I've been asked to make some decorative turnings out of brass. Can
someone point me to a FAQ or give me suggestions as to type of cutting
tools to use, fluids for a nice visually appealing surface, and cutting
angles? These will eventually be polished; I assume doing that while
it's on the lathe is easiest?

Also, for a brass door handle, should I coat it with something to try to
keep it bright, or just set their expectations that it will develop a
patina over time, or is there a way to get a bronze-ish patina started?
Not going for the green verdigris look, just maybe an antique-brass-
without-paint-airbrush look. If "wait" is the best technique, that's
fine, though.

Any suggestions are most welcome. I assume I have to turn with the
speed fairly high and to take light cuts, but I've never done this sort
of thing in brass before.

Thanks,
Dave Hinz

Brass is probably the easiest metal to turn. Put a nice radius on your
tool bit and you can get a glass smooth finish. You don't really need
cutting fluid but if you want to keep it cool kerosene works fine.
Brownells gunsmithing catalog carries brass finishing liquids but I
think most of them are for blackening the brass. Good luck with it.
73 Gary N9ZSV

I turn a lot of brass at work.
I don't know what sort of lathe you are using, or what tooling you have
available.
Dad has always been a huge proponent of neg rake tooling when using HSS
Using carbide, I have gotten the best finishes with carbide inserts designed
for Aluminum, very high positive rake.
I use surface speeds from 200 to 400fpm.


"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to make some decorative turnings out of brass. Can
someone point me to a FAQ or give me suggestions as to type of cutting
tools to use, fluids for a nice visually appealing surface, and cutting
angles? These will eventually be polished; I assume doing that while
it's on the lathe is easiest?

Also, for a brass door handle, should I coat it with something to try to
keep it bright, or just set their expectations that it will develop a
patina over time, or is there a way to get a bronze-ish patina started?
Not going for the green verdigris look, just maybe an antique-brass-
without-paint-airbrush look. If "wait" is the best technique, that's
fine, though.

Any suggestions are most welcome. I assume I have to turn with the
speed fairly high and to take light cuts, but I've never done this sort
of thing in brass before.

Thanks,
Dave Hinz

"Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
Brass is probably the easiest metal to turn.

Depends on the alloy. There are copper based alloys that are a nightmare.
Leaded phosphor bronze is the finest material to machine I've ever
encountered, and I've cut one hell of a lot of materials in my day.
Without lead, it's a totally different animal.

Put a nice radius on your
tool bit and you can get a glass smooth finish. You don't really need
cutting fluid but if you want to keep it cool kerosene works fine.
Brownells gunsmithing catalog carries brass finishing liquids but I
think most of them are for blackening the brass. Good luck with it.
73 Gary N9ZSV


Also, check in Machinery's Handbook----there's several well detailed methods
of coloring brass or bronze.

Harold

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to make some decorative turnings out of brass. Can
someone point me to a FAQ or give me suggestions as to type of cutting
tools to use, fluids for a nice visually appealing surface, and cutting
angles? These will eventually be polished; I assume doing that while
it's on the lathe is easiest?

Much depends on the machine you have at your disposal. Brass has a serious
tendency to hog, but works well with positive rake when the lathe is robust
enough. A small machine running positive rake is surely to yield problems,
where a large machine could be very forgiving. What often works well is a
cutter with a positive rake established by the chip breaker, such that the
breaker itself tends to limit the ability of the cut to hog. A tool thus
ground is generally well suited to a particular feed and depth of cut, so
you may not achieve the results you desire without considerable
experimenting if you're not familiar with grinding such tools.

The advice to use a reasonable radius is good, but avoid lubrication if
possible. Most oils discolor brass/bronze quickly, especially if they have
sulfur as an additive.

Also, for a brass door handle, should I coat it with something to try to
keep it bright, or just set their expectations that it will develop a
patina over time, or is there a way to get a bronze-ish patina started?
Not going for the green verdigris look, just maybe an antique-brass-
without-paint-airbrush look. If "wait" is the best technique, that's
fine, though.


As I stated before, Machinery's Handbook has some good information in that
regard. One thing to understand----items such as a door knob will start
out with the desired patina, but will soon wear such that they are somewhat,
if not fully, polished down to the base color, and shiny, but only where
they get well handled. Depends on the traffic, and the exposure to the
elements. I have oil rubbed fittings on my shop doors (commercial
stuff--Sergeant) and that's what they have done.

