I took a tool back to Sears today...
 

It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
I said, "Yes."
She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
anyone." She gave me a new one.
Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

"B.B." u wrote in message
...
It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
I said, "Yes."
She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
anyone." She gave me a new one.
Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

You nasty old *******! g

Harold

Sears surely won't stay in business long, with a policy like that.

Careful - you might get blacklisted.

B.B. wrote:

Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!

It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
I said, "Yes."
She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
anyone." She gave me a new one.
Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/
My son took back a fairly large screwdriver, which was bent.... Says
the girl..." We also sell pry bars, right over there " and then
grinned as she handed the new screwdriver to him...
Ken.

"B.B." u wrote in message
...
It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
I said, "Yes."
She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
anyone." She gave me a new one.
Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!



Cute and she knew about tools!!!!!! Which Sears was this?

Chris

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?
Bugs

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:31:51 -0700, the opaque "Harold and Susan
Vordos" clearly wrote:


"B.B." u wrote in message
...
It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
I said, "Yes."
She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
anyone." She gave me a new one.
Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

You nasty old *******! g

You're supposed to ask for -pics- when you say that, Harold. domg
So, BB, got PICS?

(DOMG = Dirty Old Man Grin)


================================================== ========
CAUTION: Do NOT look directly into laser with remaining eyeball!
================================================== ========
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design

Better be carefull, the next time you may windup with a gold toothed
hard tail with a head full of dreadlocks or corn rows at the checkout
counter...........
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:12:47 -0500, "B.B."
u wrote:

=== It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
===you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
===it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
=== Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
===counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
===looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
===asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
=== I said, "Yes."
=== She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
===whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
===anyone." She gave me a new one.
=== Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
===tomorrow!


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Bugs wrote:

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?
Bugs

From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.

Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote:

Bugs wrote:

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?
Bugs

From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.

Pete C.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm also reminded of the Craftsman TV
commercials showing the guy dropping a wrench in the lake while working
on an outboard, with the VO "The only time you'll have to buy another
Craftsman tool" or similar.

Pete C.

From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.


It's no matter to them. Most people don't take the time to exchange
their broken tools so they make more money on their "free replacelment
image" than the money they actually spend on replacing their tools.
Sears isn't the only ones who offer this, though. Home Depot and even
those crappy tools from Harbor Freight usually have the same warranty.

But not all Sears tools are replaceble. They do sell some non-Craftsman
brand tools that aren't covered and I don't think Craftsman electric
tools are covered either.

In article .com,
"Bugs" wrote:

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?

EThics? Isn't that spelled "S-I-T-U-A-T-I-O-N-A-L"?

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:26:48 GMT, Ignoramus18245
wrote:

There is a reason why Sears has a warranty to return tools even if
they are broken due to customer misuse. The reason is that people buy
more stuff from Sears this way. Sears benefits from its policy. Going
to Sears after breaking a tool is a hassle and people do not have any
reason to abuse this policy by aimlessly breaking tools.

i

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:19:41 GMT, Don Bruder wrote:
In article .com,
"Bugs" wrote:

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?

EThics? Isn't that spelled "S-I-T-U-A-T-I-O-N-A-L"?




Besides, what was un-ethical about telling the lady the truth...then
it was her decision..not the OP's.

I went with a bud returning a 3/4" breaker bar. The counter guy handed him
a new one but held on saying: "I just gotta know, how long was the pipe you
put on it?" (six foot)

"B.B." u wrote in message
...
It was a 1/2" universal swivel. The chrome type for hand tools, that
you're absolutely not supposed to use on an impact. Well...I kinda used
it on an impact and immediately learned why that's not kosher.
Anyhoo, I walked up to the counter, plopped the remnants down on the
counter, and said as eloquently as possible, "I busted it." the girl
looked at it, looked at me, looked at it again, looked back at me, and
asked "Did you use this on an impact?"
I said, "Yes."
She leaned over (which was cool because she was cute as hell) and
whispered at me, "You're not supposed to do that, but I won't tell
anyone." She gave me a new one.
Whoo hoo! I'm gonna go break a whole **** load of tools at work
tomorrow!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

User Example wrote:

From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.


It's no matter to them. Most people don't take the time to exchange
their broken tools so they make more money on their "free replacelment
image" than the money they actually spend on replacing their tools.
Sears isn't the only ones who offer this, though. Home Depot and even
those crappy tools from Harbor Freight usually have the same warranty.

But not all Sears tools are replaceble. They do sell some non-Craftsman
brand tools that aren't covered and I don't think Craftsman electric
tools are covered either.

Correct, it's only the Craftsman hand tools that have this warranty. The
Companion line is not covered, nor are the power tools.

I've taken advantage of the warranty on occasion. While I try not to
abuse my tools (too much), after some years the phillips screwdrivers do
get a bit chewed up and some of the flat blades get broken tips. It's
nice to just bring them in to Sears with me when I go there for other
stuff and have nice new ones when I leave.

Pete C.

