OT Makarov 9x18 bullet stuck in a Beretta
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:21:16 GMT, Ignoramus1729 wrote:
I ****ed up. Tried to use 9x18 Makarov rounds in a Beretta 92FS. Never actually fired the gun with that bullet, since it got stuck. Both the 9x18 and 9x19 headspace on the neck, so your case is probably 1mm too far forward. It jammed solid. The slide is perfectly stuck. Does not go forward or backward. Releasing the slide release or magazine release does nothing. I can't reconcile that. I'd guess the end of the case is at the front of the chamber, and that the extractor is behind the rim of the case. But I can't mentally picture the geometry that would make the slide not open. Is it fully shut, as in barrel locked up? Just WTF should I do now... Any ideas... I'm pretty confident in the shop, and around guns in general, but to me this sounds like a "gunsmith" call. Dave |
Ignoramus1729 wrote:
I do not post to rec.guns due to their email policy and was hoping that someone here might know. I ****ed up. Tried to use 9x18 Makarov rounds in a Beretta 92FS. Never actually fired the gun with that bullet, since it got stuck. It jammed solid. The slide is perfectly stuck. Does not go forward or backward. Releasing the slide release or magazine release does nothing. Just WTF should I do now... Any ideas... If I understand, the round is live? If so, see a gunsmith and make sure you understand the transport rules in your area about transporting a loaded firearm. Wes "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -- PJ O'Rourke |
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On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:00:02 GMT, Ignoramus1729 wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 20:52:19 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: Iggy, what's the composition of the bullet in question? FMJ OK, so copper jacket, lead core. Do you have another round as a sample? Could you measure from the tip of the bullet to the muzzle, (depth mic) to see exactly what the positioning is? You'd need to know how far from the muzzle the front of the chamber is, and I don't have a Beretta to measure up for you (oddly enough...) but if you could determine the position of the case vs. the chamber, that would tell us a lot about the geometry. Another thought, and I'm not sure if it's a good one, would be to make a sleeve to go into the barrel, out of nylon or similar. Protect the rifling, go in with a gun drill, and take a hole (.125 or so?) through the bullet. Drain powder, and then you're just dealing with a primer, not really a big concern then. This may be dramatically unsafe of an act to carry out and really bad advice, but it _would_ eliminate the concerns of it going off once you finished the operation. Hand drilling, slowly, well out of the way... I dunno. Not my idea of a good time, but less of a bad time than hammering on a gun with a live round in the pipe. Would I be out of place in asking how the hell this happened in the first place? Dave |
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:44:59 GMT, Ignoramus1729 wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 21:11:01 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: Another thought, and I'm not sure if it's a good one, would be to make a sleeve to go into the barrel, out of nylon or similar. Protect the rifling, go in with a gun drill, and take a hole (.125 or so?) through the bullet. hm, hot gun drill drilling into gun powder... Wouldn't be hot though, would it? let me do this when I pay you, but before you ship the die grinder to me. (insider joke) Heh. This has all signs of becoming a recurring joke... I will try to see if there is anything that I can do with a screwdriver from the magazine side. The magazine is removed at this point. If you can see the back or bottom of the rim, maybe you can get an idea of if it's in there cocked or something. Would I be out of place in asking how the hell this happened in the first place? There is this gun range with a "shooting pit" where people go and shoot their repeating rifles (mostly). It is a big pit full of mud, trash, and, this month, with some pumpkins. Ah, yes. Pumpkins. I had a friend who recently separated from his wife. So, we had fun shooting at pumpkins with my Kalashnikov. Good therapy that. At that point, we decided to try the Beretta. I put some bullets into the magazine, released the slide and it got stuck. Then we shot remaining 7.62x39 ammo and went home. Was this the first shot of the day on that gun? When was the last time it was fired, and/or cleaned? I'm wondering if this isn't just "crud in chamber" more than "wrong type of round". Fed from the magazine, I assume? |
In article , Ignoramus1729 says...
