Utility shed situation
 

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:00:36 AM UTC-5, Davej wrote:
I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design.

IDK what that means. Are you saying the AC winds up inside the shed?



The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house.

I doubt you have an issue there. As long as it's not attached to the
house and is clearly a shed, then it's a shed. Do you need a permit
for a shed? If not, they won't even know until it's time to reappraise
the property and I doubt any appraiser is going to care.



The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

Utility shed situation
 

On 11/6/2019 11:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:00:36 AM UTC-5, Davej wrote:
I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design.

IDK what that means. Are you saying the AC winds up inside the shed?



The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house.

I doubt you have an issue there. As long as it's not attached to the
house and is clearly a shed, then it's a shed. Do you need a permit
for a shed? If not, they won't even know until it's time to reappraise
the property and I doubt any appraiser is going to care.



The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.


County here requires permit for 220 sq. ft. shed. They are a PITA with
aggressive inspectors going around.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

Utility shed situation
 

County here requires permit for 220 sq. ft. shed. They are a PITA with
aggressive inspectors going around.


Are you sure that it's not 120 sq. ft. ?
Our town is 108 sq. ft. ie 9 x 12
John T.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 12:36:00 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.
Don't know about where you live, but here in Waterloo Ontario
anything under 108 sq ft outside wall dimensions that does not have
any plumbing does not require a permit IF it is "free standing". This
means NO connection to the main building. No pool filtes, no water
lines -. There is no limit to the size of the roof as long as there
are no "external" roof supports.

It cannot be located within 2.5 meters - or 8' 2om the main structure
of any adjacent main buiulding (on other lots) and must adhere to
minimum setbacks the same as any other building, It can be up to 13' 1
1/2" tall but the base cannot be more than 2 inches above ground AT
ANY POINT. and cannot cover more than 10% of the total lot area.

If the sioll plate of the "shed" is fastened to the house in any way
you need a permit.

Utility shed situation
 

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

How big is it planned to be.

Paint "SHED" on the door.

Maybe later you can paint over it.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 3:13:08 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 12:36:00 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.
Don't know about where you live, but here in Waterloo Ontario
anything under 108 sq ft outside wall dimensions that does not have
any plumbing does not require a permit IF it is "free standing". This
means NO connection to the main building. No pool filtes, no water
lines -. There is no limit to the size of the roof as long as there
are no "external" roof supports.

It cannot be located within 2.5 meters - or 8' 2om the main structure
of any adjacent main buiulding (on other lots) and must adhere to
minimum setbacks the same as any other building, It can be up to 13' 1
1/2" tall but the base cannot be more than 2 inches above ground AT
ANY POINT. and cannot cover more than 10% of the total lot area.

If the sioll plate of the "shed" is fastened to the house in any way
you need a permit.

Well, that's good to know, in case he decides to move the house and shed
to Canada.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej wrote:

Any thoughts? Thanks.

My brother figured out a loophole around the 120 square foot rule to build
a garden shed for all his stuff. He built one about 50 feet feet tall, with
ladders & pulleys for the upper 3 or 4 levels.

The city updated their by-laws afterwards to add a height restriction.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

Utility shed situation
 

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:12:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

I guess the 25 ft range puts many already existing receptacles within
range. And would "accessible" include ones that are inside the house
that you can reach by opening a window? I know when I replaced mine
here ten years ago, it was inspected, there was no visible outdoor
receptacle by the AC and the inspector never said a word or checked
where the nearest one was. I've never
noticed ones right next to other ACs here either, but then there frequently
are outdoor receptacles someplace within extension cord reach. IMO,
this reqpt makes no sense. It would make more sense to require at least
one outdoor receptacle on each side of a home, or for every 25 ft of
perimeter, etc. You're far more likely to need those for safe use of
all kinds of things, eg power washing, electric leaf blowers or mowers,
paint sprayers, etc., than for the need of power to service the AC.

Utility shed situation
 

On 11/7/2019 9:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:12:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

I guess the 25 ft range puts many already existing receptacles within
range. And would "accessible" include ones that are inside the house
that you can reach by opening a window? I know when I replaced mine
here ten years ago, it was inspected, there was no visible outdoor
receptacle by the AC and the inspector never said a word or checked
where the nearest one was. I've never
noticed ones right next to other ACs here either, but then there frequently
are outdoor receptacles someplace within extension cord reach. IMO,
this reqpt makes no sense. It would make more sense to require at least
one outdoor receptacle on each side of a home, or for every 25 ft of
perimeter, etc. You're far more likely to need those for safe use of
all kinds of things, eg power washing, electric leaf blowers or mowers,
paint sprayers, etc., than for the need of power to service the AC.


