Stormin,

I've got some friends who are a LOT more serious about self-sufficiency and
disaster survival situations than I am. They purchase those large olive drab
Army surplus metal cans for gasoline storage. They have extremely good gaskets
and impervious steel cases. With a bit of Stabil squirted into each can,
you've got some good long-term and spillproof storage. (You see these tall gas
cans strapped to the sides of WWII Jeeps in old movies.)

If you may have to drive out to remote locations with a generator and gas cans,
then I'd consider getting a couple of these rugged storage cans.

I'll check this weekend on where to buy the Army surplus cans and post back
to the newsgroup. My friends have already done the research on lowest cost
on these very standard containers.

I know that 5 gallon plastic cans go on sale periodically for about $4.

Gideon

I agree, 1998 I consider to be modern.

OK, sounds like a good idea to avoid diesel in modern gasoline vehciles. too
much electronic stuff, oxygen sensors, and so on.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Stormin,

The article I posted was a year old and was discussing a 1998 Honda
Odyssey. I'd consider that to be a modern car - It's newer than 3 of
my four vehicles. :)

Based upon that article which I posted, I'd avoid fuel oil in any gasoline
engine.

Gideon

Hmm. That's an excellent idea. First, however, I oughta build a shed.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Stormin,

I've got some friends who are a LOT more serious about self-sufficiency and
disaster survival situations than I am. They purchase those large olive
drab
Army surplus metal cans for gasoline storage. They have extremely good
gaskets
and impervious steel cases. With a bit of Stabil squirted into each can,
you've got some good long-term and spillproof storage. (You see these tall
gas
cans strapped to the sides of WWII Jeeps in old movies.)

If you may have to drive out to remote locations with a generator and gas
cans,
then I'd consider getting a couple of these rugged storage cans.

I'll check this weekend on where to buy the Army surplus cans and post back
to the newsgroup. My friends have already done the research on lowest cost
on these very standard containers.

I know that 5 gallon plastic cans go on sale periodically for about $4.

Gideon

One of the major rules of avoiding laws. Do it very, very quietly.

Yes, from 17 to 5 cents -- serious savings.

I've heard kerosene runs just fine in diesel vehicles. Also #2 home heating
oil runs fine. But, different taxes, and different color of fuel.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
Back in the 50s - we had a farm - Dad was a coal miner - but he tried to
run a 10 acre farm on the side. One of the ways he used to "stretch" his
money was to run a mixture of 50% kerosene and 50% gasoline. At the time
gasoline was about 17 cents a gallon and kerosene was 5 cents a gallon -
at the time that was a big savings. The tractor would jug along just
fine on the mixture - it was a Ford Cub with the spread out front
wheels. I used to love to "drive" it on the seat with him.

Today - since home heating oil is "virtually" kerosene - one may be
considering running a mixture of fuel oil and gasoline in their car to
"save" money because fuel oil does not have a road tax on it. Just
remember the government colors fuels for just that reason. I doubt if
one would get caught - but it is a risk.

During the 1978 "energy crisis" - I had a friend that bought a VW diesel
- and used to run it on home heating oil which was half the price
because of no road tax. He used to pull the car into the basement and
gravity feed the fuel from the big red oil tank by the furnace. He would
have gotten away with it if he didn't brag about it everyday in the
faculty room - and some disgruntled soul turned him in. He got a big
fine - plus a lot of bad publicity in the newspapers.

PS - one time I owned a diesel Cadillac - never a diesel VW ;-)

Harry

Chainsaw on pure kero? Sounds like how to sieze up the motor. Seeing as how
no twostroke gas mixed in.

One friend of mine working at a landfill. They had a "runabout" car, soemone
dropped off. Easier than walking to the top of the hill and back. One day he
filled it up with diesel and he says it "never did run right after that".

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Porky" wrote in message
ps.com...
In my case it was blue smoke and the engine was a 2-cycle, a Dolmar
chainsaw. I bouhgt the saw second -hand for a brushing project, where
we had to cut alder trees about 2-5" in diam. A couple of days into the
project, bush camp, I woke up sick, went out, filled my jugs from a 5
gallon jug we kept under a tarp there, and rode up to the job site. Of
course the fiver was full of kerosene for the space heater, and i was
so plugged up i never even smelled it. The saw was full of gas from the
day before. I ran three tanks of kerosene through it before coffee,
blowing smoke like a house on fire, and finally got over to where my
buddies were, asked to borrow a tuning screwdriver, get the piece of
%$* to rev up right. "Did you spill kerosene on your pants this
morning?" somebody sez, handing me a screwdriver and sniffing the air.
Yeah we had a good laugh about that.
No harm done, and that saw ran till it shook itself apart many years
later.