Just WTF should I do now... Any ideas... Call a reputable gunsmith in your local area. Explain the exact problem to him, and exactly how it occurred. Listen to what he suggests, and then do exactly that. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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In article , xray wrote: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:57:53 GMT, Ignoramus1729 wrote: I really am not looking to start a gun law discussion here. Like you have any way to prevent that should it decide to erupt. Good wishes on the solution to the real problem, though. I'm guessing you are probably with me on this, but the idea of drilling into the front of the round to drain the powder is not something that I would do. I think gently tapping on the nose of the round with a dowel would be safer than drilling. It sounds like a few gentle taps should do it. The round got jammed in there by the forse of the slide closing, so it shouldn't take more that that to dislodge it. I wouldn't use a hammer to hit the dowel, but a moderately long stick. That way if anything weird happens, there won't be anything metal in the way. Just make sure the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction at all times. Doug White |
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:01:42 GMT, xray wrote:
I thought he said the slide is jammed too. Well, if the case won't come back because the bullet is several thousanths too big, the slide would seem like it's jammed, until you either pull the extractor through the rim, or the bullet out of the barrel. |
"Ignoramus1729" wrote in message .. . The slug is jammed in the spout, tap it out with a wood or plastic rod while trying to move the slide. Don't look down the tube while you are doing this although the odds of ignition aren't great. When it's your time...it's your time, but don't dare God. |
Hi Iggy,
I think I've heard of this happening before and the solution was to support the rear of the gun and, using softeners, tap downward on the front of the slide. The theory was this was less stress on the slide and related parts than is caused by firing a round. I seem to remember it worked just fine. Now it's been a while since I heard about this so take it with MANY grains of salt, especially in the details. Good luck. dennis in nca |
Ignoramus1729 wrote:
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:19:55 GMT, Tom Gardner wrote: "Ignoramus1729" wrote in message ... The slug is jammed in the spout, tap it out with a wood or plastic rod while trying to move the slide. Don't look down the tube while you are doing this although the odds of ignition aren't great. When it's your time...it's your time, but don't dare God. makes perfect sense. I will indeed try that, while looking the other way. i I would put the barrel over the rod, pointed down into thick wood or dirt. Wear a face sheild in case any parts or parts of parts eject upwards. |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:40:37 GMT, Ignoramus1729
wrote: Thanks, Rigger, Larry, Jim, and everyone else. I have fixed the Beretta. I carefully pried a gap between the barrel Then it had not gone into battery. Good. Mic the cartridge at the neck and compare it to a known good round. Give us the results. and the slide, with two screwdrivers. It opened, I removed the round, etc. I was careful enough to point it away from me etc. A lesson for me, take tools to the gun range. You dont? A range box is a necessity. Something to hold ammo, shooting glasses and ear muffs, cleaning rod etc etc. A 50 cal can is ok...though a 20 mm can is much bigger. There are a number of factory made range boxes available. The MTM one is quite good. http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products...ng/acases.html Mine (shooters accessory case) is nearly 20 yrs old, and though Ive replaced the latches..it still gives me good service. It also allows you to stack the http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/shooting/gunm.html which I STRONGLY recommend any rifle shooter owning. Organizes all your swabs, brushes, rods, solvents and so forth in a nice neat easily stored package that is handy as hell. If you enjoy wood working..something like this is fun to make http://www.cal-graf.com/rangeb.html IRRC...Kmart and Walmart both sell a decent sized plastic range box with compartments to hold bits and pieces. A tackle box may suit you as well. So might a gym bag of good construction and some plastic boxes from the 99c store. I also use what is commonly known as a Salesmans Catalog Case...similar to this http://www.greenlightoffice.com/prod...?block=2017070 Particularly when shotgunning. I find them at the GoodWill and Salvation arrmy stores fairly regularly for $5 or so. I normally go to the range with the MTM case, and a catalog case. Tools and ammo etc go in the MTM case, spotting scopes, 100 round ammo boxes, sandbags etc go in the catalog case. If you find one of the catalog cases with wheels on it..even better as you