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Another Craftsman tool rant
Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because
they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. Jerks. |
Jim Stewart" wrote in message
... | Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because | they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and | buggering the heads. | | I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday | and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers | so there would be no excuses. I've bought the | screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and | found that they last a long time. Well, I get to | Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice | crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. | | But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver | that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. | | Jerks. Jerks, was that _your_ autosig? :) Check carefully the brands sold at Sears. Sears brand is the standard imported crap, while Craftsman has become standard imported, but only slightly better. I quit shopping at Sears a long time ago for tools. I can go to my local tool store or HF and buy Pittsburgh (sp?) or CK tools which are decent for the money. I wanted to waste my money, Sears would surely be the place to go. They seem to feel like HF is their direct competitor! |
"carl mciver" wrote in message nk.net... Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... | Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because | they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and | buggering the heads. | | But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver | that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. | go to my local tool store or HF and buy Pittsburgh (sp?) or CK tools which are decent for the money. I wanted to waste my money, Sears would surely be the place to go. They seem to feel like HF is their direct competitor! You mean HF is NOT their direct competitor ???? There is a reason their tools (especially the power stuff) has been called "crapsman" for a long time. Do a search on "Craftsman Routers" and see what kind of comments you find !! ;-) mikey |
"Mike Fields" wrote in message ... "carl mciver" wrote in message nk.net... Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... | Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because | they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and | buggering the heads. | | But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver | that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. | go to my local tool store or HF and buy Pittsburgh (sp?) or CK tools which are decent for the money. I wanted to waste my money, Sears would surely be the place to go. They seem to feel like HF is their direct competitor! You mean HF is NOT their direct competitor ???? There is a reason their tools (especially the power stuff) has been called "crapsman" for a long time. Do a search on "Craftsman Routers" and see what kind of comments you find !! ;-) mikey Their power tools are junk, but are the Pittsburgh wrenches and sockets really comparable to Craftsman? For a lot of tools and products I do agree that what you get at Sears or Home Depot, especially from no name imported brands, has been HF quality or less for a long time. Only difference is you pay retail prices for it. |
Those Blue/Clear handled tools are Companion brand. Basically import
crap sold at Sears. I use the Black handled ergo grip drivers a LOT and they are worth the money, I did manage to break one but it wasn't being used as a screwdriver at the time..... Most of the current Craftsman line is now Stanley tool made. With some being S&K. Air tools are imports from the same outfit that makes 90 percent of Snap-On air tools. Even CP and IR are over 90 percent imports now, they just assemble some tools in Carolina. "Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. Jerks. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Jim Stewart wrote:
Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. Jerks. I think you would be better off with the screw driver handles that hold hex inserts. Then buy a box of inserts. Wear them out (they are tough) and just buy some inserts. Philips are common to the building trades and are packaged in various volumes. Dry wall screws are just some uses... Just my opinion based on various fractured screw driver heads - seems to be a powered composite to make the Philips... hum. Bad process maybe. I have used the trade type for some time now. Put them in screw guns and even battery drills. Martin -- Martin Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
