..he did not
ever get the satisfaction of fixing anything....and hated every minute
that he was in that shop...

Mike, I agree with you on every point. One of the pleasures in owning
something is "beating the system."

I'm with you. I have a "can do" "fix-it" mentality. Plus, often you're able
to fix it into a better than new condition. Never to die again. I would
much rather fix something than buy another one.

I have a saying "I won't own anything I can't fix myself" which is
getting harder to do in today's disposable world.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:54:34 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
brought forth from the murky depths:


Pierre Bongo wrote: (clip)Having saiid that, one needs to keep constantly
in mind that the single most valuable thing one has is ones life, and that
it is made up only of time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your analysis is very rational, but it does not account for the differences
in people's attitudes toward how they spend their time. I often spend more
time on a "fixin'" project than the value of the project seems to justify.
But, at the end I have the satisfaction of accomplishment, and the
additional experience that I gained. Is the enjoyment one gets by working
against the mental and physical challenges of a trivial repair job less
valid than, say, the enjoyment one could get by skiing or golfing?

I much prefer the challenge of building/fixing something to that
of sports. I'm not real competitive so it works out.

There's also the time/money factor. A person with one usually
doesn't have much of the other. Unfortunately, I usually have
too much time on my hands. :-(


--
Impeach 'em ALL!
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

I have a saying "I won't own anything I can't fix myself" which is
getting harder to do in today's disposable world.

Pretty much impossible these days. I can think of several things I own that
I wouldn't know how or have the equipment to fix; most electronic type stuff
like the TV, stereo, telephone, DVD player, and refrigeration items like the
refrigerator, freezer and house heat pump.

One other thing that I have paid for in the past that I could have done, was
paint the exterior of our house at the time. Number one, I hate painting
houses, and number two it was a two story house and I hate being at the top
of tall ladders. And most importantly I got a very reasonable bid from
someone who does very good work.

Lane

Gunluvver2 wrote:
A half an hour spent fixing a part that only costs $5 versus $5 for the part
and a half hour drive to the hardware store plus gas and wear and tear on the
vehicle. ??? I think I will stay at home in my nice warm shop; fix the problem
and keep my $5..

Then again...
I've got a breadmaker, it's on its third replacement.
However, it came with a 3 year warranty, cost very little, and I go to
the shop I bought it in every week.

The design seems to fail after around 3 sacks of flour.
It has an agitator on the bottom, which has a teflon labyrinth seal
protecting a sleeve bearing.
This is heated to around 170C every time.
For the first 40 loaves or so, it works fine.
After that, you can't use timer mode, as the water all drains out.
(but I never use that mode anyway).
Then it gets gradually worse until the agitator starts hitting the
bottom of the pan, due to the horrible slop in the bearing.

Certainly a POS, but at least I get the satisfaction of maybe convincing
the maker a little bit to upgrade the bearing.
Plus nice warm bread every day, that I know exactly what's in.

And I can't actually work out how I could make a seal that lasts "forever".
(say 5000 loaves, not 200)

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Then again...
I've got a breadmaker, it's on its third replacement.
However, it came with a 3 year warranty, cost very little, and I go to
the shop I bought it in every week.

The design seems to fail after around 3 sacks of flour.
It has an agitator on the bottom, which has a teflon labyrinth seal
protecting a sleeve bearing.
This is heated to around 170C every time.
For the first 40 loaves or so, it works fine.

I've got a thing for the first-generation Hitachi bread machines. Way
over-built. In 15 years I've made a couple thousand loaves. Mostly baked
in the machine, sometimes just mixed and then baked in the wood stove.
Around $.25 per loaf.

I've never even tried any of the (cheap) new machines. The Hitachi pans
last for maybe 500-1000 loaves before the bearing siezes. Have never had
one leak.

You can buy a new bread machine for less than Hitachi gets for a replacement
pan. So I find good used machines at thrift stores and ebay and typically
get a good machine and pan for $25. Figure most of these ever sold just
don't get used.

One of these days I'll study the exotic plastics at McMaster and will try
making a new bearing.

Bob

Pierre Bongo wrote:

1) I'm all for fixing stuff that is fixable and worth fixing - no sense
throwing away something valuable ...however

2) Having saiid that, one needs to keep constantly in mind that the single
most valuable thing one has is ones life, and that it is made up only of
time. It was a bit heartbreaking to hear how you fooled around with a
ceiling fan switch for most of a day, and at the end of it all, all you had
was a ceiling fan switch. This was an entire day in your one-and-only
life...

