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Are there ANY contractors who keep appointments?
A contractor will bail out if:
a. everything that Ken said. b. the customer talks too much and/or doesn't know what he wants c. the customer hints that the project is worth about half. d. there's something funky at your house, like a botched mess created by the owner or a previous contractor. e. the job is too small. Contractors have "overhead" that you can't imagine, like an hour to get the paint stuff out of the truck and "re-tool" for woodworking or tiling. The highly specialized contractors who have a truck stocked up for a single kind of job, and who charge big rates like plumbers, ... they'll show up when you want. -B wrote in message ... On 04 Jan 2005 03:08:25 GMT, ojunk (Kim) wrote: My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? No. It is not the norm, nor is it particularly unusual. The ones who don't show probably couldn't find a polite way to tell you over the phone they don't want your busienss; with the fellow who did show, I'd guess you said something that made hime decide you were not worth the trouble of following up. This is not going to make me popular here ... but I'm a remodelling contractor, and I get a lot of people who want me to rush right over and give them a free estimate. Even after I give them a ballpark over the phone .. in the hope of establishing that they at least have a realistic budget in mind. Amazingly, they don't believe their project will cost nearly as much as the last ten identical ones did.... why, their brother in law told them not to spend more than five thousand ... on a twenty five thousand dollar project. I won't make an appointment and not keep it. But I will come to your home, take a look, come to the conclusion that I don't want you or don't want your job .. and vanish. I'm not going to spend several hours costing out a project I have no desire to do. We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Why would you not go to him with a sketch of your counter tops, including their dimensions? At his show room you can see any number of edge treatments, quality of granites, sink treatments, etc. And you can see the raw slabs ... and even the saw they use for cutting them. He can give you a good estimate right there, zip out and make a template at a convenient time. Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? No. As I said, my guess would be there is something in your approach that is not sitting well with prospective contractors. But that is a guess only. Thanks, Kim HTH Ken |
"Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim This is Turtle. Your a what a contractor calls a dry call. A dry call is just another phone number in the phone book looking for a price and the odds of getting it is next to nothing or just maybe get it. Your asking for a mircle to get something done. Now research the contractors in the area and talk to everybody you know to get a grip on who the respectiable contractors are and pick the one mostly that you heard good responces from and then call him. Tell him up front that you are calling him only and wanted him to do the remodeling job for you did get some good words said about his work. Then say I am not calling a bunch of contractor for a bidding war but you are it on contractors and I want you to give me a price on the work and if I can afford it YOU will do the work. Now I want you to give me a reasoniable bid that would be concidered a reasoniable bid by any other contractor in town. If the bid is reasoniable and i can afford it, you will do the job. Now if you can't do it, Don't want to do it, or Not interested -- tell me now and I will try to find another contractor that will do the items and work I described to you. Make it clear that he is doing the job if he is just reasoniable on pricing like any other contractor in town. this takes you out of the dry call people and put you in the good customer people. The Dry call people get the run around and get no where. TURTLE |
Last time I dealt with contractors was 2 years ago when I bought a new
furnace and A/C. Called 4 companies. They all came out when they were supposed to, and got back to me promptly with quotes. Maybe you somehow project that you are not serious. |
"Kim" wrote in message
... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim sounds like it's probably considered too small a job by the local contractors to make money on, had a similar probelm getting a concrete driveway addition poured, called 4 contractors who said they would but never showed up and never called to reschedule this form of communication is becoming more commonplace in the "modern" world, i.e. no communication or extremely poor communication put it off for months then mentioned to a friend couldn't get it done he knew a hungry concrete crew and got the job done in short order keep trying till you find someone hungry enough, might help to get a friend who knows a contractor who can do it, then you might have some leverage ; ) |
"Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim Welcome to the world of remoldeling! In my last house I spent over $100,000 fixing the place up and had some good and some bad experiences. What you complain about is very common. I got so I would call 10 contractors knowing that maybe 3 or 4 just might call back and probably 2 would come by for a quote. Just keep plugging away. If they are flakes and don't show on time....forget about them...they will be flakes all the way through the project. Just don't get desparate and hire anyone. If they return your call, show on time and are licensed, bonded, insured and have no problems with the licensing board....you may have found a good one. Get a quote with a start and finish time "in writing" and only pay for materials in advance and make certain they are purchased by you directly and not the contractor because if they disappear, you can be liable for them. Good luck with your remodel!!.........Ross |
On 1/3/2005 10:08 PM US(ET), Kim took fingers to keys, and typed the
following: My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim If it's anything like where I live, which was recently reported as being the fastest growing county in the state, they're all too busy building new $1,000,000+ homes. You might go over to Lowes or Home Depot and check out their counters and installation schedules. They may have local contractors that work exclusively for them. -- Bill |
based on many experiences, the typical contractor:
has about a third grade education (in america we call this a 9th grade education). nonetheless, their way of doing things (taught to them when they were still young enough to learn, a process which has long since halted) is the ONLY way it will work, and any other way is just insane. questioning anything they say will result in immediate price doubling, or no callbacks. has child support payments owed to two different women. its hard to think straight with two screaming women calling you all the time asking for the check. so if its near child support payment time they may have never got any of your messages. they're hiding from the phone. would never DREAM of actually doing the job. they have plans to hire it out, under the table for 10 bucks an hour, to whichever alcoholic or college student answers the phone that week. when you finally do reach them you get some sort of 'well i told this other guy to call you back and schedule a time' answer. has or had a coke problem. fortunately, if you look hard enough you can find an atypical contractor. unfortunately this is a long process. randy "Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim |
My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? Pretty much. As a Southwesterner (California) returning to her ancestral stoping grounds in the deep South , you have just made me feel much better, although unfortunately I can't give you a magical formula, This sort of behaviour drives me round the bend. In three years I have found three craftsman who come when they said and did what they sign ned up for. I thought it was maybe cultural difference, as when I lived in and reported from pre-war Beirut. There just seems to be a deep streak of larceny ($1,ooo,oo camera and add-ons lost), laziness and unreliability in the building trades. You have my profound sympathy and the hope that hope your grandchildren will live and build in a better world. Leslie zemedelec |
'My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years.