Brian Lawson wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:26:48 GMT, Ignoramus18245
wrote:

There is a reason why Sears has a warranty to return tools even if
they are broken due to customer misuse. The reason is that people buy
more stuff from Sears this way. Sears benefits from its policy. Going
to Sears after breaking a tool is a hassle and people do not have any
reason to abuse this policy by aimlessly breaking tools.

i

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:19:41 GMT, Don Bruder wrote:
In article .com,
"Bugs" wrote:

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?

EThics? Isn't that spelled "S-I-T-U-A-T-I-O-N-A-L"?


Besides, what was un-ethical about telling the lady the truth...then
it was her decision..not the OP's.

Not even her decision, based on their published warranty info. They do
not make any exclusions for abuse of the tools. Certainly they can
suggest that you might consider purchasing the correct tool to use for
the task that broke the one you are exchanging.

Pete C.

Years ago in Syracuse, I bought a Craftsman Splitting Maul. After using it
for a few days, the wooden handle broke (overshot the log I was splitting).
I took it back. The guy tried to tell me that it wasn't included in the
free replacement warranty, which was just for "Craftsman Hand Tools" as was
shown on the poster over the hand tool section. I pointed out that it said
"Craftsman" on the broken handle, and that it certainly wasn't a power tool.
So he gave me a free replacement. A couple of weeks later, the same thing
happened. Same story, same outcome. Over the course of the next year or
so, I got three more new mauls (I guess I'm not real accurate with my
swing), with gradually escalating hassle. As I was handed the last one, I
was told, "No more. This is it." When I finally broke that one, I decided
that I was tired of the hassle, and that Sears didn't really owe me
anything, so I bought a replacement fiber-glass handle, which is still on
the maul. They still haven't put any limitation on axes and splitting
mauls, or for broken wooden handles.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Pete C." wrote in message
...
"Pete C." wrote:

Bugs wrote:

Do you know how to spell ETHICS?
Bugs

From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.

Pete C.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm also reminded of the Craftsman TV
commercials showing the guy dropping a wrench in the lake while working
on an outboard, with the VO "The only time you'll have to buy another
Craftsman tool" or similar.

Pete C.

Bob Chilcoat wrote:

Years ago in Syracuse, I bought a Craftsman Splitting Maul. After using it
for a few days, the wooden handle broke (overshot the log I was splitting).
I took it back. The guy tried to tell me that it wasn't included in the
free replacement warranty, which was just for "Craftsman Hand Tools" as was
shown on the poster over the hand tool section. I pointed out that it said
"Craftsman" on the broken handle, and that it certainly wasn't a power tool.
So he gave me a free replacement. A couple of weeks later, the same thing
happened. Same story, same outcome. Over the course of the next year or
so, I got three more new mauls (I guess I'm not real accurate with my
swing), with gradually escalating hassle. As I was handed the last one, I
was told, "No more. This is it." When I finally broke that one, I decided
that I was tired of the hassle, and that Sears didn't really owe me
anything, so I bought a replacement fiber-glass handle, which is still on
the maul. They still haven't put any limitation on axes and splitting
mauls, or for broken wooden handles.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


Try splitting a foot long piece of radiator hose and then cable tying it
around the handle just back of the head. Should help protect on the
overshoots. Some of the sledges and mauls come with a similar protector
these days.

Pete C.

"Bugs" wrote:
Do you know how to spell ETHICS?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anyone can SPELL it. Do you know what it means?

Went to Home Depot to buy a chainsaw chain yesterday. Two on the peg of
the size I needed. Both packages had been opened (as were many other
sizes) and one had obviously been used quite a bit. It was all covered
with oil and wood shavings. Obviously someone had the nerve to return a
worn blade and Home depot took it back and tried to resell it at full
price. Nice ethics, eh?

"daniel peterman" wrote in message
...
Went to Home Depot to buy a chainsaw chain yesterday. Two on the peg of
the size I needed. Both packages had been opened (as were many other
sizes) and one had obviously been used quite a bit. It was all covered
with oil and wood shavings. Obviously someone had the nerve to return a
worn blade and Home depot took it back and tried to resell it at full
price. Nice ethics, eh?


It is called the HD rental service. I have talked to a few people at HD and
it is an ever growing problem.

Take for example last early spring. Snow melting and heavy rains. I walked
down the plumbing isle and saw cart upon cart full of sump pumps (most
people have basements in the Northeast). Queried the HD employee who made
me aware of the buy it / us it/ and return it that people do. Now granted
some of these pumps where in the $30 range. Seriously if you need one once,
you are going to need it again.

Same thing happened during the Y2K crap. HD than had a policy that no
returns on generators, to stop the madness.

So the chainsaw you saw was most likely saw was used by some city dweller
who had one tree. Cut it and returned it.

Not for me, I do not get it. Is not part of buying tools, adding it to your
collection?

Chris

"User Example" wrote in message
m...
From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.


It's no matter to them. Most people don't take the time to exchange their
broken tools so they make more money on their "free replacelment image"
than the money they actually spend on replacing their tools. Sears isn't
the only ones who offer this, though. Home Depot and even those crappy
tools from Harbor Freight usually have the same warranty.

