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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

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OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 2019-09-10 9:16 p.m., micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?

i'm not telling you how old i am or my sex but ,
i'll tell you this , i can't read
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 09/10/2019 09:16 PM, micky wrote:

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade...


That's what the LA schools (and probably everybody else) used. When we
read aloud I thought that we were supposed to do it with big pauses
between the words like all the other kids did. It seemed dumb, but if
that was the way it was supposed to be done...

Needless to say, that was NOT how we taught our kids to read. We
figured it was too important to let the school muck it up so we did it
ourselves.

--
Cheers, Bev
Non illegitimi carborundum.
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:16:56 -0400, micky
wrote:

alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?

I started school in '57 and was taught a combination of Phonics and
word recognition. Word recognition also included some level of
context. That 3 pronged method had me reading at a grade 3 level by
the end of first grade. I became a voracious reader - both fiction and
non-fiction - much of which was technical material. Without the
phonetic component, it is MUCH more difficult to become fluent. My
girls started school in 1987/88 and struggled until WE started
teaching them basic phonics. Didn't help that we had them in French
Immersion. I think they could read French better than English by grade
4. Oldest daughter does a LOT of reading (has to for her postgrad
course-work!!!) - and enjoys reading for pleasure when she has time -
She moved several hundred pounds of books in her last move, and has a
pretty fair-sized set of book shelves in the apartment
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 11/9/19 3:10 pm, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:16:56 -0400, micky
wrote:

alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?

I started school in '57 and was taught a combination of Phonics and
word recognition. Word recognition also included some level of
context. That 3 pronged method had me reading at a grade 3 level by
the end of first grade. I became a voracious reader - both fiction and
non-fiction - much of which was technical material. Without the
phonetic component, it is MUCH more difficult to become fluent. My
girls started school in 1987/88 and struggled until WE started
teaching them basic phonics. Didn't help that we had them in French
Immersion. I think they could read French better than English by grade
4. Oldest daughter does a LOT of reading (has to for her postgrad
course-work!!!) - and enjoys reading for pleasure when she has time -
She moved several hundred pounds of books in her last move, and has a
pretty fair-sized set of book shelves in the apartment

Hmm, I started in 1957 too. Learnt phonetics, learnt word roots,
breaking words into syllables, suffixes and prefixes. We learnt through
semantics and syntactics as we went though we didn't know the words used
to describe what we were doing. Graphonics is something you develop
naturally as a voracious reader, which I was. I was always way ahead of
my year level in reading - reading books for year 8 whilst in year 4,
for instance. It helped that my parents were also voracious readers and
there was always a library of books, magazines and the like in the
house. Having a mother who was a university graduate was also a benefit.

My wife learnt English as a second language with whole word recognition.
That relies on rote memory far too much and, as an adult, is not an
appropriate way to learn a new language, especially when the script you
learnt as a child was derived from Sanskrit. Try, for instance, to learn
a new alphabet as an adult and you will get what I mean. The ability to
do rote learning diminishes from the onset of the teenage years. Even
now, some 39 years after my wife first learnt English, she still has
difficulty breaking a word up into syllables and this hinders her
pronunciation immensely.

Parents are the greatest influence upon children with regard to reading.
When I took up teaching, I had a mixed bag of students, some very
literate, some bordering on bare minimum literacy. I used to ask those
students who had poor literacy levels if their parents were readers, had
books and newspapers in the house, were regular visitors to the library,
etc. In pretty much all cases, the answers were no to all the questions.

You can teach whatever you want in a school environment but that
learning environment needs appropriate reinforcement at home. Without
it, the learning withers.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)


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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 12:17:08 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


I'm 62. I started reading before kindergarten, but IIRC I was taught
using phonics. I recall being told to "sound it out".

Cindy Hamilton
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 11/09/2019 11:30, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 12:17:08 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


I'm 62. I started reading before kindergarten, but IIRC I was taught
using phonics. I recall being told to "sound it out".