lionslair at consolidated dot net wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote: Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. Jerks. I think you would be better off with the screw driver handles that hold hex inserts. Then buy a box of inserts. Wear them out (they are tough) and just buy some inserts. Your point is well taken and I use inserts alot at home. The problem is that I'm working with 18-19 year old kids and they don't see the big picture. We use #1 tips to assemble one product with power screwdrivers. We use #2 screws on another product that has to be assembled with hand screwdrivers. If I give them #2 inserts, they will put them in the power screwdrivers and I'll have more problems. I know it's a stupid reason, but I gotta work with what I've got. Philips are common to the building trades and are packaged in various volumes. Dry wall screws are just some uses... Just my opinion based on various fractured screw driver heads - seems to be a powered composite to make the Philips... hum. Bad process maybe. I have used the trade type for some time now. Put them in screw guns and even battery drills. Martin |
Your point is well taken and I use inserts alot at home. The problem is that I'm working with 18-19 year old kids and they don't see the big picture. We use #1 tips to assemble one product with power screwdrivers. We use #2 screws on another product that has to be assembled with hand screwdrivers. If I give them #2 inserts, they will put them in the power screwdrivers and I'll have more problems. I know it's a stupid reason, but I gotta work with what I've got. Not true. Hire someone who has a clue. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for, wouldn't it also be true in hiring employees, not just tooling? Just my opinion, and possible rant. Lane |
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
... The problem is that I'm working with 18-19 year old kids and they don't see the big picture. Excuse me for saying so, but it sounds like you have more of an instructional problem (and perhaps, a disciplinary one also) than a tooling problem. I'd rather opt to teach the children to do the job correctly, than trick them into doing it correctly by limiting their tooling choices. Remember: at some point, they will be on their own and having to make their own decisions. Guide them now and rest assured that they will make the right choices later on. On the other hand, if they're only doing the job correctly now because of your artificial constraints, what will happen once they no longer have you imposing those constraints upon them? Regards, Michael |
DeepDiver wrote:
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... The problem is that I'm working with 18-19 year old kids and they don't see the big picture. Excuse me for saying so, but it sounds like you have more of an instructional problem (and perhaps, a disciplinary one also) than a tooling problem. I'd rather opt to teach the children to do the job correctly, than trick them into doing it correctly by limiting their tooling choices. Remember: at some point, they will be on their own and having to make their own decisions. Guide them now and rest assured that they will make the right choices later on. On the other hand, if they're only doing the job correctly now because of your artificial constraints, what will happen once they no longer have you imposing those constraints upon them? Believe me, I'm trying. But I can't be watching them every minute and I've got too much invested in them to let them go. They are good kids. They keep the stockroom in order and they don't steal from me or argue with me. I'm teaching them and they are learning. They are the best I've found so far and they know that the job beats mucking out the fat fryer at Burger King. |
They are good kids. They keep the
stockroom in order and they don't steal from me or argue with me. I'm teaching them and they are learning. They are the best I've found so far and they know that the job beats mucking out the fat fryer at Burger King. Nobody starts out knowing it all. You sound like you have some potentially good material there to mold and work with. In today's world, that is not the norm. Many of today's young people are just eaten up with apathy ........... the "I don't give a ****" approach. And they mean it! Steve |
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
... DeepDiver wrote: "Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... The problem is that I'm working with 18-19 year old kids and they don't see the big picture. Excuse me for saying so, but it sounds like you have more of an instructional problem (and perhaps, a disciplinary one also) than a tooling problem. I'd rather opt to teach the children to do the job correctly, than trick them into doing it correctly by limiting their tooling choices. Remember: at some point, they will be on their own and having to make their own decisions. Guide them now and rest assured that they will make the right choices later on. On the other hand, if they're only doing the job correctly now because of your artificial constraints, what will happen once they no longer have you imposing those constraints upon them? Believe me, I'm trying. But I can't be watching them every minute and I've got too much invested in them to let them go. When I first read you post, I thought you were talking about your own children, not employees. That said, the priciples of mentoring and managing are the same: teach, reward, dicipline, and punish. Tell them how you want it done, period: no exceptions. For those who do it right, reward them with praise, a raise, and/or a bonus (doesn't have to be cash: it could be a hour off early on Friday, your treating them to lunch, movie tickets, etc.). For those who do it wrong, discipline with some