But not all Sears tools are replaceble. They do sell some non-Craftsman
brand tools that aren't covered and I don't think Craftsman electric tools
are covered either.


I call it advertising. How much does Sears pay for that 1/2" universal?
Maybe less than a dollar? Compare that to how much they spend on
advertising to get a customer in the store?

If you notice, most of the larger stores have the tool section buried.
Either in the basement, far corner etc. Just to make you walk through the
store to return. Sort of like casinos. Although I never understood how fire
codes allow casinos to get away with the puzzle maze they create. Oh ya,
they have money.

Chris

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:47:22 -0700, daniel peterman wrote:
Went to Home Depot to buy a chainsaw chain yesterday. Two on the peg of
the size I needed. Both packages had been opened (as were many other
sizes) and one had obviously been used quite a bit. It was all covered
with oil and wood shavings. Obviously someone had the nerve to return a
worn blade and Home depot took it back and tried to resell it at full
price. Nice ethics, eh?

I've stopped buying re-sealed packages. Over the years, I've
(temporarily) bought:
- a package of spark plugs which were, yes, spark plugs, but the take-outs
from whoever returned the box to the store
- One 5 gallon pail of drywall mud, which had been emptied, filled with
water, and returned to Menards
- Electronics items which didn't work, and had probably been returned by
someone else for the same reason
....and probably others. Now, if it's not the factory seal, even if it's
the last one I won't buy it. There's always going to be some unethical
idiot pulling crap like this, and there's always, apparently, a store
droid who doesn't even bother to look at what's being returned.

Never seen something as dramatic as a chainsaw chain, though. You have
to wonder what the clerk was thinking, taking it back, and restocking
it.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
| I went with a bud returning a 3/4" breaker bar. The counter guy handed
him
| a new one but held on saying: "I just gotta know, how long was the pipe
you
| put on it?" (six foot)

Breaker bars they must see a lot, but I can't see a human breaking a
3/4" breaker bar without torque assistance. With a lack of evidence proving
otherwise, they must make you walk out happy. I brought in a 1/2" breaker
bar that had been in my dad's tool box for years when he died and I acquired
some of the tools. It was so old the fellow was thinking it wasn't a
Craftsman. The swivel on the new one was a lot cheaper than the old one,
and doesn't hold quite right. Shame.
I learned a few years ago that the same folks who make Proto, Blackhawk,
Challenger, and a couple others that escape me, also make Sears' hand tools.
I was chatting with a Blackhawk sales guy and made some crack about Sears'
tools and he informed me that they made them also.

I did a weigh scale repair job at a place called National Hand Tool
north of Dallas many years ago. Jammed in and all around inside the scale
was gobs of sockets and smaller hand tools that had an assortment of common
vendor's names on them. I don't recall the names and was surprised, but
when I watched a very large and obviously expensive machine punching out
sockets from a roll of large wire, I realized why they did it. The tooling
to forge sockets and wrenches in a production rate are so ungodly expensive,
so one maker put various names on them for the vendor, which is normal in
other industries; I just wasn't expecting it there.

I have noticed that my Car Craft store sells Blackhawk tools for the
same price or less than Sears. Warranty just as good, of course, and made
by the same company. That's my source from now on, since the Car Craft is
closer than Sears and the folks there know tools a bit better than that
sassy clerk in snug black pants (I must admit the scenery isn't quite as
nice, though!)

Chris wrote:

"daniel peterman" wrote in message
...
Went to Home Depot to buy a chainsaw chain yesterday. Two on the peg of
the size I needed. Both packages had been opened (as were many other
sizes) and one had obviously been used quite a bit. It was all covered
with oil and wood shavings. Obviously someone had the nerve to return a
worn blade and Home depot took it back and tried to resell it at full
price. Nice ethics, eh?


It is called the HD rental service. I have talked to a few people at HD and
it is an ever growing problem.

Take for example last early spring. Snow melting and heavy rains. I walked
down the plumbing isle and saw cart upon cart full of sump pumps (most
people have basements in the Northeast). Queried the HD employee who made
me aware of the buy it / us it/ and return it that people do. Now granted
some of these pumps where in the $30 range. Seriously if you need one once,
you are going to need it again.

Same thing happened during the Y2K crap. HD than had a policy that no
returns on generators, to stop the madness.

So the chainsaw you saw was most likely saw was used by some city dweller
who had one tree. Cut it and returned it.

Not for me, I do not get it. Is not part of buying tools, adding it to your
collection?

Chris

Well, the larger HDs with legit rental departments probably help reduce
this a bit for the more honest folks. They also have better tools for
some tasks such as Hilti drills.

Of course I doubt anyone on this group would do the buy/use/return thing
since we're always looking for an excuse to buy more tools.

Pete C.

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:47:22 -0700, daniel peterman wrote:
Went to Home Depot to buy a chainsaw chain yesterday. Two on the peg of
the size I needed. Both packages had been opened (as were many other
sizes) and one had obviously been used quite a bit. It was all covered
with oil and wood shavings. Obviously someone had the nerve to return a
worn blade and Home depot took it back and tried to resell it at full
price. Nice ethics, eh?