Cindy Hamilton

I seemed to pick up reading very easily, I remember being picked to

read to the class to encourage the others, aged five, but found maths
extremely hard....weird.

--
Bod
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?



"micky" wrote in message
...
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OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?


I'm a year older than you. My father was military, so we moved around quite
a bit. My mother taught me to read before I even started school (she was an
RN, and had the patience, I guess, LOL), but I would assume it was probably
phonetics and word recognition.

I sat my girls on my lap and read to them, and eventually had them reading
out loud along with me, and they were both reading before starting school (2
years apart). Granted, not at a middle school level, but I would say
probably at an early 2nd grade level. I assume that would also be the
phonetics and word recognition method.
--

SC Tom


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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 9/10/19 11:16 PM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?

64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade. Grouchy old lady who didn't put up with any crap. She knew who
was boss and made sure everyone in her classes did. Best teacher I had, of
course.
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

In article , NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...

OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on


Things are much different now.

With computers children are learning to read and spell much younger.
About 40 years ago I had a radio shack computer. I made my son learn
the letters and how to spell some things to get the games up on the
computer. That was way before the 'point ad click' of the mouse system.
All we had was a keyboard.

My grandson did much the same and also he watched much TV and learned
how to spell many things off the TV shows he watched.

When I started the 1st grade I doubt I had even learned the alphabit.
We did the old readers with 'Dick and Jane,. The 'See Dick run. See
Jane run.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 11/09/2019 07.00, The Real Bev wrote:
On 09/10/2019 09:16 PM, micky wrote:

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade...


That's what the LA schools (and probably everybody else) used.* When we
read aloud I thought that we were supposed to do it with big pauses
between the words like all the other kids did.* It seemed dumb, but if
that was the way it was supposed to be done...


My mother was a "toddler" teacher. Her successes getting kids to read
were much better than the rest. The method she used was a mixture of the
old classic and new ones - but as this is Spain, they do not apply to
English. She used figures of things that sounded similar to each
syllable or letter (I don't remember which), each figure in a card. The
kids had to put the figures on top of the corresponding letter (or
syllable). The other method she used was to read, a kid a time, from a
special book that had combinations of letters in appropriate order (La
Cartilla). This is a lot of effort for the teacher, one kid a time, and
all kids, each one at his/her own pace.

What she said, is that most kids had a day when they suddenly discovered
that the words joined in phrases and that they meant things. At that
instant they started to read everything they could and enjoy it a lot.
She said it was a wondrous moment of joy to see, and we supposed, for
the kids. Their faces were amazing.


However, I remember some of my pals at school read haltingly.


Needless to say, that was NOT how we taught our kids to read.* We
figured it was too important to let the school muck it up so we did it
ourselves.



--
Cheers, Carlos.
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:16:56 -0400, micky
wrote:

alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


I taught my son the alphabet because he was curious and asked.
Next thing he was asking me what "Japan" and "suicide" meant. He knew
how to pronounce the words, but not what they meant. He had just
turned 2. I had to turn the newspaper pages for him, they were too
big.
At 3 he wrote a short story on the computer about dinosaurs
and an "egg war" (I still have it). Not very good reading..... he was
more focused on inventing new names for each dinosaur than the story
itself. After that he became more interested in bicycles than reading
which was a relief.
At seven he had leukemia (which relapsed), both treated with
heavy brain radiation (+ quimo). Radiation is no longer in the
protocol. Fsck the equipment manufacturers that lobbied for the
radiation protocol.
He's an "average" (IQ 130) computer programmer now.
Dunno if there's a moral to the story. Capacity/interest of
the pupil probably trumps teaching method?
[]'s

PS In Portuguese, words are pronounced as they are written. No
"read and read" here. In Portuguese they would be "red and reed".
Easier, huh?

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 09/11/2019 05:38 AM, SC Tom wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
...
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?


I'm a year older than you. My father was military, so we moved around
quite a bit. My mother taught me to read before I even started school
(she was an RN, and had the patience, I guess, LOL), but I would assume
it was probably phonetics and word recognition.

