I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing; the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise, but
the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the "Clark" name
is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control on their
Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically
examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to
secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing;
the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I
can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise,
but the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the
"Clark" name is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control
on their Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael


I don't have personal experience with these but used an "Indian" version at
a job once. If you have access to a surface grinder you can disassemble them
and fix squareness problems.
Randy

My guess is the first vise is made in Taiwan and the second in China. The
jaws on the first one look to be hardened and ground and on the second, to
be softer. I don't much like the looks of the second vise. A mill vise you
use all the time. The swivel base you will likely not use often (I've never
used mine) but the vise itself you use almost every time you use your mill.
A poorly made vise is a misery.

GWE

DeepDiver wrote:

I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing; the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise, but
the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the "Clark" name
is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control on their
Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael

A mill vise you
use all the time. The swivel base you will likely not use often (I've never
used mine) but the vise itself you use almost every time you use your mill.
A poorly made vise is a misery.

I bought a new kurt 6 inch vise and I have never regretted it.
After 8 years in a home shop it still looks and works like new.

Based on a fair bit of eBay experience I'd go with the 1st one. The buyer
has had at least 690 transactions with no negative feedback. That's pretty
remarkable in my book.

I have 2 negatives in less than half that many transactions and I've done
nothing wrong. One is from a guy that was ****ed because I left neutral
feedback on him after he sold me a CDR when it was supposed to be a new,
packaged product. The 2nd one I received after I left negative feedback for
a buyer that did not send payment and did not reply to any emails or the
eBay invoice or the unpaid item disputes for 30 days!

In other words, it's tough to make everyone happy so he must be doing
something right.

On the other hand, the 2nd seller has a feedback rating of 98.3% and IMHO
anything under 99% is dangerous unless you look at their feedback and see a
valid reason for it. I looked at a few of his negatives and they all say
things like rude, no response to emails, really slow shipping, 5 weeks to
receive item, etc...

BTW, in case you're interested, the 1st seller wants $180 for that vise if
you use Buy It Now but based on an earlier sale it looks like his reserve is
$140.00.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically
examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to
secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing;
the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I
can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise,
but the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the
"Clark" name is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control
on their Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael

I've got the second one that I purchased from MSC on sale a couple years
ago for 129.95 plus 60.00 shipping if I remember right. One problem I have
with it is it is not level, so that if I clamp something in the jaws and
mill across the length it it will no longer be square.
Dick

--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building fine pool cues for real pool players at affordable prices.
Over 35 years experience in cue repair.
318 Linden st.
Cinti. OH 45216
ph# 513 233-7499
web site: http://www.dickiecues.com
"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
. com...
Based on a fair bit of eBay experience I'd go with the 1st one. The buyer
has had at least 690 transactions with no negative feedback. That's
pretty remarkable in my book.

I have 2 negatives in less than half that many transactions and I've done
nothing wrong. One is from a guy that was ****ed because I left neutral
feedback on him after he sold me a CDR when it was supposed to be a new,
packaged product. The 2nd one I received after I left negative feedback
for a buyer that did not send payment and did not reply to any emails or
the eBay invoice or the unpaid item disputes for 30 days!

In other words, it's tough to make everyone happy so he must be doing
something right.

On the other hand, the 2nd seller has a feedback rating of 98.3% and IMHO
anything under 99% is dangerous unless you look at their feedback and see
a valid reason for it. I looked at a few of his negatives and they all
say things like rude, no response to emails, really slow shipping, 5 weeks
to receive item, etc...

BTW, in case you're interested, the 1st seller wants $180 for that vise if
you use Buy It Now but based on an earlier sale it looks like his reserve
is $140.00.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically
examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the
two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can
see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to
secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the
second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing;
the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I
can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise,
but the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the
"Clark" name is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control
on their Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

My guess is the first vise is made in Taiwan and the second in China.

The auction page for the first vise originally stated that the vise was
Taiwanese. When I first inquired about the vise they wrote:

When I asked for clarification since their auction page listed Taiwan and
their e-mail stated China, they responded:

And they immediately updated all their Ebay pages. Good communication &
follow through!