I have five outdoor receptacles. One is about 12' from the AC and in a
spot where it otherwise would probably never be used. Note though, I
did say "probably" but if you need to use a tool on that side it would
be handy. I thought the builder was just being a nice guy putting one
there.

Utility shed situation
 

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 10:33:33 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/7/2019 9:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:12:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

I guess the 25 ft range puts many already existing receptacles within
range. And would "accessible" include ones that are inside the house
that you can reach by opening a window? I know when I replaced mine
here ten years ago, it was inspected, there was no visible outdoor
receptacle by the AC and the inspector never said a word or checked
where the nearest one was. I've never
noticed ones right next to other ACs here either, but then there frequently
are outdoor receptacles someplace within extension cord reach. IMO,
this reqpt makes no sense. It would make more sense to require at least
one outdoor receptacle on each side of a home, or for every 25 ft of
perimeter, etc. You're far more likely to need those for safe use of
all kinds of things, eg power washing, electric leaf blowers or mowers,
paint sprayers, etc., than for the need of power to service the AC.


I have five outdoor receptacles. One is about 12' from the AC and in a
spot where it otherwise would probably never be used. Note though, I
did say "probably" but if you need to use a tool on that side it would
be handy. I thought the builder was just being a nice guy putting one
there.

I have two on the front, maybe 20 ft apart, on the outside of the garage.
In back, there is one located about one third of the way along the length.
That one is within 25 ft of the AC, around a corner. Prior to changing
the AC ten years ago, that one was within about ten feet of the AC.
The new one, I moved it around the corner, so it's on the far, north end
of the house, instead of being on the side that faces the backyard. Also
where it was, it was right outside the den where we watch TV. Now it's
outside a bathroom. Before it was noisy, now you can barely hear it.
But like I said, there is no receptacle near the AC and the inspector
passed it, never looked for one. The old one is probably within 25 ft
of the new location though. There really should be a reqt for outdoor
receptacles every X feet. The power availability thing isn't just limited
to AC work, that's one of the most infrequent uses of outdoor power.

Utility shed situation
 

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 2:13:08 PM UTC-6, Clare Snyder wrote:
[...]
Don't know about where you live, but here in Waterloo Ontario
anything under 108 sq ft outside wall dimensions that does not have
any plumbing does not require a permit IF it is "free standing". This
means NO connection to the main building. No pool filtes, no water
lines -. There is no limit to the size of the roof as long as there
are no "external" roof supports.

It cannot be located within 2.5 meters - or 8' 2om the main structure
of any adjacent main building (on other lots) and must adhere to
minimum setbacks the same as any other building, It can be up to 13' 1
1/2" tall but the base cannot be more than 2 inches above ground AT
ANY POINT. and cannot cover more than 10% of the total lot area.

If the sill plate of the "shed" is fastened to the house in any way
you need a permit.

I don't see any restriction regarding distance from main structure,
however 120 sqft and 10 ft eve height is the limit to avoid a permit.
Under 400 sqft seems to have relaxed permit requirements. Over 400
sqft requires a detached garage permit. I think I want about 220 sqft.
I think I will need to call the county and ask them about the basic
requirements that a 220 sqft shed would need to meet.

Utility shed situation
 

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 06:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:12:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

I guess the 25 ft range puts many already existing receptacles within
range. And would "accessible" include ones that are inside the house
that you can reach by opening a window?

Short answer, no. If it is through a door or window, it is not
"accessible".

I know when I replaced mine
here ten years ago, it was inspected, there was no visible outdoor
receptacle by the AC and the inspector never said a word or checked
where the nearest one was. I've never
noticed ones right next to other ACs here either, but then there frequently
are outdoor receptacles someplace within extension cord reach. IMO,
this reqpt makes no sense. It would make more sense to require at least
one outdoor receptacle on each side of a home, or for every 25 ft of
perimeter, etc. You're far more likely to need those for safe use of
all kinds of things, eg power washing, electric leaf blowers or mowers,
paint sprayers, etc., than for the need of power to service the AC.