one-on-one performance reviews. If they still don't learn, then apply punishment (e.g., deduct the cost of their damage from their paycheck). If ultimately, an employee is unwilling to do it the right way, then I'd fire him because there is a bigger problem involved than just your buggered screws. Simply lay down the rules, explain the consequences, and then stick to your guns. (This, btw, is perhaps the greatest failing of parents and employers alike: they either don't make the rules and consequences clear and well-defined, or they fail to enforce them.) Your employees, like children, will be happy knowing exactly what is expected of them in their jobs, you will have your management duties clearly outlined so you'll never have to wonder how to handle a problem situation, and you will ultimately benefit from a well-run shop. And remember: always praise in public, and reprimand in private! Regards, Michael |
In article ,
"Steve W." wrote: Those Blue/Clear handled tools are Companion brand. Basically import crap sold at Sears. I use the Black handled ergo grip drivers a LOT and they are worth the money, I did manage to break one but it wasn't being used as a screwdriver at the time..... Maybe some Companion stuff is Blue/Clear, but so is Craftsman. I have a 'sand cast looking tip' #2 Blue/Clear Phillips right here on my desk... a number 41295, and plainly marked 'Made In USA' right on it. It's a warranty replacement, and I haven't actually used it yet. However, after reading this thread, tried it on for fit in a couple of screws close at hand... fit feels a lot better than it looks, to be honest. At least they seem to be plating their screwdrivers again. Erik |
On Wed, 11 May 2005 14:23:48 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote: snip I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. snip This seems to be a worldwide problem for all products. Value analysis is running amok. Sears lost their once dominant retailing position because of the continual slow slide in their product quality in tools, paint and clothing. The same thing is true of autos made by General Motors and Ford. In the short term, a little additional profit may be made by imperceptible cuts in quality, service and innovation, but in the long term, it is a sure-fire receipt for disaster for the company and the long-term employees. For the short-term company executives and their hedge-fund cohorts it is a quick buck, and the devil take the hindmost. |
In article ,
"Steve W." wrote: Air tools are imports from the same outfit that makes 90 percent of Snap-On air tools. Huh? Snap-On makes their own air tools and are not currently vending out to anyone. Blue Point branded is a different story, but then, Blue Point is not Snap-On. |
In article , DeepDiver says...
And remember: always praise in public, and reprimand in private! Amazing how many supervisors simply can *not* get that one right! Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
On 12 May 2005 09:03:45 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , DeepDiver says... And remember: always praise in public, and reprimand in private! Amazing how many supervisors simply can *not* get that one right! Yup. That's something a very early boss of mine taught me - great guy. Told me "If your boss doesn't do that, find a better boss". This is the same guy whose idea of a job interview was to hand me a part and a micrometer, and say "measure this". I held it right, used the slip-clutch to tighten it, and gave him the answer down to tenths. "OK, great. I start you out at (number), next week that'll either double or I'll be looking for someone else." Later, he set my hourly wage to be double my grade point average. Theory being, I could work as much as I wanted, but if my grades started to suffer, my pay would reflect that. As this was the '80s, and I was a college student, it paid pretty damn good to keep my grades up, so I did. The right kind of motivation for the right reasons, there. Didn't hurt that we were building airplane components, so it was interesting work. Dave Hinz |
On Wed, 11 May 2005 22:13:17 -0700, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote: Your point is well taken and I use inserts alot at home. The problem is that I'm working with 18-19 year old kids and they don't see the big picture. We use #1 tips to assemble one product with power screwdrivers. We use #2 screws on another product that has to be assembled with hand screwdrivers. If I give them #2 inserts, they will put them in the power screwdrivers and I'll have more problems. I know it's a stupid reason, but I gotta work with what I've got. Not true. Hire someone who has a clue. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for, wouldn't it also be true in hiring employees, not just tooling? Just my opinion, and possible rant. Lane Based on my experience in manufacturing..at that age..you are suggesting he hire illegal aliens, not the average mind numbed American kid. Gunner Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli |
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:00:07 GMT, the renowned "DeepDiver"