The jaws on the first one look to be hardened and ground and on the
second,
to be softer.

I looked again, but I can't see the difference. Not that I'm doubting you; I
just cannot tell.


The swivel base you will likely not use often (I've never used mine)
but the vise itself you use almost every time you use your mill.
A poorly made vise is a misery.

I agree on the need for a good vise. I do wish I could afford a Kurt, but
even the good used ones usually sell well over $200 (and then you have to
add shipping).

I would think the swivel base to be quite handy. I'm currently using a
toolmaker's vise and it gets really annoying having to change it's
orientation from time to time.


Thanks again for your feedback,
Michael

"rhncue" wrote in message
...
I've got the second one that I purchased from MSC on sale a couple
years ago for 129.95 plus 60.00 shipping if I remember right. One problem
I have with it is it is not level, so that if I clamp something in the
jaws and mill across the length it it will no longer be square.
Dick

--


Shim it! Easy to do. I had to do it with my Enco 6" (Kurt knockoff). Been a
good vise, can't complain at all.
Lane

I have a 4" Wilton (they're imported too) that has a different design, where
the screw is enclosed, and the moving jaw is precision fit to a beam-style
bed/base.
I don't use it a lot, but it's very rigid and holds securely. The screw is
inline with the centers of the jaws.
I think Palmgren also produces vises of this design.
The only thing I felt it should have is a wiper for the moving jaw (to keep
crap from getting under the jaw), so I added a felt wiper.

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=7871
It appears that they used the picture of the 2" model for 4" & 6" models.

The vises you suggested have open, slotted bases, which is probably an
inferior design (particularly for a generic China version). As less cast
iron is likely, I would expect the base to flex when the vise is tightened.
The maximum jaw opening is typically less for this style vise, although
there seem to be some longer versions of this design.

The Clark brand is just another way to not say Ginsu.. their name is on
almost everything from accessories to welders and band saws. I seriously
doubt that there is any better design or quality control than HF, Homier or
any other brand.

WB
............

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically
examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to
secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing;
the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I
can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise,
but
the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the "Clark"
name
is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control on their
Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael






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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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I have a 4" Wilton (they're imported too) that has a different design, where
the screw is enclosed, and the moving jaw is precision fit to a beam-style
bed/base.
I don't use it a lot, but it's very rigid and holds securely. The screw is
inline with the centers of the jaws.
I think Palmgren also produces vises of this design.
The only thing I felt it should have is a wiper for the moving jaw (to keep
crap from getting under the jaw), so I added a felt wiper.

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=7871
It appears that they used the picture of the 2" model for 4" & 6" models.

The vises you suggested have open, slotted bases, which is probably an
inferior design (particularly for a generic China version). As less cast
iron is likely, I would expect the base to flex when the vise is tightened.
The maximum jaw opening is typically less for this style vise, although
there seem to be some longer versions of this design.

The Clark brand is just another way to not say Ginsu.. their name is on
almost everything from accessories to welders and band saws. I seriously
doubt that there is any better design or quality control than HF, Homier or
any other brand.

WB
............

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically
examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to
secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing;
the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I
can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise,
but
the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the "Clark"
name
is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control on their
Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael






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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
. com...
Based on a fair bit of eBay experience I'd go with the 1st one. The buyer
has had at least 690 transactions with no negative feedback. That's
pretty remarkable in my book.

On the other hand, the 2nd seller has a feedback rating of 98.3% and IMHO
anything under 99% is dangerous unless you look at their feedback and see
a valid reason for it. I looked at a few of his negatives and they all
say things like rude, no response to emails, really slow shipping, 5 weeks
to receive item, etc...

BTW, in case you're interested, the 1st seller wants $180 for that vise if
you use Buy It Now but based on an earlier sale it looks like his reserve
is $140.00.


Hi Keith, thanks for the feedback.

I had already asked about the reserve on the first vise auction and you are
correct: it is $140.