The main use for the receptacle is the evacuation pump. There is a
rule requiring one on both sides of the house already. One on an
elevated deck only counts if you can get there from grade.

Utility shed situation
 

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 12:29:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 06:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:12:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

I guess the 25 ft range puts many already existing receptacles within
range. And would "accessible" include ones that are inside the house
that you can reach by opening a window?

Short answer, no. If it is through a door or window, it is not
"accessible".

Funny, junction boxes are allowed in attics because they are accessible
and in most cases that takes a ladder to open a scuttle door to climb
in. I guess the definition of accessible changes. Having to open a
window for an extension cord to service an AC seems accessible to me.
Where mine is you'd only need a ten foot extension cord to reach the
bathroom receptacle. I guess there is the valid issue that if you use
any inside receptacle, most are not GFCI. But then, like I said, what
the code really should specify is that you need an outside receptacle
for every 25 or 35 feet of perimeter. I've run extension cords through
the window for power washers and similar orders of magnitude more often
than needing the AC evacuated. And doing that has the no GFCI problem.
Maybe we should suggest this for the next code update.






I know when I replaced mine
here ten years ago, it was inspected, there was no visible outdoor
receptacle by the AC and the inspector never said a word or checked
where the nearest one was. I've never
noticed ones right next to other ACs here either, but then there frequently
are outdoor receptacles someplace within extension cord reach. IMO,
this reqpt makes no sense. It would make more sense to require at least
one outdoor receptacle on each side of a home, or for every 25 ft of
perimeter, etc. You're far more likely to need those for safe use of
all kinds of things, eg power washing, electric leaf blowers or mowers,
paint sprayers, etc., than for the need of power to service the AC.

The main use for the receptacle is the evacuation pump. There is a
rule requiring one on both sides of the house already. One on an
elevated deck only counts if you can get there from grade.

Which gets used about once every 20 years. Seems quite ridiculous to me,
when receptacles are all over a house and extension cords work.

Utility shed situation
 

On 11/6/19 9:00 AM, Davej wrote:
I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

Suppose you buy a pre made one?

Utility shed situation
 

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 11:17:37 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 12:29:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 06:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:12:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

I guess the 25 ft range puts many already existing receptacles within
range. And would "accessible" include ones that are inside the house
that you can reach by opening a window?

Short answer, no. If it is through a door or window, it is not
"accessible".

Funny, junction boxes are allowed in attics because they are accessible
and in most cases that takes a ladder to open a scuttle door to climb
in. I guess the definition of accessible changes. Having to open a
window for an extension cord to service an AC seems accessible to me.
Where mine is you'd only need a ten foot extension cord to reach the
bathroom receptacle. I guess there is the valid issue that if you use
any inside receptacle, most are not GFCI. But then, like I said, what
the code really should specify is that you need an outside receptacle
for every 25 or 35 feet of perimeter. I've run extension cords through
the window for power washers and similar orders of magnitude more often
than needing the AC evacuated. And doing that has the no GFCI problem.
Maybe we should suggest this for the next code update.


"Accessible" vs "readily accessible" do have meanings in the code but
in this case it might have just been the colloquial use of the word.
They really try to avoid running cords through or across doorways
throughout the code, hence interior spacing of receptacles in
dwellings. Windows also provide a problem because of screens and such.
As for more outside receptacles, that gets visited every few cycles
and they seem to add one more. I do think 25-35 feet might be
excessive since a somewhat standard length "orange cord" is 50.

Some of this becomes a "design" issue that is specifically not
addressed in the code. At my house you are never more than 50 feet
from power or water anywhere on the property but I may be a little OCD
about it. Having the whole back yard torn up for the pool made running
pipe easy tho and pipe is cheap. ;-)
There is about a half mile of THHN/THWN out there, either up in the
screen cage or underground.






I know when I replaced mine
here ten years ago, it was inspected, there was no visible outdoor
receptacle by the AC and the inspector never said a word or checked
where the nearest one was. I've never
noticed ones right next to other ACs here either, but then there frequently
are outdoor receptacles someplace within extension cord reach. IMO,
this reqpt makes no sense. It would make more sense to require at least
one outdoor receptacle on each side of a home, or for every 25 ft of
perimeter, etc. You're far more likely to need those for safe use of
all kinds of things, eg power washing, electric leaf blowers or mowers,
paint sprayers, etc., than for the need of power to service the AC.

