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How much water in a copper tube?
I am putting a tankless gas water heater in my home. All of the copper
is in the concrete slab so I am going to run an insulated copper tube "up and over" to the kitchen. The water heater will be a foot from the two bathrooms and showers. the "up and over" tube will feed the kitchen sink and dish water - nothing else. How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 3/4 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/4 inch copper tube? I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. I am thinking of putting thinning tubing to the kitchen because less water would be in it to cool down etc. Right now I am running two 50 gallon electric water heaters in a house for two adults - I am wasting alot of energy keeping all that water hot - and the tanks are far away from where the hot water is needed anyway running thru a cold concrete slab. Harry |
Harry Everhart wrote:
How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 3/4 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/4 inch copper tube? I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. I found a formula for the different sizes on google. |
"Harry Everhart" wrote in message ... I am putting a tankless gas water heater in my home. All of the copper is in the concrete slab so I am going to run an insulated copper tube "up and over" to the kitchen. The water heater will be a foot from the two bathrooms and showers. the "up and over" tube will feed the kitchen sink and dish water - nothing else. How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 3/4 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/4 inch copper tube? I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. I am thinking of putting thinning tubing to the kitchen because less water would be in it to cool down etc. Right now I am running two 50 gallon electric water heaters in a house for two adults - I am wasting alot of energy keeping all that water hot - and the tanks are far away from where the hot water is needed anyway running thru a cold concrete slab. Harry ID x ID x .7854 x length = volume [231 cubic inches = 1 gallon = 128 ounces] Rich http://www.garage-door-hardware.com |
Harry Everhart wrote:
I am putting a tankless gas water heater in my home. All of the copper is in the concrete slab so I am going to run an insulated copper tube "up and over" to the kitchen. The water heater will be a foot from the two bathrooms and showers. the "up and over" tube will feed the kitchen sink and dish water - nothing else. How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 3/4 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/4 inch copper tube? I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. I am thinking of putting thinning tubing to the kitchen because less water would be in it to cool down etc. Right now I am running two 50 gallon electric water heaters in a house for two adults - I am wasting alot of energy keeping all that water hot - and the tanks are far away from where the hot water is needed anyway running thru a cold concrete slab. I made up a little spread sheet. It assumes 1/32" wall on the pipe. OD ID Area cu-in cu-ft cu-ft per ft per ft per 100 ft 0.500 0.469 0.173 2.071 0.001 0.120 0.750 0.719 0.406 4.869 0.003 0.282 0.250 0.219 0.038 0.451 0.000 0.026 I had to replace the copper pipes in my slab. I ran the new ones in a channel chiseled in the slab to get passed doors. For the heating system, I used 3/4" thick-wall copper pipe and wrapped it in duct tape to prevent future corrosion. The fresh water runs are 3/4" to laundry and kitchen, and 1/2" for the rest. The run to one bathroom is approximately 75 feet. It takes about 30 seconds to start getting the hot water at the end. |
On 2005-03-15, William W. Plummer wrote:
I made up a little spread sheet. It assumes 1/32" wall on the pipe. Pipe is measured by ID, not OD. Tubing is measured by OD. Wayne |
How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube?