I have been impressed with the email communications I've been having with
Machinery Exchange (the dealers of the first vise sold under the "Clark"
name). They have been responsive, informative, polite, and professional: all
consistent with their 100% positive feedback rating.

To be fair to the second seller (Pits_Online), I purchased from them before
about three years ago when I was first getting started in machining, and
they did provide excellent service at that time. I had bought from them (via
Ebay) a number of items and Pits_Online was great about combining the
auctions into a single shipment (no excessive charges either, even though
the total shipment was quite heavy). When I got the package, one of the
items (an import toolmaker's vise -- the heaviest item in the shipment) had
a manufacturing defect (buggered threads, IIRC). Also, a set of insert
boring bars was not what I had expected. They agreed to exchange the vise
with a new one and promptly sent a replacement (which was perfect) at their
cost; they also refunded me for the boring bars, all with no fuss. They even
refunded me back the shipping costs I paid to return to them the defective
vise and boring bar set! I thought that was exceptional service from an Ebay
seller.

Unfortunately, Pits_Online's recent feedback has been less than stellar.
Perhaps they have new management.

In any case, at this point, I'm mostly concerned with the quality of the
vises. That second vise is fairly common and can be purchased from any
number of sources besides Pits_Online.

Regards,
Michael

I have 2 5" versions of the Kurt clone from Grizzly. They have the oil
port, *and* mounting ears. I prefer ears to bolt holes; makes
positioning the mounting hardware easier IMHO.
The auction pictures don't show the base mounting style; what you are
looking at is the rotation lock bolts.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

DeepDiver wrote:
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the chromed
handle on the second vise), there are several other differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to secure
the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table); the second
vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft bushing/bearing; the
first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences I can
see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of vise, but
the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if the "Clark" name
is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality control on their
Chinese tooling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael




--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

"JR North" wrote in message
...

The auction pictures don't show the base mounting style; what you
are looking at is the rotation lock bolts.

I realize that. Although those *would be* the vise mounting points if
placing the vise directly on the mill table without the swivel base.

As far as the swivel base, all the Chinese Kurt-style vises I've seen have
slotted mounting tabs (not bolt holes). In fact, on the first vise auction
page, you can see this in the picture showing the underside of the swivel
base.

Regards,
Michael

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085


And here's a giant 8" vise for only $130 from the second seller. Of course,
the freight on this 200 lbs monster is likely to add substantially to it's
cost!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7506984379

- Michael

"DeepDiver" wrote in
:

I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real
Kurt right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs
(probably quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to
physically examine each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have
one or both of the two that I'm looking at, and could give me some
feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...943&item=75007
64085

(On the second one, scroll down to the bottom of the page for a larger
picture.)

Besides cosmetics (different paint job between the two, and the
chromed handle on the second vise), there are several other
differences I can see:

1. The first mill's mounting "ears" have open slots for the bolts to
secure the vise to the swivel base (or directly to the milling table);
the second vise's mounting "ears" have bolt holes.

2. The second vise has an oil port for the screw shaft
bushing/bearing; the first vise does not appear to have an oil port.

I realize that's not much to go on, but those are the only differences
I can see in the photos.

I've seen quite a few Ebay sellers auctioning the second style of
vise, but the first one ("Clark" brand) is new to me. I don't know if
the "Clark" name is more reputable or if they demand a higher quality
control on their Chinese tooling.

First off, I don't care for swivel bases too much. But, if you need one I
would go with the second one. Slotted holes tend to make the vise shift
when you tighten it down. It's not as bad when you are bolting it
directly to the table as you have more contact. On the swivel pedestal it
can squirt around quite a bit. The other thing I notice about the first
one is that it appears to have some oclusions in the casting on the
bottom. If the bottom didn't clean up during machining there is a pretty
good chance there are more voids hiding inside. To be fair you can't see
the bottom of the other, and they may have used filler where it's
painted. I've bought a couple of items from the second guys (Pits) and
have never had a problem. From their feedback it looks like they run out
of stock on some items from time to time.



