why frozen gas
 

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

why frozen gas
 

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 7:21:23 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

But profit and price gouging for heirs and heiresses to big oil fortunes certainly didn't see any 'no'.

why frozen gas
 

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 7:21:23 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Thanks for that, it's the first time I heard the explanation for why freezing
impacted nat gas there. Being connected to the national grid would have
helped, but it's questionable how much. The region was in a bad, similar
situation so there likely wasn't much excess that they could have sent to
TX, but it probably could have helped some. And it's a good idea to have
that flexibility for whatever might come along.

why frozen gas
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky
wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

I agree it was a serious lack of planning for weather events but we
have a long history of that. The North East may be among the worst.
They won't even clear cut around the power lines so any no name storm,
even an ice storm, wipes out power for tens of thousands. My ex lives
less than 10 miles from the beltway and she had a generator long
before I did. She ends up using it at least once a year. I have used
mine once in 15 years.
We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..

why frozen gas
 

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 10:59:09 AM UTC-5, wrote:

We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..

Pffft. You probably don't even have snow load code requirements. :-)

Cindy Hamilton

why frozen gas
 

On 2/26/2021 10:58 AM, wrote:


I agree it was a serious lack of planning for weather events but we
have a long history of that. The North East may be among the worst.
They won't even clear cut around the power lines so any no name storm,
even an ice storm, wipes out power for tens of thousands. My ex lives
less than 10 miles from the beltway and she had a generator long
before I did. She ends up using it at least once a year. I have used
mine once in 15 years.
We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..


We had a bad storm in CT some years back and the power company became
much more aggressive cutting trees

The same people that complained about the lack of power in the storm
were protesting the cutting of the trees.

why frozen gas
 

In article , says...

We had a bad storm in CT some years back and the power company became
much more aggressive cutting trees

The same people that complained about the lack of power in the storm
were protesting the cutting of the trees.



Someties the companies just can not win.

A few weeks ago they called off school here ( middle of NC) because of
just a threat of an icey condition. Never happened. Good thing is that
with most schools going to on line learning for several days a week I
guess there was no big need to go to the school building but the classes
could be held on line.

why frozen gas
 

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 12:43:20 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/26/2021 10:58 AM, wrote:


I agree it was a serious lack of planning for weather events but we
have a long history of that. The North East may be among the worst.
They won't even clear cut around the power lines so any no name storm,
even an ice storm, wipes out power for tens of thousands. My ex lives
less than 10 miles from the beltway and she had a generator long
before I did. She ends up using it at least once a year. I have used
mine once in 15 years.
We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..

We had a bad storm in CT some years back and the power company became
much more aggressive cutting trees

The same people that complained about the lack of power in the storm
were protesting the cutting of the trees.

Same here in Michigan. It didn't help that the utility started cutting in some
of the more expensive Detroit suburbs.

Cindy Hamilton

why frozen gas
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:26:53 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 10:59:09 AM UTC-5, wrote:

We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..

Pffft. You probably don't even have snow load code requirements. :-)

Cindy Hamilton

Actually our download calculations are probably the same as yours.
That is pretty universal. By the time you build a roof structure
strong enough to hold in 150-180 MPH wind, snow ain't ****.

why frozen gas
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:43:11 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 10:58 AM, wrote:


I agree it was a serious lack of planning for weather events but we
have a long history of that. The North East may be among the worst.
They won't even clear cut around the power lines so any no name storm,
even an ice storm, wipes out power for tens of thousands. My ex lives
less than 10 miles from the beltway and she had a generator long
before I did. She ends up using it at least once a year. I have used
mine once in 15 years.
We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..


We had a bad storm in CT some years back and the power company became
much more aggressive cutting trees

The same people that complained about the lack of power in the storm
were protesting the cutting of the trees.

That is the problem. FPL just came down my street and cut every tree
that was on or leaning into the right of way. That is 24 feet from the
edge of the road. When I drove around Virginia and Maryland a couple
years ago I saw power lines going through tunnels cut in the trees.

why frozen gas
 

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 3:18:22 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:43:11 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/26/2021 10:58 AM, wrote:


I agree it was a serious lack of planning for weather events but we
have a long history of that. The North East may be among the worst.
They won't even clear cut around the power lines so any no name storm,
even an ice storm, wipes out power for tens of thousands. My ex lives
less than 10 miles from the beltway and she had a generator long
before I did. She ends up using it at least once a year. I have used
mine once in 15 years.
We actually have real storms here, not like "almost a storm Sandy"
that wiped NY/NJ out because they don't have a wind code and have
ignored FEMA since before the FIRM was established..