Any suggestions are most welcome. I assume I have to turn with the
speed fairly high and to take light cuts, but I've never done this sort
of thing in brass before.

Again, all depends on your machine, and the choice of material. Leaded
phosphor bronze works beautifully, and cuts with a very nice chip, or if you
can find some typical bearing brass, 85-5-5-5, it machines nicely,
too. ------Other materials may not cut as well, and likely will not. If you
have any trouble at all with hogging, reduce your rake angle. Don't worry
about speed, you can run most of these materials pretty much flat out---but
make sure they're free machining grades. Aluminum bronze, or manganese
bronze, for example, are more difficult to machine than drill rod.

Sorry I'm not more help. Too many variables to be conclusive.

Harold

Good information in the responses.

Be careful of the rake on your tooling. Brass tends to be very
"grabby" and will tend to pull the tool in. Light / old lathes
thend to have a lot of backlash and flex in the feeds which
amplifies the problem. Manual with our Emco 10X24 suggests 5 to
8 degrees clearance and 0 degree rake for brass. Unless you are
using leaded brass, long stringy chips may be a problem. Keep a
chip hook and / or long needle nose pliers handy.

GmcD



On 17 Aug 2005 19:53:45 GMT, Dave Hinz
wrote:

I've been asked to make some decorative turnings out of brass. Can
someone point me to a FAQ or give me suggestions as to type of cutting
tools to use, fluids for a nice visually appealing surface, and cutting
angles? These will eventually be polished; I assume doing that while
it's on the lathe is easiest?

Also, for a brass door handle, should I coat it with something to try to
keep it bright, or just set their expectations that it will develop a
patina over time, or is there a way to get a bronze-ish patina started?
Not going for the green verdigris look, just maybe an antique-brass-
without-paint-airbrush look. If "wait" is the best technique, that's
fine, though.

Any suggestions are most welcome. I assume I have to turn with the
speed fairly high and to take light cuts, but I've never done this sort
of thing in brass before.

Thanks,
Dave Hinz

If you live in a big city and want that door knob to stay shiny take it to a
music store's brass instrument repair department. They will buff it up,
degrease it, spray it with an epoxy finish and bake the finish on for you.
Just as long as they throw it in with another lot it shouldn't cost much.
You could do all this at home but the bake on epoxy finish is hard to find
in small amounts.

This finish is about as good as you can get!

LB

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to make some decorative turnings out of brass. Can
someone point me to a FAQ or give me suggestions as to type of cutting
tools to use, fluids for a nice visually appealing surface, and cutting
angles? These will eventually be polished; I assume doing that while
it's on the lathe is easiest?

Also, for a brass door handle, should I coat it with something to try to
keep it bright, or just set their expectations that it will develop a
patina over time, or is there a way to get a bronze-ish patina started?
Not going for the green verdigris look, just maybe an antique-brass-
without-paint-airbrush look. If "wait" is the best technique, that's
fine, though.

Any suggestions are most welcome. I assume I have to turn with the
speed fairly high and to take light cuts, but I've never done this sort
of thing in brass before.

Thanks,
Dave Hinz

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:19:40 -0700, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Also, check in Machinery's Handbook----there's several well detailed methods
of coloring brass or bronze.

Of course...should have thought of that. Thanks, Harold and Gary!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:12:31 -0700, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
Much depends on the machine you have at your disposal. Brass has a serious
tendency to hog,

That's what I've been finding over the last couple of evenings...

but works well with positive rake when the lathe is robust
enough.

which implies light cuts, then? My lathe is a 12" Rockwell, which I
wouldn't call "huge".

A small machine running positive rake is surely to yield problems,
where a large machine could be very forgiving. What often works well is a
cutter with a positive rake established by the chip breaker, such that the
breaker itself tends to limit the ability of the cut to hog. A tool thus
ground is generally well suited to a particular feed and depth of cut, so
you may not achieve the results you desire without considerable
experimenting if you're not familiar with grinding such tools.

I think I see what you're saying here.

The advice to use a reasonable radius is good, but avoid lubrication if
possible. Most oils discolor brass/bronze quickly, especially if they have
sulfur as an additive.

Good to know, and this also is something I noticed last night.

One thing to understand----items such as a door knob will start
out with the desired patina, but will soon wear such that they are somewhat,
if not fully, polished down to the base color, and shiny, but only where
they get well handled.