--

Dan

In any case, at this point, I'm mostly concerned with the quality of the
vises. That second vise is fairly common and can be purchased from any
number of sources besides Pits_Online.

Actually the first vise may not actually be any better. They may just make
it look more appealing. :-)

Have you looked at Enco's version? It looks about like the Clark in their
online catalog but in their current sales catalog it looks like the other
one. It's currently on sale for $84.95. According to the back page of the
catalog they're offering free UPS shipping until the end of May if you enter
promo code NRUPF45 and that vise is within UPS's weight limits but they have
an asterisk beside it indicating truck shipment. It may be marked wrong so
you may be able to get them to do the free shipping.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
. com...
Based on a fair bit of eBay experience I'd go with the 1st one. The
buyer has had at least 690 transactions with no negative feedback.
That's pretty remarkable in my book.

On the other hand, the 2nd seller has a feedback rating of 98.3% and IMHO
anything under 99% is dangerous unless you look at their feedback and see
a valid reason for it. I looked at a few of his negatives and they all
say things like rude, no response to emails, really slow shipping, 5
weeks to receive item, etc...

BTW, in case you're interested, the 1st seller wants $180 for that vise
if you use Buy It Now but based on an earlier sale it looks like his
reserve is $140.00.


Hi Keith, thanks for the feedback.

I had already asked about the reserve on the first vise auction and you
are correct: it is $140.

I have been impressed with the email communications I've been having with
Machinery Exchange (the dealers of the first vise sold under the "Clark"
name). They have been responsive, informative, polite, and professional:
all consistent with their 100% positive feedback rating.

To be fair to the second seller (Pits_Online), I purchased from them
before about three years ago when I was first getting started in
machining, and they did provide excellent service at that time. I had
bought from them (via Ebay) a number of items and Pits_Online was great
about combining the auctions into a single shipment (no excessive charges
either, even though the total shipment was quite heavy). When I got the
package, one of the items (an import toolmaker's vise -- the heaviest item
in the shipment) had a manufacturing defect (buggered threads, IIRC).
Also, a set of insert boring bars was not what I had expected. They agreed
to exchange the vise with a new one and promptly sent a replacement (which
was perfect) at their cost; they also refunded me for the boring bars, all
with no fuss. They even refunded me back the shipping costs I paid to
return to them the defective vise and boring bar set! I thought that was
exceptional service from an Ebay seller.

Unfortunately, Pits_Online's recent feedback has been less than stellar.
Perhaps they have new management.

In any case, at this point, I'm mostly concerned with the quality of the
vises. That second vise is fairly common and can be purchased from any
number of sources besides Pits_Online.

Regards,
Michael

There three reasons to buy the real thing despite the price. My Dad
bought one of fhe Chinese ones and an employee bent it ( actually bowed
the main casting) by tightenting it too tight. He had to disassemble
the vise and grind it straight again. I guarantee that won't happen
with a Kurt. Secondly, the hole spacing for the jaws is not he same as
the Kurt so none of the nifty keeno accessories developed by at least
50 machine shops will fit. Probably those spider style feed handles
won't fit either. The third is very important; If all you ever buy is
copies of the good stuff who will be able to invent more good stuff.
Kurt has lead the machine shop industry out of the dismall crap that
they were stuck with for about a century. They are still an inovator
and need the buyer's support as do other innovators. Leigh@MarMachine

I agree 100%. Pay the extra money and get a vise that works. There is
nothing more frustrating than a work holder you can't trust. Ebay often
has some decent deals on used Kurt vises.

wrote:

There three reasons to buy the real thing despite the price. My Dad
bought one of fhe Chinese ones and an employee bent it ( actually bowed
the main casting) by tightenting it too tight. He had to disassemble
the vise and grind it straight again. I guarantee that won't happen
with a Kurt. Secondly, the hole spacing for the jaws is not he same as
the Kurt so none of the nifty keeno accessories developed by at least
50 machine shops will fit. Probably those spider style feed handles
won't fit either. The third is very important; If all you ever buy is
copies of the good stuff who will be able to invent more good stuff.
Kurt has lead the machine shop industry out of the dismall crap that
they were stuck with for about a century. They are still an inovator
and need the buyer's support as do other innovators. Leigh@MarMachine

wrote in message
oups.com...