The main use for the receptacle is the evacuation pump. There is a
rule requiring one on both sides of the house already. One on an
elevated deck only counts if you can get there from grade.

Which gets used about once every 20 years. Seems quite ridiculous to me,
when receptacles are all over a house and extension cords work.

Just consider it one more towards your goal of one every 35 feet ;-)

I end up using the one by the HVAC a lot because it is one of two on
that end of the house. It was also handy for my neighbor when her
power was out after Charley and I had power. Both of those are on
dedicated 20s so I could get her enough power with a few cords to run
the window shaker in her bedroom, the well, some lights, TV and the
fridge. That is almost as much as I get out of my 5KW generator.

Utility shed situation
 

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Utility shed situation
 

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?
If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

Utility shed situation
 

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Utility shed situation
 

In article ,
says...
To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If you get a company like the "One Hour Heating and Air" like I did, it
does not matter.

That shyster company charged me about $ 350 just to replace the motor
capacitor. Took the man (who was very good) about 5 min to find the
problem , 10 min to replace the capacitor counting the time to walk back
to his truck and button the unit up.

It was not the service man as he showed me a list of standard billings
for the company.

I would not have thought much of it if the bill had been around $ 150.
Figure the $ 100 for a standard call and $ 50 allowing for atleast
doubling their cost of the cpacitor.

Seems they are part of another company that wanted $ 1800 to replace my
electric water heater. I told the man that came out, "no thanks". He
called the company and they said $ 1300. Again , no sale.

Another small company replaced it for $ 900.
Labor was $ 200 for 2 men for about 2 hours of work and the other was
for the cost of the heater and pumbing parts. Seemed fair to me.


I don't mind a man making a fair living, but I hate getting ripped off.

Utility shed situation
 

On 11/8/2019 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If you get a company like the "One Hour Heating and Air" like I did, it
does not matter.

That shyster company charged me about $ 350 just to replace the motor
capacitor. Took the man (who was very good) about 5 min to find the
problem , 10 min to replace the capacitor counting the time to walk back
to his truck and button the unit up.

It was not the service man as he showed me a list of standard billings
for the company.

I would not have thought much of it if the bill had been around $ 150.
Figure the $ 100 for a standard call and $ 50 allowing for atleast
doubling their cost of the cpacitor.


Here in FL there are many AC service companies advertising on TV.
Scary, actually. I have to wonder if they have a different price sheet
depending on the temperature. On a really hot day people just want the
AC running.

Utility shed situation
 

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If you get a company like the "One Hour Heating and Air" like I did, it
does not matter.

That shyster company charged me about $ 350 just to replace the motor
capacitor. Took the man (who was very good) about 5 min to find the
problem , 10 min to replace the capacitor counting the time to walk back
to his truck and button the unit up.

It was not the service man as he showed me a list of standard billings
for the company.

I would not have thought much of it if the bill had been around $ 150.
Figure the $ 100 for a standard call and $ 50 allowing for atleast
doubling their cost of the cpacitor.


Here in FL there are many AC service companies advertising on TV.
Scary, actually. I have to wonder if they have a different price sheet
depending on the temperature. On a really hot day people just want the
AC running.

There was one of those TV shows that busts crooks on some years ago where
they called out AC companies to fix an AC that had a minor problem.
I think it was a blown fuse or disconnected contactor wire. They had
previously called out a reputable company to check it out, make sure
everything else was OK and stage it. Out of three AC companies they
showed, only one was honest. That guy didn't even want to get paid for
the call, which, IMO, is nuts. The other two said there were big problems,
might as well get a new system. It is really bad, because most homeowners
have no way of knowing if they are being told BS or not.

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 08:10:29 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If you get a company like the "One Hour Heating and Air" like I did, it
does not matter.

That shyster company charged me about $ 350 just to replace the motor
capacitor. Took the man (who was very good) about 5 min to find the
problem , 10 min to replace the capacitor counting the time to walk back
to his truck and button the unit up.

It was not the service man as he showed me a list of standard billings
for the company.

I would not have thought much of it if the bill had been around $ 150.
Figure the $ 100 for a standard call and $ 50 allowing for atleast
doubling their cost of the cpacitor.