3) Here's what I think is the problem:

a) Work is naturally made for a man and a man is made for work, but not for
its own sake - useless work is an empty life.

b) The hardest work is not the labor itself, but rather the comprehensive
prioritizing of what to do in context of overall life goals, and then the
consistent follow-through on those priorities - all in consideration of the
shortness of life and the limits of ones personal energy.

c) The reason so many men end up puttering in essentially useless projects
is because: they feel the need to work, but haven't done the hard work of
analyzing their overall objectives. An empty life gnaws at them, and the
"comfort-food" they seek in response is what amounts to essentially
meaningless activity as distraction. The result is that one decides to waste
a day of ones one-and-only life to tear down and overhaul the $2 valve or
the $3 switch.

4) I'd say: do some heavy lifting what you want your life to account for
in the end. You already know you need to do this, the indicator of which is
that you "feel bad" in response to the innate knowledge that a day in your
life traded for a $3 switch was a tragic waste.

..Or maybe this is just obsessive-compulsive disorder that expresses itself
in compulsive fixing and puttering......




What a bunch of psycho-babble BS.
Talk about wasting time. How long did it take you to write it.

ff

Ed Huntress wrote:

"jim" wrote in message ...

took all this time and one day out at home depot find a wall of these
switches for fans for about $3.00 each.... kinda made me feel bad
after messing with the old switch.... is anyone out there feels like
this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
them????

It's the affliction of most of the people here, I'll bet. I spent a whole
morning building up worn hinges, with O/A and welding rod, on our kitchen
cabinets. I think replacements would have cost me less than $5. g

Ed Huntress

And you attempt to come across as a rational man? You are certifiable. And if
I was there at the time, I woulda been glad to help! Maybe added some nice
bearings. Those things would swing so well they would beat the crap out of
anything in range.


michael

In article ,
"lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote:

I'm with you. I have a "can do" "fix-it" mentality. Plus, often you're able
to fix it into a better than new condition. Never to die again. I would
much rather fix something than buy another one.

There is another dimention to this. I have no problem affording new
hardware but it will cost me 1/2 day to drive into town and find it. If
I can fix it myself I save that time, and if it was a rust problem I put
on anti-sieze so it won't be rusted next time.

--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article ,
"Bob May" wrote:

When I buy, the problem usually shows up again shortly. When I fix it, it
stays fixed because I also fix the basic problem rather than just getting
another fresh one.
You're talking to the few left that actually would consider repairing than
replacing in this group.

I use a 3-step process for fixing things: I fix what broke, I make it
stronger or better, and I fix the cause.

--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

What a sad dissertation on the value of life. Pierre what do you do to
occupy the time that you are not out saving the world, or feeding the
hungry? What do you say to the man who spends a day fishing, or surfing,
or
the gal who spends a day shopping and comes home with nothing. Damn you
just wasted another day in your short life. Its not about the $2 switch,
Its about challenging the mind. Can I do this.

Look pal, he's the one who said he felt bad about ditsing around with a
switch all day. Apparently he realizes what you do not: that a $2 switch is
not, relatively speaking, a mental challenge, or a useful activity..

Is the enjoyment one gets by working
against the mental and physical challenges of a trivial repair job less
valid than, say, the enjoyment one could get by skiing or golfing?

Again, I didn't say he should feel bad - he said that for me. Skiing and
golfing are great social activities that get out out in the fresh air and
bond people together. Sitting alone all day with a $2 switch and feeling bad
about it is not simply not productive, and apparently wasn't satisfying to
him.

She was tickled to death and I got to see the big smile on her face. For
my
part, I got to bend, weld, machine and think while I tinkered.

This is a fundamentally different situation than was originally described:

"kinda made me feel bad after messing with the old switch...."

"Mike Patterson" wrote in message


On 15 Feb 2004 14:59:04 -0500, wrote:

SNIP

This makes me think of my bosses riding lawnmower. I repaired a couple
of problems with it but it was older and stuff kept wearing out so he
went out and bought a new one. A couple weeks later he asked me if I
wanted to buy it. I said no because I already had one although not as
nice as his old one. Couple weeks later he got tired of having it take
up space in the garage and asked me to just come and take it away. I did
and after rebuilding all the worn parts on the cutting deck and filling
up the hydro-static drive with oil and ended up with a great running
machine.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:52:25 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:49:20 GMT, jim wrote:

===couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
===tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
===good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
===bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
===was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
===is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
===think you gonna have to do this again???.... kinda made me feel bad
===... is anyone out there feels like this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
===them????