That's kind of the plan.

Any suggestions are most welcome. I assume I have to turn with the
speed fairly high and to take light cuts, but I've never done this sort
of thing in brass before.

Again, all depends on your machine, and the choice of material. Leaded
phosphor bronze works beautifully, and cuts with a very nice chip,

Any handling concerns with a leaded metal? I'm not paranoid but I'd
hate to make something for someone else if it's a potential problem.

or if you
can find some typical bearing brass, 85-5-5-5, it machines nicely,
too. ------Other materials may not cut as well, and likely will not. If you
have any trouble at all with hogging, reduce your rake angle. Don't worry
about speed, you can run most of these materials pretty much flat out---but
make sure they're free machining grades. Aluminum bronze, or manganese
bronze, for example, are more difficult to machine than drill rod.

Sorry I'm not more help. Too many variables to be conclusive.

Well, if nothing else, you've showed me that I know more about what I
don't know than I knew I didn't know before, you know?

Thanks,
Dave Hinz

which implies light cuts, then? My lathe is a 12" Rockwell, which I

No such animal. Rockwell made a 10, 11 and 14 inch lathes.

I have the 11 and it is more than adequate for turning brass.
I suspect the 10 would be fine too.

chuck

On 18 Aug 2005 18:53:59 GMT, Chuck Sherwood wrote:
which implies light cuts, then? My lathe is a 12" Rockwell, which I

No such animal. Rockwell made a 10, 11 and 14 inch lathes.

My mistake. It's an 11. Looks like a newer version of this:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/delta%20metal/page2.html
I think mine is longer than the one pictured as well. But yeah.

I have the 11 and it is more than adequate for turning brass.
I suspect the 10 would be fine too.

Thanks!

Daev

I've read you should turn brass with a zero-rake tool to avoid its
being drawn into the work, so that's what I use on my home shop lathe.

Since we're told to grind in more rake for softer materials, it sounds
like turning is a peeling operation. Zero or less rake would seem to
crowd the material off.

So what's different about brass? And is Jon's lathe at work stiffer
and faster than what we're likely to have at home? I'd be pressing
pretty hard to hit those speeds.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've read you should turn brass with a zero-rake tool to avoid its
being drawn into the work, so that's what I use on my home shop lathe.

Since we're told to grind in more rake for softer materials, it sounds
like turning is a peeling operation. Zero or less rake would seem to
crowd the material off.

So what's different about brass? And is Jon's lathe at work stiffer
and faster than what we're likely to have at home? I'd be pressing
pretty hard to hit those speeds.


It's pretty hard to have a home shop machinist understand the differences in
machine tools unless they're run machines intended for industry. To many,
a lathe is a lathe, but nothing is farther from the truth. For one,
industrial machines are far more robust, so offer incredible rigidity,
especially as compared to small, bench model machines. Further, they are
typically powered by large motors, whereas the typical home shop lathe is
powered by a fractional hp motor. Industrial lathes are intended to be run
at proper speeds for the work at hand, therefore are usually geared (and
powered) accordingly. Top speed on the typical 12" machine should be 2,000
RPM, with some (Monarch EE, for example) going as high as 4,000, depending
on the lathe. While I can't speak for Jon's machine, my hunch is he's
running one that is industrially rated, and can do things that would be
difficult, if not impossible, for the typical home shop machine.

Understand that none of these comments are intended to be negative in
nature, and not intended to be insulting to the home shop machine, or
machinist. It's just that their machines have little in common with
industrial machines. It's much like comparing a half ton pickup with an
18 wheeler. Hardly the same critter, although both of them can drive
down the highway.

Having said that, a robust machine will better tolerate positive rake in
brass, due in part to the fact that the machine resists hogging by virtue of
its mass. Takes more energy to move the machine, in other words. One
goes to zero or very slight positive rake on small machines to overcome the
problem, where a carriage may not weigh more than a few pounds. Needless
to say, if the part is large and the cut is heavy, even large machines can
be plagued with hogging.

Hogging is the quality one finds in free machining brass, but it is not
restricted to those alloys. Even mild steel will hog if tool geometry is
wrong. Because the material cuts easily, it pulls itself into the cut.
That can be controlled by rake, or by clearance. The best solution is to
work it out for your specific application, for what works well for your
machine may not work well for another. We're back to the ability of the
machine. There's too many variables to be specific.

