On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

On 2/4/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

I grew up in Philadelphia. In some sections it is no big deal to add a
charger. Single home decent lot size. In many older neighborhoods 100
years old, it is impossible. Houses are 14 feet wide and run the entire
block on a narrow street with parking on one side. You are lucky to be
able to park on your own block let alone in front of your own house.
About 25 to 28 houses on each side. solid line of cars parked there.
Easily 20 to 25 cars parked. How do you charge them all?
https://tinyurl.com/qnlub2t

On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 21:15:08 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/4/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

I grew up in Philadelphia. In some sections it is no big deal to add a
charger. Single home decent lot size. In many older neighborhoods 100
years old, it is impossible. Houses are 14 feet wide and run the entire
block on a narrow street with parking on one side. You are lucky to be
able to park on your own block let alone in front of your own house.
About 25 to 28 houses on each side. solid line of cars parked there.
Easily 20 to 25 cars parked. How do you charge them all?
https://tinyurl.com/qnlub2t

I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

On 05/02/2020 00:15, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

Ok, but the US seems to be going in the opposite direction,
especially under Trump.

--
Bod

On 05/02/2020 02:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/4/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the
planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

I grew up in Philadelphia.Â* In some sections it is no big deal to add a
charger. Single home decent lot size.Â*Â* In many older neighborhoods 100
years old, it is impossible.Â* Houses are 14 feet wide and run the entire
block on a narrow street with parking on one side.Â* You are lucky to be
able to park on your own block let alone in front of your own house.
About 25 to 28 houses on each side. solid line of cars parked there.
Easily 20 to 25 cars parked.Â* How do you charge them all?
https://tinyurl.com/qnlub2t

Yes, logistics and infrastructure would pose a problem, but they
originally said that putting a man on the moon was impossible at one
time. Underground chargers that transfer electricity wirelessly for
instance? You park up and they can charge overnight.


--
Bod

On 2/5/20 3:01 AM, Bod wrote:
On 05/02/2020 00:15, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

Ok, but the US seems to be going in the opposite direction, especially under Trump.


You've been duped by the fake news media. I thought you were smarter than that.

On 2/4/2020 11:18 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 21:15:08 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/4/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

I grew up in Philadelphia. In some sections it is no big deal to add a
charger. Single home decent lot size. In many older neighborhoods 100
years old, it is impossible. Houses are 14 feet wide and run the entire
block on a narrow street with parking on one side. You are lucky to be
able to park on your own block let alone in front of your own house.
About 25 to 28 houses on each side. solid line of cars parked there.
Easily 20 to 25 cars parked. How do you charge them all?
https://tinyurl.com/qnlub2t

I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.

On 2/5/2020 3:10 AM, Bod wrote:
On 05/02/2020 02:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/4/2020 7:15 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 11:32:02 +0000, Bod wrote:

A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be
brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government
plans.

The change comes after experts said 2040 would be too late if the UK
wants to achieve its target of emitting virtually zero carbon by 2050.

Boris Johnson unveiled the policy as part of a launch event for a
United
Nations climate summit in November.

He said 2020 would be a "defining year of climate action" for the
planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123

Probably works in a place the size of Michigan with the population
density of Maryland. I would only worry about your grid. You folks
seem to have pretty modest services to your homes. A car charger might
double it. 200 amp panels are popular here and most people need to
bump that up if they want a car charger (~50a or so extra)

I grew up in Philadelphia.Â* In some sections it is no big deal to add
a charger. Single home decent lot size.Â*Â* In many older neighborhoods
100 years old, it is impossible.Â* Houses are 14 feet wide and run the
entire block on a narrow street with parking on one side.Â* You are
lucky to be able to park on your own block let alone in front of your
own house. About 25 to 28 houses on each side. solid line of cars
parked there. Easily 20 to 25 cars parked.Â* How do you charge them all?
https://tinyurl.com/qnlub2t

Yes, logistics and infrastructure would pose a problem, but they
originally said that putting a man on the moon was impossible at one
time. Underground chargers that transfer electricity wirelessly for
instance? You park up and they can charge overnight.