can tote both by simply putting the MTM case on top, and pulling it out to the line or benchs. I even have a hard sided catalog case with a complete reloading setup that clamps to my shooting bench for load developement at the range. Gunner i On 3 Oct 2005 17:25:55 -0700, rigger wrote: Hi Iggy, I think I've heard of this happening before and the solution was to support the rear of the gun and, using softeners, tap downward on the front of the slide. The theory was this was less stress on the slide and related parts than is caused by firing a round. I seem to remember it worked just fine. Now it's been a while since I heard about this so take it with MANY grains of salt, especially in the details. Good luck. dennis in nca Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry |
On 3 Oct 2005 14:52:43 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:21:16 GMT, Ignoramus1729 wrote: I ****ed up. Tried to use 9x18 Makarov rounds in a Beretta 92FS. Never actually fired the gun with that bullet, since it got stuck. Both the 9x18 and 9x19 headspace on the neck, so your case is probably 1mm too far forward. It jammed solid. The slide is perfectly stuck. Does not go forward or backward. Releasing the slide release or magazine release does nothing. It's a diameter issue Dave. 9 Para are .356 and 9 Mak is .364 on bullet diameter. Similar case differences too, although you're correct that the Mak is 1mm shorter. Careful tapping of a dowel rod might open it up. If you can't get it, drive it over to your favorite gunsmith. |
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:28:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus1729 quickly quoth: yep, from the mag... no, the gun was clean. Was it well oiled? The only gun that I am not cleaning well is my AK-47. What does Federal Room and Board cost you for that thing, Ig? I know I went through 90 rounds in one in about 30 seconds at the MG Shoot a couple years ago, so I'm not counting ammo. Yes, I know that was a long time to go through that few rounds, but I was seeing how it felt with single shots in SA mode, small bursts in FA, and then let it loose, taking out the windshield in the demo van downrange. What a hoot! Once I got used to the rise from the FA fire (it leveled out after about 5 rounds), it became much more tame to aim. -- "Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be" -Abraham Lincoln ----------------------------------------------------------- www.diversify.com - Happy Website Development |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:41:21 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus1729 quickly quoth: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:45:51 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: He did, but that's probably the extractor linked to it and hanging up on the stuck brass. Doug's idea is what I'd try, with the chamber opening away from me. Once the slug has slid into the brass, holding the rifle upside down might (with the dowel or brass welding rod against the slug for clearance) release the powder so it would be a bit safer to more firmly tap the dowel. that was actually a handgun with a straight case cartridge. I do not like handguns much anymore and have not shot this one in quite a while. 9x18, Doh! I guess it was a pistol cartridge. I had seen reference to the other you were shooting, 7.62x39, and got stuck there. So, how much damage, if any, did the screwdrivers do? cringe -- "Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be" -Abraham Lincoln ----------------------------------------------------------- www.diversify.com - Happy Website Development |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:29:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:28:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus1729 quickly quoth: yep, from the mag... no, the gun was clean. Was it well oiled? The only gun that I am not cleaning well is my AK-47. What does Federal Room and Board cost you for that thing, Ig? I know I went through 90 rounds in one in about 30 seconds at the MG Shoot a couple years ago, so I'm not counting ammo. Yes, I know that was a long time to go through that few rounds, but I was seeing how it felt with single shots in SA mode, small bursts in FA, and then let it loose, taking out the windshield in the demo van downrange. What a hoot! Once I got used to the rise from the FA fire (it leveled out after about 5 rounds), it became much more tame to aim. Few AK-47s sold in the US are full auto. The legal ones are self loading (semi auto) and are quite legal to own in most states (California excepted) Iggy should be aware that if he is shooting mil-surp or imported ammo..he may be damageing his barrel and gas system by not rigourously cleaning it as many of those are corrosive primed. Gunner Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:49:03 GMT, Ignoramus29341