Harold

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:12:31 -0700, Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:
Much depends on the machine you have at your disposal. Brass has a
serious
tendency to hog,

That's what I've been finding over the last couple of evenings...

but works well with positive rake when the lathe is robust
enough.

which implies light cuts, then? My lathe is a 12" Rockwell, which I
wouldn't call "huge".

Not necessarily, although the lathe is not a heavy machine. They are
considered a light duty machine, but might be found in industry under
unusual circumstances. When you run light duty machines, you can still
take a serious cut, particularly in free machining material, but tool
geometry is very important. The lathe is not forgiving. You don't need
much HP, for the brass you should be machining is quite free cutting. What
you do have to have is geometry that prevents hogging. You'd be absolutely
amazed at the cut you can take when you have the tool right. Fast feed
(.015" easily) and deep cuts, say .200"/side. Setup must be proper, or
you risk problems.

snip

Any handling concerns with a leaded metal? I'm not paranoid but I'd
hate to make something for someone else if it's a potential problem.

Not as far as I'm concerned, but the world may not agree. They're doing
just about anything and everything to eliminate lead from use, or so it
seems. I'm sure anyone can make a health issue from this
conversation----and they're likely right, but I can't help but wonder if
maybe we've gone too far. How many years will it take to wear away a
door knob? How much of that lost material is ingested? Dunno. I work
with leaded materials, but wash my hands before handling food, and I'm not a
finger licker kind of guy. YMMV.

or if you
can find some typical bearing brass, 85-5-5-5, it machines nicely,
too. ------Other materials may not cut as well, and likely will not. If
you
have any trouble at all with hogging, reduce your rake angle. Don't
worry
about speed, you can run most of these materials pretty much flat
out---but
make sure they're free machining grades. Aluminum bronze, or manganese
bronze, for example, are more difficult to machine than drill rod.

Sorry I'm not more help. Too many variables to be conclusive.

Well, if nothing else, you've showed me that I know more about what I
don't know than I knew I didn't know before, you know?

Chuckle! Yeah. It's a stretch for me to even talk about it. I've been off
the machines for a long time and have forgotten one hell of a lot. These
conversations are helping bring some of it back.

Thanks,
Dave Hinz


And to you as well!

Harold

On 18 Aug 2005 19:01:20 -0700, wrote:

I've read you should turn brass with a zero-rake tool to avoid its
being drawn into the work, so that's what I use on my home shop lathe.

Since we're told to grind in more rake for softer materials, it sounds
like turning is a peeling operation. Zero or less rake would seem to
crowd the material off.

So what's different about brass? And is Jon's lathe at work stiffer
and faster than what we're likely to have at home? I'd be pressing
pretty hard to hit those speeds.

I use a very small radius on a slightly negative rake tool. Seems to
act as a wiper and burnisher when there is a slight forward but
negative rake. Least for me..and I aint a machinist.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Not necessarily, although the lathe is not a heavy machine. They are
considered a light duty machine, but might be found in industry under
unusual circumstances. When you run light duty machines, you can still
take a serious cut, particularly in free machining material, but tool
geometry is very important. The lathe is not forgiving.

Interesting perspective. I use to own a 12 inch craftsman/atlas.
I now have a 11 inch rockwell which I consider far "heavier"
that the atlas and can also remove metal much faster.

With a zero rake HSS tool bit, I can easily take 200 thou dept of cut
in brass. Try that with some positive rake and things go sour
very quickly. I think a little positive rack gives a better
finish though (with a light cut).

It would be interesting to try using a "real" heavy duty machine.

chuck

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Not necessarily, although the lathe is not a heavy machine. They are
considered a light duty machine, but might be found in industry under
unusual circumstances. When you run light duty machines, you can
still
take a serious cut, particularly in free machining material, but tool
geometry is very important. The lathe is not forgiving.

Interesting perspective. I use to own a 12 inch craftsman/atlas.
I now have a 11 inch rockwell which I consider far "heavier"
that the atlas and can also remove metal much faster.

With a zero rake HSS tool bit, I can easily take 200 thou dept of cut
in brass. Try that with some positive rake and things go sour
very quickly. I think a little positive rack gives a better
finish though (with a light cut).