There three reasons to buy the real thing despite the price.


You've offered three good reasons to buy a genuine Kurt. I could come up
with at least another one or two reasons on my own. But sometimes, there's a
huge gap between theory and practice: in this case, that gap is called "a
budget" (also known as "lack of available funds"). It's not always possible
to do things "despite the price."

I would love to have an entire workshop stocked with high-quality brand-name
machines and tools. But the truth is, if I were to restrict myself to that
attitude, my workshop would be practically empty. I have been able to get
some great deals on quality new/used tooling via Ebay and occassional
distributor sales. But there are times when we all have to make compromises.
And this vise will likely be one of them for me.

As I posted earlier, even on Ebay, decent-looking Kurt vises are fetching
$250 and up (and then you have to pay another $60-80 for shipping). And
since there's usually no way to inspect the item, there is some risk
involved in the purchase, even with a Kurt (and since shipping is so
expensive, it's not like you can simply return it if you find that the vise
is damaged). There are other sellers on Ebay selling new Kurts at ~$325 and
up. But by the time you add the shipping, you might as well buy a one on
sale from Enco for $399 combined with their offer of free shipping on the
Kurt vises.

Believe me, I'd love to have a Kurt. But unless I get super-lucky soon, that
will likely have to be on a future wish list. In the mean time, I need a
vise now.

Thanks,
Michael

"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
news:XeJ5e.29083

According to the back page of the catalog they're offering free UPS
shipping until the end of May if you enter promo code NRUPF45 and
that vise is within UPS's weight limits but they have an asterisk
beside it indicating truck shipment. It may be marked wrong so you may be
able to get them to do the free shipping.

Thanks, I'll check. But I suspect that the vise is exempt from the free
shipping offer. I've always had great service with Enco's sales and support
staff. But I know from past experience that there are some items that they
will not ship via UPS even though the item is within the UPS weight/size
limits.

For example, I've long wanted to get one of the ratcheting arbor presses
that Enco has on sale from time to time. Even though the "small" one could
be shipped UPS, they insist that they'll only ship it via freight (which
adds something like $100 to the cost of the press). They claim it's because
they've had too many "damaged in shipping" issues with UPS on the
large/heavy items (which may be true, seeing how UPS tends to drop and
kick-around heavy packages). But I suspect it also has a lot to do with
Enco's many "free UPS shipping" promotions.

Regards,
Michael

Ebay is not the only source, you might want to look at Enco............
I've got the $84.95 6" model shown he
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...&PARTPG=INLMPA

Decent vice, reasonable price, and if you catch the right sale shipping is between
cheap and FREE.
I'd buy one again..................

Tom



DeepDiver wrote:

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

And here's a giant 8" vise for only $130 from the second seller. Of course,
the freight on this 200 lbs monster is likely to add substantially to it's
cost!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7506984379

- Michael

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Ebay is not the only source, you might want to look at Enco............
I've got the $84.95 6" model shown he
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...&PARTPG=INLMPA

Decent vice, reasonable price, and if you catch the right sale shipping is
between
cheap and FREE.
I'd buy one again..................

Hi Tom, thanks for the feedback.

We were discussing this Enco vise elsewhere in this thread. One of the
points of concern was that the Enco catalog marks that particular 6" vise as
a truck-freight shipment only, which means it would not qualify for the free
UPS shipping. I haven't called Enco yet to confirm.

When did you buy yours and did you get free shipping on it then?

- Michael

Thanks, I'll check. But I suspect that the vise is exempt from the free
shipping offer. I've always had great service with Enco's sales and
support staff. But I know from past experience that there are some items
that they will not ship via UPS even though the item is within the UPS
weight/size limits.