We had a bad storm in CT some years back and the power company became
much more aggressive cutting trees

The same people that complained about the lack of power in the storm
were protesting the cutting of the trees.
That is the problem. FPL just came down my street and cut every tree
that was on or leaning into the right of way. That is 24 feet from the
edge of the road. When I drove around Virginia and Maryland a couple
years ago I saw power lines going through tunnels cut in the trees.

Used to be the utility would come through everybody's yard and cut a big L
out of the trees near the power lines.

The Michigan Public Service Commission finally made them do a proper
job. The took out the two white pines that some previous owner of my
house stupidly planted right under the power lines, plus a few other trees.

Cindy Hamilton

why frozen gas
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.


And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

why frozen gas
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.


And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

why frozen gas
 

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.

why frozen gas
 

On 2/27/2021 12:27 PM, trader_4 wrote:


Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.


The bills are coming from Griddy. From what I read, they are not the
typical utility company but a wholesale middleman. You sign up, pay a
monthly membership fee, then you get to buy electric at the wholesale
price and save money. sure, it may fluctuate, but look at the savings
today. There was no cap.

Griddy even told people to switch to another supplier but there was not
enough time to get them switched. It was the Griddy suppliers that
increased price and they just passed it on.

What I'm not sure about it who decided to gouge with the high prices for
gas. I understand the price when from the normal fluctuation of $9 to
$15 to $1500 per mm therms. Gas wells not productive enough for profit
were suddenly opened again at those prices.

why frozen gas
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

why frozen gas
 

In article , says...

The bills are coming from Griddy. From what I read, they are not the
typical utility company but a wholesale middleman. You sign up, pay a
monthly membership fee, then you get to buy electric at the wholesale
price and save money. sure, it may fluctuate, but look at the savings
today. There was no cap.

Griddy even told people to switch to another supplier but there was not
enough time to get them switched. It was the Griddy suppliers that
increased price and they just passed it on.



I don't know about some areas of the country, but I think that where I
live the power company (Duke Enegery) charges are set by the government
and they have to ask the state for permission to raise the rate.

why frozen gas
 

On 02/27/2021 12:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The bills are coming from Griddy. From what I read, they are not the
typical utility company but a wholesale middleman. You sign up, pay a
monthly membership fee, then you get to buy electric at the wholesale
price and save money. sure, it may fluctuate, but look at the savings
today. There was no cap.

In 2019 there was a period of hours when the state mandated $9000 / MW
hour kicked in. It was a warning to Griddy customers but since it was
only a few hours they either didn't notice or figured it balanced
against the overall savings of buying at the spot energy market price.

It's a gamble. The propane company I do business with offers a pre-buy
at the end of summer for the current price. Most winters I break even,
one winter when the price went up I made out. A couple of years I lost a
little when the price dropped. So it goes. The electric co-op I'm in
does the same thing with long term contracts with the BPA. Sometimes it
may be less expensive on the energy market but there are no surprises.

lowbrowwoman, the Endlessly Driveling Senile Gossip
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 16:06:28 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


In 2019 there was a period of hours when the state mandated $9000 / MW
hour kicked in. It was a warning to Griddy customers but since it was

....and the senile babbling continues! ****ing unbelievable! tsk

why frozen gas
 

On 2/27/2021 6:03 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

The bills are coming from Griddy. From what I read, they are not the
typical utility company but a wholesale middleman. You sign up, pay a
monthly membership fee, then you get to buy electric at the wholesale
price and save money. sure, it may fluctuate, but look at the savings
today. There was no cap.

Griddy even told people to switch to another supplier but there was not
enough time to get them switched. It was the Griddy suppliers that
increased price and they just passed it on.



I don't know about some areas of the country, but I think that where I
live the power company (Duke Enegery) charges are set by the government
and they have to ask the state for permission to raise the rate.


Most areas of the country are similar but Texas opted to make their own
grid to escape regulations. In CT we could choose a supplier but they
all had fixed rates in a narrow range.

Texas has a bunch of suppliers too, some cheap. Just look at the number
of choices
https://tinyurl.com/55h27ah6

why frozen gas
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 18:03:24 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

The bills are coming from Griddy. From what I read, they are not the
typical utility company but a wholesale middleman. You sign up, pay a
monthly membership fee, then you get to buy electric at the wholesale
price and save money. sure, it may fluctuate, but look at the savings
today. There was no cap.