Here in FL there are many AC service companies advertising on TV.
Scary, actually. I have to wonder if they have a different price sheet
depending on the temperature. On a really hot day people just want the
AC running.

There was one of those TV shows that busts crooks on some years ago where
they called out AC companies to fix an AC that had a minor problem.
I think it was a blown fuse or disconnected contactor wire. They had
previously called out a reputable company to check it out, make sure
everything else was OK and stage it. Out of three AC companies they
showed, only one was honest. That guy didn't even want to get paid for
the call, which, IMO, is nuts. The other two said there were big problems,
might as well get a new system. It is really bad, because most homeowners
have no way of knowing if they are being told BS or not.

A lot of HVAC companies pay techs the same commission on the sale of a
system as the salesman. They have an incentive to sell a system. I
suppose it could be argued that replacing an old one with a newer high
SEER machine is saving the customer money in the long run but it
should be a sale based on that, not a scare tactic, or worse, an ice
pick. (I found your problem, you have a leak and the law will not
allow me to recharge a leaking system).
My wife sold HVAC but she didn't have a problem telling someone they
didn't need one. They also sold a bunch of them because they had a
good price, generally better than the high pressure guys.

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.

Utility shed situation
 

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home
or giving him access to the house?



If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.



"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"


Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar,
eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off
my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:14:53 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.
A LOT of HVAC guys carry a small generator with them in the truck.
They are "self sufficient" just like a lot of roofers who use gas
powered compressors so they don't need to access customer power.

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 10:14:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home
or giving him access to the house?


Somebody being home is not the same as somebody who can remove a
screen. Some are easy, some require taking out rusty screws and clips.
Lots can go wrong there.

If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.



"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"


Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar,
eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off
my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!



I don't understand way a guy who advocates a receptacle every 30 feet
along the outside wall is so adamant against this one. Sometimes I
just think you like to argue.

Write a proposal and see what CMP 2 says. They will give you an answer
no matter how dumb they think a proposal is.

BTW my old buddy Harold Endean from Montville New Jersey explained why
dropping a cord out the window is a bad idea in his 2002 proposal.

"No GFCI protection".

The requirement for a receptacle in attics, crawl spaces and
commercial rooftops has been in article 210 since the GHWB
administration. All HVAC condensers came in 2002 with a total rewrite
of 210-63.

Utility shed situation
 

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 5:19:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 10:14:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home
or giving him access to the house?


Somebody being home is not the same as somebody who can remove a
screen. Some are easy, some require taking out rusty screws and clips.
Lots can go wrong there.

If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.



"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"


Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar,
eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off
my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!



I don't understand way a guy who advocates a receptacle every 30 feet
along the outside wall is so adamant against this one. Sometimes I
just think you like to argue.

I like to argue? All I said was that if the issue is having electric
receptacles available for the very rare occasion when an AC guy needs
it to run a vacuum pump, then it would make more sense to require
receptacles outdoors every 25 feet or so, because of the outdoor uses
of electricity, the AC guy thing happens maybe every 10 or 20 years.
On the other hand, people use leaf blowers, power washers, electric
lawn mowers, paint sprayers, saws, Xmas lights, etc far more often.
That didn't seem argumentative or unreasonable and apparently it wasn't
to anyone but you.





Write a proposal and see what CMP 2 says. They will give you an answer
no matter how dumb they think a proposal is.

BTW my old buddy Harold Endean from Montville New Jersey explained why
dropping a cord out the window is a bad idea in his 2002 proposal.

"No GFCI protection".

If you read what I posted you'd see that I said
exactly that many posts ago. Which again is why it would make
more sense to require outdoor receptacles every X feet, instead of
worrying about the AC guy and forget all the rest of the uses where
people are running it out a window with no GFCI.

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 16:39:35 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:14:53 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.
A LOT of HVAC guys carry a small generator with them in the truck.
They are "self sufficient" just like a lot of roofers who use gas
powered compressors so they don't need to access customer power.

I have never seen that but Florida is pretty serious about the
receptacle requirement. It would occur to me that if they just had a
100' extension cord (or a couple of 50s) they should be able to get to
120v just about anywhere.

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 15:23:15 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 5:19:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 10:14:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home
or giving him access to the house?