I've stopped buying re-sealed packages. Over the years, I've
(temporarily) bought:
- a package of spark plugs which were, yes, spark plugs, but the take-outs
from whoever returned the box to the store
- One 5 gallon pail of drywall mud, which had been emptied, filled with
water, and returned to Menards
- Electronics items which didn't work, and had probably been returned by
someone else for the same reason
...and probably others. Now, if it's not the factory seal, even if it's
the last one I won't buy it. There's always going to be some unethical
idiot pulling crap like this, and there's always, apparently, a store
droid who doesn't even bother to look at what's being returned.

Never seen something as dramatic as a chainsaw chain, though. You have
to wonder what the clerk was thinking, taking it back, and restocking
it.

I'll consider open box stuff, as long as it's not sealed and I can
validate that the product is intact. Lately I've seen the functional
returns on a separate clearance table along with other closeout stuff,
with some level of markdown.

Pete C.

Chris wrote:

"User Example" wrote in message
m...
From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.


It's no matter to them. Most people don't take the time to exchange their
broken tools so they make more money on their "free replacelment image"
than the money they actually spend on replacing their tools. Sears isn't
the only ones who offer this, though. Home Depot and even those crappy
tools from Harbor Freight usually have the same warranty.

But not all Sears tools are replaceble. They do sell some non-Craftsman
brand tools that aren't covered and I don't think Craftsman electric tools
are covered either.

I call it advertising. How much does Sears pay for that 1/2" universal?
Maybe less than a dollar? Compare that to how much they spend on
advertising to get a customer in the store?

If you notice, most of the larger stores have the tool section buried.
Either in the basement, far corner etc. Just to make you walk through the
store to return. Sort of like casinos. Although I never understood how fire
codes allow casinos to get away with the puzzle maze they create. Oh ya,
they have money.

Chris

The tool department is usually off in a corner, but in the two Sears I'm
familiar with (in two different states) both are immediately next to
exterior doors. It's not the main entrance, but it's still an entrance
and if you've been there before you know what door to park near.

As for the Casinos and fire codes, you don't really notice under normal
conditions, but the maze is only with the normal traffic flow. There are
big double/quadruple emergency exit doors that open to dedicated
hallways to take you outside. I saw a couple maint. folks coming through
one set and could see a clear straight 20' wide hallway to exterior
doors.

Pete C.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Bugs" wrote:
Do you know how to spell ETHICS?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anyone can SPELL it. Do you know what it means?



It. I-T. It.

What did I win? :-)

Relz

carl mciver wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
| I went with a bud returning a 3/4" breaker bar. The counter guy handed
him
| a new one but held on saying: "I just gotta know, how long was the pipe
you
| put on it?" (six foot)

Breaker bars they must see a lot, but I can't see a human breaking a
3/4" breaker bar without torque assistance. With a lack of evidence proving
otherwise, they must make you walk out happy. I brought in a 1/2" breaker
bar that had been in my dad's tool box for years when he died and I acquired
some of the tools. It was so old the fellow was thinking it wasn't a
Craftsman. The swivel on the new one was a lot cheaper than the old one,
and doesn't hold quite right. Shame.

There's a considerable market for the older Craftsman tools in my area,
the new stuff is an order of magnitude less desireable.

I learned a few years ago that the same folks who make Proto, Blackhawk,
Challenger, and a couple others that escape me, also make Sears' hand tools.
I was chatting with a Blackhawk sales guy and made some crack about Sears'
tools and he informed me that they made them also.

I did a weigh scale repair job at a place called National Hand Tool
north of Dallas many years ago. Jammed in and all around inside the scale
was gobs of sockets and smaller hand tools that had an assortment of common
vendor's names on them. I don't recall the names and was surprised, but
when I watched a very large and obviously expensive machine punching out
sockets from a roll of large wire, I realized why they did it. The tooling
to forge sockets and wrenches in a production rate are so ungodly expensive,
so one maker put various names on them for the vendor, which is normal in
other industries; I just wasn't expecting it there.

I have noticed that my Car Craft store sells Blackhawk tools for the
same price or less than Sears. Warranty just as good, of course, and made
by the same company. That's my source from now on, since the Car Craft is
closer than Sears and the folks there know tools a bit better than that
sassy clerk in snug black pants (I must admit the scenery isn't quite as
nice, though!)

I bought a Blackhawk socket set some years back, when the name first
came to my area.. I hate 'em; the ratchets are OK, but I like my SK
ratchets better, and the sockets have the tiniest/shallowest stampings
on them I've ever seen- very difficult to read. They're very good
quality, but a pain to see the size stamped on them.

My favorite ratchet is the Williams Superatchet, the fine-tooth SK are
about as friendly. The basic SK is a mighty ratchet, very smooth once
they break in. I've got a long-handled 1/2" drive SK ratchet I picked up
at a yard sale for $10:-D.. It's longer than most breaker bars, very
cool ratchet.