How much water is in a 100 foot by 3/4 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/4 inch copper tube? OD ID Area cu-in cu-ft cu-ft per ft per ft per 100 ft 0.500 0.469 0.173 2.071 0.001 0.120 0.750 0.719 0.406 4.869 0.003 0.282 0.250 0.219 0.038 0.451 0.000 0.026 Dear William - Thanks for the chart. I appreciate all the work. Does that mean 100 feet of 3/4 inch holds .282 gallons? 1/2 inch holds .120 gallons? 1/4 inch holds .026 gallons? I expected 100 feet of pipe to hold so much more. Harry |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:05:04 -0500, Harry Everhart
wrote: How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? (ID/2) x 3.1416 x (pipe length) Just guessing..... tom |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:05:04 -0500, Harry Everhart
wrote: How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? (ID/2)^2 x 3.1416 x (pipe length) Sorry to square the radius. So should be radius squared times pi times length of straight tube. hth, tom |
"Harry Everhart" wrote in message I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. Yes, we do. |
Harry Everhart wrote:
How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 3/4 inch copper tube? How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/4 inch copper tube? OD ID Area cu-in cu-ft cu-ft per ft per ft per 100 ft 0.500 0.469 0.173 2.071 0.001 0.120 0.750 0.719 0.406 4.869 0.003 0.282 0.250 0.219 0.038 0.451 0.000 0.026 Dear William - Thanks for the chart. I appreciate all the work. Does that mean 100 feet of 3/4 inch holds .282 gallons? 1/2 inch holds .120 gallons? 1/4 inch holds .026 gallons? I expected 100 feet of pipe to hold so much more. Harry No. That's CUBIC FEET. Gallons per 100 ft a 0.9, 2.1, 0.2 |
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Harry Everhart" wrote in message I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. Yes, we do. LOL. I was somewhat surprised to see Harry get all of the help he did get, after that remark. Now. Who's he going to get to do the work? ;o) .... This is a good group of people. |
In article , The Real Tom Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:05:04 -0500, Harry Everhart wrote: How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? (ID/2) x 3.1416 x (pipe length) Just guessing..... Not a good guess. The formula is A = pi * radius SQUARED, not pi * radius / 2. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
G Henslee wrote:
I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. LOL. I was somewhat surprised to see Harry get all of the help he did get, after that remark. Now. Who's he going to get to do the work? ;o) ... This is a good group of people. People can sense honestly. :-) I really like this group - no one ripped me - and I got great answers. Now I must decide whether I want to run 100 feet of 1/4 inch - 1/2 inch - 3/4 inch to a kitchen sink and dishwasher 100 feet away from the tankless water heater. The tube will be overhead and insulated. Opinions on that? Harry |
Wayne Whitney wrote: On 2005-03-15, William W. Plummer wrote: I made up a little spread sheet. It assumes 1/32" wall on the pipe. Pipe is measured by ID, not OD. Tubing is measured by OD. That is a common misconception Try taking a ruler to 1/2" nominal Schedule 40 pipe sometime. Pipe of the same nominal size is the same OD regardless of schedule, but the nominal size is always less than the actual OD, and usually less than the ID too. It may be that the nominal sizes were established by taking the ID of schedule 40 pipe and subtracting some nominal allowance for accumulated scale but I have never seen that in writing anywhere. However tubing IS measured by the OD and the nominal size is the same as the OD. -- FF |
Like you, I am to lazy to look it up, but 1/4" will not provide much volume
of water. Use 1/2" or 3/4" so you dont have to wait 1/2 hour to fill your sink. And since you are going overhead you can insulate the pipe at the same time. You may experience water hammer with the 1/4" also. "Harry Everhart" wrote in message ... G Henslee wrote: I am too lazy to look it up - I am wondering if any of you experts on here have the info off-hand. LOL. I was somewhat surprised to see Harry get all of the help he did get, after that remark. Now. Who's he going to get to do the work? ;o) ... This is a good group of people. People can sense honestly. :-) I really like this group - no one ripped me - and I got great answers. Now I must decide whether I want to run 100 feet of 1/4 inch - 1/2 inch - 3/4 inch to a kitchen sink and dishwasher 100 feet away from the tankless water heater. The tube will be overhead and insulated. Opinions on that? Harry |
I really like this group - no one ripped me - and I got great answers. Now I must decide whether I want to run 100 feet of 1/4 inch - 1/2 inch - 3/4 inch to a kitchen sink and dishwasher 100 feet away from the tankless water heater. The tube will be overhead and insulated. Opinions on that? 1/2". 1/4" is too small, and anything bigger is un-necessary. How much output can the heater keep up with, anyway? |
this thread is sad.... thank the american public education system.
randy |
Refigeration tubing is ID, Plumbing pipe is sized by OD.