On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm?' ME: This is pretty much the norm in the Trades from what ive experienced also. |
It's much cheaper just to buy the parts yourself and find whatever
Mexicans you can and hire them to do it anyway. |
I know that this was suppose to be a thread complaining about contractors
but I've been contracting on the side for years and have found that the same complaint you have about the contractors goes for the people looking for contractors, I will not work for anyone that has not been referred by another one of my respected clients. My clients know that when they refer a friend if they turn out to be a "loser" it affects their reputation and in the past 5 years I haven't had only one dud. I agree with the other contractors who are sick of pricing jobs only to find out the clients wanted to just do the work themselves or figure out what to pay their brother in law. I've gotten to the point where even I believe my rates are crazy but it keeps the duds from even asking me to take a look at their job. I think that there need to be more honesty and respect from the client and the contractors. If you don't know what you want tell them, this means more work for us. If you want a ball park figure just tell us the truth and a lot of the time we will help out. Meet us half way by coming to out location and save both of us a lot of hassle. |
wrote in message ... On 04 Jan 2005 03:08:25 GMT, ojunk (Kim) wrote: My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? No. It is not the norm, nor is it particularly unusual. Yes... it IS the norm. The ones who don't show probably couldn't find a polite way to tell you over the phone they don't want your busienss; with the fellow who did show, I'd guess you said something that made hime decide you were not worth the trouble of following up. How can they decide that when you haven't even described the job to them? I've tried the yellow pages, newspaper ads, even asked for contractor's phone #'s at Home Despot. Just trying to get a return phonecall can be a hassle! This is not going to make me popular here ... but I'm a remodelling contractor, and I get a lot of people who want me to rush right over and give them a free estimate. Even after I give them a ballpark over the phone .. in the hope of establishing that they at least have a realistic budget in mind. I never expect "right away". If they call back I always say, "I'm looking for a ballpark idea of what it would cost to do xxxxxx. If you'd like to come take a look to get details, just let me know when is good for you. I can fax or email a drawing/floorplan/etc if it would help." At that point I usually get, "Sounds doable, but I should take a look. I'll look at my calander and get back to you."... and that's the last I hear from them. Amazingly, they don't believe their project will cost nearly as much as the last ten identical ones did.... why, their brother in law told them not to spend more than five thousand ... on a twenty five thousand dollar project. Labour is the expensive part of a project. Most people can't understand how something that uses $1,000 in material can cost $5,000 or more to do. I understand it, but I don't like it so I do the small projects myself (changing a faucet, building a deck, etc.). When I'm calling a contractor it's for a large project that is very worth their time. I won't make an appointment and not keep it. But I will come to your home, take a look, come to the conclusion that I don't want you or don't want your job .. and vanish. I'm not going to spend several hours costing out a project I have no desire to do. Then just SAY SO! Any contractor who leaves the customer hanging should have their nads stomped on in public. If the job is too small or you're too busy, tell them! My garage contractor told me he was too busy to take the job on. I told him "no problem... let's plan for it next year." He was happy and so was I. We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Why would you not go to him with a sketch of your counter tops, including their dimensions? At his show room you can see any number of edge treatments, quality of granites, sink treatments, etc. And you can see the raw slabs ... and even the saw they use for cutting them. I agree that a home is not a showroom. Customers can't expect someone to pack up the whole store and bring it to their home. Customers should go to their showroom, make some choices and once rough ideas are hashed out someone with some experience should show up in the home and do the measuring/estimating/etc. No. As I said, my guess would be there is something in your approach that is not sitting well with prospective contractors. But that is a guess only. Yup... we're breathing. That really ****es off contractors. That's the only thing I can see in common with all the folks I talk to who have the same issues. |
wrote in message ... On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:13:05 GMT, "Noozer" wrote: Yup... we're breathing. That really ****es off contractors. That's the only thing I can see in common with all the folks I talk to who have the same issues. If, after this, you can't understand why you are having problems, nothing I can say will help. ....and with a reply like that I can see why there are so many lazy contractors out there. Tell me WHY I should not be ****ed off since 90% of the contractors can't even be bothered to make first contact? I'm talking about the ones that don't even return a call when a message like "Hi! I'm xxxx and my phone # is xxxx. I'm looking to getting xxxx done. Can you give me a call please?" Of course I don't go in with an attitude. I'm not stupid. |
"Noozer" wrote on 04 Jan 2005:
If I'm paying contractor rates, I want an experienced contractor. Not the kid that came to install my tile. Not the moron who doesn't know the difference between a black and white appliance. I want someone who can count past 10 on a tape measure, not explain why something is in the wrong place after the fact. This gets to the crux of the problem. There just aren't enough contractors out there. Despite the fact that remodeling and construction are highly satisfying jobs most of the time, no one wants their children to grow up to be cowboys...er, contractors. Let them fix computers and networks and such. The consequence is that there's no good contractor out there who doesn't have more business than he or she can handle. If it's a small contractor who swings a hammer during the day and does estimates during the evenings, it's especially hard to spend an hour with a potential client knowing that the likelihood of actually getting the work is slim or none. And if the contractor wants to hire help, it will be VERY difficult to find someone who will show up for work on time every day and is willing to learn. And if the contractor does find someone who will show up, can read and do simple math, and is willing to learn, once that person is trained they either want to go in business for themselves or they get lured away by another contractor desperate for help. Bottom line - this is not going to be an easy problem to solve. Home builders address it by building houses in a factory setting and trucking the work to a building site. A decline in the new housing market will direct more workers to remodeling. And as prices for quality work go up, more and more people will consider a contracting career. But that's no help for the job you want to start next month. -- Doug Boulter To reply by e-mail, remove the obvious word from the e-mail address |