Bought a NAPA branded 3/4", 1/2" drive impact socket recently, pretty
nice socket.. has the recessed corners, but is thicker walled than most.
Not bad price, seems it was around $13, I'll probably go with that brand
if I need any more.

John

carl mciver wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
| I went with a bud returning a 3/4" breaker bar. The counter guy handed
him
| a new one but held on saying: "I just gotta know, how long was the pipe
you
| put on it?" (six foot)

Breaker bars they must see a lot, but I can't see a human breaking a
3/4" breaker bar without torque assistance. With a lack of evidence proving
otherwise, they must make you walk out happy. I brought in a 1/2" breaker
bar that had been in my dad's tool box for years when he died and I acquired
some of the tools. It was so old the fellow was thinking it wasn't a
Craftsman. The swivel on the new one was a lot cheaper than the old one,
and doesn't hold quite right. Shame.

They are obligated to replace it anyway. Their warranty is a
satisfaction warranty, not a manufacturing defect warranty and there is
no exclusion for abuse. They simply have done the statistics just like
an insurance company and know what their margins have to be to insure a
profit based on the expected rate of returns. They also realize that
they need to maintain a level of quality control to minimize the
returns.

I learned a few years ago that the same folks who make Proto, Blackhawk,
Challenger, and a couple others that escape me, also make Sears' hand tools.
I was chatting with a Blackhawk sales guy and made some crack about Sears'
tools and he informed me that they made them also.

There are multiple manufacturers for the Craftsman line, and they change
periodically. If you look at say a screwdriver from several different
years you will find the same screwdriver, same part number and a few
extra codes that are different indicating that the lots were produced by
different manufacturers (not just a date code).

They contract with the lowest bidder to produce their products to their
specs. Companies bidding produce samples for QC evaluation before the
selection. They want to keep the "Made in USA" on the tools so they
generally stick with US companies (or perhaps foreign companies with a
US plant), but they get bid samples from all over.


I did a weigh scale repair job at a place called National Hand Tool
north of Dallas many years ago. Jammed in and all around inside the scale
was gobs of sockets and smaller hand tools that had an assortment of common
vendor's names on them. I don't recall the names and was surprised, but
when I watched a very large and obviously expensive machine punching out
sockets from a roll of large wire, I realized why they did it. The tooling
to forge sockets and wrenches in a production rate are so ungodly expensive,
so one maker put various names on them for the vendor, which is normal in
other industries; I just wasn't expecting it there.

Yep, big expensive toys. Sears is basically a marketer, not a
manufacturer, they have their products produced by other companies,
though I believe they do have a design and QC unit that develops the
products that they will have produced.

The big manufacturers who do produce comparable tools under their own
brands are happy to have the extra OEM business.


I have noticed that my Car Craft store sells Blackhawk tools for the
same price or less than Sears. Warranty just as good, of course, and made
by the same company. That's my source from now on, since the Car Craft is
closer than Sears and the folks there know tools a bit better than that
sassy clerk in snug black pants (I must admit the scenery isn't quite as
nice, though!)

The same products are available many different places these days so it's
largely a function of service, convenience and price. I remind places of
that from time to time when I get lousy service and blacklist them for a
few months. I still purchase the exact same things for those months, but
from their competitor across the street.

Pete C.

Fortunately I don;t have a Sears/ Crapsman problem since I went on the
wagon and gave up doing business with or having anything made by or
sold by Sears / Crapsman...Life is good!

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
"Pete C." wrote:

User Example wrote:

From the warrantee info in the latest Craftsman catalog: "If any
Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it
to Sears for free repair or replacement"

It doesn't say anything about failing due to a manufacturing defect and
makes no exclusion for abuse. One would hope he purchased a proper
impact rated swivel while he was there though.


It's no matter to them. Most people don't take the time to exchange
their broken tools so they make more money on their "free replacelment
image" than the money they actually spend on replacing their tools.
Sears isn't the only ones who offer this, though. Home Depot and even
those crappy tools from Harbor Freight usually have the same warranty.

But not all Sears tools are replaceble. They do sell some non-Craftsman
brand tools that aren't covered and I don't think Craftsman electric
tools are covered either.

Correct, it's only the Craftsman hand tools that have this warranty. The
Companion line is not covered, nor are the power tools.

Be aware when buying the "Craftsman - Guaranteed forever" tools,
though... Although technically it applies to them, practically speaking,
the Craftsman-tagged items that are just that - tagged with the name
Craftsman, either stamped, stickered, or dangling from a string, rather
than having the name being physically part of the tool - can and have
been turned down for replacement as "not Craftsman" if the label is
gone/illegible for whatever reason. Give preference to the ones that
have the Craftsman name molded, forged, or otherwise *PERMANENTLY AN
INTEGRAL PART* of the tool, not just attached to it. The combination
wrenches are a great example - Unless they've somehow deteriorated so
badly that the forged-in Craftsman name on 'em is obliterated, there
will never be any question that it's a "guaranteed forever" item.