JohnK

Actually, I posted the question on another group. On the Coleman web site
(was it?) we find out that Coleman fuel will NOT run in gasoline engines.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Toller,

We're drifting off topic a bit, but for those who want to have a moderately
safe gallon of gas in the truck for emergencies, I've sometimes carried
one of those sealed 1 gallon containers of Coleman white gas for the
Coleman lanterns. It is more expensive that gasoline at the pump,
but still far less than 10x.

It is absolutely spill proof since it has that metal seal on top which must
be pierced before you can pour out the product. I'm sure that it has been
pre-treated with a gasoline stabilizing compound. I do not know about the
volatile components - it could still be explosive if/when the container is
punctured in an accident. When I've carried it, I have stored it an area
of the trunk which I consider to be the safest area. I also protect it as
much as possible from moving about.

Note: I've carried these gallon cans but never actually needed to use
one. But I have been assured by my chemist friends that this white
gas works fine in an auto and that a modern computer-controlled car
should start on this gas.

Gideon

From: "Halcitron"
Subject: White Gas, Coleman Fuel, and Unleaded Gasoline
Date: Sunday, April 27, 2003 4:31 PM


White Gas, Coleman Fuel, and Unleaded Gasoline
White Gas, Coleman Fuel, and Unleaded Gasoline
© 1995 E. Michael Smith



These fuels are all related in that all of them are of similar boiling
points
and are distilled from petroleum from the same 'cut'. Gasoline is more
broad
in the 'cut' and has a wider range of materials in it. It also has
additives
that make it store less well. Coleman Fuel is a particular brand of the
more
generic product, white gas. White gas is gasoline without the additives in
it
yet, and may or may not be a broad cut like regular gasoline.

They all have some very nice properties as a storage fuel. They also have
some
profound differences.

Coleman fuel doesn't age and varnish up the way gasoline does. White gas is
not as clean a cut as Coleman Fuel, but I've not done long duration storage
tests on it. It might, or might not, store as well. I've used several year
old Coleman fuel with no problems at all. Gasoline more than 1 year old is
marginal. Store it for a couple of years and it will smell of varnish and
have
odd deposits on the bottom of the can.

All of these fuels are of a moderately high vapor pressure, so they can puff
up
cans in a hot trunk. Gasoline does this more, since it has more 'light'
hydrocarbons. In some cold climates, these can even include Butane! You
will
need a fuel bottle that can take some internal pressure if you intend to
store
gasoline or white gas fuels in a hot car trunk. I've done a multi year test
with Coleman Fuel in a Sigg fuel bottle in a Honda. It worked well. I've
not
tested Unleaded in similar circumstances. If you do store gasoline, use
summer gas. It has a higher boiling point and less light hydrocarbons.

These fuels burn very cleanly. They are easy to light. They evaporate
readily, so spills are to some extent self policing. The fuels are cheap,
and
readily available. Unleaded gasoline is about the most commonly available
fuel
you could want. Stoves and lanterns to use them are available from many
manufacturers just about everywhere.

So why not just use gasolines or Coleman Fuel as your camping and
preparedness
fuel of choice?

Why not, indeed. It would be a reasonable choice for most people. The
stoves
and lanterns do require pumping, which some folks find a bother. They must
be
refilled with a liquid, so you have a chance for leakage and spillage.
Getting
them lit when cold can take a while and does require a bit of a knack,
especially for the lanterns. (You wait and wait and just about when fear
has
led you to believe that the lantern will blow up any minute, the gas finally
reaches the mantle and lights, often with a startling POOF!) For folks with
no
or little mechanical aptitude, Propane or Butane are better choices.

If you have low availability of unleaded gasoline (such as someone living in
a
country where leaded gasoline still is the most common) or want a safer fuel
in
storage and don't mind the esthetics of use quite as much, then Kerosene
is
a good choice.

For most folks, though, Unleaded or White Gas is the fuel of choice, and
Coleman Fuel is just about the best brand.

Once per year, about August, I cycle my stored gasoline. The old stuff gets
dumped into the car (easy with a gas car, a bit trickier but still doable
with
a Diesel car). Then I buy a new fresh 5 gallons worth for the next
year.
The gas, being above the 2 gallon limit imposed by my home insurance for
garage
storage, goes into a detached shed away from the house. Check your
insurance
limits for flammables restrictions.

On a general use basis, I use Coleman Fuel. When fishing or camping, the
clean
burning of it, the lower smell, and the general convenience of a fuel that
treats my appliances well is worth the added cost to me. In an emergency,
I'd
use my stored gasoline. There are an increasing number of stoves these
days
that can burn your choice of {unleaded, white gas, kerosene}, so the issue
of
which fuel to choose for storage is a bit less coupled to stove choice.

If you have a gasoline car, I'd opt for Unleaded Gasoline and a 'Dual Fuel'
stove/lantern that uses unleaded and improve the storage system by putting
the
fuel in an insulated container like an ice chest (sans ice). The goal is to
cut the peak temperature experienced by the stored fuel. The insulation of
the
ice chest would help do this.

