My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around 4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Grant,
The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise, and crawling a skid steer
that far in reverse is liable to kill someone else. Is there no
way to dovetail the back end of the rig and get down to some
conventional triangle shaped ramps?


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the
back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built
like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross
pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in
figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around
4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform
loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel
he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I
haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or
because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search
string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi
of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16")
with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around 4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

I bought a set of ramps for my Bobcat, which were used by the previous owner
to load a Bobcat into a dump truck. I haven't tried them yet and I'm not
sure how well they will really work or how scary the ride will be! I think
they are 11' long. I can take some measurements next time I am in my yard.

According to my cheat book for 'C' section channels:
Size Web Section Modulus
3"x6# .36" 1.38
3"x5# .26 1.24
3"x4.1# .17" 1.10
4"x7.25# .32 2.29
4"x5.4# .18 1.93
----------------------------
6"x8.2# .20 4.38
8"x11.5# .22" 8.14

Stength is proportional to section modulus so take whatever tables you
have and work from there. Generally, 3" is 1/3rd as strong as 6" and
1/5th as strong as 8". 4" is half as strong as 6" and 1/4th as strong as
8" YMMV.

Cheers.


Grant Erwin wrote:
My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around 4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Grant Erwin wrote:
My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around 4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


For what it is worth, when I worked at Boeing I asked an engineer there
basically the same question. I was building ramps for my brothers trailer. I
used 3" channel because he told me that it was sufficient for up to 6000
pounds. Hopefully this goes along with the information you're getting. Mine
was spanning approx 6 feet.

Lane

I've added another column for the Beam Resisting Moment for
A36 steel to the table below. You need to specify the
loading conditions and the beam's supports to calculate the
actual bending moment in service. You also need to consider
the beam's unsupported length to determine lateral
stability.

Ned Simmons

In article AtE9e.9591$yq6.3716
@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net,
says...
According to my cheat book for 'C' section channels:
Size Web Section Modulus Beam Resisting Moment (kip-ft)
3"x6# .36" 1.38 3
3"x5# .26 1.24 2
3"x4.1# .17" 1.10 2
4"x7.25# .32 2.29 4
4"x5.4# .18 1.93 4
----------------------------
6"x8.2# .20 4.38 8
8"x11.5# .22" 8.14 15

Stength is proportional to section modulus so take whatever tables you
have and work from there. Generally, 3" is 1/3rd as strong as 6" and
1/5th as strong as 8". 4" is half as strong as 6" and 1/4th as strong as
8" YMMV.

Cheers.


Grant Erwin wrote:
My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around 4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

What do you mean by "The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise"?

Do you mean if I build this I won't be able to lift it? Or it will be
somehow difficult to build? Or I won't be able to buy steel that long?
Or what?

GWE

DanG wrote:
Grant,
The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise, and crawling a skid steer
that far in reverse is liable to kill someone else. Is there no
way to dovetail the back end of the rig and get down to some
conventional triangle shaped ramps?


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the
back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built
like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross
pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in
figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around
4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform
loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel
he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I
haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or
because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search
string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi
of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16")
with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

I take it to mean that 8' is a LONG span for 3" material. One way to
look at things is to take the ratio of the length divided by the channel
depth. In this case it would be 32:1 That is pretty skinny and flexible.

Grant Erwin wrote:

What do you mean by "The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise"?

Do you mean if I build this I won't be able to lift it? Or it will be
somehow difficult to build? Or I won't be able to buy steel that long?
Or what?

GWE

DanG wrote:

Grant,
The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise, and crawling a skid steer
that far in reverse is liable to kill someone else. Is there no way
to dovetail the back end of the rig and get down to some conventional
triangle shaped ramps?


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around 4000
pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in ksi of 4"
and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately 3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Thankyou Roy, that is what I meant. It will end up so heavy it
will be a bear to load and/or be so flexible that it will be
scary.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...
I take it to mean that 8' is a LONG span for 3" material. One way
to look at things is to take the ratio of the length divided by
the channel depth. In this case it would be 32:1 That is pretty
skinny and flexible.

Grant Erwin wrote:

What do you mean by "The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise"?

Do you mean if I build this I won't be able to lift it? Or it
will be
somehow difficult to build? Or I won't be able to buy steel
that long?
Or what?

GWE

DanG wrote:

Grant,
The 8' is gonna kill you dimension wise, and crawling a skid
steer that far in reverse is liable to kill someone else. Is
there no way to dovetail the back end of the rig and get down
to some conventional triangle shaped ramps?


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

My buddy wants to build some ramps to load a skid steer onto
the back
of a flatbed. He plans to build 2 ramps, each of which is
built like a
ladder. The side rails will be steel channel and the cross
pieces will
be steel angle, all hot rolled, welded. He has asked my help
in figuring
how light he can build it. I figure his Bobcat weighs around
4000 pounds.
I own a Ryerson Steel data book which has allowable uniform
loads for
steel channels but it doesn't go down to the 4" or 3" channel
he's
considering. I can't find any useful specs online, not
because I haven't
googled, but because I get way too much wrong information or
because I
can't think of the smart way to limit or phrase the search
string.