I sat my girls on my lap and read to them, and eventually had them
reading out loud along with me, and they were both reading before
starting school (2 years apart). Granted, not at a middle school level,
but I would say probably at an early 2nd grade level. I assume that
would also be the phonetics and word recognition method.


I learned by the lap method too. My father would read the funny sheets
and books to me. One day he was busy so I started reading one of my
favorite books. My parents thought I was just playing until they asked
me to read it out loud.

Word recognition, I guess, but I really don't know. I do recall the
'Look, Dick, see Spot' literature was intensely boring.

There were a lot of books around the house and I read anything I could
lay my hands on including Frank Yerby's 'The Foxes of Harrow'. Loved the
book although it raised some questions about how I could correctly use
'octoroon' in seventh grade. Persons of color were more finely
categorized back then.
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On 09/11/2019 07:25 AM, Shadow wrote:
PS In Portuguese, words are pronounced as they are written. No
"read and read" here. In Portuguese they would be "red and reed".
Easier, huh?


Although it's rusty my other language is German. It is also
straightforward in pronunciation. The challenge is the fondness for
compound words but once you figure out which words were pasted together
you can pronounce it.

English is a mongrel language, a product of diversity.
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"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2019 07:25 AM, Shadow wrote:
PS In Portuguese, words are pronounced as they are written. No
"read and read" here. In Portuguese they would be "red and reed".
Easier, huh?


Although it's rusty my other language is German. It is also
straightforward in pronunciation. The challenge is the fondness for
compound words but once you figure out which words were pasted together
you can pronounce it.


I remember learning German compound words such as Luftkissenfahrzeug
(hovercraft - "air cushion travel thing") and Fernsehapparat (TV - "far see
apparatus"). My grandpa was a member of a model railway society and they had
dealings with a similar society in Germany. They sent my grandpa (who was
editor of his society's newsletter) a ****-take of their own language, as a
story in "German" with English translation. The word that they translated as
"cab" was "Herrlokomotivdirektordonnerundblitzenhaus". So Germans *do* have
a sense of humour after all.



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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

NY wrote:
[...]
I remember learning German compound words such as Luftkissenfahrzeug
(hovercraft - "air cushion travel thing") and Fernsehapparat (TV - "far see
apparatus"). My grandpa was a member of a model railway society and they had
dealings with a similar society in Germany. They sent my grandpa (who was
editor of his society's newsletter) a ****-take of their own language, as a
story in "German" with English translation. The word that they translated as
"cab" was "Herrlokomotivdirektordonnerundblitzenhaus". So Germans *do* have
a sense of humour after all.


You mean like:

Leichtmetallhochdrukdampfkochkesselmitautomatische mshreianlage

(kettle with a whistle)

Eisenbahnknotenpunkthinundhersteller

(the person who changes the switches in a railway track)

Ineinemverdecktenkastenaufgestellte....

(Can't remember the rest, but it's a souffleur in a theatre.)

No, I'm *not* German! :-)
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"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
[...]
I remember learning German compound words such as Luftkissenfahrzeug
(hovercraft - "air cushion travel thing") and Fernsehapparat (TV - "far
see
apparatus"). My grandpa was a member of a model railway society and they
had
dealings with a similar society in Germany. They sent my grandpa (who was
editor of his society's newsletter) a ****-take of their own language, as
a
story in "German" with English translation. The word that they translated
as
"cab" was "Herrlokomotivdirektordonnerundblitzenhaus". So Germans *do*
have
a sense of humour after all.


You mean like:

Leichtmetallhochdrukdampfkochkesselmitautomatische mshreianlage

(kettle with a whistle)

Eisenbahnknotenpunkthinundhersteller

(the person who changes the switches in a railway track)

Ineinemverdecktenkastenaufgestellte....

(Can't remember the rest, but it's a souffleur in a theatre.)

No, I'm *not* German! :-)


I've often thought that it must make a typesetter's job a nightmare,
especially when full-justifying text in narrow newspaper columns ;-) The
first one would take several lines of hyphenated text.