Moon landing was staged according to some people.

Sure, things can be done but it will take years and lots of money. Most
of the people saying we must switch to EV have no idea what has to be
done. Perhaps a new generation of batteries with higher range and
faster charging times.

At least the lithium mines are keeping those 10 year old kids employed.
We can always send more kids as demand increases.

On 02/05/2020 07:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
At least the lithium mines are keeping those 10 year old kids employed.
We can always send more kids as demand increases.

The wars for lithium and tantalum will make the wars for oil look like a
picnic. Gotta keep churning out those iPhones for the Tesla Apple
CarPlay interface.

In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.

One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

On 2/5/2020 10:33 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.

One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

I can see a small EV for city driving and relatively short commute.
When I lived with my grandmother I had a Corvair. I was able to park in
the spot passed up by the guy with a Buick station wagon.

I've also been spoiled with excellent climate control for many years
now. I'd want the same powerful heat and AC for my comfort. I don't
know how good it is in the electrics but it takes away range.

Ralph Mowery writes:

In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her
street was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still
difficult though as there were more cars than houses. It was not
unusual to be a half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord
to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the
fights when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will
dig out in front of their house and there have been killings when
people tried to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even
own a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.

A Tesla model 3 long range version is getting 322 miles. A recent rumor
says this will soon increase to 500.

Tesla supercharging stations charge with up to 150 kW of power
distributed between two cars with a maximum of 150 kW per car,
depending on version. They take about 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40
minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the original 85
kWh Model S.

One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind
of quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and
press a button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in
another . Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

That appears to be Tesla's planned business model.
There's just the small detail of self-driving standing in their way.

--
Dan Espen

On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 10:34:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.


We're kind of at the ~300 mile range. But it also depends on
whether you need heat or AC, which decrease it. Charging is down to
an hour or 90 mins, using a supercharger, but you won't find them
most places, at least not yet. There is one here at a shopping outlet
mall. I can see an electric as a second car, but I agree there are
some big limitations if it's your only car. Like needing to go somewhere
unexpectedly and the car is low on charge or taking a long trip.
From here to Vermont to go skiing is a 5 hour, 300 mile trip.
I'd have to stop somewhere to at least top off and that just makes an
already long trip worse. People like to leave after work for a weekend,
now instead of getting there 11PM, you arrive how much later?
And you have to stop where to charge? If I have to stop, maybe I
want to go to a particular type of restaurant, not eat at Burger King
at a rest stop. Do they have fast charging at the restaurant?
Not today. But, they will likely get better range as time goes on
and just a bit more and it will be practical for even that. Meanwhile
you can buy a plug-in hybrid that solves all of the above.





One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

It would take a hell of a big facility to store and manage the batteries.

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 10:33:53 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.

I grew up in a town of 33, but the population dropped to 31 when my buddy
and I enlisted. These days there are 7 people still there, last I checked.
Like you say, it was nothing to hop in the car and drive 20 miles to the
nearest bigger town of 700 people to do our shopping, or driving 100 miles
to an even bigger town of nearly 80,000 people.

Over the past 6-7 years, I've been to NYC about two dozen times to do
consulting jobs and I love it there. Most folks that I know of don't own a
car, but you generally don't need one. Everything is in walking distance,
and everything is open 24/7. It's pretty amazing. I don't think I'll be
moving there, but if the right opportunity came along, I could definitely
see myself living there.

One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

I've wondered about the same things, where you just swap out the battery
pack or you drop off one car and take another.

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:09:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 10:34:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.


