Hi all,

I tried out some of your recommendations today and welded a couple of
fillets. I took two pieces of 50 mm x 50 mm x 3 mm mild steel angle and
clamped them back to back with about a 25 mm overlap, so that I could
weld a fillet down each side. I know the steel looks rather rusty in the
pictures but I cleaned off as much as I could using a wire cup brush.
The rust really is very superficial.

First I tried the angles RoyJ suggested, together with Brian's idea of
hanging the cable over my shoulder, and made sure I watched the pool
like Grant said. For all the welds I used 3.25 mm 6013 rods, 145 amp
current setting and no weave. My welder is on the end of a long
electricity supply line so I reckon I get more like 120-125 amps.
Anyway, 145 amps is the next setting up from what I would normally use
for a butt weld in 3 mm plate. The first weld had a minor slag inclusion
at the beginning but it's way better than the fillets I was doing
before. Here's a pictu

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet1.jpg

Next I tried using a 6013 rod as a drag rod. I've never tried this
before and only heard of the technique recently. No one ever told me
about it when I started welding, but then I didn't go to any classes - I
just chatted to a few people. Apart from a somewhat messy start I
thought it looked pretty good:

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet2.jpg

Then I turned the angle sections over and reverted to the first
technique. I tried to join three sections of weld together neatly. Again
there's a little slag inclusion at the start, and the restarts could be
a bit neater, but I was pretty pleased with it:

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet3.jpg
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet4.jpg

The second of those pictures shows distortion in the metal, which is
probably the worst problem. Here's another view from the end:

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet5.jpg

The next thing I'm planning to build is a frame to hold the motor and
transformer of a phase convertor. Probably the sections I will use to
build this will have 5 mm walls, so distortion should be less of a
problem. The weld produced by dragging the rod appears to distort the
metal less, but it's smaller and more sharply curved, which might make
it weaker. Which technique would people recommend for building a phase
convertor frame? Any general suggestions for reducing distortion?

My technique looks much improved. I think I was using the wrong angles
and not watching the arc closely enough. Now I reckon I just need to
practice a bit to get rid of those little slag inclusions at the start
of a weld, neaten up my restarts and banish the small patches of
undercut and spatter. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for the help!

Chris

Nothing wrong with those welds that practice won't cure. 145 amps on
1/8" (3.25mm) rod sounds high, I'd be talking about 110-120 amps. Did
the rod get red hot at the end? If so, too hot.

The standard practice block is nothing more than a 6mm thick chunk of
strap about 50mm x 100mm (or whatever is handy) Run a clean bead down
one edge, chip the slag, inspect, run a second bead next to the first,
chip, inspect, repeat until the whole surface is covered. Do a second,
third, forth, etc layer. When you are done, use a per hacksaw to cut it
across the beads, should have NO slag inclusions. You will not do well
on the first one, it gets better with practice.

When you get that figured out, set the block on it's side, lay beads
horizontally on the vertical surface, etc etc.

Full length welds like you did will warp BADLY. Only cure is to weld
short sections on opposite sides (top/bottom, left/right). You can keep
it from getting as bad by just doing skip welds eg 1" (25mm) welds every
4" (100mm)

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi all,

I tried out some of your recommendations today and welded a couple of
fillets. I took two pieces of 50 mm x 50 mm x 3 mm mild steel angle and
clamped them back to back with about a 25 mm overlap, so that I could
weld a fillet down each side. I know the steel looks rather rusty in the
pictures but I cleaned off as much as I could using a wire cup brush.
The rust really is very superficial.

First I tried the angles RoyJ suggested, together with Brian's idea of
hanging the cable over my shoulder, and made sure I watched the pool
like Grant said. For all the welds I used 3.25 mm 6013 rods, 145 amp
current setting and no weave. My welder is on the end of a long
electricity supply line so I reckon I get more like 120-125 amps.
Anyway, 145 amps is the next setting up from what I would normally use
for a butt weld in 3 mm plate. The first weld had a minor slag inclusion
at the beginning but it's way better than the fillets I was doing
before. Here's a pictu

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet1.jpg

Next I tried using a 6013 rod as a drag rod. I've never tried this
before and only heard of the technique recently. No one ever told me
about it when I started welding, but then I didn't go to any classes - I
just chatted to a few people. Apart from a somewhat messy start I
thought it looked pretty good:

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet2.jpg

Then I turned the angle sections over and reverted to the first
technique. I tried to join three sections of weld together neatly. Again
there's a little slag inclusion at the start, and the restarts could be
a bit neater, but I was pretty pleased with it:

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet3.jpg
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet4.jpg

The second of those pictures shows distortion in the metal, which is
probably the worst problem. Here's another view from the end:

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/fillet5.jpg

The next thing I'm planning to build is a frame to hold the motor and
transformer of a phase convertor. Probably the sections I will use to
build this will have 5 mm walls, so distortion should be less of a
problem. The weld produced by dragging the rod appears to distort the
metal less, but it's smaller and more sharply curved, which might make
it weaker. Which technique would people recommend for building a phase
convertor frame? Any general suggestions for reducing distortion?

My technique looks much improved. I think I was using the wrong angles
and not watching the arc closely enough. Now I reckon I just need to
practice a bit to get rid of those little slag inclusions at the start
of a weld, neaten up my restarts and banish the small patches of
undercut and spatter. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for the help!