Coleman fuel is my emergency stove and lantern storage fuel of choice for
all
things other than my present car, where I use Kerosene, since I can run my
Diesel on that in a pinch. For the average person driving a gasoline car,
I'd
use Unleaded gasoline in a Sigg or MSR type fuel bottle and appliances made
for
white gas/Coleman Fuel/Unleaded.

Index to Expedient Camping (Crisis Kit) topics.


Directory of Regions served. Copyright © 1995 NetSurf, Inc. All Rights
Reserved.



caveat lector

Halcitron
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.

That's the best answer I've gotten to the question. Seeing as how it's
off a web site, I think I'll send that on to a few more groups.

Save me burning out the valves, thank you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:59 PM



Chris,
Here is a "cut and paste" that should answer your question.
- -------------
Coleman fuel is basically petroleum naphtha with a bit of rust
inhibitor. It has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and none of the
additives found in gasoline. It has a lighter molecular weight than
gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel and cannot be used as a substitute
for any of those fuels. The flammability of Coleman Fuel is
comparable to gasoline but it cannot be used in gasoline engines. It
will burn out the valves.
- -------------------
I got the info at:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/faq/f...sp?question=18

Since it is naphtha, you should be able to buy it in bulk cheaper
than you can from Coleman, but it won't have any of the rust
inhibitors in it. Naphtha is also known as "lighter fluid". Back
when I used to smoke, I bought the naphtha (benzene?) by the gallon
for about the same price as a large squeeze bottle of Robinson went
for.


- -----------
In a message dated 11/13/2004 3:50:12 PM Central Standard Time,
writes:
Does Coleman fuel have a shelf life like auto gasoline?

Can I safely use Coleman fuel in, for example, my gasoline power
generator? Would be nice to burn coleman fuel in my genny if I ran
out
of gas. And seeing as how gasoline doesn't store well.

Makes me wonder. My van is usually hard to start -- it behaves like it takes
six or seven seconds to get the fuel from the gas tank to the fuel pump.

Wonder if I coudl rig somethign with a 16 ounce propane tank, regulator, and
a hose to the air intake. Give it a shot of propane for starting.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
In 1971 - don't ask me why - I was young and "green." I was a science
teacher that wanted to show off my knowledge I guess. I bought a new
Chevy Vega - and had a propane tank put in the trunk and a carb fitted
that would work with propane. I was so proud that I had a car that could
"run inside" with little pollution. Clean burning propane would allow
the engine to run forever without needing new plugs or tuneups. In those
days when cars started up - especially in winter - they idled terribly
until they were warm but propane startups were really smooth. I would be
helping the energy crisis - I told my students. What I did not tell them
was - what a problem it was finding places to fill up. Also - that you
got less miles per gallon on propane than gasoline. After a year or so -
the whole idea wore thin (I got married) - I put the old carb back on
and ran it on gasoline. In 1973 - Winnebago made the Brave motor home
with a dual fuel option - gasoline and propane.
Just the other day I was in the junk yard - buying a replacement engine
for a friend's car. The junk yard guy - took us out in the yard with a
20 pound propane tank and a battery. Whenever we wanted to start and
engine - that was sitting for months - he would stick a propane tube in
the carb - hook up the battery - and the engine would fire right up and
run smoothly.
Harry

Probably a lot safer and easier to install an electric fuel pump if not
already so equipped but the propane should work if properly installed and
used.
Don Young
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
. ..
Makes me wonder. My van is usually hard to start -- it behaves like it
takes
six or seven seconds to get the fuel from the gas tank to the fuel pump.

Wonder if I coudl rig somethign with a 16 ounce propane tank, regulator,
and
a hose to the air intake. Give it a shot of propane for starting.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
In 1971 - don't ask me why - I was young and "green." I was a science
teacher that wanted to show off my knowledge I guess. I bought a new
Chevy Vega - and had a propane tank put in the trunk and a carb fitted
that would work with propane. I was so proud that I had a car that could
"run inside" with little pollution. Clean burning propane would allow
the engine to run forever without needing new plugs or tuneups. In those
days when cars started up - especially in winter - they idled terribly
until they were warm but propane startups were really smooth. I would be
helping the energy crisis - I told my students. What I did not tell them
was - what a problem it was finding places to fill up. Also - that you
got less miles per gallon on propane than gasoline. After a year or so -
the whole idea wore thin (I got married) - I put the old carb back on
and ran it on gasoline. In 1973 - Winnebago made the Brave motor home
with a dual fuel option - gasoline and propane.
Just the other day I was in the junk yard - buying a replacement engine
for a friend's car. The junk yard guy - took us out in the yard with a
20 pound propane tank and a battery. Whenever we wanted to start and
engine - that was sitting for months - he would stick a propane tube in
the carb - hook up the battery - and the engine would fire right up and
run smoothly.
Harry