There is nothing much more that I like doing than making items thatw
ere deemed unserviceable serviceable or turing junk into useable
items. Its called being frugal.


I have just finished a repair job on my battery Philishave.
Batteries died after about 12 years continuous use, so I replaced it
with a mains version ($69) which is dying after about a year, so I
looked at a new battery job. $350+ no bloody way I am going to
pay that, the original only cost about $25 or about $120 in
depreciated dollars. I went to a battery shop, bought 2 x 2/3 sub-C
replacements for $20.15, soldered them in, charged them and now the
shaver is running as good as new, just in time for my trip to Japan.

wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:52:25 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:49:20 GMT, jim wrote:

===couple of months back i was replacing a gate.. cedar 1 by 6 in. 6 ft
===tall. i had some hardware on there that was about 30 yrs. old. it was
===good quality stuff but the rust kinda messed up the threads on the
===bolts and nuts.. i got out the taps and dies and told my wife that it
===was goona be a bitch to get all this rust off... she then said.. how old
===is the stuff: about 30 yrs.. she then said: well how many times do you
===think you gonna have to do this again???.... kinda made me feel bad
===... is anyone out there feels like this???? sometimes does too much to fix junk that it only seems right to
===them????

There is nothing much more that I like doing than making items thatw
ere deemed unserviceable serviceable or turing junk into useable
items. Its called being frugal.


I have just finished a repair job on my battery Philishave.
Batteries died after about 12 years continuous use, so I replaced it
with a mains version ($69) which is dying after about a year, so I
looked at a new battery job. $350+ no bloody way I am going to
pay that, the original only cost about $25 or about $120 in
depreciated dollars. I went to a battery shop, bought 2 x 2/3 sub-C
replacements for $20.15, soldered them in, charged them and now the
shaver is running as good as new, just in time for my trip to Japan.
is that batteries for a shave( for your face)??? i got an old norellco
shave and the batteries are bad.. its about 30 yrs. old but i always
liked it..... the batteries you suggested are C size batteries but
shorter???? if so that is probably what i need....

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:02:04 GMT, jim wrote:

wrote:



I have just finished a repair job on my battery Philishave.
Batteries died after about 12 years continuous use, so I replaced it
with a mains version ($69) which is dying after about a year, so I
looked at a new battery job. $350+ no bloody way I am going to
pay that, the original only cost about $25 or about $120 in
depreciated dollars. I went to a battery shop, bought 2 x 2/3 sub-C
replacements for $20.15, soldered them in, charged them and now the
shaver is running as good as new, just in time for my trip to Japan.

is that batteries for a shave( for your face)???
Yes
i got an old norellco
shave and the batteries are bad.. its about 30 yrs. old but i always
liked it..... the batteries you suggested are C size batteries but
shorter???? if so that is probably what i need....

Yes, Philips is Norelco in N America. Mine is model # HP1337,
dual voltage - 110/240
Fortunately I have not disposed of old cells.
Dimensions are 25mm/1" long x 22mm/7/8" with thin solder tags, I
had to trim the replacements to fit in PCB slots.

Batteries are 2/3 length sub-C size, anything longer will not fit
in. C and sub-C are different sizes. I think C are larger
diameter. They are installed with both negative ends to the bottom of
the case as there is a diagonal PCB track from + on one to - on the
other.. You may have to bend the spring wipers on the switch as
mine were flattened and not making proper contact, or PCB did not fit
in exactly as originally installed.

I have learnt so much from this newsgroup and it is so nice to be
able to put something back and help you

I can take a photo of the shaver and send it to you. Change "oz"
to "au" in email address for direct reply

Alan

jim wrote:

snip

thanks for all the replies about being cheap/fixing stuff.. i posted
this on the honda automobile newsgroup by mistake and just about every
answer i got was why waste your time, some said old people would do this
but not them??? i guess they are younger??? me in my late 50's.. but
would like to be in my 20's again so i can refer to someone as old
people.....

friend who is a doctor said his dad was a mechanic and had his own
shop/business. he said that he can thank his dad for being a doctor
today as when he was a kid he worked in the shop and he was always given
the crap jobs like cleaning something or taking it apart but he never
would get to assemble something and get it working again..he did not
ever get the satisfaction of fixing anything....and hated every minute
that he was in that shop...