We're kind of at the ~300 mile range. But it also depends on
whether you need heat or AC, which decrease it. Charging is down to
an hour or 90 mins, using a supercharger, but you won't find them
most places, at least not yet. There is one here at a shopping outlet
mall. I can see an electric as a second car, but I agree there are
some big limitations if it's your only car. Like needing to go somewhere
unexpectedly and the car is low on charge or taking a long trip.
From here to Vermont to go skiing is a 5 hour, 300 mile trip.
I'd have to stop somewhere to at least top off and that just makes an
already long trip worse. People like to leave after work for a weekend,
now instead of getting there 11PM, you arrive how much later?
And you have to stop where to charge? If I have to stop, maybe I
want to go to a particular type of restaurant, not eat at Burger King
at a rest stop. Do they have fast charging at the restaurant?
Not today. But, they will likely get better range as time goes on
and just a bit more and it will be practical for even that. Meanwhile
you can buy a plug-in hybrid that solves all of the above.





One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

It would take a hell of a big facility to store and manage the batteries.

What about a hybrid that has a tiny gas engine that's only used to run a
generator that keeps the batteries charged as you drive? Also, put a solar
panel on the roof and make it look like the black vinyl tops that used to
be popular in the '70's.

The fact that they don't do that tells me it's a dumb idea, but I excel at
those.

On 05/02/2020 16:56, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:09:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 10:34:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.


We're kind of at the ~300 mile range. But it also depends on
whether you need heat or AC, which decrease it. Charging is down to
an hour or 90 mins, using a supercharger, but you won't find them
most places, at least not yet. There is one here at a shopping outlet
mall. I can see an electric as a second car, but I agree there are
some big limitations if it's your only car. Like needing to go somewhere
unexpectedly and the car is low on charge or taking a long trip.
From here to Vermont to go skiing is a 5 hour, 300 mile trip.
I'd have to stop somewhere to at least top off and that just makes an
already long trip worse. People like to leave after work for a weekend,
now instead of getting there 11PM, you arrive how much later?
And you have to stop where to charge? If I have to stop, maybe I
want to go to a particular type of restaurant, not eat at Burger King
at a rest stop. Do they have fast charging at the restaurant?
Not today. But, they will likely get better range as time goes on
and just a bit more and it will be practical for even that. Meanwhile
you can buy a plug-in hybrid that solves all of the above.





One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

It would take a hell of a big facility to store and manage the batteries.

What about a hybrid that has a tiny gas engine that's only used to run a
generator that keeps the batteries charged as you drive? Also, put a solar
panel on the roof and make it look like the black vinyl tops that used to
be popular in the '70's.

The fact that they don't do that tells me it's a dumb idea, but I excel at
those.

:-)

--
Bod

On 2/5/2020 11:56 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:09:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 10:34:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.


We're kind of at the ~300 mile range. But it also depends on
whether you need heat or AC, which decrease it. Charging is down to
an hour or 90 mins, using a supercharger, but you won't find them
most places, at least not yet. There is one here at a shopping outlet
mall. I can see an electric as a second car, but I agree there are
some big limitations if it's your only car. Like needing to go somewhere
unexpectedly and the car is low on charge or taking a long trip.
From here to Vermont to go skiing is a 5 hour, 300 mile trip.
I'd have to stop somewhere to at least top off and that just makes an
already long trip worse. People like to leave after work for a weekend,
now instead of getting there 11PM, you arrive how much later?
And you have to stop where to charge? If I have to stop, maybe I
want to go to a particular type of restaurant, not eat at Burger King
at a rest stop. Do they have fast charging at the restaurant?
Not today. But, they will likely get better range as time goes on
and just a bit more and it will be practical for even that. Meanwhile
you can buy a plug-in hybrid that solves all of the above.





One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

It would take a hell of a big facility to store and manage the batteries.

What about a hybrid that has a tiny gas engine that's only used to run a
generator that keeps the batteries charged as you drive? Also, put a solar
panel on the roof and make it look like the black vinyl tops that used to
be popular in the '70's.