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"TURTLE" wrote in message ... "Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim This is Turtle. Your a what a contractor calls a dry call. A dry call is just another phone number in the phone book looking for a price and the odds of getting it is next to nothing or just maybe get it. Your asking for a mircle to get something done. Now research the contractors in the area and talk to everybody you know to get a grip on who the respectiable contractors are and pick the one mostly that you heard good responces from and then call him. Tell him up front that you are calling him only and wanted him to do the remodeling job for you did get some good words said about his work. Then say I am not calling a bunch of contractor for a bidding war but you are it on contractors and I want you to give me a price on the work and if I can afford it YOU will do the work. Now I want you to give me a reasoniable bid that would be concidered a reasoniable bid by any other contractor in town. If the bid is reasoniable and i can afford it, you will do the job. Now if you can't do it, Don't want to do it, or Not interested -- tell me now and I will try to find another contractor that will do the items and work I described to you. Make it clear that he is doing the job if he is just reasoniable on pricing like any other contractor in town. this takes you out of the dry call people and put you in the good customer people. The Dry call people get the run around and get no where. TURTLE EXCELLENT reply, Turtle.!!! I get so tired of losers calling every company in the phone book for free quotes and especially free information! I hate customers if it wasn't for their money I would drop them all.. Rich |
this is what is known as 'mystique'; defining a good contractor as a bad
contractor. when you see bad signs like no callbacks, it must mean he's good... many businesses run on this premise. i dont do business with any of them if i can help it.... randy So when someone doesn't show up or answer his phone, he is probably ten times the contractor that the guy that shows up is. PJ |
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Okay, I've got some time on my hands this morning. Let's see if I
can articulate a contractor's perspective. 1) The term "contractor" is not interchangeable with "handyman". I am a general contractor. People call me when the job crosses several trades. Others are more specific .. ie plumbing contractor, concrete contractor, etc. I say contractor to mean the person I'm paying to do get the job done. Plumber, electrician, drywaller... whomever I hire. I do not mean Uncle Joe or the "I know a guy"... I mean the person who has the tools and knowhow and depends on doing this work as part of earning their livelyhood. I guess I should say "professional", but I've seen too many hacks to use that term much anymore. 2) I *can* do all the jobs in a given project, but I don't and won't. My tools are my experience and contacts, my cell phone, and my bank account (so I can finance projects, so my people get paid when things are slow, so I don't take on jobs that don't really fit well just because I need the money). So, if I hire you, what you would do is bring in the proper workers who would get my project done. 3) I do remodelling only. I will not build a house for you, I will not do repair work for you. My "competitive advantage" is the very high quality of our finishing. 4) I advertise more than most, yet 80% of my work comes from referrals. On a referral, I have a sixty percent chance of landing the job. On a call from an ad (what Turtle refers to as a dry call), there's about a two and a half percent chance of landing the job. But why advertise if you aren't going to at least try and get the job? As a new homeowner the advertising is pretty much all I have to work with when trying to find someone to do a job. 5) For me, a small job is anything under $25 thousand. Doesn't mean I won't do them; just means they are less economic than larger projects. It doesn't make sense to do jobs where you don't make any money. Obviously I wouldn't talk to you if I needed someone to hang and finish drywall in a 12'x15'room. The problem is finding someone who would. ---- Now, let's talk specifically about "so many lazy contractors out there" and why "90% of contractors won't return a call" , even though you have no attitude because you are not stupid. 1) When you call and say you have omitted the one thing I care most about. Try "Hi, I'm xxxxx, and YYYY recommended I call you." If you are a friend of a previous client, or you've been referred by a tradesman, or by a supplier, you will get my attention. If not, you're just another dry call ... and I'll get to you when I can. If I can. As I said, most of my calls are from the yellowpages, so this doesn't help me at all. 2) Attitude comes through .. whether we know it or nor not, we do project our attitudes. If you believe contractors are lazy, crooked, stupid or whatever, it comes through. If you are uptight .. distrustful ... it will come through. Often in the very first phone conversation. Most contractors have been around long enough that their "spidey sense" tingles. Good ones are busy enough that they don't need the aggravation. My posts here are based on experience. I don't have this attitude unless I'm actually discussing this topic with someone. You can't just one professional by the actions of another. 3) The marketplace has changed dramatically in the last couple of decades, but consumers keep getting the same old advice. Here are some things you've learned, that will not help you very much. b) Talk the job "down". You'd be amazed how many people try to trivialize a project -- "Oh, you just open up the wall here ... extend the joists a bit ... pop in a couple of support posts ... and you're done." I have no idea why they do this ... maybe they think if they make it sound simple, it'll keep the price down. Most folks don't do it on purpose. They just don't understand what's involved. When I "talk down" a project, it's not to minimalize it, it's to summarize it. c) Insist of recent reference and visit current projects. Damn right! Only good advice I'm used to seeing here. References and current projects are the best selling tools we've got. But references and visits only prove that the CAN do good work. It doesn't mean that they WILL do good work. If only five of twenty projects are any good it gives the contract enough references and projects to visit. It doesn't help identify the other 75% of his work. d) Insist on copies of