I'm sure a lot of the longest ones are not in common use. I was rather
miffed, after learning Luftkissenfahrzeug, to discover that Germans usually
use das Hovercraft.


I remember many years ago in an edition of the Guinness Book of Records,
under the section "longest word", that the record was a Fijiian word which
translated as "Father-in-law, don't look now, I'm bending over". It is their
word for... mini-skirt ;-) Yeah, right. I'm sure it is.

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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 9/11/2019 12:14 PM, NY wrote:
"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
[...]
I remember learning German compound words such as Luftkissenfahrzeug
(hovercraft - "air cushion travel thing") and Fernsehapparat (TV -
"far see
apparatus"). My grandpa was a member of a model railway society and
they had
dealings with a similar society in Germany. They sent my grandpa (who
was
editor of his society's newsletter) a ****-take of their own
language, as a
story in "German" with English translation. The word that they
translated as
"cab" was "Herrlokomotivdirektordonnerundblitzenhaus". So Germans
*do* have
a sense of humour after all.


*You mean like:

Leichtmetallhochdrukdampfkochkesselmitautomatische mshreianlage

(kettle with a whistle)

Eisenbahnknotenpunkthinundhersteller

(the person who changes the switches in a railway track)

Ineinemverdecktenkastenaufgestellte....

(Can't remember the rest, but it's a souffleur in a theatre.)

No, I'm *not* German! :-)


I've often thought that it must make a typesetter's job a nightmare,
especially when full-justifying text in narrow newspaper columns ;-)
The first one would take several lines of hyphenated text.

I'm sure a lot of the longest ones are not in common use. I was rather
miffed, after learning Luftkissenfahrzeug, to discover that Germans
usually use das Hovercraft.


I remember many years ago in an edition of the Guinness Book of Records,
under the section "longest word", that the record was a Fijiian word
which translated as "Father-in-law, don't look now, I'm bending over".
It is their word for... mini-skirt ;-) Yeah, right. I'm sure it is.


Leave it to Wiki to have an article on the world's longest words:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_words

No mention of Fijian.

I concur as a retired chemist that the longest words would be chemical
names.

I had also studied German when studying chemistry and while I am not
fluent in it, I did publish a short communication in a German journal.
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 9/11/2019 12:16 AM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


First grade in 1950. Phonics and the Dick and Jane readers.

See Spot run.
Run Spot, run.
Jane likes Dick. Jane was a slut.
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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/11/2019 12:16 AM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


First grade in 1950. Phonics and the Dick and Jane readers.

See Spot run.
Run Spot, run.
Jane likes Dick. Jane was a slut.


Oooh, You've introduced a new word in the last line. Expand their
vocabulary. And it's got that complicated "sl" combination :-) "Mummy,
mummy, what's a slut?"


In my case it was:

Tip is a dog. (the picture gives the game away)
Mitten is a cat. (ditto)
Tip likes Mitten. (good)
Mitten likes Tip. (ah, good, no unrequited love)



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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?


When I started the 1st grade I doubt I had even learned the alphabit.
We did the old readers with 'Dick and Jane,. The 'See Dick run. See
Jane run.


See little blonde white children in all your school books
run & play & be happy.
See your black & brown & asian neighbours
be bullied and excluded
.. in your neighbourhoods ..
John T.

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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

On 09/11/2019 10:14 AM, NY wrote:
I'm sure a lot of the longest ones are not in common use. I was rather
miffed, after learning Luftkissenfahrzeug, to discover that Germans
usually use das Hovercraft.


At least that one is pronounceable. Try ‘cyfrwngddarostyngedigaethau’.
That's a real word. I think
'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysili ogogogoch' was made up
by the tourist bureau.
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"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2019 10:14 AM, NY wrote:
I'm sure a lot of the longest ones are not in common use. I was rather
miffed, after learning Luftkissenfahrzeug, to discover that Germans
usually use das Hovercraft.


At least that one is pronounceable. Try ‘cyfrwngddarostyngedigaethau’.
That's a real word. I think
'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysili ogogogoch' was made up
by the tourist bureau.