It would be interesting to try using a "real" heavy duty machine.

chuck

To put this in perspective, jump at the opportunity to run an Axelson lathe
should it present itself. Or a Mori-Seiki, Monarch, or Pratt &
Whitney---all of which are heavy duty industrial machines (there's more,
too). Then you'll understand that you have a light duty machine. One of
the benefits of such machines is you can run form tools, often large ones,
without chatter. Try that on light duty machines. The advantages are far
greater than that, but, for the home shop guy, may not be all that
important.

The Craftsman isn't considered an industrial machine and lacks almost
everything that would classify it as light duty. At the risk of insulting
anyone (which is not my intention), they're hardly a lathe. I started
machining on one and wouldn't be interested in owning one now, not even as a
gift. Once you're operated proper machine tools, it's pretty hard to step
back. You're constantly frustrated by the machine's limitations.

Harold

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

To put this in perspective, jump at the opportunity to run an Axelson lathe
should it present itself. Or a Mori-Seiki, Monarch, or Pratt &
Whitney---all of which are heavy duty industrial machines ...

Hmm. To do that, it would mean building an entire new house and
shop to install the industrial machines.

Is that really *worth* it?

:^)

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 18 Aug 2005 19:01:20 -0700, wrote:
I've read you should turn brass with a zero-rake tool to avoid its
being drawn into the work, so that's what I use on my home shop lathe.

Since we're told to grind in more rake for softer materials, it sounds
like turning is a peeling operation. Zero or less rake would seem to
crowd the material off.

So, do I go zero, or more? The above seem to contradict each other,
unless I've gone completely dense?

That said, a few test cuts with a zero rake round cutter are, as
suggested, producing very nice results. Dry.

So what's different about brass? And is Jon's lathe at work stiffer
and faster than what we're likely to have at home? I'd be pressing
pretty hard to hit those speeds.

Well, I've always thought of brass as 'chewy', which makes the rake of
zero make sense now that it's pointed out.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:40:41 -0700, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

Any handling concerns with a leaded metal? I'm not paranoid but I'd
hate to make something for someone else if it's a potential problem.

Not as far as I'm concerned, but the world may not agree. They're doing
just about anything and everything to eliminate lead from use, or so it
seems. I'm sure anyone can make a health issue from this
conversation----and they're likely right, but I can't help but wonder if
maybe we've gone too far. How many years will it take to wear away a
door knob? How much of that lost material is ingested? Dunno. I work
with leaded materials, but wash my hands before handling food, and I'm not a
finger licker kind of guy. YMMV.

I'm a shooter and reloader, so I probably handle...wow. 100 pounds of
lead per year, maybe? Probably more if I count the shotgun reloading.
So I'm comfortable with it, but will probably choose an "unleaded"
option for this work for someone else.

Sorry I'm not more help. Too many variables to be conclusive.

Well, if nothing else, you've showed me that I know more about what I
don't know than I knew I didn't know before, you know?

Chuckle! Yeah. It's a stretch for me to even talk about it. I've been off
the machines for a long time and have forgotten one hell of a lot. These
conversations are helping bring some of it back.

If nothing else, I've learned that the rake has to be either positive,
zero, or negative, and I should try to see which works best for me. The
zero rack rounded cutter is producing nice results on my test cuts so
I'll probably stay with that. Now for the hard part - the artistic part
of the job.

Hey Jim,

I would trade all four of my lathes (5"EncoCNC, 10" SB, 13"
Turnmaster, 15" Clausing-ColchesterCNC) for one manual 18" Dean Smith
& Grace, or Harold's Graziano (no matter what size). Either one of
those will do all that the "little" ones can do because they will
handle the higher RPM's, and the "feel" is fantastic!!

Remember the old ad.... "Try it! You'll like it!!"

Hmmmm....Maybe even for a TOS S50!

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


TOn 19 Aug 2005 11:54:04 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

To put this in perspective, jump at the opportunity to run an Axelson lathe
should it present itself. Or a Mori-Seiki, Monarch, or Pratt &
Whitney---all of which are heavy duty industrial machines ...

Hmm. To do that, it would mean building an entire new house and
shop to install the industrial machines.

Is that really *worth* it?

:^)

Jim

On 19 Aug 2005 16:21:50 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:

Not necessarily, although the lathe is not a heavy machine. They are
considered a light duty machine, but might be found in industry under
unusual circumstances. When you run light duty machines, you can still
take a serious cut, particularly in free machining material, but tool
geometry is very important. The lathe is not forgiving.