-- Bob Pietrangelo www.comfort-solution.biz On Time or Your Service Call is FREE Preventive Maintenance Specialist "Wayne Whitney" wrote in message ... On 2005-03-15, William W. Plummer wrote: I made up a little spread sheet. It assumes 1/32" wall on the pipe. Pipe is measured by ID, not OD. Tubing is measured by OD. Wayne |
Goedjn wrote:
1/2". 1/4" is too small, and anything bigger is un-necessary. How much output can the heater keep up with, anyway? 8 gallons per minute of 150 degree hot water. It will sit on the outside wall of my bathrooms. Since it is outside - no stack is necessary. Just water in - water out - 110 volt to run the computer and igniter. When no water is being drawn - no fuel is being spent. Harry |
"Burnt Eddy" wrote:
Like you, I am to lazy to look it up, but 1/4" will not provide much volume of water. Use 1/2" or 3/4" so you dont have to wait 1/2 hour to fill your sink. And since you are going overhead you can insulate the pipe at the same time. You may experience water hammer with the 1/4" also. Good point Eddy. I think I will just buy a coil of 1/2 inch flexible copper and run that from the tankless water heater to the kitchen sink. The dishwasher gets its water from the kitchen faucet tap. Harry |
Bob Pietrangelo wrote:
Refigeration tubing is ID, Plumbing pipe is sized by OD. Bob, Check your references. You have it backwards. Refrigeration tubing (ACR) is sized by the actual OD. Plumbing & heating tubing is sized by the nominal I.D. Therefore 1/2" plumbing tubing has an actual OD of 5/8". I just checked my textbooks to verify this so as not to give dis-information. Source: Refrigeration & Air Conditioning Technology, 3rd Edition, 1995, page 99. |
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:WKHZd.10109 Regarding; How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? (ID/2) x 3.1416 x (pipe length) Not a good guess. The formula is A = pi * radius SQUARED, not pi * radius / 2. I agree with Doug: i.e. pi times, the radius raised to the power 2 (squared) So; Inside diameter divided by two = Radius of X.Section. In this case one half divided by 2 = one quarter. Area of X.Section = Radius squared, multiplied by pi. This is one quarter times one quarter times pi = 1/16 x 3.142 = 0.196 Length of 100 feet = 100 x 12 inches. Thus (1/4 x 1/4 x 3.142 x 1200) = 236 cubic inches. Multiply that 236 by 0.004 to get gallons = 0.9 gallons approx. (Not sure if that's US or Imperial gallons but "A bit less than a gallon" is close enough). Anybody else agree? BTW those 236 cubic inches will weigh approx 8.5 pounds. Those 8.5 pounds will require 8.5 BTUs for every degree Fahrenheit change of temperature. So if that 8.5 lbs comes out of the tank at temperature of, say, 160 degrees, sits in the pipe and cools down, to say 60 degrees it will lose 100 x 8.5 = 850 BTUs of heat. If electrically heated that's equivalent to about one quarter of a kilowatt hour (unit) of electricity. If your electricity costs 10 cents per kilowatt hour that's a waste (sort of) of 2 to 3 cents. Of course that heat, slight though it is, could end up helping to heat the house! BTW There is a very good site at www.tedmongomery.com/convrsns/ for those NOT too lazy to look it up! PS. In school we remembered circular area by "Two are(a) squared pies". i.e. Pies were normally round; not square. Even if we were! |
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SN
wrote: Check your references. You have it backwards. Refrigeration tubing (ACR) is sized by the actual OD. Plumbing & heating tubing is sized by the nominal I.D. Therefore 1/2" plumbing tubing has an actual OD of 5/8". I just checked my textbooks to verify this so as not to give dis-information. Hi - No need to argue. I just wanted to find out how much water was in a 1/2 inch by 100 foot copper tubing. Just a ball park amount. I was surprised at just how little an amount of water it is. I am not worrying about wasting water - I am trying to cut down the time it takes for hot water to get to my showers. I am surprised it hold less than a gallon of water. If I insulated that 100 feet of copper tubing - the water in it will not cool off so quickly. Presently it is running through a 3/4 copper tube that is buried in the concrete slab. It is a double whammy - since it is in concrete and not insulated - you lose heat thru the heat sink - and since it is 3/4 copper the tube holds much more water. Harry |