Chris

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:28:25 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

(snip)

The next thing I'm planning to build is a frame to hold the motor and
transformer of a phase convertor. Probably the sections I will use to
build this will have 5 mm walls, so distortion should be less of a
problem. The weld produced by dragging the rod appears to distort the
metal less, but it's smaller and more sharply curved, which might make
it weaker. Which technique would people recommend for building a phase
convertor frame? Any general suggestions for reducing distortion?

My technique looks much improved. I think I was using the wrong angles
and not watching the arc closely enough. Now I reckon I just need to
practice a bit to get rid of those little slag inclusions at the start
of a weld, neaten up my restarts and banish the small patches of
undercut and spatter. Any suggestions?

Distortion: tack in several places, then stitch together with
alternating short beads.

General: minor imperfections noted, but your welds look entirely
servicable to me. I'd say start building stuff you want to build.
A little slag inclusion here and there is not gonna make a rack fall
apart.

As Don said, your welds are certainly serviceable. If you are in doubt weld
the angles together for a length of one inch and see how much hammering and
twisting you will have to do to get complete separation.
People mentioned about tacking your assembly first before welding and
avoiding long continuous welds. I suggest that you also avoid over welding.
In many cases you do not need to weld everything up with continuous seams.
A one or two inch weld on such thin material will take a considerable of
load,
Randy

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I tried out some of your recommendations today and welded a couple of
fillets. I took two pieces of 50 mm x 50 mm x 3 mm mild steel angle and
clamped them back to back with about a 25 mm overlap, so that I could
weld a fillet down each side. I know the steel looks rather rusty in the
pictures but I cleaned off as much as I could using a wire cup brush.
The rust really is very superficial.

snip

My technique looks much improved. I think I was using the wrong angles
and not watching the arc closely enough. Now I reckon I just need to
practice a bit to get rid of those little slag inclusions at the start
of a weld, neaten up my restarts and banish the small patches of
undercut and spatter. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for the help!

Chris

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:33:41 GMT, "R. Zimmerman"
wrote:

As Don said, your welds are certainly serviceable. If you are in doubt weld
the angles together for a length of one inch and see how much hammering and
twisting you will have to do to get complete separation.
People mentioned about tacking your assembly first before welding and
avoiding long continuous welds. I suggest that you also avoid over welding.
In many cases you do not need to weld everything up with continuous seams.
A one or two inch weld on such thin material will take a considerable of
load,
Randy

The biggest single mistake the beginning welder (and I Strongly
include myself in that catagory) are what are known as Gorilla Welds.

I can now look back at my early work and cringe in noting that Ive
used what looks like a half box of rod to put something together that
needed a couple 1" welds.

Ive taken to actually looking at how our everyday world is welded
together, exposed joints, pipe fittings etc etc to see how the pros
acomplished things. Fascinating to see exactly how few weldments are
used in building big Stuff

Gunner


"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I tried out some of your recommendations today and welded a couple of
fillets. I took two pieces of 50 mm x 50 mm x 3 mm mild steel angle and
clamped them back to back with about a 25 mm overlap, so that I could
weld a fillet down each side. I know the steel looks rather rusty in the
pictures but I cleaned off as much as I could using a wire cup brush.
The rust really is very superficial.

snip

My technique looks much improved. I think I was using the wrong angles
and not watching the arc closely enough. Now I reckon I just need to
practice a bit to get rid of those little slag inclusions at the start
of a weld, neaten up my restarts and banish the small patches of
undercut and spatter. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for the help!

Chris

Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:33:41 GMT, "R. Zimmerman"
wrote:


As Don said, your welds are certainly serviceable. If you are in doubt weld
the angles together for a length of one inch and see how much hammering and
twisting you will have to do to get complete separation.
People mentioned about tacking your assembly first before welding and
avoiding long continuous welds. I suggest that you also avoid over welding.
In many cases you do not need to weld everything up with continuous seams.
A one or two inch weld on such thin material will take a considerable of
load,
Randy


The biggest single mistake the beginning welder (and I Strongly
include myself in that catagory) are what are known as Gorilla Welds.

I can now look back at my early work and cringe in noting that Ive
used what looks like a half box of rod to put something together that
needed a couple 1" welds.

Ive taken to actually looking at how our everyday world is welded
together, exposed joints, pipe fittings etc etc to see how the pros
acomplished things. Fascinating to see exactly how few weldments are
used in building big Stuff

I learnt not to weld every possible seam a few years back when I was
building an enclosure to house the control system for my power hacksaw.
I tried welding a seam on the inside of the box and ended up with bad
distortion. I probably do still have a tendency towards "gorilla welds",
though, but I have a couple of objections to intermittent welds.

First is that I've noticed they tend to harbour corrosion. You weld
everything together before you paint your project, then the paint seals
the unwelded sections of the seams. But it doesn't take much flexing or
weathering to open up a gap which moisture can enter. Of course the
joint is unpainted inside and it rusts. You paint over it again and -
damn - the rust shows through again. I hate that!

Second is that I don't like the appearance of intermittent welds if
they're in a very noticeable place. I prefer the appearance of a
continuous, neat bead. When I build an enclosure for my phase convertor
I think I will weld continuous seams, partly to thoroughly seal the
electrical enclosure, and partly to look neat.

Point taken, though: you can overdo it!

Chris