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Coal out -- Natural gas in
Jut got an email from my power company, Florida Power and Light,
announcing my bill will be going down. This is part of their story: Over the last decade, weve retired coal-powered plants and modernized many of our older oil-burning power plants with new natural gas-fired plants. And, were not stopping there! Weve built the Okeechobee Clean Energy Center to help meet the energy needs of Floridas growing population and expanding economy. This new energy center is one of the cleanest, most efficient facilities of its kind in the world. Plans are also underway to modernize the existing Lauderdale Plant located in Broward County with a new state-of-the-art natural gas power plant. When completed, this new facility, the FPL Dania Beach Clean Energy Center, will run on clean, U.S.-produced natural gas and generate enough energy to power approximately 250,000 homes. Using domestic natural gas instead of foreign oil to generate power is saving FPL customers billions of dollars on fuel. In fact, since 2001 customers have saved nearly $10 billion on fuel through FPLs efficient natural gas power plants. By bringing online additional efficient, cleaner power plants in the next few years, customers will continue to save money on fuel costs |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:39:54 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Jut got an email from my power company, Florida Power and Light, announcing my bill will be going down. This is part of their story: Over the last decade, weve retired coal-powered plants and modernized many of our older oil-burning power plants with new natural gas-fired plants. And, were not stopping there! Weve built the Okeechobee Clean Energy Center to help meet the energy needs of Floridas growing population and expanding economy. This new energy center is one of the cleanest, most efficient facilities of its kind in the world. Plans are also underway to modernize the existing Lauderdale Plant located in Broward County with a new state-of-the-art natural gas power plant. When completed, this new facility, the FPL Dania Beach Clean Energy Center, will run on clean, U.S.-produced natural gas and generate enough energy to power approximately 250,000 homes. Using domestic natural gas instead of foreign oil to generate power is saving FPL customers billions of dollars on fuel. In fact, since 2001 customers have saved nearly $10 billion on fuel through FPLs efficient natural gas power plants. By bringing online additional efficient, cleaner power plants in the next few years, customers will continue to save money on fuel costs I have been pretty happy with FPL and I can't complain about my bills. The Ft Myers plant went off bunker oil over 2 decades ago. The only bad news is they have to artificially heat the discharge water for the manatees because the gas plant is so efficient the water isn't warm enough for them in the winter. I guess the manatee lovers are hoping for more global warming to expand their range. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
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Coal out -- Natural gas in
On 1/20/2020 2:00 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/20/2020 1:12 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/20/2020 12:55 PM, wrote: I have been pretty happy with FPL and I can't complain about my bills. The Ft Myers plant went off bunker oil over 2 decades ago. The only bad news is they have to artificially heat the discharge water for the manatees because the gas plant is so efficient the water isn't warm enough for them in the winter. I guess the manatee lovers are hoping for more global warming to expand their range. I'm very happy with them.Â* When I lived in CT the rates were effectively .21 kWhr.Â* Here for the year I used more electricity but paid $900 less. You guys are lucky.Â* Ours keeps going up.Â* DE got flim flammed by Bloom Engineering to have them build and use fuel cells using natural gas fuel and of course cost of power went up and jobs did not materialize.Â* Using natural gas as a turbine fuel is cheaper and more efficient.Â* State also got flim flammed into pumping money into offshore windmills that never got built. In CT and MA they allowed you to choose your electric supplier (for generation) and competition would save you a lot of money. Sounds good, freedom of choice! First year I saved about $60, second year $30, by fourth year is was more expensive and if you were not careful, very expensive. Middlemen made a bunch of money though. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:49:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/20/2020 2:00 PM, Frank wrote: On 1/20/2020 1:12 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 1/20/2020 12:55 PM, wrote: I have been pretty happy with FPL and I can't complain about my bills. The Ft Myers plant went off bunker oil over 2 decades ago. The only bad news is they have to artificially heat the discharge water for the manatees because the gas plant is so efficient the water isn't warm enough for them in the winter. I guess the manatee lovers are hoping for more global warming to expand their range. I'm very happy with them.* When I lived in CT the rates were effectively .21 kWhr.* Here for the year I used more electricity but paid $900 less. You guys are lucky.* Ours keeps going up.* DE got flim flammed by Bloom Engineering to have them build and use fuel cells using natural gas fuel and of course cost of power went up and jobs did not materialize.* Using natural gas as a turbine fuel is cheaper and more efficient.* State also got flim flammed into pumping money into offshore windmills that never got built. In CT and MA they allowed you to choose your electric supplier (for generation) and competition would save you a lot of money. Sounds good, freedom of choice! First year I saved about $60, second year $30, by fourth year is was more expensive and if you were not careful, very expensive. Middlemen made a bunch of money though. Same with deregulation up here in Ontario. Sure, you can BUY your rlectricity and natural gas from anyone you choose - and have it delivered on OPG lines through, in my case, Waterloo North Hydro distribution system for elrctricity and Embridge (formerly union gas) for gas. Always on a "fixed price" contract which for at least the last 20 years has NEVER been cheaper over the long term than spot price through the primary supplier. Someone's making a tidy profit. Kitchener utilities was hedging their bets, buying contracts on gas - and Kitchener residents payed significantly more than Waterloo, where we bought directly from Union Gas (now Embridge) |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