Yes Welsh looks very alien to non-Welsh-speakers. It doesn't help that "w"
is treated as a vowel (or at least, a vowel sound) and that it has
diphthongs such as "dd" ("th" as in "this"), "ll" ("hl", blowing air past
your tongue which is placed between your teeth), "ff" (four) but "f" (vat).


By the way, what does cyfrwngddarostyngedigaethau actually mean? Google
translate says "medium subventions", whatever that means ;-)

Pronunciation: I'll have a go - I don't mind being shot down in flames...

Kuvroong THarostun gedig-eye-th-eye

(TH=this; th=thin)


In England, we have nothing to compare to Lllanfair PG. The longest
placename (and strictly speaking, it's hyphenated) is
Sutton-under-Whitestonecliffe: https://goo.gl/maps/1KVHCVoNrzwYQJFy6
(without hyphens) or
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x...y=482487&z=115 (with hyphens).

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On 09/12/2019 03:30 AM, NY wrote:
By the way, what does cyfrwngddarostyngedigaethau actually mean? Google
translate says "medium subventions", whatever that means ;-)


Google rides again...

https://glosbe.com/cy/en/cyfrwngddarostyngedigaeth

Intercessions as in

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.

The 'au' is the plural. A friend was Welsh and one of his routines was
speaking the language to everyone's amusement. It sort of sounds like it
looks.

I took a brief try at Irish (Gaelic) and quickly realized I might as
well try Farsi. Between Latin in high school and German most European
languages have landmarks I can recognize. The Celtic languages are
categorized as a branch of the Indo-European family but then so is Persian.



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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:29:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 9/11/2019 12:16 AM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


First grade in 1950. Phonics and the Dick and Jane readers.

See Spot run.
Run Spot, run.
Jane likes Dick. Jane was a slut.


Wow. Your reader was a lot more risque than mine.

We didn't cover sluts until the 8th grade.


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On 9/13/2019 6:28 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:29:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 9/11/2019 12:16 AM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?


First grade in 1950. Phonics and the Dick and Jane readers.

See Spot run.
Run Spot, run.
Jane likes Dick. Jane was a slut.


Wow. Your reader was a lot more risque than mine.

We didn't cover sluts until the 8th grade.

I went to Catholic school so honesty was paramount. To this day, I have
never told a lie.

Our fifth grade reader was education a tool
Dick likes Jane
Jane grows tits
Dick gets erections.
Dick does not touch dick so he does not sin.

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On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:36:48 -0400, Frank wrote:

Leave it to Wiki to have an article on


I often read Wikipedia's 'random' entries. Someone has actually bothered to
write an entry for 'fart-lighting', complete with photo.

(Don't worry, the guy is wearing pants.)
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On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 00:47:59 +0000, Mike_Duffy
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:36:48 -0400, Frank wrote:

Leave it to Wiki to have an article on


I often read Wikipedia's 'random' entries. Someone has actually bothered to
write an entry for 'fart-lighting', complete with photo.

(Don't worry, the guy is wearing pants.)


No ****!
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
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On 14/9/19 11:30 am, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 00:47:59 +0000, Mike_Duffy
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:36:48 -0400, Frank wrote:

Leave it to Wiki to have an article on


I often read Wikipedia's 'random' entries. Someone has actually bothered to
write an entry for 'fart-lighting', complete with photo.

(Don't worry, the guy is wearing pants.)


No ****!
[]'s

One would hope!

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 9/10/19 11:16 PM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?

64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade.


You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you
were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well
now. Congratulations.

Grouchy old lady who didn't put up with any crap. She knew who
was boss and made sure everyone in her classes did. Best teacher I had, of
course.




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In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:30:06 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , NONONOmisc07
says...

OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on


Things are much different now.

With computers children are learning to read and spell much younger.
About 40 years ago I had a radio shack computer. I made my son learn
the letters and how to spell some things to get the games up on the
computer. That was way before the 'point ad click' of the mouse system.
All we had was a keyboard.