wrote: "Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... When I first read you post, I thought you were talking about your own children, not employees. That said, the priciples of mentoring and managing are the same: teach, reward, dicipline, and punish. Tell them how you want it done, period: no exceptions. For those who do it right, reward them with praise, a raise, and/or a bonus (doesn't have to be cash: it could be a hour off early on Friday, your treating them to lunch, movie tickets, etc.). For those who do it wrong, discipline with some one-on-one performance reviews. If they still don't learn, then apply punishment (e.g., deduct the cost of their damage from their paycheck). If ultimately, an employee is unwilling to do it the right way, then I'd fire him because there is a bigger problem involved than just your buggered screws. Simply lay down the rules, explain the consequences, and then stick to your guns. (This, btw, is perhaps the greatest failing of parents and employers alike: they either don't make the rules and consequences clear and well-defined, or they fail to enforce them.) Your employees, like children, will be happy knowing exactly what is expected of them in their jobs, you will have your management duties clearly outlined so you'll never have to wonder how to handle a problem situation, and you will ultimately benefit from a well-run shop. And remember: always praise in public, and reprimand in private! Regards, Michael And if you're in a country where employees have strong rights (UK, Europe, Canada, Israel, etc.) keep written records of the reprimands and be careful that the praise is factual and deserved. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
Sorry to disagree, but if you don't want to pay the higher price for the
good stuff then how can you fault them for offering the cheap stuff? Same arguement for HF and Chinese lathes and stuff. They are filling a market need. People seem to be willing to accept the inferior stuff because it's got the right price on it. "Jim Stewart" wrote in message ... Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. Jerks. #! rnews 1914 Xref: xyzzy comp.sys.mac.system:524105 Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system Path: xyzzy!nntp From: James Glidewell Subject: Partitions? In-Reply-To: X-Nntp-Posting-Host: minky.sdc.cs.boeing.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Message-ID: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4.4) Gecko/20050318 Red Hat/1.4.4-1.3.5 Sender: (Boeing NNTP News Access) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: The Boeing Company X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:59:52 GMT nospam wrote: In article , David Magda wrote: I would think that putting swap files on a separate disk would help things. Less disk contention and all that. on an entirely seperate harddrive it may have a beneficial effect because you can have simultaneous read/write to different drives. But only if you actually swap. And if you do, the performance penalty is so great compared to not swapping that any difference would be almost impossible to discern. If you are seeing significant "spinning beach ball" time, then going to a separate swap drive might reduce the amount of time you spend staring at the beach ball by 10% or so. But increasing the memory can come close to eliminating it completely (and/or reducing the frequency). Sometimes, that isn't an option, due to budget or hardware, but the number of cases where a swap drive is a better solution than memory is pretty darned small. putting the swap on a second partition of the *same* drive is stupid. In a word, yes. |
"Gunner" wrote in message Not true. Hire someone who has a clue. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for, wouldn't it also be true in hiring employees, not just tooling? Just my opinion, and possible rant. Lane Based on my experience in manufacturing..at that age..you are suggesting he hire illegal aliens, not the average mind numbed American kid. Gunner Illegal aliens? Where did that come from? I wasn't even close to suggesting that. Lane |
In article ,
Ignoramus18353 wrote: Snap-On makes their own air tools and are not currently vending out to anyone. I recently sold a used Snap-On pneumatic motor that was made by Ingersoll Rand. Exactly what type of "air tool" is this pneumatic motor, and how old is it? |
Excellent discussion and I agree with each point.
Too bad that I have never had a single boss that has ever done everything that you have discussed...and I have had many bosses. A good boss is as hard to find as a good woman is. Being a good boss is even harder. In my opinion if one faithfully and completely implements what Michael has covered, you will have employees that will follow your lead through hell. TMT |
In article ,