I'm more of a lurker than anything on this group, but I just thought I'd
throw my $0.02 in here. I just turned 28 last week and I'm definitely in
the "fix it if possible" group, as well as the "fix it to learn how it
works" group too. Case in point would be when I broke the tool rest on
an old wood lathe of mine, and proceeded to weld up a new one from
scratch (self-taught O/A. I wouldn't hire me for any critical/structural
welding, but this tool rest is holding up extremely nicely). Another
case was when I bought a basket-case of a car (1978 Trans-Am 400ci 4sp
BTW) in order to learn how everything worked, and to see if I could do
it. Let me tell you that it's not the best thing on the road, but it is
now at least 80% driveable (need to fix the brakes and suspension to get
it to at least 95%, unless some other bugs get shaken out) and I did it
all myself through desire and determination. You're right, there was a
lot of satisfaction and pride the day that I turned the key and it
started up with no hiccups, and there still is when something falls into
place (now if this damnable winter will end, then maybe I can do
something other than let it sit).

Suffice it to say that I'm the opposite of your doctor friend - I sit in
front of a computer all day for work and lately I've really come to
*hate* it. I think that if I could get into a decent job where I get to
work with my hands and get dirty I would jump at it in an instant (wood,
metal, auto, machine - doesn't matter - just call me Jack).

--
- Mike S. (definitely not part of the "let someone else do it"
mentality)
Natharias at lycos dot com

Toolbert wrote:

One of these days I'll study the exotic plastics at McMaster and will try
making a new bearing.

When the seal on my neighbour's went, we made a new one out of sheet
silicone rubber and a fiber washer. This was a couple years ago and
it's still going strong.

Ted

wrote:

Now, a $3 switch, I would have just replaced that...

Maybe but I have a double ended dog lead clip. The dog managed
to snag this on a concrete block and broke off the little finger
button for opening the clip leaving a jagged, sharp stub in the slot.
This is on the slider sitting in a 1/8" wide groove in the body.
There is no non-destructive way to take this apart for repair. Why
repair a $2.50 item? Because it would take me 20 minutes each way to
drive to town plus some time in the store. Besides I wanted to see if
I could do it. :-) Set TIG to low current. Grab a 1/32" 347 SS rod
(bought surplus). Build up a little button on the broken stub. Fixed
in less than five minutes.

Ted

Doug Arthurs wrote:

nice as his old one. Couple weeks later he got tired of having it take
up space in the garage and asked me to just come and take it away. I did
and after rebuilding all the worn parts on the cutting deck and filling
up the hydro-static drive with oil and ended up with a great running
machine.

About ten years ago I had to repair a riding mower (parts were no longer
available) or buy a new one for a couple grand. I felt I would rather
buy a
lathe than a mower and fix the mower. I'd been wanting my own lathe for
a
looooooong time. I mentioned this to my neighbour who pulled out an
experimental/homebuilt airplane mag and showed me a Smithy add. This
would
give me a lathe AND a mill for about what I expected to pay for a
lathe. My
wife pointed out that if we got the Smithy, I could go to a proffesional
machine shop for the odd job that was too big/fine/accurate/whatever for
my
own machine. If this happened more than a couple of times, I could
always
sell the Smithy and get something bigger/better. I bought the Smithy in
'91 or
'92 (forget which) - haven't been to the pro shop yet.

Ted

wrote:

I have just finished a repair job on my battery Philishave.
Batteries died after about 12 years continuous use, so I replaced it
with a mains version ($69) which is dying after about a year, so I
looked at a new battery job. $350+ no bloody way I am going to
pay that, the original only cost about $25 or about $120 in
depreciated dollars. I went to a battery shop, bought 2 x 2/3 sub-C
replacements for $20.15, soldered them in, charged them and now the
shaver is running as good as new, just in time for my trip to Japan.

Batteries are 2/3 length sub-C size, anything longer will not fit
in. C and sub-C are different sizes. I think C are larger
diameter. They are installed with both negative ends to the bottom of
the case as there is a diagonal PCB track from + on one to - on the

Digi-key (http://www.digikey.com) carry quite an assortment of Panasonic
NiMH and NiCd cells with solder tabs. I would go for NiMH in that app
since they have much higher capacity.

Ted

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:59:17 -0500, Nick Hull
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article ,
"Bob May" wrote:

When I buy, the problem usually shows up again shortly. When I fix it, it
stays fixed because I also fix the basic problem rather than just getting
another fresh one.
You're talking to the few left that actually would consider repairing than
replacing in this group.