My grandson did much the same and also he watched much TV and learned
how to spell many things off the TV shows he watched.

When I started the 1st grade I doubt I had even learned the alphabit.
We did the old readers with 'Dick and Jane,. The 'See Dick run. See
Jane run.


Yes, I think we had the same book, and afaict, no one knew a single
letter before first grade started. There was kindergarten - my best
friend and I didn't go, but some did -- but aiui it was for playing, and
learning to play with others, and not for book learnin'.

My mother used to read to my 7-year older brother, and I think he looked
over her shoulder and learned to read without her trying to teach him.
He skipped the first grade and was in a grade where all the boys and
probably the girls were bigger than he was. I don't know details but it
didn't seem to work out well.

So she was careful not to teach me a thing.

Some time in December, my parents went to my mother's best friend and
her husband's house. My brother was picking on me, nothing serious but
I didnt' like it. So I looked the Fisher's number up in the phonebook
and I called to talk to my mother. They were all so impressed that I
could do that. I was sort of mystified. What was the point of going
to school for 3.5 months if not to learn how to read? (And to cipher.)
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 03:46:59 -0400, micky
wrote:

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 9/10/19 11:16 PM, micky wrote:
alt.home.repair added. Best to reply to this one.


OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same
fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951
is still going on.


When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the
board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest
between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later
these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names
too.

Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first
grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of
teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she
probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically.
Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including
the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who
stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)


Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where
the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic,
syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean.
On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and
something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?

64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade.


You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you
were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well
now. Congratulations.

Grouchy old lady who didn't put up with any crap. She knew who
was boss and made sure everyone in her classes did. Best teacher I had, of
course.

That's nothing, my mother only had 3 teachers from grade 1 to 8.
Little country one-room schoolhouse.
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In article ,
micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:
64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade.


You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you
were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well
now. Congratulations.


Teachers don't always teach the same age/grade. They may teach one age
in one academic year, and a different age in another year. I had the
same teacher two years in a row, as the school felt it gave the class
more continuity (this was between ages 9 and 11, back in the 1960s).

Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: - http://tony.mountifield.org
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"Tony Mountifield" wrote in message
...
In article ,
micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:
64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade.


You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you
were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well
now. Congratulations.


Teachers don't always teach the same age/grade. They may teach one age
in one academic year, and a different age in another year. I had the
same teacher two years in a row, as the school felt it gave the class
more continuity (this was between ages 9 and 11, back in the 1960s).


At what age in US schools do they make the transition from having the same
teacher for all subjects to have different teachers for different subjects.
I think by age 9 and certainly by age 11 I had one teacher for English,
another for Math(s), another for French etc - this was in the UK.

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On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:11:19 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Tony Mountifield" wrote in message
...
In article ,
micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:
64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade.

You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you
were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well
now. Congratulations.


Teachers don't always teach the same age/grade. They may teach one age
in one academic year, and a different age in another year. I had the
same teacher two years in a row, as the school felt it gave the class
more continuity (this was between ages 9 and 11, back in the 1960s).


At what age in US schools do they make the transition from having the same
teacher for all subjects to have different teachers for different subjects.
I think by age 9 and certainly by age 11 I had one teacher for English,
another for Math(s), another for French etc - this was in the UK.


That is typically 7th grade (Middle School or Jr High school).

High School is either 9th or 10th grade but the transition somewhat
seamless in the public system only offering a wider choice of classes
in high school. The private high school I went to (grade 9-12) was
run more like college. If you didn't have a class you didn't have to
be there and you set up your own schedule. Someone motivated could get
all their credits by the end of 11th grade and graduate. You could
also drag it out for 5 or 6 years if you wanted to. it was your money.
We did have kids in their 5th year retaking classes they didn't do
well in to pump up their transcript. That was back when it was harder
to get into college tho and admissions offices wanted that straight A
thing..
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On 09/19/2019 01:53 AM, micky wrote:
So she was careful not to teach me a thing.