insurance, compensation, bonding, etc. Okay ... but I will need copies of your last three bank statements, your previous year's income tax return and an up to date credit bureau report. If you don't trust me, why would I trust you? So you don't take deposits? You don't make contracts? These are why you'd trust me. Asking for insurance, etc. proves two things... that you are serious about your job and that I won't get sued should you fall off my roof, etc. e) Hover like a hawk. We may try to shortcut or use inferior materials. Or, you can learn how to do it yourself by watching us and asking questions. And above all, keep on top of the project, even though you're paying me to manage it. I'm a learner. I like to watch to see how it's done. I do my best to stay out of the way and make sure that whoever is doing the work is happy. I offer drinks/lunch/etc. and do what I can to make them feel welcome. f) Contractors don't like DIYers. What we don't like is picking up the pieces. I won't take over a job, whether from another contractor or from a homeowner. Rescues are expensive and seldom profitable. Rescues are always more costly than the original job. Just price accordingly and make your money. If the DIYer doesn't like the cost he doesn't have to hire you. g) Newsgroups like this are good places to get information and develop attitudes. There are some pretty knowledgeable people here, but mostly there are idiots who 1) offer poor or even dangerous advice and 2) crap on contractors because they can't find a good one. Everthing here needs to be taken with a pound of salt. : ) 1) Contrary to other views, we don't have grade three educations. I have degrees in economics and law. My trades are Masters, that's a minimum five years apprenticeship and then some serious upgrading. All but one are in their forties. Most of the serious contractors I know have advanced degrees and significant business experience. I expect whomever I hire to have a reasonable education and have emphasis on what they do. It's great that you have a law degree, but don't expect me to cover it's costs when remodelling my basement. 3) We do great work, because we do great work. That is what we do. You do not have to scare or bully us into doing a good job for you, anymore than you would have to scare or bully a surgeon into getting the operation right. I agree. If a person thinks that they need to tell their workers to "do a good job" they shouldn't have hired that person in the first place. 4). We will treat you openly, honestly and with care. Not because of a contract, not because you're watching like a hawk, not because your brother in law is a lawyer .... but because that is how we do business. Unfortunately, it's not how "we" do business. You don't know how many times I had to tell my homebuilder that the trades screwed up on my house. 5) Likes, not opposites, attract. You will attract who you are. Not always true... |
EXCELLENT reply, Turtle.!!! I get so tired of losers calling every company in the phone book for free quotes and especially free information! I hate customers if it wasn't for their money I would drop them all.. And with this attitude I hope they all drop you. If you went into a grocery store and there were no prices on any of the items, would you bother putting anything in your cart? Would you spend you time chasing someone down to ask prices? I don't expect contractors to have a "menu" of services. I don't expect contractors to tell DYIers how to do it themselves. I don't expect to get an exact quote for free. What I do expect is to be able to spend 10-15 minutes discussing what I want and ballpark amount that it may cost and not to pay for that. If it sounds good then I'll pay for your time and move forward from there. |
I think most good contractors or tradesmen are overbooked because they
are good. The trick is to find someone who knows the reputations of the various tradesmen, and get him to make a recommendation; then call the tradesman and tell him how you got his name, and what you want done. For a lot of trades, my son calls the realtor who sold him his home (and who wants to handle the next move, too) and asks for recommendations. This has worked really well for him. Apparently a good realtor realizes that some repairs or remodeling can boost the asking price of a home, and thus his commission, so they get a list of tradesmen who are good. I visited my son intending to help him with some painting in his new home; when I saw the vaulted 17 foot ceiling, complicated by curved walls and a stairway, I realized we were not going to be able to do it with ladders, and even scaffolding would be a challenge. After talking about it, he called the realtor and got names of three painters; all responded to his calls, one came over that evening and gave an estimate we liked, so he called the others and advised them. It was rainy in San Diego when this happened and the estimate was given Tuesday evening, and the work was to be done Friday(!). Wednesday it rained again and the contractor called and said he couldn't do his outdoor work in the rain and asked if he could come Thursday, a day early. He and his crew showed up and did a better job than we could have done, in far less time. Kim wrote: My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim -- SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is there. |
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"Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim With real estate values escalating and home equity loan rates still relatively low, more and more home owners are borrowing on the equity of their property and going ahead with remodeling. As a result, a good home remodeller can pick and choose his/her projects, so why would one pass up a large remodelling job to just finish up the remodelling you and your husband already started? That's just not sound business. I'd suggest you go to Lowe's or Home Depot and have them do the installation of your counters...and keep your fingers crossed that the guy they send out on your job is one of the good ones! BTW, we are doing a kitchen remodelling starting in February. We contacted our contractor in August to tell him exactly what we wanted done. He got back to us within two weeks with the plans, helped us choose cabinets that fit our budget, recommended several sources for the appliances we need to purchase, and has kept in touch via fax and e-mail to keep us updated regarding his schedule so we can plan our own. Last night he called to see if he could come today with the hardwood floor contractor, and the two of them came within minutes of the scheduled appointment. We have used this contractor before. His work is excellent and he stayed within the time frame he promised. However, I doubt we'd get such attention if we were just asking him to finish off what we had already started rather than asking him to do the whole job. In that case he'd probably just fit us into the gaps between his larger, more profitable jobs, and I suspect this is what you're going to experience. Liz |
In article , Liz says...
"Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim With real estate values escalating and home equity loan rates still relatively low, more and more home owners are borrowing on the equity of their property and going ahead with remodeling. As a result, a good home remodeller can pick and choose his/her projects, so why would one pass up a large remodelling job to just finish up the remodelling you and your husband already started? That's just not sound business. I'd suggest you go to Lowe's or Home Depot and have them do the installation of your counters...and keep your fingers crossed that the guy they send out on your job is one of the good ones! True, true. But then, he shouldn't have committed to the appointment. BTW, we are doing a kitchen remodelling starting in February. We contacted our contractor in August to tell him exactly what we wanted done. He got back to us within two weeks with the plans, helped us choose cabinets that fit our budget, recommended several sources for the appliances we need to purchase, and has kept in touch via fax and e-mail to keep us updated regarding his schedule so we can plan our own. Last night he called to see if he could come today with the hardwood floor contractor, and the two of them came within minutes of the scheduled appointment. We have used this contractor before. His work is excellent and he stayed within the time frame he promised. However, I doubt we'd get such attention if we were just asking him to finish off what we had already started rather than asking him to do the whole job. In that case he'd probably just fit us into the gaps between his larger, more profitable jobs, and I suspect this is what you're going to experience. I have a contractor that does big jobs on my house, but also small jobs, where I actually arrange to be a 'filler'. (Such as - indoor small jobs for inclement weather in summer when he's doing a lot of roofing and framing...). That we're of very long acquaintance, and that he's trustworthy enough to leave a door unlocked for, makes this work. He gives a call in the morning if the weather is bad, or some materials didn't arrive in time on some other job, or they're waiting for inspection on some other job.... and he comes in that day. Win-win. Quality-wise, like yours, he's excellent. If they're amenable to a very flexible arrangement, being a filler isn't necessarily all that bad. Then again, there are contractors who are just plain ****-poor at any arrangement. Banty |
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:57:13 GMT, "Noozer"
scribbled this interesting note: Unfortunately, it's not how "we" do business. You don't know how many times I had to tell my homebuilder that the trades screwed up on my house. There is a vast difference between your homebuilder and someone who is a master craftsman, someone who insists on doing the job right the first time, someone who will accept nothing less than a job done properly, correctly, on time, and on or under budget. We never work for home builders. Why? Because they don't pay well and there is plenty of better work to be found. Of course you had problems having your home built. Most big builders are little more than accumulations of accountants who have no experience or understanding of what actually goes into building a proper home. -- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me) |
'The ones who don't show probably couldn't find a polite way to tell you
over the phone they don't want your busienss; =A0' ME: If they dont want the business for whatever reason, they SHOULD NOT make an appointment with the consumer ; instead , if they feel its going to be a waste of time or if the competition is too tough or its too small of a job or they are too busy.....they should simply say to the consumer on the phone :" I think im going to have to take a pass on this, but thank you for considering me" . Is this such a difficult thing to say instead of making an appointment so the consumer is left sitting around waiting for someone who doesnt have any integrity ??? Im an HVAC service contractor, and if i dont want to respond to a job that comes in over the phone, i tell them im going to have to take a pass , or, i cannot for 'x' amount of days/weeks. Contractors , especially, need to have more courtesy. It would go a long way in how they are percieved by the general public. |
"effi" wrote in message
... "Kim" wrote in message ... My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm? We are currently finishing a kitchen remodel and need to have a granite counter installed. Called a guy who was recommended, he made an appointment to come today at 1:00 and show samples, etc. And never showed up or called. What gives? Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? Thanks, Kim sounds like it's probably considered too small a job by the local contractors to make money on, had a similar probelm getting a concrete driveway addition poured, called 4 contractors who said they would but never showed up and never called to reschedule this form of communication is becoming more commonplace in the "modern" world, i.e. no communication or extremely poor communication put it off for months then mentioned to a friend couldn't get it done he knew a hungry concrete crew and got the job done in short order keep trying till you find someone hungry enough, might help to get a friend who knows a contractor who can do it, then you might have some leverage ; ) reading through other replies in this thread was interesting, and a few more thoughts came to mind if you are not a corporation, you are competing with them to get talent, and talent tends to follow the money,,,in effect, corporations are making life extremely hard on individuals secondly, with 5 years restoration under his belt, has your husband considered trying to tackle the job himself? |
you ain't a HVAC contractor...