Interesting perspective. I use to own a 12 inch craftsman/atlas.
I now have a 11 inch rockwell which I consider far "heavier"
that the atlas and can also remove metal much faster.

With a zero rake HSS tool bit, I can easily take 200 thou dept of cut
in brass. Try that with some positive rake and things go sour
very quickly. I think a little positive rack gives a better
finish though (with a light cut).

It would be interesting to try using a "real" heavy duty machine.


Having used a wide variety of machines I know what Harold is talking
about. My first lathe was a Shop Task. Now with the right
modifications and proper tooling you can actually take some pretty
good cuts on a Shop Task lathe (now the mill is another matter
altogether). But the accuracy on heavy cuts isn't there like it is on
a heavy machine (in fact it's not there on the fine cuts either). My
friend just upgraded from a 12" Atlas cabinet model with all
attachments to a 14" Logan. He upgraded after getting fed up with the
light duty capability of the Atlas. It was nice little lathe but it
took forever to remove any real metal. I've been cutting some on the
Logan this week while helping him get it fixed up. It's a pretty good
lathe overall. It's got a few little quirks to me but once you got
used to them it's plenty capable of decent cuts in material. I was
taking 0.050" cuts in a 3"dia 4140 ring I was facing for a spacer and
it took them at 0.005" feed with out any complaint from the machine.
Now the VFD was showing over name plate rating of the motor to do
this. I attribute this mostly to the fact that the vari belt drive
takes over half the motors horsepower and wastes it to heat. Also the
feed train isn't as refined as I'd like and makes a fair amount of
noise.

On the other hand it is no where near as sweet a machine to run as
my 12" Pratt and Whitney. Even as worn out as my Pratt is and despite
the fact that someone dumped it on it's face before I got it I still
say that it's one of the sweetest little machines I've ever run. Of
course when I say little I mean in capacity which is a actual swing of
14"and 30" between centers. It weighs in several hundred pounds
heavier than my friends Logan. But it's the quietest lathe I've ever
run with some of the most beautifully machined and ground parts in it
I've ever seen.


Now for serious metal removal I've run some serious machines. I'm
talking 16x76 American Pacemaker, 20 x 96 American Pacemaker, 27x120"
LeBlonde Heavy duty to name a few. In fact I consider the 15x54" Regal
LeBlonde I ran at the same shop to be a little on the light side for a
industrial machine. Especially in the gear head which definitely does
not have heavy enough gears for serious metal removal.

I've removed 0.250" cut (0.500" removed from the diameter) on a 8"
piece of 4140 at 0.013" feed and around 400-500 rpm with the proper
tool geometry. I think I took even larger cuts a few other times as
well but that's the one I remember. The only problem with cuts like
these is that it can get to be impossible to get close enough to the
lathe to shut it down at the end of the cut. Big heavy blue chips
curled like a 9 where being thrown in a 10' radius of the cutting
tool. This was with the 16x76 American Pacemaker (which could actually
swing 18" over the ways).

Pacemakers are in the heavy duty class of lathe but I don't think
they're as refined as some other models. But big on rigidity and
power. I've never run a Monarch but from what I've seen they're
slightly less in the power and rigidity department but are a more
refined lathe overall.




Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Pacemakers are in the heavy duty class of lathe but I don't think
they're as refined as some other models. But big on rigidity and
power. I've never run a Monarch but from what I've seen they're
slightly less in the power and rigidity department but are a more
refined lathe overall.

Don't allow the general nice design and light duty appearance of the Monarch
fool you. I've spent considerable time on them, including an EE that was
about a year old when I was assigned to it. They are very robust, most
likely because of careful engineering, more so than tonnage, like the
Axelson. They have what appears to be small ways, but very heavy beds.
Check out an EE when it's convenient. Tiny ways, but a 3,500 pound 12"
lathe! I consider Monarch to be amongst the finest of lathes, better
than the P&W, which is an exceptional machine. Of all lathes I've ever
run, Monarch is the easiest, with LeBlond likely one of the more clumsy, and
I've run several of them, including a 48" sliding gap bed model.. Nice
machines, just somewhat "left handed" for me.

Harold

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

To put this in perspective, jump at the opportunity to run an Axelson
lathe
should it present itself. Or a Mori-Seiki, Monarch, or Pratt &
Whitney---all of which are heavy duty industrial machines ...

Hmm. To do that, it would mean building an entire new house and
shop to install the industrial machines.

Is that really *worth* it?