Same with deregulation up here in Ontario. Sure, you can BUY your rlectricity and natural gas from anyone you choose - and have it delivered on OPG lines through, in my case, Waterloo North Hydro distribution system for elrctricity and Embridge (formerly union gas) for gas. Always on a "fixed price" contract which for at least the last 20 years has NEVER been cheaper over the long term than spot price through the primary supplier. Someone's making a tidy profit. Kitchener utilities was hedging their bets, buying contracts on gas - and Kitchener residents payed significantly more than Waterloo, where we bought directly from Union Gas (now Embridge) Clare - I'll happily buy you a Schmidtsville breakfast - if that's what it takes to set you straight on this ! :-) I can't speak for gas - but for electricity - it isn't the energy price - it's the delivery price - that is the problem .. ... OPG does not retail or deliver electricity - HydroOne delivers electricity... wholesale and retail .. ... and they are no longer included in the SunShine List - ... duh . Ontario - Quebec - Manitoba - public power systems - ... Provencial Public Utilities - along with TVA . we were historically the very best in North America . ... now look at us. I think Manitoba and Quebec are OK ... John T. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
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Coal out -- Natural gas in
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Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 21:04:57 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 20:23:12 -0500, wrote: Same with deregulation up here in Ontario. Sure, you can BUY your rlectricity and natural gas from anyone you choose - and have it delivered on OPG lines through, in my case, Waterloo North Hydro distribution system for elrctricity and Embridge (formerly union gas) for gas. Always on a "fixed price" contract which for at least the last 20 years has NEVER been cheaper over the long term than spot price through the primary supplier. Someone's making a tidy profit. Kitchener utilities was hedging their bets, buying contracts on gas - and Kitchener residents payed significantly more than Waterloo, where we bought directly from Union Gas (now Embridge) Clare - I'll happily buy you a Schmidtsville breakfast - if that's what it takes to set you straight on this ! :-) I can't speak for gas - but for electricity - it isn't the energy price - it's the delivery price - that is the problem .. .. OPG does not retail or deliver electricity - HydroOne delivers electricity... wholesale and retail .. .. and they are no longer included in the SunShine List - ... duh . Ontario - Quebec - Manitoba - public power systems - .. Provencial Public Utilities - along with TVA . we were historically the very best in North America . ... now look at us. I think Manitoba and Quebec are OK ... John T. You will agree that "deregulation" was a terrible boondoggle? Yes, I mixed up OPG and Hydro One. Back when it was Ontario Hydro it was top-heavy, but when they split it to OPG and Hydro One there were TWO top-heavy overpriced bureaucracies instead of one. The delivery price is the same regardless who you buy the power from - or through - but it IS a significant portion of the total bill. Might take you up on the schmidtsville breakfast for a jawfest sometime though - - - dutch. If you call Ontario Hydro top heavy - - Maurice Strong in the 1980's was called to task for his salary - he voluntarily reduced it to $ 1. ... from $ 400,000, .. that's for the whole Province. ... after "privatisation" and sell-offs - the several ensuing companies jacked-up salaries ~ many fold. and $ 400. k became a mid-management pay scale - for the several split-companies - .... with no over sight or SunShine List. Check out Ontario power & delivery rates compared to Quebec & Manitoba .. A few years ago - my daughter, in Quebec, installed an electric furnace ! .. not too many sold in Ontario lately. John T. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 19:51:42 -0700, rbowman
wrote: On 01/20/2020 10:55 AM, wrote: I have been pretty happy with FPL and I can't complain about my bills. The Ft Myers plant went off bunker oil over 2 decades ago. The only bad news is they have to artificially heat the discharge water for the manatees because the gas plant is so efficient the water isn't warm enough for them in the winter. The Seabrook nuke was controversial and one of the point of discussion was the discharge of cooling water a mile offshore. PSNH said the lobsters would love it. Maybe they were on to something. The endangered species act has gone off the rails down here in South Florida. The manatees are thriving but they have outgrown their habitat, same with the "Florida Panther", basically the same Cougars they have in Texas and the Mountain Lions you have out there. In fact they brought a bunch of Texas Cougars here to pump up the DNA pool but that just demonstrated there isn't any such thing as a Florida Panther. It is just a few Georgia Cougars that got cut off when we developed central Florida. Now we have hundreds and nowhere near enough wild country to support the population so they are moving into urban areas where they get hit by cars. "Oh no, we are killing endangered species". They aren't endangered and the population is thriving, within the limits of the available environment. I would say the same thing about the Manatee. The population we have needs to be near the power plant all winter or they will die of cold stress. (water temps 68-69 degrees). The problem is the power plant here is on the Okeechobee water way, the main east west route across Florida and prime time for boat traffic is the winter, when the manatee are there. Guess what? Manatees are getting hit. It is like putting a salt lick in the median of I-75 and wondering why the deer are getting hit by cars. They are also starving because there are so many they have eaten every blade of grass in the river within swimming distance until the cold water gets them. Populations are at record high levels and they still say boats are the real danger. The real danger is they have more manatee than the environment can support. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