"JustCallMe Norman" wrote in message ... 'The ones who don't show probably couldn't find a polite way to tell you over the phone they don't want your busienss; ' ME: If they dont want the business for whatever reason, they SHOULD NOT make an appointment with the consumer ; instead , if they feel its going to be a waste of time or if the competition is too tough or its too small of a job or they are too busy.....they should simply say to the consumer on the phone :" I think im going to have to take a pass on this, but thank you for considering me" . Is this such a difficult thing to say instead of making an appointment so the consumer is left sitting around waiting for someone who doesnt have any integrity ??? Im an HVAC service contractor, and if i dont want to respond to a job that comes in over the phone, i tell them im going to have to take a pass , or, i cannot for 'x' amount of days/weeks. Contractors , especially, need to have more courtesy. It would go a long way in how they are percieved by the general public. |
geoman wrote:
Make it clear that he is doing the job if he is just reasoniable on pricing like any other contractor in town. this takes you out of the dry call people and put you in the good customer people. The Dry call people get the run around and get no where. TURTLE EXCELLENT reply, Turtle.!!! I get so tired of losers calling every company in the phone book for free quotes and especially free information! The problem is that often you don't know what a reasonable price is, except by calling a few people and comparing prices. A while ago I needed to have my (street-to-house) water pipe replaced. Had one guy look at it and give me a quote for $2800, then after seeing the surprised look on my face he said $2500. I said I'd let him know. He called 10 minutes later from his car and said "I can do it for $2000, but you have to let me know today". That sounded like he was trying to rip me off, so at that point I decided I'd find a better price, or do the work myself if I couldn't find one. I called a few people from the yellow pages, and got estimates anywhere from $1100 to $4300 over the phone. Things like that tell me that some are just out to rip you off. In the end I had the guy who estimated $1100 over the phone come out to look at it, he showed up on time, stuck with the $1100 bid, was able to do the job the next day, and did a fine job. Needless to say, if I ever need anything else done, I'll call this guy. If anyone ever asks me if I know of a good plumber, I'll mention this guy. |
Why would you not go to him with a sketch of your counter tops,
including their dimensions? At his show room you can see any number of edge treatments, quality of granites, sink treatments, etc. And you can see the raw slabs ... and even the saw they use for cutting them. He can give you a good estimate right there, zip out and make a template at a convenient time. Any suggestions on finding someone reliable? No. As I said, my guess would be there is something in your approach that is not sitting well with prospective contractors. But that is a guess only. Thanks, Kim HTH Ken As for going to his shop, I didn't know where it was. My friend had given me his name and number and I called him. Well, I guess it could have been something I may have said, but I don't know what. I simply told him my name and said he came highly recommended from two of my friends who had used him, (I gave their names). I told him the kitchen was ready to go with new cabnits installed but no counter yet. He asked me what I wanted to do about back splashes and told me he could install tumbled marble. I said I would let my husband and he work out those details. He made the appointment, said he would bring some samples, and we could go to the yard and pick a slab. Then, nothing. Haven't heard from him since. As for meeting people, it is just my husband and myself, our house is clean, and my husband always makes sure he has things well planned out. He had all the drawings ready as well as the sink template, and the location of the holes for the facuets, etc. We had made a decision on what we want for backsplashes (tile) and were ready to go. Seems like the right thing to me, but as I said earlier, we don't deal with contractors much so don't know the proper way, I guess. My husband is estimating about 70 square feet. Does that seem too small of a job or something? Thanks, Kim |
I'd suggest you go to
Lowe's or Home Depot and have them do the installation of your counters...and keep your fingers crossed that the guy they send out on your job is one of the good ones! Uh...thanks, but no thanks! We have invested a lot of money in this kitchen and the stuff we've seen there does not appeal to us in the least. We have not borrowed on our equity. We have paid cash for each project every step of the way. My husband gutted the kitchen down to the studs and foundation, removed an island, put up new drywall, sprayed and knock down, painted, installed crown molding. We had custom cabnets made from a kitchen and bath place and my husband installed them. We bought nice tile and my husband installed that. He has done our whole house that way, outside, inside, and backyard. But the granite, obviously, can't be done by us. We are ready to pay cash, and have it done. The kitchen is sitting there all brand new, except for the counter and appliances . I have been without a kitchen since August and am sooooo sick of sandwiches! Anyway. I really fail to see why someone would have a problem with it. They stand to make around 10,000. I'm estimating. All they have to do is come in make a template, and git er' done. And is it too much trouble to make a simple phone call if you are not going to make an appointment, or if you don't want the job just be direct (not chicken) and say so? My husband had to take off work and come wait for the guy. It's just plane impolite! |
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:02:35 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote: this is what is known as 'mystique'; defining a good contractor as a bad contractor. when you see bad signs like no callbacks, it must mean he's good... many businesses run on this premise. i dont do business with any of them if i can help it.... randy So you'll always end up with the crappy incompetent bozo. PJ |