:^)

Jim

Yep! It is!

Harold

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

Is that really *worth* it?

:^)

Yep! It is!

Glad to hear it Harold - I was beginning to worry about
you, I could tell by your tone lately that your not sure
there's a house at the end of the tunnel!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:11:07 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
.. .
snip-----

Pacemakers are in the heavy duty class of lathe but I don't think
they're as refined as some other models. But big on rigidity and
power. I've never run a Monarch but from what I've seen they're
slightly less in the power and rigidity department but are a more
refined lathe overall.

Don't allow the general nice design and light duty appearance of the Monarch
fool you. I've spent considerable time on them, including an EE that was
about a year old when I was assigned to it. They are very robust, most
likely because of careful engineering, more so than tonnage, like the
Axelson. They have what appears to be small ways, but very heavy beds.
Check out an EE when it's convenient. Tiny ways, but a 3,500 pound 12"
lathe! I consider Monarch to be amongst the finest of lathes, better
than the P&W, which is an exceptional machine. Of all lathes I've ever
run, Monarch is the easiest, with LeBlond likely one of the more clumsy, and
I've run several of them, including a 48" sliding gap bed model.. Nice
machines, just somewhat "left handed" for me.

I've seen a EE and almost got one instead of my P&W. The main thing
that stopped me was that I was really needing a little more swing on a
small lathe for some of my work. The P&W had me a little worried that
it would be to small but it's proven itself to be just right for what
I needed.

Once I get my finances caught back up I'm going to be looking for a
replacement for my Sidney. A Monarch is one of my top choices for the
replacement if I can find one. My problem is that I need a minimum of
8' centers but I'm not sure I've got room for a 10' machine. I've
noticed that 8' lathes are on the rare side anymore.

As for LeBlonde well I can't say that I wouldn't take one in the
right condition, size, and price but they're one of the lower
contenders in my book. I've run them enough to be comfortable with
them but I agree that the feel just isn't there.

Of course all of this is wishful thinking at the moment. I've had to
many get this now or it's gone good deals or must have to complete
this project type expenses come up this year for me to consider a new
lathe at the moment. Hopefully next year I'll be in a better position
to upgrade. The Sidney isn't a bad lathe but it's not a heavy duty
lathe by any stretch of the imagination. That's my only real problem
with it. There are some jobs that come in where I need to be able to
move metal and move it fast for them to be profitable and until I
upgrade I'm not able to do that on larger items.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

Is that really *worth* it?

:^)

Yep! It is!

Glad to hear it Harold - I was beginning to worry about
you, I could tell by your tone lately that your not sure
there's a house at the end of the tunnel!

Jim


It's a tough project for me, mostly because of my age and arthritis, but I
can't imagine not doing it, even if I never get to use it. While it would
have been sort of nice to have others come in and get it done, we'd have
ended up with a lot less money in our pockets, and, quite frankly, would
have been denied the degree of satisfaction and pride we have by having done
it "ourselves". We've done everything aside from excavate and the
footing on both the shop and house. Oh, yeah, and the concrete work. No
way could I do that.

I'm still not quite sure there's a house at the end of the tunnel, though.
g
Nice observation, Jim.

Harold

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

I'm still not quite sure there's a house at the end of the tunnel, though.
g
Nice observation, Jim.

Those two things are on my "boy I sure wish I could see jpgs" list.

1) your construction project and

2) Fitch's construction project.

I guess I still owe you some jpgs of the outside of
our pile-O-lumber too, eh?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

I'm still not quite sure there's a house at the end of the tunnel,
though.
g
Nice observation, Jim.

Those two things are on my "boy I sure wish I could see jpgs" list.

1) your construction project and

2) Fitch's construction project.

I guess I still owe you some jpgs of the outside of
our pile-O-lumber too, eh?

Jim

Yep, you do! I'd enjoy seeing it.

Want me to send some by snail mail? Maybe on a floppy, or a CD? Contact me
on the side with the proper address if you'd like to see it. I've taken
hundreds, although we didn't get a digital camera until two years ago or so.
The early part of the project is all on film. Mind you, the place isn't an
architect's concept of a beautiful house and shop. We designed it ourselves,
and it's specific to our needs. I can't help but think that anyone that
sees the shop would say it's a dandy. We're quite proud of the entire
project. Unlike the castle, we'll finish this one (assuming it doesn't
finish us first).

Harold