The fact that they don't do that tells me it's a dumb idea, but I excel at
those.

The original Chevy Volt has the gas engine AFAIK.

Hyundai has an electric in India with the solar roof. Not enough to
keep you going but it did add to range over time. They are just not
efficient enough yet.

On 2/5/2020 11:48 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:



Over the past 6-7 years, I've been to NYC about two dozen times to do
consulting jobs and I love it there. Most folks that I know of don't own a
car, but you generally don't need one. Everything is in walking distance,
and everything is open 24/7. It's pretty amazing. I don't think I'll be
moving there, but if the right opportunity came along, I could definitely
see myself living there.

One of the things talked about saving energy is just that, put people in
cities. Going back even pre 1950 there were less suburbs and less need
for automobiles. We walked to shopping and most everything we needed.
Now we build McMansions.


One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

I've wondered about the same things, where you just swap out the battery
pack or you drop off one car and take another.


Better batteries and standard sizing would make that a good method. If
car makers all used the same packs it would be much simpler and
economical to do it. Could heppen.

On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 10:56:19 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:09:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 5, 2020 at 10:34:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
I couldn't live like that. It looks like a cell block.

Fortunately that is only some sections of the city, I never did live
that tight. I did live with my grandmother for a few years. Her street
was very wide and a very wide sidewalk. Parking was still difficult
though as there were more cars than houses. It was not unusual to be a
half bock or more away. No way could you run a cord to a car either.

You can have community charging stations but you can imagine the fights
when a dozen people need a charge. When it snows, people will dig out
in front of their house and there have been killings when people tried
to use those spots.



I grew up in a small city of about 20,000 and lived out in the country
for the last 40 years. Never have been to the large cities like New
York where from what I have heard that a thousand or so people live in
one building. I just can not get it in my head if any of those even own
a car.

For me, it is nothing to hop in a car and drive 20 miles to see a
friend, or even take a trip to a city 100 miles away. Just do not see
an electric car for me unless they get them to go 300 or so miles and
charge up in 10 minutes or less just like a regular gas station.


We're kind of at the ~300 mile range. But it also depends on
whether you need heat or AC, which decrease it. Charging is down to
an hour or 90 mins, using a supercharger, but you won't find them
most places, at least not yet. There is one here at a shopping outlet
mall. I can see an electric as a second car, but I agree there are
some big limitations if it's your only car. Like needing to go somewhere
unexpectedly and the car is low on charge or taking a long trip.
From here to Vermont to go skiing is a 5 hour, 300 mile trip.
I'd have to stop somewhere to at least top off and that just makes an
already long trip worse. People like to leave after work for a weekend,
now instead of getting there 11PM, you arrive how much later?
And you have to stop where to charge? If I have to stop, maybe I
want to go to a particular type of restaurant, not eat at Burger King
at a rest stop. Do they have fast charging at the restaurant?
Not today. But, they will likely get better range as time goes on
and just a bit more and it will be practical for even that. Meanwhile
you can buy a plug-in hybrid that solves all of the above.





One other thought for the electric cars is instead of just recharging
stations, they have car changing stations. You pull your electric car
in and switch to a freshly charged car. Another way. Maybe some kind of
quick change battery pack. One where you drive into a bay and press a
button and a crane pulls it out from the hood and puts in another .
Process to take about 5 minutes or less.

It would take a hell of a big facility to store and manage the batteries.

What about a hybrid that has a tiny gas engine that's only used to run a
generator that keeps the batteries charged as you drive? Also, put a solar
panel on the roof and make it look like the black vinyl tops that used to
be popular in the '70's.

The fact that they don't do that tells me it's a dumb idea, but I excel at
those.

As a general rule, tiny engines pollute more per horsepower than
bigger ones and watts is still watts. The tiny engine would be running
for hours after you shut off the car to bring the batteries back. On a
long trip it would be useless unless you plan on stopping a lot, for a
long time.