"Noozer" wrote in message news:EUBCd.705555$%k.62084@pd7tw2no... EXCELLENT reply, Turtle.!!! I get so tired of losers calling every company in the phone book for free quotes and especially free information! I hate customers if it wasn't for their money I would drop them all.. And with this attitude I hope they all drop you. If you went into a grocery store and there were no prices on any of the items, would you bother putting anything in your cart? Would you spend you time chasing someone down to ask prices? This is Turtle. NOOSE , your speaking about a grocery store and we are talking about the service business. Call up your local grocery store and tell them to get all their prices on the stuff in the store and bring it over to my house and I will see what I want to buy from you. Now this is a free estimate and if I don't like your prices i just send you on your way and call the next store to come see about what prices they have. Secret here NOOSER , No grocery store is coming to your house to discuss prices. NOOSER , two totally different types of business which I see you do not understand. TURTLE |
"TURTLE" wrote in message ... "Noozer" wrote in message news:EUBCd.705555$%k.62084@pd7tw2no... EXCELLENT reply, Turtle.!!! I get so tired of losers calling every company in the phone book for free quotes and especially free information! I hate customers if it wasn't for their money I would drop them all.. And with this attitude I hope they all drop you. If you went into a grocery store and there were no prices on any of the items, would you bother putting anything in your cart? Would you spend you time chasing someone down to ask prices? This is Turtle. NOOSE , your speaking about a grocery store and we are talking about the service business. Call up your local grocery store and tell them to get all their prices on the stuff in the store and bring it over to my house and I will see what I want to buy from you. Now this is a free estimate and if I don't like your prices i just send you on your way and call the next store to come see about what prices they have. Secret here NOOSER , No grocery store is coming to your house to discuss prices. So it was a bad analogy... It was supposed to demonstrate that customers make their purchasing decisions based on information that they can only get from the person that they want to buy from. What I get from this thread is that contractors expect everyone who calls to know exactly what they want, how much it will cost and what work is involved to get it done. Customers are expected to wait months before hearing back from their contractor if they are at all good in their trade. Contractors have no obligation to actually give their customers any idea of what their project may cost, any idea of how long it may take or even when the contractor will contact their customer to discuss the project, if they even bother getting back to their customer at all. As I said in another post, I do not expect to get a detailed estimate for free. I don't expect to get more than 15 minutes of time with the contractor for free, and that when he has the time. If I call a contractor and tell him "I'm looking at getting a 24'x32' garage, three door, with roofing and vinyl siding, no power or drywall. The pad is already poured" all I want to hear back is "That should be between $12,000 and $16,000 and take about 10 days to do. Right now we could start in about six weeks."... From that point I can decide whether I want to deal or keep looking. That shouldn't take more than a few minutes for someone to figure out. Anyhow... the whole point for joining this thread was to post my experiences. I don't expect anything to change. |
snip
These prices are Calgary, Alberta, Canada. But by casual observation, they're not too far off for the rest of Canada and much of the USA. HTH Ken Hey Ken... It was a while ago (year and a half?) so you probably don't remember, but... You wouldn't have happened to be the guy who referred me to Steve the plumber a while back are you? I was looking at moving a bunch of PEX plumbing in my basement. Steve did a great job. He definately knows his stuff. One comment that is relevant to this thread. While he was here I asked him about another job - just a rough idea of what it would cost to move a floor drain in my concrete basement floor over about three feet. He gave me a ballpark figure and I said it sounded good and I'd call him if I decide to go with it. A while later (months), based on my basement finishing plan, I decided it would be good to do and called him. He said he'd get back to me in a couple of days. He never called so after 10 days or so I called him and again he said he'd call. This happened a few times and I finally gave up. I wasted over a month just trying to set a date. It could have been six months down the road and it would have been fine. If he was too busy or not interested he could have just said so. Another item you and I discussed was me finishing my basement. I was worried about how picky the city inspectors were going to be, etc. and you encouraged me to just go for it. I did and it went fine. The electrical inspector was impressed with my wiring and the framing inspector only mentioned one item... no box for the vent fan in a future bathroom. The basement is definately going slower than I wanted due to some major foundation cracks that my builder is dragging their heels on and that Alberta New Home Warranty won't even look at... but it is moving forward. Just wanted to say THANKS for the encouragement. I learned a few things and I know that the installation is good. Take care! |
"Noozer" wrote in message news:huTCd.716209$%k.48515@pd7tw2no... "TURTLE" wrote in message ... "Noozer" wrote in message news:EUBCd.705555$%k.62084@pd7tw2no... EXCELLENT reply, Turtle.!!! I get so tired of losers calling every company in the phone book for free quotes and especially free information! I hate customers if it wasn't for their money I would drop them all.. And with this attitude I hope they all drop you. If you went into a grocery store and there were no prices on any of the items, would you bother putting anything in your cart? Would you spend you time chasing someone down to ask prices? This is Turtle. NOOSE , your speaking about a grocery store and we are talking about the service business. Call up your local grocery store and tell them to get all their prices on the stuff in the store and bring it over to my house and I will see what I want to buy from you. Now this is a free estimate and if I don't like your prices i just send you on your way and call the next store to come see about what prices they have. Secret here NOOSER , No grocery store is coming to your house to discuss prices. So it was a bad analogy... It was supposed to demonstrate that customers make their purchasing decisions based on information that they can only get