The power tools USED TO be covered - Back in the late 70's/early 80's,
my dad took in my grandfather's ancient Craftsman circular saw (bit of
history: That saw was used on a daily basis on the construction of the
Mackinac Bridge - by my grandfather, who was employed on the project as
a concrete-former for the south tower caisson - *LOTTA* metal in that
project) after it got a loaded dump-truck backed over it on a job-site,
and it (literally) went all to pieces.

Dad shoveled it into a potato-chip case and hauled it in, and the guy
behind the counter's eyebrows just about crawled all the way to the back
of his neck. He said "Wow, haven't seen one of those in ages. You know I
can't give you the same model, right?" Dad was understanding - After
all, the saw was only 30-some-odd years old, and as far as anybody was
able to tell, hadn't been made in 20 years. He came away more than
satisfied, since he'd only been about half-serious about trying to
claim on the guarantee, and was prepared to be buying a new one anyway.
What he ended up with was a newer model saw at no charge. One that was
at least as good, and last I knew, was still going strong after wearing
out its third set of brushes and god-only-knows how many blades.

I've taken advantage of the warranty on occasion. While I try not to
abuse my tools (too much), after some years the phillips screwdrivers do
get a bit chewed up and some of the flat blades get broken tips. It's
nice to just bring them in to Sears with me when I go there for other
stuff and have nice new ones when I leave.

Exactly. And to my eyes, that's *PRECISELY* what it's there for.

As far as how much they "lose" to abuse of it... Well, since the
majority of people are basically honest, I'd say that it's very little
in the overall cashflow. Particularly since so often, somebody dragging
in a warranty item is going to wander through the store and buy
something else on the way in or out. Never mind the good will it'll
generate, which means that the guy who just "ripped you off" for a $30
torque wrench that he used as a hammer is probably going to come back
and buy a $300 TV set next month, and maybe bring the kids in for
back-to-school clothes to the tune of $250, and hey, lookit that neat
gizmo! for another $50, and...

I'm pretty certain that the "loss" on it is insignificant when taken as
part of the big picture. If that weren't the case, they'd either be
shutting it down entirely, or spewing red ink by the supertanker-load.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

The tool department is usually off in a corner, but in the two Sears I'm
familiar with (in two different states) both are immediately next to
exterior doors. It's not the main entrance, but it's still an entrance
and if you've been there before you know what door to park near.

As for the Casinos and fire codes, you don't really notice under normal
conditions, but the maze is only with the normal traffic flow. There are
big double/quadruple emergency exit doors that open to dedicated
hallways to take you outside. I saw a couple maint. folks coming through
one set and could see a clear straight 20' wide hallway to exterior
doors.

Pete C.

Pete,
Same here with my somewhat local store, right next to the door. What scares
me is it is like a ghost town (and it is in a fairly large city maybe 120k
people?). Good side is I always get front row parking.

How many people actually know about these doors???? You know how people
panic. First instinct is to go back the way you came? Plus I am sure that
the normal casino crowd, is somewhat low on the IQ level. Worse yet a good
majority do not speak English.

Either way not a place that I would want to be in when the fire bell rings.
In this hindsight being 20/20 world that we live in, I can only imagine the
maze will be banned after the first person dies, when a fire breaks out.

Chris

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
carl mciver wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
| I went with a bud returning a 3/4" breaker bar. The counter guy handed
him
| a new one but held on saying: "I just gotta know, how long was the
pipe
you
| put on it?" (six foot)

Breaker bars they must see a lot, but I can't see a human breaking a
3/4" breaker bar without torque assistance. With a lack of evidence
proving
otherwise, they must make you walk out happy. I brought in a 1/2"
breaker
bar that had been in my dad's tool box for years when he died and I
acquired
some of the tools. It was so old the fellow was thinking it wasn't a
Craftsman. The swivel on the new one was a lot cheaper than the old one,
and doesn't hold quite right. Shame.

They are obligated to replace it anyway. Their warranty is a
satisfaction warranty, not a manufacturing defect warranty and there is
no exclusion for abuse. They simply have done the statistics just like
an insurance company and know what their margins have to be to insure a
profit based on the expected rate of returns. They also realize that
they need to maintain a level of quality control to minimize the
returns.

I learned a few years ago that the same folks who make Proto,
Blackhawk,
Challenger, and a couple others that escape me, also make Sears' hand
tools.
I was chatting with a Blackhawk sales guy and made some crack about
Sears'
tools and he informed me that they made them also.

There are multiple manufacturers for the Craftsman line, and they change
periodically. If you look at say a screwdriver from several different
years you will find the same screwdriver, same part number and a few
extra codes that are different indicating that the lots were produced by
different manufacturers (not just a date code).

They contract with the lowest bidder to produce their products to their
specs. Companies bidding produce samples for QC evaluation before the
selection. They want to keep the "Made in USA" on the tools so they
generally stick with US companies (or perhaps foreign companies with a
US plant), but they get bid samples from all over.


I recently purchased a tap and die replacement set from Sears. Stamped
clearly on the outside of the box "Made in USA" Opened the set when I go
home, first thing that caught my attention as I opened the box was a thread
gauge that was clearly marked, "Made in Germany" Go figure.