I use a 3-step process for fixing things: I fix what broke, I make it
stronger or better, and I fix the cause.

EXCELLENT idea. I usually try for the same.
(Of course, it helps to be so frugal that they can
hear me squeak all the way over on the east coast.)


--
Impeach 'em ALL!
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

wrote:


I have just finished a repair job on my battery Philishave.
Batteries died after about 12 years continuous use, so I replaced it
with a mains version ($69) which is dying after about a year, so I
looked at a new battery job. $350+ no bloody way I am going to
pay that, the original only cost about $25 or about $120 in
depreciated dollars. I went to a battery shop, bought 2 x 2/3 sub-C
replacements for $20.15, soldered them in, charged them and now the
shaver is running as good as new, just in time for my trip to Japan.



Those are the same size nicads I just replaced in our home's two Dust
Busters. One of them as it turns out was the second set in what must be
near it's 15th year of faithful service. I'd forgotten I'd done that one
before, but when I opened it up I saw the unmistakable signs of my
previous handiwork inside.

******************************************

Not suprisingly the responses on this thread are overwhelmingly in favor
of DIY repair for all the reasons which have been mentioned, and I'm
proud to be in that category.

I'll replace things which wear out or break if there's a clear benefit
in the newer version, but if all that's available is the same (or worse)
old ****e, I'll give a go at repairing what I've got, thank you.

I've reached the age where I'm not embarrassed by doing what I like to
do. I'll gleefully suggest autofornication to any ten thumbed snob who
accuses me of "wasting time on that."

IIRC it was this group's Don Foreman who informed me that Emanuel Kant
wrote that man is not complete unless he spends some time just "farting
around" with stuff. Thanks Don.

Jeff

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

Doug Arthurs wrote:

Couple weeks later he got tired of having it take
up space in the garage and asked me to just come and take it away. I did
and after rebuilding all the worn parts on the cutting deck and filling
up the hydro-static drive with oil and ended up with a great running
machine.



Deja vu all over again...I was given my boss's Snapper riding mover
almost 40 years ago after he overtorqued the spark plug and stripped the
threads in the engine head.

A new head was cheaper than the cost of a helicoil job (about $8 IIRC),
so I just replaced it.

I'm still using that Snapper every summer, though I did have to treat it
to a new engine about ten years ago when the original one lost
compression and wasn't really worth the effort to rebore and replace
parts on.

See it at:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/jeff/treegro.jpg


My Airens snow thrower is about the same age. I bought it used for $50
from a guy who didn't know how to stick a new float in the carb. It's a
real "widowmaker", no deadman safeties to speak of, and the front ends
of the auger are exposed at the sides.

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

wrote:

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:02:04 GMT, jim wrote:

wrote:


I have just finished a repair job on my battery Philishave.
Batteries died after about 12 years continuous use, so I replaced it
with a mains version ($69) which is dying after about a year, so I
looked at a new battery job. $350+ no bloody way I am going to
pay that, the original only cost about $25 or about $120 in
depreciated dollars. I went to a battery shop, bought 2 x 2/3 sub-C
replacements for $20.15, soldered them in, charged them and now the
shaver is running as good as new, just in time for my trip to Japan.

is that batteries for a shave( for your face)???
Yes
i got an old norellco
shave and the batteries are bad.. its about 30 yrs. old but i always
liked it..... the batteries you suggested are C size batteries but
shorter???? if so that is probably what i need....

Yes, Philips is Norelco in N America. Mine is model # HP1337,
dual voltage - 110/240
Fortunately I have not disposed of old cells.
Dimensions are 25mm/1" long x 22mm/7/8" with thin solder tags, I
had to trim the replacements to fit in PCB slots.

Batteries are 2/3 length sub-C size, anything longer will not fit
in. C and sub-C are different sizes. I think C are larger
diameter. They are installed with both negative ends to the bottom of
the case as there is a diagonal PCB track from + on one to - on the
other.. You may have to bend the spring wipers on the switch as
mine were flattened and not making proper contact, or PCB did not fit
in exactly as originally installed.

I have learnt so much from this newsgroup and it is so nice to be
able to put something back and help you

I can take a photo of the shaver and send it to you. Change "oz"
to "au" in email address for direct reply

Alan

thanks for the info, no thats alright dont need a picture.. just never
heard of the sub C cell batteries before.... got them from an appliance
parts store??? or where????