from the person that they want to buy from. What I get from this thread is that contractors expect everyone who calls to know exactly what they want, how much it will cost and what work is involved to get it done. Customers are expected to wait months before hearing back from their contractor if they are at all good in their trade. Contractors have no obligation to actually give their customers any idea of what their project may cost, any idea of how long it may take or even when the contractor will contact their customer to discuss the project, if they even bother getting back to their customer at all. As I said in another post, I do not expect to get a detailed estimate for free. I don't expect to get more than 15 minutes of time with the contractor for free, and that when he has the time. If I call a contractor and tell him "I'm looking at getting a 24'x32' garage, three door, with roofing and vinyl siding, no power or drywall. The pad is already poured" all I want to hear back is "That should be between $12,000 and $16,000 and take about 10 days to do. Right now we could start in about six weeks."... From that point I can decide whether I want to deal or keep looking. That shouldn't take more than a few minutes for someone to figure out. Anyhow... the whole point for joining this thread was to post my experiences. I don't expect anything to change. This is Turtle. NOOSER , 1/2 the customers that calls are just looking for the cheapest price they can get and has no knowledge of what quality is or cares about it. You can say different here but when a customer says I went with the cheapest bidder and I liked the way he bull****ted me into thinking his way was the best. Most all these customers will be back when it comes apart and does not work like he or she was told it would. I'm in the hvac business and if you don't install it correctly the first time. The cost rerepair in the years to come is a very big cost. I would say about 1/3 of my business is just going behind other installers and correcting problem that should have been corrected when it was installed. I'm right now going behind a hvac contractor that should have put heat in 2 -- 15 ton hvac systems and was paid for it but here now years later they found out that the heat was suppose to be in the deal and it was not. Now it is costing them about $6,000.00 extra to finish up the job. The contractor was low bidding because he knew he was going bankrupt and was getting him some extra money to try to put back and take with him when he left town. If price of the job was all that counted on the jobs. All the real professional would be in other professions and just leave the Hacks to give the lowest prices. Now I will say your my kind of customer for you will go with the lowest bid and I will repair / rebuild / fix the lowest bidders job after he is gone. If every hvac contractor would install the hvac equipment correctly about 1/2 of all the contractor in the hvac business would not be needed. When the customer base goes with the lowest bidder it calls for 2 X the people needed to keep the equipment running down the road. Thank the Lord for Hacks and Low Bidders. TURTLE |
"Dave in Lake Villa" wrote in message ... 'My husband has been remodeling our house himself for the past 5 years. On the 3 occasions we needed someone to do some work, 2 out of 3 made appointments and didn't show up or call, and one showed up once, then never showed up again. Is this the norm?' ME: This is pretty much the norm in the Trades from what ive experienced also. This is Turtle. Yes Dave I can see your point here. When there has not been any other hvac contractor over there to tell them what to do and then the customer tells you what the other contractor decide to do. You would have no ideal of where to start and try to give a price. I guess your use to the first contractor pricing it out and you get the customer to tell you what he will do it for so you can say hey I'll do it for 20% less than that. It's hell tring to be the second bidder in this business ain't it Dave. Or are you really in the business ? TURTLE |
"TURTLE" wrote in message ... When the customer base goes with the lowest bidder it calls for 2 X the people needed to keep the equipment running down the road. Thank the Lord for Hacks and Low Bidders. TURTLE The old rule of thumb is "get three quotes". If, and that is a big IF, you know the contractor, his reputation, and maybe did work with him, you don't need three quotes. I have a plumber, electrician, welder that I can call and give them a job. I don't usually ask the price because I have a feel for it and I know they do good work, fast, and show up. Fair price and we pay them on time. Typical homeowner does not have that luxury. |
"HeatMan" wrote in message .. . you ain't a HVAC contractor... Good thing. The only thing lower than a HVAC contractor is a lawyer. Yesterday and today I stayed home because a "HVAC contractor" said he was coming to give me a bid on work I need done. I need a new system installed, not just a minor service call or tirekicking collar jerker. Well, no show. But that's okay. I'm laying for them now, and hope they DO show up. I'll speak my mind, and won't mince words. But I will do the worst thing I can do to them. I will give my money to someone else. HVAC contractor! Harumph! A turd with a high sounding name is still a turd. Steve |
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:46ZCd.23502$152.905@trndny01... "TURTLE" wrote in message ... When the customer base goes with the lowest bidder it calls for 2 X the people needed to keep the equipment running down the road. Thank the Lord for Hacks and Low Bidders. TURTLE The old rule of thumb is "get three quotes". If, and that is a big IF, you know the contractor, his reputation, and maybe did work with him, you don't need three quotes. I have a plumber, electrician, welder that I can call and give them a job. I don't usually ask the price because I have a feel for it and I know they do good work, fast, and show up. Fair price and we pay them on time. Typical homeowner does not have that luxury. This is Turtle. Just about every do it yourselfers will have to get 3 bids for they don't do business with any of the crafts and have to search green with no hint as to what prices are. I have a electrician , Plumber, and Carpentner and all three sub contract to me in my HVAC business and we have a business relationship already. The Do it yourselfers are just lost when tring to bid out a job for price is all they have to go by. TURTLE |
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