I always try to buy tools made in the USA, hand tools at least. To be
honest, I am starting to give up on the idea. I look 5-10 years down the
road and see no more tools made in the USA. I see Sears out of business, so
what is a home mechanic to do? Snap On truck not going to stop at my house
when I break a socket (if they are still around). Lots of options, but it
might be worth the gamble buying the cheap imports.


I did a weigh scale repair job at a place called National Hand Tool
north of Dallas many years ago. Jammed in and all around inside the
scale
was gobs of sockets and smaller hand tools that had an assortment of
common
vendor's names on them. I don't recall the names and was surprised, but
when I watched a very large and obviously expensive machine punching out
sockets from a roll of large wire, I realized why they did it. The
tooling
to forge sockets and wrenches in a production rate are so ungodly
expensive,
so one maker put various names on them for the vendor, which is normal in
other industries; I just wasn't expecting it there.

Yep, big expensive toys. Sears is basically a marketer, not a
manufacturer, they have their products produced by other companies,
though I believe they do have a design and QC unit that develops the
products that they will have produced.

The big manufacturers who do produce comparable tools under their own
brands are happy to have the extra OEM business.


If I remember correctly it was Emerson that use to do all the hand-tools for
Sears. Some disputes arose and now Sears bids them out across numerous
manufactures. Lowest price wins type of deal.

Again I think it is Emerson who is now making the Husky line seen at HD.
Also thought I heard that Emerson was bought out by Stanley.

Also in the rumor mill is that Snap On is now stamping tools for Lowe's.

Chris wrote:


The tool department is usually off in a corner, but in the two Sears I'm
familiar with (in two different states) both are immediately next to
exterior doors. It's not the main entrance, but it's still an entrance
and if you've been there before you know what door to park near.

As for the Casinos and fire codes, you don't really notice under normal
conditions, but the maze is only with the normal traffic flow. There are
big double/quadruple emergency exit doors that open to dedicated
hallways to take you outside. I saw a couple maint. folks coming through
one set and could see a clear straight 20' wide hallway to exterior
doors.

Pete C.

Pete,
Same here with my somewhat local store, right next to the door. What scares
me is it is like a ghost town (and it is in a fairly large city maybe 120k
people?). Good side is I always get front row parking.

Yea, not many people actually do anything anymore.


How many people actually know about these doors???? You know how people
panic. First instinct is to go back the way you came? Plus I am sure that
the normal casino crowd, is somewhat low on the IQ level. Worse yet a good
majority do not speak English.

That's why the huge numbers of casino staff are trained just like flight
crews to get the emergency doors open and guide people to them.


Either way not a place that I would want to be in when the fire bell rings.
In this hindsight being 20/20 world that we live in, I can only imagine the
maze will be banned after the first person dies, when a fire breaks out.

Chris

I'm pretty sure after all these years that they've had their share of
incidents requiring evacuation. I'm confident they have that part
figured out. My concern would be what happens when you get the masses
out in the 110 degree Vegas sun. I hope they have a plan to get them to
shade and water pretty quickly.

Pete C.

Roy wrote:

Fortunately I don;t have a Sears/ Crapsman problem since I went on the
wagon and gave up doing business with or having anything made by or
sold by Sears / Crapsman...Life is good!

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

I've never had a problem with their hand tools. For power tools I stick
to Milwaukee, Hilti, Makita, etc.

Pete C.

JohnM wrote:

carl mciver wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
| I went with a bud returning a 3/4" breaker bar. The counter guy handed
him
| a new one but held on saying: "I just gotta know, how long was the pipe
you
| put on it?" (six foot)

Breaker bars they must see a lot, but I can't see a human breaking a
3/4" breaker bar without torque assistance. With a lack of evidence proving
otherwise, they must make you walk out happy. I brought in a 1/2" breaker
bar that had been in my dad's tool box for years when he died and I acquired
some of the tools. It was so old the fellow was thinking it wasn't a
Craftsman. The swivel on the new one was a lot cheaper than the old one,
and doesn't hold quite right. Shame.

There's a considerable market for the older Craftsman tools in my area,
the new stuff is an order of magnitude less desireable.

I learned a few years ago that the same folks who make Proto, Blackhawk,
Challenger, and a couple others that escape me, also make Sears' hand tools.
I was chatting with a Blackhawk sales guy and made some crack about Sears'
tools and he informed me that they made them also.

I did a weigh scale repair job at a place called National Hand Tool
north of Dallas many years ago. Jammed in and all around inside the scale
was gobs of sockets and smaller hand tools that had an assortment of common
vendor's names on them. I don't recall the names and was surprised, but
when I watched a very large and obviously expensive machine punching out
sockets from a roll of large wire, I realized why they did it. The tooling
to forge sockets and wrenches in a production rate are so ungodly expensive,
so one maker put various names on them for the vendor, which is normal in
other industries; I just wasn't expecting it there.