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Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 23:17:57 -0700, rbowman
wrote: On 01/20/2020 08:18 PM, wrote: I would say the same thing about the Manatee. The population we have needs to be near the power plant all winter or they will die of cold stress. (water temps 68-69 degrees). What did they do before the power plants? Head south for the winter? They went south or they died and created the fossils that prove they died here. We don't really have a clue how many we are really talking about tho. It is enough to get people to say they are "native". I am sure we have a historically high number of them now. There is also lots of evidence that there were quite a number that were brought here in the 20th century to eat water hyacinth |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:39:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Jut got an email from my power company, Florida Power and Light, announcing my bill will be going down. This is part of their story: Over the last decade, weve retired coal-powered plants and modernized many of our older oil-burning power plants with new natural gas-fired plants. And, were not stopping there! Weve built the Okeechobee Clean Energy Center to help meet the energy needs of Floridas growing population and expanding economy. This new energy center is one of the cleanest, most efficient facilities of its kind in the world. Plans are also underway to modernize the existing Lauderdale Plant located in Broward County with a new state-of-the-art natural gas power plant. When completed, this new facility, the FPL Dania Beach Clean Energy Center, will run on clean, U.S.-produced natural gas and generate enough energy to power approximately 250,000 homes. Using domestic natural gas instead of foreign oil to generate power is saving FPL customers billions of dollars on fuel. In fact, since 2001 customers have saved nearly $10 billion on fuel through FPLs efficient natural gas power plants. By bringing online additional efficient, cleaner power plants in the next few years, customers will continue to save money on fuel costs No, no, no. That is all wrong. They should be burning more coal. Clean, beautiful coal. Dear Leader says so, he knows best, he's a very stable genius. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 06:48:49 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:39:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Jut got an email from my power company, Florida Power and Light, announcing my bill will be going down. This is part of their story: Over the last decade, weve retired coal-powered plants and modernized many of our older oil-burning power plants with new natural gas-fired plants. And, were not stopping there! Weve built the Okeechobee Clean Energy Center to help meet the energy needs of Floridas growing population and expanding economy. This new energy center is one of the cleanest, most efficient facilities of its kind in the world. Plans are also underway to modernize the existing Lauderdale Plant located in Broward County with a new state-of-the-art natural gas power plant. When completed, this new facility, the FPL Dania Beach Clean Energy Center, will run on clean, U.S.-produced natural gas and generate enough energy to power approximately 250,000 homes. Using domestic natural gas instead of foreign oil to generate power is saving FPL customers billions of dollars on fuel. In fact, since 2001 customers have saved nearly $10 billion on fuel through FPLs efficient natural gas power plants. By bringing online additional efficient, cleaner power plants in the next few years, customers will continue to save money on fuel costs No, no, no. That is all wrong. They should be burning more coal. Clean, beautiful coal. Dear Leader says so, he knows best, he's a very stable genius. Have you ever heard me agree with him on coal? That old knee of yours is still jerking. He is just channeling that idiot Jimmy Carter who bragged about coal saving us all the time after he and Nixon screwed up our middle east policy to the point that we were sitting in gas lines and people were worried that the couldn't heat their homes. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
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Coal out -- Natural gas in
On 1/21/20 9:48 AM, trader_4 wrote:
No, no, no. That is all wrong. They should be burning more coal. Clean, beautiful coal. Dear Leader says so, he knows best, he's a very stable genius. But the leftards want to ban fracking. I guess we'll need to fire up the coal plants on those cold nights when America's solar panels are sleeping. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On 1/21/2020 1:17 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/20/2020 08:18 PM, wrote: I would say the same thing about the Manatee. The population we have needs to be near the power plant all winter or they will die of cold stress. (water temps 68-69 degrees). What did they do before the power plants? Head south for the winter? They still do that now. |
Coal out -- Natural gas in
On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 14:36:35 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:
On 1/21/2020 1:17 AM, rbowman wrote: On 01/20/2020 08:18 PM, wrote: I would say the same thing about the Manatee. The population we have needs to be near the power plant all winter or they will die of cold stress. (water temps 68-69 degrees). What did they do before the power plants? Head south for the winter? They still do that now. Not really, they just head up to the power plant. Manatee are 15-20 generations away from remembering about migration south, if they ever knew in the first place. It is clear now that they are not leaving the bays and moving up to the power plants until the last minute and that is far too late to actually get far enough south to find warm water. Most of the natural springs in south Florida that used to give them some relief have dried up from overuse of water by the millions of new residents. |
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