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Let me write this down first you are probably right and I worked a hard day
today. 7/8 Refrigeration equals.........3/4 Plumbing I just bought a few hundred refrigeration fittings today too! My bad, thanks for the correction. My brain is right my hands are stupid today -- Bob Pietrangelo www.comfort-solution.biz On Time or Your Service Call is FREE Preventive Maintenance Specialist "SN" wrote in message news:EyKZd.37720$Im.33556@okepread01... Bob Pietrangelo wrote: Refigeration tubing is ID, Plumbing pipe is sized by OD. Bob, Check your references. You have it backwards. Refrigeration tubing (ACR) is sized by the actual OD. Plumbing & heating tubing is sized by the nominal I.D. Therefore 1/2" plumbing tubing has an actual OD of 5/8". I just checked my textbooks to verify this so as not to give dis-information. Source: Refrigeration & Air Conditioning Technology, 3rd Edition, 1995, page 99. |
Doug Miller wrote: In article .com, wrote: Pipe of the same nominal size is the same OD regardless of schedule, but not the same regardless of material. E.g. nominal 3/4" steel, copper, PVC, and CPVC pipe are different sizes. 3/4" schedule 40 steel pipe has an OD Of 1.050" and a wall thickness of 0.113" for an ID of 0.774". See: http://www.interpipe.com/Pipe_Dimens...nd_Weights.htm http://www.gkctcc.com/pipe_dimensions.htm or http://www.inter-mountain.com/line_pipe.htm (all good sources) 3/4" schedule 40 PVC pipe has an OD Of 1.050" and a wall thickness of 0.113" for an ID of 0.774". http://www.pvcplus.com/PVC%20schedule_40_&_80_pipe.htm Looks the same to me. I didn't check on other materials but it appears that ASTM D-1785 codifies the dimensions. That'd be the place to see if the standards vary by material. -- FF |
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blueman wrote:
(Doug Miller) writes: In article , The Real Tom Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com wrote: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:05:04 -0500, Harry Everhart wrote: How much water is in a 100 foot by 1/2 inch copper tube? (ID/2) x 3.1416 x (pipe length) Just guessing..... Not a good guess. The formula is A = pi * radius SQUARED, not pi * radius / 2. Not to nitpick, but the OP had suggested pi*radius (i.e., ID/2), not pi*radius/2. So in terms of ID, the formula is: pi*(ID/2)*(ID/2) where pi=3.14159.... The table I published above used the formula =PI()*(B2/2)^2 in the Excel spreadsheet. The B column holds the Inside Diameter. Excel supplies the right value for pi. |
Wayne Whitney wrote: That is a common misconception Try taking a ruler to 1/2" nominal Schedule 40 pipe sometime. So what's your point? 1/2" sched 40 is .680" OD. I think you are confusing mechanical tubing with sched 40 pipe. |
it was really more about laziness than education.
the american way ?? :) bill "xrongor" wrote in message ... this thread is sad.... thank the american public education system. randy |
bill a wrote: Wayne Whitney wrote: [that pipe is measured by ID, FF] That is a common misconception Try taking a ruler to 1/2" nominal Schedule 40 pipe sometime. So what's your point? 1/2" sched 40 is .680" OD. My point is stated in the article. I'll repeat it now. Pipe is not measured by ID. It is measured by OD and wall thickness. I think you are confusing mechanical tubing with sched 40 pipe. No, I am not. -- FF |
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laziness?