I have noticed that my Car Craft store sells Blackhawk tools for the
same price or less than Sears. Warranty just as good, of course, and made
by the same company. That's my source from now on, since the Car Craft is
closer than Sears and the folks there know tools a bit better than that
sassy clerk in snug black pants (I must admit the scenery isn't quite as
nice, though!)

I bought a Blackhawk socket set some years back, when the name first
came to my area.. I hate 'em; the ratchets are OK, but I like my SK
ratchets better, and the sockets have the tiniest/shallowest stampings
on them I've ever seen- very difficult to read. They're very good
quality, but a pain to see the size stamped on them.

The current laser etched sockets from Sears / Craftsman are rather nice
and easy to read.

Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:

I'm pretty sure after all these years that they've had their share of
incidents requiring evacuation. I'm confident they have that part
figured out. My concern would be what happens when you get the masses
out in the 110 degree Vegas sun. I hope they have a plan to get them to
shade and water pretty quickly.

Pete C.

I do hope you are right on that one. Only time will tell I guess. Although
relaying on the employees is not too sound in my eyes.

Did you happen to see the recent documentary on the Greek ship that sunk of
the coast of South Africa, Captain and officers were the first off the
ship. Heck the passengers did not even know the ship was in trouble until
the Captain and most of the officers were gone.

I am sure most lost their jobs over this. Just hope that they are not
working in a casino now.

Chris

Chris wrote:


snip


I recently purchased a tap and die replacement set from Sears. Stamped
clearly on the outside of the box "Made in USA" Opened the set when I go
home, first thing that caught my attention as I opened the box was a thread
gauge that was clearly marked, "Made in Germany" Go figure.

I always try to buy tools made in the USA, hand tools at least. To be
honest, I am starting to give up on the idea. I look 5-10 years down the
road and see no more tools made in the USA. I see Sears out of business, so
what is a home mechanic to do? Snap On truck not going to stop at my house
when I break a socket (if they are still around). Lots of options, but it
might be worth the gamble buying the cheap imports.


The can still label the package "Made in USA" if the primary contents
are. Incidentals like the thread gauge aren't counted. Same thing on a
clamping set I bought from MSC for my Bridgeport, I sprung the extra $20
or so for the USA version which turned out to be TeCo and was clearly
labeled that the clamping components were US made and the plastic
storage rack was made in China.

snip


Yep, big expensive toys. Sears is basically a marketer, not a
manufacturer, they have their products produced by other companies,
though I believe they do have a design and QC unit that develops the
products that they will have produced.

The big manufacturers who do produce comparable tools under their own
brands are happy to have the extra OEM business.


If I remember correctly it was Emerson that use to do all the hand-tools for
Sears. Some disputes arose and now Sears bids them out across numerous
manufactures. Lowest price wins type of deal.

Lowest price that can meet QC, since just the lowest price could well
kill them on their replacement guaranty.


Again I think it is Emerson who is now making the Husky line seen at HD.
Also thought I heard that Emerson was bought out by Stanley.

Also in the rumor mill is that Snap On is now stamping tools for Lowe's.

Nothing wrong with a good manufacturer OEMing house branded stuff. You
can buy the name brand version and pay more, or buy the house branded
version and save a few $ while still getting a good product.

Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:


snip


The can still label the package "Made in USA" if the primary contents
are. Incidentals like the thread gauge aren't counted. Same thing on a
clamping set I bought from MSC for my Bridgeport, I sprung the extra $20
or so for the USA version which turned out to be TeCo and was clearly
labeled that the clamping components were US made and the plastic
storage rack was made in China.

I thought the government had done away with that?? I remember the example
used way back when...... Stoves being made in Mexico. The knobs were
shipped in a different box. Knob put on in the USA and the entire thing was
called "Made in the USA" Sort of like the same law were car window stickers
tell you how much is made in which countries now adays.


Yep, big expensive toys. Sears is basically a marketer, not a
manufacturer, they have their products produced by other companies,
though I believe they do have a design and QC unit that develops the
products that they will have produced.

The big manufacturers who do produce comparable tools under their own
brands are happy to have the extra OEM business.


If I remember correctly it was Emerson that use to do all the hand-tools
for
Sears. Some disputes arose and now Sears bids them out across numerous
manufactures. Lowest price wins type of deal.

Lowest price that can meet QC, since just the lowest price could well
kill them on their replacement guaranty.


You are correct. I should of stated it as; lowest price that meets our QC.

Again I think it is Emerson who is now making the Husky line seen at HD.
Also thought I heard that Emerson was bought out by Stanley.

Also in the rumor mill is that Snap On is now stamping tools for Lowe's.

Nothing wrong with a good manufacturer OEMing house branded stuff. You
can buy the name brand version and pay more, or buy the house branded
version and save a few $ while still getting a good product.

You are 100% correct, nothing wrong at all. Although, it must be upsetting
to have $40k in Snap On tools and see almost the same stuff in Lowes at 1/2
the price. I am sure they are coming off the same machines. Weather they
are using the same stock and other processes I am sure is in question.

Even more interesting is to see what the Snap On truck drivers think about
the rebranding.

Only wish a Lowes was closer.

Chris