Somebody being home is not the same as somebody who can remove a
screen. Some are easy, some require taking out rusty screws and clips.
Lots can go wrong there.

If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.



"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"


Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar,
eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off
my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!



I don't understand way a guy who advocates a receptacle every 30 feet
along the outside wall is so adamant against this one. Sometimes I
just think you like to argue.

I like to argue? All I said was that if the issue is having electric
receptacles available for the very rare occasion when an AC guy needs
it to run a vacuum pump, then it would make more sense to require
receptacles outdoors every 25 feet or so, because of the outdoor uses
of electricity, the AC guy thing happens maybe every 10 or 20 years.
On the other hand, people use leaf blowers, power washers, electric
lawn mowers, paint sprayers, saws, Xmas lights, etc far more often.
That didn't seem argumentative or unreasonable and apparently it wasn't
to anyone but you.





Write a proposal and see what CMP 2 says. They will give you an answer
no matter how dumb they think a proposal is.

BTW my old buddy Harold Endean from Montville New Jersey explained why
dropping a cord out the window is a bad idea in his 2002 proposal.

"No GFCI protection".

If you read what I posted you'd see that I said
exactly that many posts ago. Which again is why it would make
more sense to require outdoor receptacles every X feet, instead of
worrying about the AC guy and forget all the rest of the uses where
people are running it out a window with no GFCI.



The NEC moves incrementally. The requirement for a receptacles in
attics and crawl spaces long predated the universal requirement, all
they did was remove the words attic and crawl space.
Most NEC changes are simply adding or deleting a word here and there.
Occasionally they do a total rewrite but that is usually to clean up
the language from those incremental changes. That outside receptacle
thing is evolving too. I doubt it will ever be every 30 feet but the
next step may be all 4 sides instead of just front and back. That may
only mean one more tho if the AC unit is on one side.


BTW the "No GFCI" is what killed the "out the window" thing.

Utility shed situation
 

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 23:14:29 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 15:23:15 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 5:19:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 10:14:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home
or giving him access to the house?


Somebody being home is not the same as somebody who can remove a
screen. Some are easy, some require taking out rusty screws and clips.
Lots can go wrong there.

If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.



"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"


Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar,
eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off
my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!



I don't understand way a guy who advocates a receptacle every 30 feet
along the outside wall is so adamant against this one. Sometimes I
just think you like to argue.

I like to argue? All I said was that if the issue is having electric
receptacles available for the very rare occasion when an AC guy needs
it to run a vacuum pump, then it would make more sense to require
receptacles outdoors every 25 feet or so, because of the outdoor uses
of electricity, the AC guy thing happens maybe every 10 or 20 years.
On the other hand, people use leaf blowers, power washers, electric
lawn mowers, paint sprayers, saws, Xmas lights, etc far more often.
That didn't seem argumentative or unreasonable and apparently it wasn't
to anyone but you.





Write a proposal and see what CMP 2 says. They will give you an answer
no matter how dumb they think a proposal is.

BTW my old buddy Harold Endean from Montville New Jersey explained why
dropping a cord out the window is a bad idea in his 2002 proposal.

"No GFCI protection".

If you read what I posted you'd see that I said
exactly that many posts ago. Which again is why it would make
more sense to require outdoor receptacles every X feet, instead of
worrying about the AC guy and forget all the rest of the uses where
people are running it out a window with no GFCI.



The NEC moves incrementally. The requirement for a receptacles in
attics and crawl spaces long predated the universal requirement, all
they did was remove the words attic and crawl space.
Most NEC changes are simply adding or deleting a word here and there.
Occasionally they do a total rewrite but that is usually to clean up
the language from those incremental changes. That outside receptacle
thing is evolving too. I doubt it will ever be every 30 feet but the
next step may be all 4 sides instead of just front and back. That may
only mean one more tho if the AC unit is on one side.


BTW the "No GFCI" is what killed the "out the window" thing.
Out the kitchen or bath window you have GFCI - by code mot basement
ouitlets as well - not???

Utility shed situation
 

On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 01:23:25 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 23:14:29 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 15:23:15 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 5:19:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 10:14:20 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 05:55:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 2:28:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:19:08 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 08:12:08 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:21:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:00:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

I am in the predicament of wanting to build a utility shed up
against the house on an inside corner where my outdoor A/C unit
is located. The area lost to the A/C unit is not significant but
obviously a lot of screened venting will need to go into the wall
design. The whole area is already a large concrete slab. Also I
am pondering how to make sure the county will accept this as a
shed and not an addition to the house. The primary purpose of the
shed will be storage of lawnmowers and garden tools/supplies. Any
thoughts? Thanks.