In particular, I want to know the allowable uniform load in
ksi of 4" and
3" channel, each the lightest channel made (approximately
3/16") with a
span of eight feet.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

The loading on this type of ramp is not uniform. It is a moving
concentrated load. Whole different [design] ballgame.
I have a pair made from 3" channel that were later beefed up with 4"
welded over them. Takes two men and a large boy to move them.G
Bugs

Bugs wrote:
The loading on this type of ramp is not uniform. It is a moving
concentrated load. Whole different [design] ballgame.

Not really. You start out figuring the uniform load (or looking it up
in a table), then you divide your max allowable load by 2 to translate
it to the worst case (load concentrated midspan) then you add your
fudge factor for dynamic loading (i.e. moving). The tables all list
uniform load, that's why I asked for that spec. Your statement is
completely correct, of course. - GWE

Problem is that skid steers have really quirky loading factors when you
are trying to go down a ramp in tight quarters. In this case, you would
need to figure the full load on the downward axle, the majority of that
load on one side when you correct a bit, a bit momentum hit when you try
and stop coming down the ramp, and then some factor of safety.

As for weight, if you used 4" with 2"x 3/16"x12" crosspieces, it's
still going to weigh around 12 pounds per foot or 100 pounds MINIMUM for
an 8' section.

best thing to do is see what some of the other ramps are like. This
whole calculation is so dependent on the situation that trial pieces
will be necessary to get the best balance between weight and strength.



Grant Erwin wrote:
Bugs wrote:

The loading on this type of ramp is not uniform. It is a moving
concentrated load. Whole different [design] ballgame.


Not really. You start out figuring the uniform load (or looking it up
in a table), then you divide your max allowable load by 2 to translate
it to the worst case (load concentrated midspan) then you add your
fudge factor for dynamic loading (i.e. moving). The tables all list
uniform load, that's why I asked for that spec. Your statement is
completely correct, of course. - GWE

Really good and sensible advice, Roy. I already told homey I wanted nothing
to do with building his ramps out of 3" channel. I also advised him to
forget building them 8' long, to make them 11' long. - GWE

RoyJ wrote:

Problem is that skid steers have really quirky loading factors when you
are trying to go down a ramp in tight quarters. In this case, you would
need to figure the full load on the downward axle, the majority of that
load on one side when you correct a bit, a bit momentum hit when you try
and stop coming down the ramp, and then some factor of safety.

As for weight, if you used 4" with 2"x 3/16"x12" crosspieces, it's
still going to weigh around 12 pounds per foot or 100 pounds MINIMUM for
an 8' section.

best thing to do is see what some of the other ramps are like. This
whole calculation is so dependent on the situation that trial pieces
will be necessary to get the best balance between weight and strength.



Grant Erwin wrote:

Bugs wrote:

The loading on this type of ramp is not uniform. It is a moving
concentrated load. Whole different [design] ballgame.



Not really. You start out figuring the uniform load (or looking it up
in a table), then you divide your max allowable load by 2 to translate
it to the worst case (load concentrated midspan) then you add your
fudge factor for dynamic loading (i.e. moving). The tables all list
uniform load, that's why I asked for that spec. Your statement is
completely correct, of course. - GWE

Don't give up on the three inch channel too quickly. If I remember
correctly the stress varies as the cube of the span. So think about
having some supports that go from the ramp to the ground. The height
adjustment so they are really supporting part of the load could be
adjusting the height of the support or varying where the support
attaches to the ramp. If you have two supports per ramp, then the span
is less than 4 feet, and you gain a bit in that the support is not a
simple support too.


Dan

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Really good and sensible advice, Roy. I already told homey I wanted
nothing
to do with building his ramps out of 3" channel. I also advised him to
forget building them 8' long, to make them 11' long. - GWE

Grant, my ramps are made out of 3/16" diamond plate steel, 10" wide on the
inside, 4" deep channel. The previous owner used them to put a 743 Bobcat
into an F350 size dump truck.
RoyJ wrote:

Problem is that skid steers have really quirky loading factors when you
are trying to go down a ramp in tight quarters. In this case, you would
need to figure the full load on the downward axle, the majority of that
load on one side when you correct a bit, a bit momentum hit when you try
and stop coming down the ramp, and then some factor of safety.

As for weight, if you used 4" with 2"x 3/16"x12" crosspieces, it's still
going to weigh around 12 pounds per foot or 100 pounds MINIMUM for an 8'
section.

best thing to do is see what some of the other ramps are like. This whole
calculation is so dependent on the situation that trial pieces will be
necessary to get the best balance between weight and strength.



Grant Erwin wrote:

Bugs wrote:

The loading on this type of ramp is not uniform. It is a moving
concentrated load. Whole different [design] ballgame.



Not really. You start out figuring the uniform load (or looking it up
in a table), then you divide your max allowable load by 2 to translate
it to the worst case (load concentrated midspan) then you add your
fudge factor for dynamic loading (i.e. moving). The tables all list
uniform load, that's why I asked for that spec. Your statement is
completely correct, of course. - GWE