Griddy even told people to switch to another supplier but there was not
enough time to get them switched. It was the Griddy suppliers that
increased price and they just passed it on.



I don't know about some areas of the country, but I think that where I
live the power company (Duke Enegery) charges are set by the government
and they have to ask the state for permission to raise the rate.

Texas is "unregulated'

why frozen gas
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 16:06:28 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/27/2021 12:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The bills are coming from Griddy. From what I read, they are not the
typical utility company but a wholesale middleman. You sign up, pay a
monthly membership fee, then you get to buy electric at the wholesale
price and save money. sure, it may fluctuate, but look at the savings
today. There was no cap.

In 2019 there was a period of hours when the state mandated $9000 / MW
hour kicked in. It was a warning to Griddy customers but since it was
only a few hours they either didn't notice or figured it balanced
against the overall savings of buying at the spot energy market price.

It's a gamble. The propane company I do business with offers a pre-buy
at the end of summer for the current price. Most winters I break even,
one winter when the price went up I made out. A couple of years I lost a
little when the price dropped. So it goes. The electric co-op I'm in
does the same thing with long term contracts with the BPA. Sometimes it
may be less expensive on the energy market but there are no surprises.


That is a pretty safe bet since you know what the price you pay is
going to be. This Griddy deal was more like a commodity bet. You are
not sure how much it might cost you if you guess wrong.

why frozen gas
 

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.

why frozen gas
 

On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.

Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

why frozen gas
 

In writes:

[snip]

Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

Obligatory callout to the Hillary haters so they can
talk about her cattle futures windfall:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillar...es_controversy


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

why frozen gas
 

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

why frozen gas
 

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

why frozen gas
 

On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.
that were just ripped off by totally unethical shysters. Screw them, they
should have know their bills would go from $100, to $10,000. That's the new
America, where lies and shysters prevail, screw whoever you can.
Next you can defend the companies collecting, putting the people out on the street,
becoming welfare cases so the taxpayers wind up paying for them.
More good Fretwell public policy.

why frozen gas
 

On 3/2/21 9:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.
In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.
And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )
There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.
Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.
I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.
It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.
Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.
that were just ripped off by totally unethical shysters. Screw them, they
should have know their bills would go from $100, to $10,000. That's the new
America, where lies and shysters prevail, screw whoever you can.
Next you can defend the companies collecting, putting the people out on the street,
becoming welfare cases so the taxpayers wind up paying for them.
More good Fretwell public policy.



Before Biden stole the election, gasoline was ~$2/gal.Â* Yesterday I filled up at $2.76.Â* ****in' democrats!

why frozen gas
 

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 11:48:13 AM UTC-5, jimmy wrote:

Before Biden stole the election, gasoline was ~$2/gal. Yesterday I filled up at $2.76. ****in' democrats!

That's because of the problems in Texas, you dumbass. Anything that
even hints at a problem with the supply of gasoline will cause the price
to rise.

Cindy Hamilton

why frozen gas
 

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 06:43:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.
that were just ripped off by totally unethical shysters. Screw them, they
should have know their bills would go from $100, to $10,000.

Some cases were even worse, like this one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/u...ric-bills.html
His Lights Stayed on During Texas’ Storm. Now He Owes $16,752.

“My savings is gone,” said Scott Willoughby, a 63-year-old Army veteran who
lives on Social Security payments in a Dallas suburb. He said he had nearly
emptied his savings account so that he would be able to pay the $16,752
electric bill charged to his credit card — 70 times what he usually pays
for all of his utilities combined. “There’s nothing I can do about it, but
it’s broken me.”


That's the new
America, where lies and shysters prevail, screw whoever you can.
Next you can defend the companies collecting, putting the people out on the street,
becoming welfare cases so the taxpayers wind up paying for them.
More good Fretwell public policy.

why frozen gas
 

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:48:03 -0500, jimmy
wrote:

On 3/2/21 9:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.
In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.
And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )
There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.
Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.
I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.
It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.
Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.
that were just ripped off by totally unethical shysters. Screw them, they
should have know their bills would go from $100, to $10,000. That's the new
America, where lies and shysters prevail, screw whoever you can.
Next you can defend the companies collecting, putting the people out on the street,
becoming welfare cases so the taxpayers wind up paying for them.
More good Fretwell public policy.



Before Biden stole the election, gasoline was ~$2/gal.* Yesterday I filled up at $2.76.* ****in' democrats!