That's a lifelong pattern for you...
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"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
k.net...
In article , lid says...
At what age in US schools do they make the transition from having the
same
teacher for all subjects to have different teachers for different
subjects.
I think by age 9 and certainly by age 11 I had one teacher for English,
another for Math(s), another for French etc - this was in the UK.


Around here in North Carolina you usually start the 1 st grade around 6
years old. There is some pre school that start sooner. The 7th grade
is where it usually starts one teacher per subject. That would usually
put you about 13 or 14 years old.


Ah, so the change from one teacher for everything to one teacher per subject
happens quite a lot later in (some) US schools than in the UK. I hadn't
realised that.

The separation of schools in the UK happens at around 11-12 (it varies
slightly from one county to another) but I *think* subject teaching usually
starts towards the end of the primary school, before children move on to the
secondary school. I'm a bit out of touch with not having children of my own
but I'm going by what my sister has told me of her boys.

One thing that varies from one county to another is whether the
comprehensive system has been adopted. I mentioned a while ago up-thread
that in the early 1970s *most* counties adopted a policy of all children in
a given area going to the same secondary school at age 11, whereas
previously children had taken a verbal and numerical reasoning test ("the
11-plus") which decided whether they went to a grammar school or a secondary
modern school. A *few* counties (for example Buckinghamshire where we moved
when I was about 13) decided to continue with the old 11-plus system to this
day. There's probably not much difference between a grammar school and a
secondary modern school nowadays - apart from catering for two sets of
children of supposedly different abilities, I think there's a lot less
assumption that the less-clever children will only want to become
secretaries/housewives (for the girls) and manual workers (boys), and the
SMs probably still aim to get children in to university or other
higher-education colleges on less academic, more vocational courses.


One thing that has changed is the numbering of the school years. Until maybe
about 20-30 years ago, the secondary school years were named starting at 1
for the first year *in the secondary school* - ie age 11. This led to the
well-known fifth form (year) for age 15-16, when children could legally
leave school after taking O level (Oordinary Level) exams in a large number
of subjects studied at a more superficial level; and sixth form (divided
into Lower Sixth and Upper Sixth) for the two extra years 16-17 and 17-18
when children could choose to stay on at school to study usually three
subjects in much greater depth to take A level (Advanced Level) exams, the
results of which govern which university will accept you for a degree
course.

That concept has remained, though O levels are now called GCSE (General
Certificate in Secondary Education), but the numbering of school years now
starts when children start primary school at age 5 (a year earlier than in
the US - or at least in North Carolina) - so our numbering is now a lot more
like yours. It takes some adjustment to work out that Year 12 is what I knew
as Fifth Form and Years 13 and 14 are what I knew as Lower/Upper Sixth ;-)

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Default OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:11:19 +0100, "NY"
wrote:

"Tony Mountifield" wrote in message
...
In article ,
micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:
64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again
in 6th
grade.

You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you
were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well
now. Congratulations.


Teachers don't always teach the same age/grade. They may teach one age


Oh, okay. So you're smarter than it seemed. Good.

in one academic year, and a different age in another year. I had the
same teacher two years in a row, as the school felt it gave the class
more continuity (this was between ages 9 and 11, back in the 1960s).


At what age in US schools do they make the transition from having the same
teacher for all subjects to have different teachers for different subjects.
I think by age 9 and certainly by age 11 I had one teacher for English,
another for Math(s), another for French etc - this was in the UK.


I think in both Pennsylvania and Indiana, for grades 1 to 6 we just had
one teacher for all subjects (except maybe an hour a week we had music
with a music teacher, and the same with art with an art teacher, in
Penn. In Indiana for the 2nd half of the 6th grade, we didn't have art
or music at all, even though it was a suburban n'hood outside a big city
that my mother chose largely for its schools.

I had wood shop and a shorter printing shop in the 7th grade, and metal
shop in the 8th grade.

I did have some kind of art class in the 8th grade but now I can't
figure out how that would have fit into the schedule. I remember they
lost the only decent thing I ever did, a box for Jello.
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