it looks more about wrongness, cant solve it without excellness, argue over 1/1000 of an inch of pipe inner diameter and avoid the question entirelyness, and just plain silliness. personally, if i didnt want to do the SIMPLE math, i would have filled 6" of pipe with water, stuck my finger over one end, and drained it into a measuring cup. as for what to do once you have this measurement, ill leave as a question for all to ponder.... randy it was really more about laziness than education. the american way ?? :) bill "xrongor" wrote in message ... this thread is sad.... thank the american public education system. randy |
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:31:00 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote: this thread is sad.... thank the american public education system. randy hey! don't knock the american public school system. If our schools were any good, it would be differcult for people to standout and succeed, since eveyone would be too smart. By pumping out dummies, if a person can learn how to work, there isn't much competition to standout and become a leader of your own group of idiots. That's why some of the smartest/most sucessful people in america are college dropouts (Gates, Dell, etc). Plus it seems common place for non-american educated people to become power sucessful people like the Governor of California! So, let the school systems pump out boobs. I teach my kid to count to ten without his fingers, he'll be CEO material in no time. :-p tom |
you are dead wrong, dude.
wrote in message oups.com... bill a wrote: Wayne Whitney wrote: [that pipe is measured by ID, FF] That is a common misconception Try taking a ruler to 1/2" nominal Schedule 40 pipe sometime. So what's your point? 1/2" sched 40 is .680" OD. My point is stated in the article. I'll repeat it now. Pipe is not measured by ID. It is measured by OD and wall thickness. I think you are confusing mechanical tubing with sched 40 pipe. No, I am not. -- FF |
so true...
"The Real Tom" Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com wrote in message ... On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:31:00 -0700, "xrongor" wrote: this thread is sad.... thank the american public education system. randy hey! don't knock the american public school system. If our schools were any good, it would be differcult for people to standout and succeed, since eveyone would be too smart. By pumping out dummies, if a person can learn how to work, there isn't much competition to standout and become a leader of your own group of idiots. That's why some of the smartest/most sucessful people in america are college dropouts (Gates, Dell, etc). Plus it seems common place for non-american educated people to become power sucessful people like the Governor of California! So, let the school systems pump out boobs. I teach my kid to count to ten without his fingers, he'll be CEO material in no time. :-p tom |
The Real Tom Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com wrote:
hey! don't knock the american public school system. If our schools were any good, it would be differcult for people to standout and succeed, since eveyone would be too smart. By pumping out dummies, Hi Tom - If you believe that education creates better people - and you believe that America is the best country in the world to live in - then you must therefore believe that our education system made our country better. My view point - I was a public school teacher for 33 years in the backwoods of PA. I have seen many great teachers there come and go. I feel our students do very well for themselves. Our system is not perfect and we are constantly trying to improve it. If you would spend a few years in our system - you would come out with nothing but admiration. Lots of people try to be teachers - and leave after a couple years burned out. I am no idea what you do for a living - but I am sure it is not as easy a target as public schools - everyone that goes through a school as a student thinks they are an expert on education. :-) Harry |
bill a wrote: you are dead wrong, dude. wrote in message oups.com... bill a wrote: Wayne Whitney wrote: [that pipe is measured by ID, FF] That is a common misconception Try taking a ruler to 1/2" nominal Schedule 40 pipe sometime. So what's your point? 1/2" sched 40 is .680" OD. My point is stated in the article. I'll repeat it now. Pipe is not measured by ID. It is measured by OD and wall thickness. I think you are confusing mechanical tubing with sched 40 pipe. No, I am not. Dear Mr Troll: The OD for 3/4" schedule 10 pipe is 1.050". The OD for 3/4" schedule 40 pipe is 1.050". The OD for 3/4" schedule 80 pipe is 1.050". The ID's are different for each. -- FF |
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