Figures... If you happen to live near a Wholesale Tool store you might want
to check with them. They have 2 or 3 vises similar to the ones you're
looking at and you won't have to pay shipping if you buy from their store.
Here's a map:

http://www.wttool.com/locations.html

I live near their Charlotte, NC store and buy quite a bit of small stuff
from them. Can't afford the big stuff. :-)

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
news:XeJ5e.29083

According to the back page of the catalog they're offering free UPS
shipping until the end of May if you enter promo code NRUPF45 and
that vise is within UPS's weight limits but they have an asterisk
beside it indicating truck shipment. It may be marked wrong so you may
be able to get them to do the free shipping.

Thanks, I'll check. But I suspect that the vise is exempt from the free
shipping offer. I've always had great service with Enco's sales and
support staff. But I know from past experience that there are some items
that they will not ship via UPS even though the item is within the UPS
weight/size limits.

For example, I've long wanted to get one of the ratcheting arbor presses
that Enco has on sale from time to time. Even though the "small" one could
be shipped UPS, they insist that they'll only ship it via freight (which
adds something like $100 to the cost of the press). They claim it's
because they've had too many "damaged in shipping" issues with UPS on the
large/heavy items (which may be true, seeing how UPS tends to drop and
kick-around heavy packages). But I suspect it also has a lot to do with
Enco's many "free UPS shipping" promotions.

Regards,
Michael

DeepDiver wrote:
I need a 6" Chinese Kurt-style milling vise (I can't afford a real Kurt
right now: even decent used ones sell high on Ebay).

It seems that there are at least two different Chinese designs (probably
quite a few more) for these vises. Without being able to physically examine
each in advance, I was wondering if any of you have one or both of the two
that I'm looking at, and could give me some feedback.

Even if you don't have one of these vises, I'd welcome any comments or
observations as to which one you think might be better:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7504899012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=7500764 085

I think I have one of the 2nd type. I got mine from Enco quite some
years ago. It is quite accurate, ie the vice's ways are parallel to the
bottom. There is a slight bow in the fixed hard jaw that I see every
time I align it with the X ways. (It is bowed out about .001" in the
middle.) Otherwise, it has been an excellent tool, and quite durable.
I have used it hard, had a few crashes and workpiece pull-outs, and it
seems just as good as the day I got it.

The swivel base is a joke, though, and I'd just skip it, unless you
really need it. With CNC, it is practically worthless. But, it might
come in handy on a manual machine when odd angles need to be cut.
The problem is it totally kills the rigidity, though. I'd say the
vise seems 5 times more rigid without the swivel base. I haven't used
it in years, like since I went to CNC.

Note the 5" vise seems to be made in India, and is totally different,
and said to be inferior.

Jon

Why wrote in
:



Ck this vise out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...859644045&ssPa
geName=STRK:MEWA:IT


Seems too good to be true. I like the half the price of a Kurt part. $85.00
might be half the price of a clapped out used one maybe. Hell a crappy
Palmgren vise is probably twice that amount.

--

Dan

I said that shipping was "between cheap and free".
Yes, it was truck shipped, but as I remember it the shipping was VERY
reasonable, for some reason $18 sticks in my mind?? Not sure, it was about 5
years ago.

Certainly worth a phone call to check the shipping..........

Truck shipping note of interest.........
I have a friend that just retired as a RoadWay freight local driver, he said
that if not for Harbor Freight and Enco there woudl have been many days that his
load would have been very small.

Tom

DeepDiver wrote:

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Ebay is not the only source, you might want to look at Enco............
I've got the $84.95 6" model shown he
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...&PARTPG=INLMPA

Decent vice, reasonable price, and if you catch the right sale shipping is
between
cheap and FREE.
I'd buy one again..................

Hi Tom, thanks for the feedback.

We were discussing this Enco vise elsewhere in this thread. One of the
points of concern was that the Enco catalog marks that particular 6" vise as
a truck-freight shipment only, which means it would not qualify for the free
UPS shipping. I haven't called Enco yet to confirm.

When did you buy yours and did you get free shipping on it then?

- Michael