I would stay 3-4 feet from the A/C unit, even if that means pouring
more concrete. You certainly don't want to block air flow and you
don't want that heat in/on your shed.
As for being part of the house, usually a test is whether there is a
door going into the house from there.
The only other issue I see is storing flammable liquids on a shared
wall. If this is a sleeping room, it may not pass muster in the fire
code.
No matter what, you may still need a 1 hour rated wall. (YMMV)
These are the kinds of things I would worry about.

If the A/C was installed in this century there should be a GFCI
protected receptacle next to the condenser so you could tap off that
for a light and maybe a receptacle for a battery charger or something.

That receptacle by the AC must be a local thing. I don't see it up
here.

It has been in the NEC for ~18 years. (2002)

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.
Within 25 feet - I don't call that "by" the AC. Thr receptacle in my
garage is only about 6 feet too far away - and it's on the opposite
side ofthe house. Eiher the one on my front porch or the one on my
rear deck are close enought

Around here it is generally right next to the condenser and fed off
the closest circuit inside. The cost in new construction is minimal
and the HVAC guys love it.

To Trader I just ask, do you want that guy you are paying $125 an hour
to be walking around looking for a window to plug his extension cord
through? (wait for the CUSTOMER to remove the screen etc)?

They are likely to charge the same anyway. HVAC guys are among the
trades known to shyster people. Another 5 mins isn't likely to matter.




If I own the HVAC company, no way are my guys touching a window or a
screen. You get me power, I will charge your AC but the clock is
running.

And if upon showing up you said that to me, I'd say what that poster here
says all the time: Get off my lawn! If you have an issue like that right
off the bat, I don't want you working on my house. I've had the occasional
trades folk over many times, never found one that had an issue with a
place to plug in an extension cord or where to get power. Only one time
in 25 years was powered needed for the AC service. And if they need power
or water, they typically just ask where it's located.

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?

How is the AC guy going to fix the AC system without someone being home
or giving him access to the house?


Somebody being home is not the same as somebody who can remove a
screen. Some are easy, some require taking out rusty screws and clips.
Lots can go wrong there.

If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.



"I need power for my pump, where is it"?

"I'll open the bathroom window and you can hand me your extension cord"


Good grief, you sure can make simple things complicated. That or similar,
eg, where do you have a water spigot, happens all the time. Now get off
my lawn so I can get a reasonable company!



I don't understand way a guy who advocates a receptacle every 30 feet
along the outside wall is so adamant against this one. Sometimes I
just think you like to argue.

I like to argue? All I said was that if the issue is having electric
receptacles available for the very rare occasion when an AC guy needs
it to run a vacuum pump, then it would make more sense to require
receptacles outdoors every 25 feet or so, because of the outdoor uses
of electricity, the AC guy thing happens maybe every 10 or 20 years.
On the other hand, people use leaf blowers, power washers, electric
lawn mowers, paint sprayers, saws, Xmas lights, etc far more often.
That didn't seem argumentative or unreasonable and apparently it wasn't
to anyone but you.





Write a proposal and see what CMP 2 says. They will give you an answer
no matter how dumb they think a proposal is.

BTW my old buddy Harold Endean from Montville New Jersey explained why
dropping a cord out the window is a bad idea in his 2002 proposal.

"No GFCI protection".

If you read what I posted you'd see that I said
exactly that many posts ago. Which again is why it would make
more sense to require outdoor receptacles every X feet, instead of
worrying about the AC guy and forget all the rest of the uses where
people are running it out a window with no GFCI.



The NEC moves incrementally. The requirement for a receptacles in
attics and crawl spaces long predated the universal requirement, all
they did was remove the words attic and crawl space.
Most NEC changes are simply adding or deleting a word here and there.
Occasionally they do a total rewrite but that is usually to clean up
the language from those incremental changes. That outside receptacle
thing is evolving too. I doubt it will ever be every 30 feet but the
next step may be all 4 sides instead of just front and back. That may
only mean one more tho if the AC unit is on one side.