Jim Stewart wrote: DeepDiver wrote: [ ... ] Remember: at some point, they will be on their own and having to make their own decisions. Guide them now and rest assured that they will make the right choices later on. On the other hand, if they're only doing the job correctly now because of your artificial constraints, what will happen once they no longer have you imposing those constraints upon them? Believe me, I'm trying. But I can't be watching them every minute and I've got too much invested in them to let them go. They are good kids. They keep the stockroom in order and they don't steal from me or argue with me. I'm teaching them and they are learning. They are the best I've found so far and they know that the job beats mucking out the fat fryer at Burger King. So -- take the time to *show* them how to tell by feel whether it is the right size screwdriver or not. First -- explain to them that usually, with Phillips, the right size screwdriver *looks* too big. Then show them how the right and wrong screwdrivers *feel* in the screw head. There is a difference. You know it. Can you explain it to them so they will? Next -- *show* them the problems which arise from using the wrong size screwdriver. The rounded out sockets -- the worn tips which are more likely to inflict the same damage on the next screw head. And -- when one of them screws up -- give them the task of fixing it. I know that at that age, *I* could have benefited from being shown how to tell. And back then, I kept coming up with Reed & Prince screws and tips to make things more complex. (Of course, now, you can hit the offset Phillips, the Tri-wings, the secure variants of Allen and Torx, and lord only knows what else. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
On Thu, 12 May 2005 13:10:40 -0700, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message Not true. Hire someone who has a clue. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for, wouldn't it also be true in hiring employees, not just tooling? Just my opinion, and possible rant. Lane Based on my experience in manufacturing..at that age..you are suggesting he hire illegal aliens, not the average mind numbed American kid. Gunner Illegal aliens? Where did that come from? I wasn't even close to suggesting that. Lane Perhaps I didnt make myself clear. Its been my experience that illegal aliens as a group, are harder working, less willing to bitch, whimper and tend to be smarter than most modern kids Gunner "Veterans, and anyone sensible, take cover when there's incoming. A cloud of testosterone makes a **** poor flack shield." Offbreed |
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 May 2005 13:10:40 -0700, "Lane" lane (no spam) at copperaccents dot com wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message Not true. Hire someone who has a clue. Isn't it true that you get what you pay for, wouldn't it also be true in hiring employees, not just tooling? Just my opinion, and possible rant. Lane Based on my experience in manufacturing..at that age..you are suggesting he hire illegal aliens, not the average mind numbed American kid. Gunner Illegal aliens? Where did that come from? I wasn't even close to suggesting that. Lane Perhaps I didnt make myself clear. Its been my experience that illegal aliens as a group, are harder working, less willing to bitch, whimper and tend to be smarter than most modern kids That's not too difficult! |
"lionslair at consolidated dot net" "lionslair at consolidated dot net" wrote in message ... Jim Stewart wrote: Friday I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. I figured I'd swing by swing by Sears on Saturday and get another handfull of #2 philips screwdrivers so there would be no excuses. I've bought the screwdrivers with blue/clear handles for years and found that they last a long time. Well, I get to Sears and look at them and what used to be a nice crisp tip now looks like a poor sand casting. But not to worry, Craftsman now has a "Pro" screwdriver that has a nice crisp tip and costs $3 more. Jerks. I think you would be better off with the screw driver handles that hold hex inserts. Then buy a box of inserts. Wear them out (they are tough) and just buy some inserts. Philips are common to the building trades and are packaged in various volumes. Dry wall screws are just some uses... Just my opinion based on various fractured screw driver heads - seems to be a powered composite to make the Philips... hum. Bad process maybe. I have had Klein Philips heads last for years. Insert type screwdrivers are OK but definitely wouldn't be my first choice due to the thicker barrel, etc. Klein is quite popular in the electrical trade. http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/85075.html |
snip
I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. ============= Are you sure they were Phillips and not Posidrive screws? While the term "Phillips" is still widely used, Posis are generally used in a production environment. Major change is the tip of the Posidrive is "dubbed" off. A real Phillips driver will tend to strip a posi screw head because it can't seat deep enough. Look to see if there is an "X" across the cruciform of the "Phillips" if there is you have posi screws and need posi drivers. You may also want to evaluate using some of the newer driver styles. The fasteners cost slightly more, but stripping and camouts are largely eliminated. Also provides some tamper protection. GmcD GmcD |
F. George McDuffee wrote:
snip I laid into the kids doing assembly because they kept using #1 philips drivers on #2 screws and buggering the heads. ============= Are you sure they were Phillips and not Posidrive screws? While the term "Phillips" is still widely used, Posis are generally used in a production environment. Major change is the tip of the Posidrive is "dubbed" off. A real Phillips driver will tend to strip a posi screw head because it can't seat deep enough. Look to see if there is an "X" across the cruciform of the "Phillips" if there is you have posi screws and need posi drivers. You may also want to evaluate using some of the newer driver styles. The fasteners cost slightly more, but stripping and camouts are largely eliminated. Also provides some tamper protection. GmcD GmcD Only "dubbed off" end I have seen were only Phillips, the pointier ones were Reed Prince. So you are saying Posi Drive are shorter? George V. |
snip
============= Are you sure they were Phillips and not Posidrive screws? Only "dubbed off" end I have seen were only Phillips, the pointier ones were Reed Prince. So you are saying Posi Drive are shorter? George V. ============== This is not a unique problem and is far more frequent in assembly operations than it should be. Thre are three common cruciform drives in common use. Reed & Prince with very thin "wings" and a long sharp point -- commonly used in the US only on golf club face inserts. Phillips with slightly thicker wings and a blunter point that still is sharp although may be slightly rounded. Sides of the wings tend to be slightly tapered increasing tendency to cam out. Generally no marks on top of screw other than cruciform. Posidrive with thick wings, blunt point that is dubbed off more or less square on end. Top of screw will generally have light "x" between the cruciform drive slots. sides of cruciform are parallel and have no tendency to cam out. see http://www.justbrits.com/pozi/pozidriv.html Given the problems you seem to be having, you may wish to consider another head/driver style such as Robertson/Skrulox. see http://www.robertsonscrew.com/ If you have more than minimal parts volume you can most likely realize significant savings in scrap/rework and labor by contacting a reputable fastener distributor. They can evaluate your needs and provide the lowest overall cost fasteners. You may even save on worksman comp by eliminating stab and repetative stress [carpel tunnel] injuries. Hope this helps. GmcD |
F. George McDuffee wrote:
snip ============= Are you sure they were Phillips and not Posidrive screws? Only "dubbed off" end I have seen were only Phillips, the pointier ones were Reed Prince. So you are saying Posi Drive are shorter? George V. ============== This is not a unique problem and is far more frequent in assembly operations than it should be. Thre are three common cruciform drives in common use. Reed & Prince with very thin "wings" and a long sharp point -- commonly used in the US only on golf club face inserts. Phillips with slightly thicker wings and a blunter point that still is sharp although may be slightly rounded. Sides of the wings tend to be slightly tapered increasing tendency to cam out. Generally no marks on top of screw other than cruciform. Posidrive with thick wings, blunt point that is dubbed off more or less square on end. Top of screw will generally have light "x" between the cruciform drive slots. sides of cruciform are parallel and have no tendency to cam out. see http://www.justbrits.com/pozi/pozidriv.html Given the problems you seem to be having, you may wish to consider another head/driver style such as Robertson/Skrulox. see http://www.robertsonscrew.com/ If you have more than minimal parts volume you can most likely realize significant savings in scrap/rework and labor by contacting a reputable fastener distributor. They can evaluate your needs and provide the lowest overall cost fasteners. You may even save on worksman comp by eliminating stab and repetative stress [carpel tunnel] injuries. Hope this helps. GmcD Personally I don't have any problem with cross point drivers. The OP seems to be having the problem with the "kids" not knowing the difference though. The real confusion in the US seems to come from the fact that many manufactureres, Craftsman as well but not lately, include RP drivers in their common driver sets. And to the common layman, a cross point driver is always a Phillips. My solutio (not being a golfer) is to "lose" any RP drivers that find their way into my toolbox or near vicinity. Works for me. George V. |
On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:31:45 -0700, F George McDuffee wrote:
Reed & Prince with very thin "wings" and a long sharp point -- commonly used in the US only on golf club face inserts. Ahhh, _that_ explains why my grandfather's tools included one of these. Thank you, I'd been wondering. |
R&P are also common on older (WW-II vintage) military aircraft.
-- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) "F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... snip Reed & Prince with very thin "wings" and a long sharp point -- commonly used in the US only on golf club face inserts. |
In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:31:45 -0700, F George McDuffee wrote: Reed & Prince with very thin "wings" and a long sharp point -- commonly used in the US only on golf club face inserts. Ahhh, _that_ explains why my grandfather's tools included one of these. Thank you, I'd been wondering. RP is (was?) widely used on furniture as well, at least when furniture was made in the US. |
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