Here in Ontario I was paying $0.90 a liter before November and $1.26
last week. No Femocrats or even government change invilved - just
supply and demand. The storm shutting down TexASS oil refineries
didn't help

why frozen gas
 

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 06:43:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.

If these people got to be elderly and decided to take that gamble,
they didn't learn much in all of those years. When people want
something for nothing they often end up with nothing.

They could have got their electricity from a conventional utility if
they wanted a safe contract.

why frozen gas
 

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:48:03 -0500, jimmy
wrote:

On 3/2/21 9:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.
In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.
And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )
There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East, and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.
Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.
I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.
It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.
Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.
that were just ripped off by totally unethical shysters. Screw them, they
should have know their bills would go from $100, to $10,000. That's the new
America, where lies and shysters prevail, screw whoever you can.
Next you can defend the companies collecting, putting the people out on the street,
becoming welfare cases so the taxpayers wind up paying for them.
More good Fretwell public policy.



Before Biden stole the election, gasoline was ~$2/gal.Â* Yesterday I filled up at $2.76.Â* ****in' democrats!

Wait for that 40 cent "carbon tax" on top of $4-5 gas because of the
anti oil policies the democrats are pushing. then you can really
gripe.
They really want European petrol taxes and prices.

why frozen gas
 

On 3/2/2021 3:03 PM, wrote:

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off, there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.

If these people got to be elderly and decided to take that gamble,
they didn't learn much in all of those years. When people want
something for nothing they often end up with nothing.

They could have got their electricity from a conventional utility if
they wanted a safe contract.

This is far beyond not safe. I'm sure many of these people knew there
was a risk but there is no justification for $100 bills becoming $10,000
with little or no notice. None. Totally immoral.

Show me where this has happened and where it would be considered "normal
risk" or even a high risk.

why frozen gas
 

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 2:06:30 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:48:03 -0500, jimmy
wrote:
On 3/2/21 9:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, gfre...@a
Before Biden stole the election, gasoline was ~$2/gal. Yesterday I filled up at $2.76. ****in' democrats!

Wait for that 40 cent "carbon tax" on top of $4-5 gas because of the
anti oil policies the democrats are pushing. then you can really
gripe.
They really want European petrol taxes and prices.
Gas has hit $4.05 in California.
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/03/01/southern-california-high-gas-prices-summer-blend/
Super unleaded (10%) is $2.73/gallon in a nearby Nebraska town. I think it was right at $2.00/gallon
a few months ago.

why frozen gas
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 06:43:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 05:32:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:02:13 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 07:02:25 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 3:15:58 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 11:31:52 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:14:08 -0600, Jim Joyce

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:21:16 -0500, micky
wrote:

Somone on NPR's Morning Edition excplained that the water in
natural gas
is removed by the gas companies in the north, so thta it
won't freeze,
but they didn't do that in Texas, so it did freeze.

I suspect they're not set up to do it even if they wanted to.

In Texas, like you said, the natural gas distribution system
isn't
winterized. Likewise, the wind farms aren't winterized, which
led to Gov
Abbott's bizarre claim that wind energy stops working in cold
weather. I
guess someone should tell him that wind energy works just fine
in cold
weather if you take steps to make it so. There are plenty of
examples of
that around the world.

This isn't the first time the power grid partially collapsed
in Texas as a
result of cold weather. Just like before, recommendations get
made that
ERCOT should winterize their freaking equipment, but as
before, they've
said they won't do it because it costs too much.

I suppose the customers have a say in that because that cost
would
show up in their bill. These are cheap *******s and they might
still
say no assuming this won't happen again any time soon.
You just have to think of those people who tied their bill to
the
wholesale cost of power and got clobbered when the wholesale
price
skyrocketed.
Other places are willing to pay extra for better reliability.
We actually understand we pay a little extra on our bills here
in
Florida to cover storms. We had a "Storm Charge" on our bills
for
years after Charley and Wilma but the extra we paid in on the
regular
service charge was enough to cover the Irma damage so they
didn't need
to tack on an extra charge to cover the shortfall.

And of course, the Texas electric grid is separate from the
rest of
America, so they won't be regulated by the feds, but this
means they
also can't take electricity from the rest of the country when
they need
it, like last week. (Except for El Paso, which is connected
to the USA
grid and iiuc not the Texas grid. )

There are actually 3 electrical grids in the US: West, East,
and Texas.

Hence, no gas and no electricity.