BTW the "No GFCI" is what killed the "out the window" thing.
Out the kitchen or bath window you have GFCI - by code mot basement
ouitlets as well - not???

Now you are assuming the HVAC unit is close to the kitchen or bath.

Utility shed situation
 

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.

If a guy can't trust his wife to remove a window screen, he married
the wrong woman. Every time we clean the windows I have to remind
my husband that it's a big fricking deal to remove the screens. Stupid
1980s windows. Grumble, grumble, grumble. Still, the inconvenience
is minor and the cost to replace them is high.

It's a different story, of course, if it's due to age and/or infirmity.

Cindy Hamilton

Utility shed situation
 

On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 7:42:11 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.

If a guy can't trust his wife to remove a window screen, he married
the wrong woman. Every time we clean the windows I have to remind
my husband that it's a big fricking deal to remove the screens. Stupid
1980s windows. Grumble, grumble, grumble. Still, the inconvenience
is minor and the cost to replace them is high.

It's a different story, of course, if it's due to age and/or infirmity.

Cindy Hamilton

You can't make Fretwell happy. He claims it's too difficult to run an
extension out a window. So, you say that it would be a good idea that
instead of the code focusing only on AC units, it should
require outdoor receptacles spaced so a 25 ft ext could
cover the perimeter, and then he doesn't like that and says you just
want to argue.

Utility shed situation
 

On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 8:01:46 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 7:42:11 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.

If a guy can't trust his wife to remove a window screen, he married
the wrong woman. Every time we clean the windows I have to remind
my husband that it's a big fricking deal to remove the screens. Stupid
1980s windows. Grumble, grumble, grumble. Still, the inconvenience
is minor and the cost to replace them is high.

It's a different story, of course, if it's due to age and/or infirmity.

Cindy Hamilton

You can't make Fretwell happy. He claims it's too difficult to run an
extension out a window. So, you say that it would be a good idea that
instead of the code focusing only on AC units, it should
require outdoor receptacles spaced so a 25 ft ext could
cover the perimeter, and then he doesn't like that and says you just
want to argue.

Although I admit I'd like a receptacle near the front of the house, the
two at the back are usually sufficient. When we bought the house there
was only one (and it's pretty sketchy so we don't use it much) but when
my husband installed lights over the gas grill and a GFI receptacle nearby,
he ran a home run. It's within 50 feet of the air-conditioner. That'll just
have to do.

I'd bet there was no exterior receptacle at all until the mid 1980s when
someone added a three-season porch to the back of the house. They didn't
finish the brick wall that used to be the exterior, and there are no signs
of a penetration.

We've had the electrical inspector out a few times, most recently for the
automatic standby generator. He never said boo about receptacles.

Cindy Hamilton

Utility shed situation
 

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 05:01:42 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 7:42:11 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Typical answer from someone who has never owned a business. If you
touch it you own it. If that tech screws with your screen and breaks
it, you are buying the customer a new screen. On some window systems
that might be the whole profit you expected to make on the call. It is
called "risk" and successful companies avoid risk.
For that matter, plenty of guys wouldn't trust their wife or kids to
take out the screen. Are you coming home from work to do it?
If you think it is a stupid idea, the ROP for the 2023 is open right
now. Write a proposal.

If a guy can't trust his wife to remove a window screen, he married
the wrong woman. Every time we clean the windows I have to remind
my husband that it's a big fricking deal to remove the screens. Stupid
1980s windows. Grumble, grumble, grumble. Still, the inconvenience
is minor and the cost to replace them is high.

It's a different story, of course, if it's due to age and/or infirmity.

Cindy Hamilton

You can't make Fretwell happy. He claims it's too difficult to run an
extension out a window. So, you say that it would be a good idea that
instead of the code focusing only on AC units, it should
require outdoor receptacles spaced so a 25 ft ext could
cover the perimeter, and then he doesn't like that and says you just
want to argue.

I am just talking about what CMP 2 decided. If you think they are full
of ****, write a proposal but they are going to say running cords out
of windows from a circuit that may not be GFCI is not acceptable.

Utility shed situation
 

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 05:21:34 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:



We've had the electrical inspector out a few times, most recently for the
automatic standby generator. He never said boo about receptacles.


Yeah, me too. I don't have a single GFCI in my house. If a contractor wants GFCI
protection, he'll have to bring it with him.