wrote: IRRC...Kmart and Walmart both sell a decent sized plastic range box with compartments to hold bits and pieces. A tackle box may suit you as well. So might a gym bag of good construction and some plastic boxes from the 99c store. Thanks. I need to buy some rifle carrying cases also. Kmart regularly runs specials on a very inexpensive blow moulded plastic gun case. Its actually a very good deal and less than $10 Gunner Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:16:18 GMT, Ignoramus29341
wrote: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:13:42 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:29:21 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:28:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus1729 quickly quoth: yep, from the mag... no, the gun was clean. Was it well oiled? The only gun that I am not cleaning well is my AK-47. What does Federal Room and Board cost you for that thing, Ig? I know I went through 90 rounds in one in about 30 seconds at the MG Shoot a couple years ago, so I'm not counting ammo. Yes, I know that was a long time to go through that few rounds, but I was seeing how it felt with single shots in SA mode, small bursts in FA, and then let it loose, taking out the windshield in the demo van downrange. What a hoot! Once I got used to the rise from the FA fire (it leveled out after about 5 rounds), it became much more tame to aim. Few AK-47s sold in the US are full auto. The legal ones are self loading (semi auto) and are quite legal to own in most states (California excepted) Iggy should be aware that if he is shooting mil-surp or imported ammo..he may be damageing his barrel and gas system by not rigourously cleaning it as many of those are corrosive primed. I am positive that my ammo is not corrosive primed. I tried it before. i Pull a bullet and dump the powder. Spray a piece of clean steel with brake cleaner. Holding the muzzle close to the steel, fire the primer. Place the steel outdoors for a couple days and see where the rust develops. Thats a decent enough test. Gunner Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry |
Ignoramus1729 wrote:
If I understand, the round is live? If so, see a gunsmith and make sure you understand the transport rules in your area about transporting a loaded firearm. Well, the gun is on SAFE. It is not capable of firing even if I turned safery to FIRE. Even if I turned safety to FIRE, the firing pin would not protrude from the back. Also, the hammer could not hit it anyway due to slide placement (the bottom of the slide would prevent the hammer from striking the pin). I am not terribly worried that the gun is about to go off, and not too worried about transporting it, but I will try to make basic precautions (such as driving slowly so as not to get stopped by cops). Even if I was stopped by cops, I would be unlikely to be prosecuted since the gun is not capable of firing. I really am not looking to start a gun law discussion here. I wasn't trying to start one, just wanted you to be aware incase you lived in a very gun unfriendly State. Wes S NRA Life MCRGO -- Reply to: Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie Lycos address is a spam trap. |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:50:34 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus29341 quickly quoth: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:29:21 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:28:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus1729 quickly quoth: yep, from the mag... no, the gun was clean. Was it well oiled? I would suppose, I oiled it way back then. ....and it all ran off. The only gun that I am not cleaning well is my AK-47. What does Federal Room and Board cost you for that thing, Ig? I know I went through 90 rounds in one in about 30 seconds at the MG Shoot a couple years ago, so I'm not counting ammo. Yes, I know that was a long time to go through that few rounds, but I was seeing how it felt with single shots in SA mode, small bursts in FA, and then let it loose, taking out the windshield in the demo van downrange. What a hoot! Once I got used to the rise from the FA fire (it leveled out after about 5 rounds), it became much more tame to aim. Mine is semiautomatic... 100% legal... Cool. Those are nice little weapons, though a bit on the heavy side. Maybe they're lighter without the drum magazine on 'em. -------------------------------------------------------- Murphy was an Optimist ---------------------------- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development |
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:38:49 GMT, Ignoramus29341 wrote:
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:54:00 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: Cool. Those are nice little weapons, though a bit on the heavy side. Maybe they're lighter without the drum magazine on 'em. Trust me, they are too heavy with a drum magazine... About that...how's a Thompson 1927a1 with a drum magazine? I'd expect "heavy", but is it uncomfortably so? That's my current "toy fund" goal. |
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