Something is obviously very wrong when customers in TX who were
getting $100
electric bills got bills for $10K because of the power problem. I
can't even
begin to imagine that happening. You would think the power
companies would
say hold those bills, let's work on this. Then go back at the
suppliers, saying
this is nuts, we expect some increased costs, even substantial
ones, but
$100 to $10K? And they should have told those suppliers to be
reasonable,
fix it or we're going public to identify who's ripping you off,
there will be
multiple investigations and it's unlikely you'll get away with it
or even do
business in America again by the time it's over. But the bigger
solution
would be some regulatory caps so that suppliers can't charge
totally insane
and unjustifiable prices. Even if they built a new plant that
day, it would
not justify those prices.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Those customers were playing the electrical commodities market
with
the big boys and like most amateurs who get into commodities, they
got
****ed.

I guess it's too much to expect that regulators in a Republican
state would
prevent utilities being marketed as utilities when they are actually
commodities
that can skyrocket by a factor of a hundred overnight. BTW, I have
never
seen any commodity do that, increase by two orders of magnitude in a
day or two, not even in a month, ever. Nothing even close. If you
have an example,
I sure would love to see it. I guess that's because the commodities
market
is regulated and shysters can't easily pull such a stunt.
Bear in mind Bill Clinton signed the legislation that treated the
derivatives markets as commodities so seeing disasters happen is not
unprecedented.
I don't know of a commodity in particular that has had that much
delta
in a day but I don't play the commodities game., It is certainly
possible tho.

It's never happened, nothing even remotely close and the TX electric
disaster
has nothing to do with the commodity markets, derivatives, or Clinton.
It has to do with a lot of stupid in TX, including some
really glaring things, like the four ERCOT board members, the
regulators,
who resigned. They didn't even live in TX. Or was it 6? But heh,
according to the Republican governor, it was wind mills that were the
problem. According to another Republican, windmills cause cancer.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play the electrical
wholesale game. There were plenty of normal utility options open to
these people but they just got greedy. There are 3d party options for
who you buy your power from all over the country. It just comes with a
warning that this is not a regular utility deal. A few people ignored
the warnings.
Sometimes you just have to let the baby touch the stove.

Yes, no surprise you have no empathy for consumers, including many
elderly,
and people of modest means who don't know any better.

If these people got to be elderly and decided to take
that gamble, they didn't learn much in all of those years.

When people want something for nothing they often end up with nothing.

That's bull****. I have never been stupid enough to pay any
fee for a bank account, credit card etc etc etc and have
ended up so comfortably off that I havent even bothered
to do the paperwork to get the state aged pension etc.

why frozen gas
 

In article , says...
They could have got their electricity from a conventional utility if
they wanted a safe contract.

This is far beyond not safe. I'm sure many of these people knew there
was a risk but there is no justification for $100 bills becoming $10,000
with little or no notice. None. Totally immoral.

Show me where this has happened and where it would be considered "normal
risk" or even a high risk.



If the rates had gone up maybe 5 times it would not be too bad, but for
electricity to jump 100 times without warning is just not right.

AS mentioned, I do not know anything about the TX system. Are there
several kinds of options such as paying a flat rate per KWH or like the
natural gas where you can take out contrct to pay so much per unit at a
certain time frame ?

It is often posiable that many do not read or know how to read the fine
print in many contracts. Just as I have been trying to find out how
much cable and direct TV is. They show big numbers whre you can seen
them, then at the bottom of the page it usually just says 'for 6
months' or whatever but no price after that.

Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
 

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 08:28:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

Oh, darn! And this little thread was Rodent-free, so far! tsk

--
Bod addressing senile Rot:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
Message-ID:

why frozen gas
 

On 3/2/2021 4:31 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
They could have got their electricity from a conventional utility if
they wanted a safe contract.

This is far beyond not safe. I'm sure many of these people knew there
was a risk but there is no justification for $100 bills becoming $10,000
with little or no notice. None. Totally immoral.

Show me where this has happened and where it would be considered "normal
risk" or even a high risk.



If the rates had gone up maybe 5 times it would not be too bad, but for
electricity to jump 100 times without warning is just not right.

AS mentioned, I do not know anything about the TX system. Are there
several kinds of options such as paying a flat rate per KWH or like the
natural gas where you can take out contrct to pay so much per unit at a
certain time frame ?

It is often posiable that many do not read or know how to read the fine
print in many contracts. Just as I have been trying to find out how
much cable and direct TV is. They show big numbers whre you can seen
them, then at the bottom of the page it usually just says 'for 6
months' or whatever but no price after that.



Sure the average is something like 11.6 cents a kWh but it jumped to $90

https://theconversation.com/whats-be...n-texas-155822