|
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
What chemistry is going on here?
http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: http://i.imgur.com/EqJPylY.jpg But the end result is less than spectacular: http://i.imgur.com/nmyISVG.jpg It seems the metal *under* the baked-on crud was worn away, leaving the crud! http://i.imgur.com/kHCTfCe.jpg On the inside of the pot, it just seemed to pit the insides like sandpaper: http://i.imgur.com/XYnQF0P.jpg The result of all that hydrochloric acid was a large vase of pretty green "something" ... but what is this green something made out of? http://i.imgur.com/O5R4g1t.jpg More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/29/2017 5:54 PM, Danny D. wrote:
What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: http://i.imgur.com/EqJPylY.jpg But the end result is less than spectacular: http://i.imgur.com/nmyISVG.jpg It seems the metal *under* the baked-on crud was worn away, leaving the crud! http://i.imgur.com/kHCTfCe.jpg On the inside of the pot, it just seemed to pit the insides like sandpaper: http://i.imgur.com/XYnQF0P.jpg The result of all that hydrochloric acid was a large vase of pretty green "something" ... but what is this green something made out of? http://i.imgur.com/O5R4g1t.jpg More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? I thought bases were appropriate to dissolve organics rather than acids. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/29/2017 8:54 PM, Danny D. wrote:
What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing What the heck is in the pot? Did something overcook and burn? I've cleaned a couple of burnt pots by putting dishwasher detergent and boiling few minutes, then soak overnight. They are 50 years old and still look like new. Worst case scenario, five minutes with an SOS pad |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:59:08 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: http://i.imgur.com/EqJPylY.jpg But the end result is less than spectacular: http://i.imgur.com/nmyISVG.jpg It seems the metal *under* the baked-on crud was worn away, leaving the crud! http://i.imgur.com/kHCTfCe.jpg On the inside of the pot, it just seemed to pit the insides like sandpaper: http://i.imgur.com/XYnQF0P.jpg The result of all that hydrochloric acid was a large vase of pretty green "something" ... but what is this green something made out of? http://i.imgur.com/O5R4g1t.jpg More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? I believe Frank is a chemist. You might try pinging him with your chemistry questions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [8~{} Uncle Dissolving Monster |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
"Danny D." wrote in message ... What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? Lye = sodium hydroxide. It will dissolve the crud but not eat the metal like HCl. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/29/2017 8:54 PM, Danny D. wrote:
What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: http://i.imgur.com/EqJPylY.jpg But the end result is less than spectacular: http://i.imgur.com/nmyISVG.jpg It seems the metal *under* the baked-on crud was worn away, leaving the crud! http://i.imgur.com/kHCTfCe.jpg On the inside of the pot, it just seemed to pit the insides like sandpaper: http://i.imgur.com/XYnQF0P.jpg The result of all that hydrochloric acid was a large vase of pretty green "something" ... but what is this green something made out of? http://i.imgur.com/O5R4g1t.jpg More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? I'd use spray oven cleaner, but the acid may have already damaged the surface of the pot. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 2:16 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:59:08 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote: What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: http://i.imgur.com/EqJPylY.jpg But the end result is less than spectacular: http://i.imgur.com/nmyISVG.jpg It seems the metal *under* the baked-on crud was worn away, leaving the crud! http://i.imgur.com/kHCTfCe.jpg On the inside of the pot, it just seemed to pit the insides like sandpaper: http://i.imgur.com/XYnQF0P.jpg The result of all that hydrochloric acid was a large vase of pretty green "something" ... but what is this green something made out of? http://i.imgur.com/O5R4g1t.jpg More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? I believe Frank is a chemist. You might try pinging him with your chemistry questions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [8~{} Uncle Dissolving Monster HCl reacts with aluminum to form hydrogen gas and aluminum chloride. You want to clean the pot, not dissolve it. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 8:59:08 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: http://i.imgur.com/EqJPylY.jpg But the end result is less than spectacular: http://i.imgur.com/nmyISVG.jpg It seems the metal *under* the baked-on crud was worn away, leaving the crud! http://i.imgur.com/kHCTfCe.jpg On the inside of the pot, it just seemed to pit the insides like sandpaper: http://i.imgur.com/XYnQF0P.jpg The result of all that hydrochloric acid was a large vase of pretty green "something" ... but what is this green something made out of? http://i.imgur.com/O5R4g1t.jpg More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? A toilet is made of porcelain which does not react to the hydrochloric acid, while the mineral deposits very actively react with it. That's why it doesn't damage the toilet and works. Those pots are made of metal, which will react with the acid, while the burnt on food, while somewhat reactive, is probably not highly reactive, depending on what it is. That's the chemistry of why it didn't work. If you burn food badly in a pot, put an inch of water in it, more if needed to cover it all, add a few tbsp of dishwasher powder, put it on the stove and let it simmer for an hour. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 04:52:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
A toilet is made of porcelain which does not react to the hydrochloric acid, while the mineral deposits very actively react with it. That's why it doesn't damage the toilet and works. As we know from my extensive experiments with *every* household chemical known to mankind, NOTHING (bar none!) you can buy at any hardware store or supermarket cleans toilets like concentrated pool acid! Anyone who thinks otherwise has never tried it. :) Those pots are made of metal, which will react with the acid, while the burnt on food, while somewhat reactive, is probably not highly reactive, depending on what it is. That's the chemistry of why it didn't work. Thank you for that explanation as to why the baked-on crud didn't bat an eye when enveloped in HCl. If you burn food badly in a pot, put an inch of water in it, more if needed to cover it all, add a few tbsp of dishwasher powder, put it on the stove and let it simmer for an hour. Interesting suggestion. I don't have dishwasher powder handy, but laundry detergent should be the same stuff as shampoo, dish detergent, and laundry detergent are mostly sodium sulphates (e.g., sodium lauryl sulfate, sodium dodecyl sulphate, etc.). Again, I eschew the weakness of common household chemicals, so, I admit I'm different in that I just love the power of the industrial stuff. Is a sodium sulphate locally available in concentrated form by the gallon? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:34:32 -0400, Art Todesco wrote:
I'd use spray oven cleaner, but the acid may have already damaged the surface of the pot. I thought of the oven cleaner foam, but really, I dislike the weak chemicals that are found in a supermarket, or even nowadays, in California, the "baby chemicals" that are available in the hardware stores. I wish I had access to a chem lab which has concentrated sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide both of which are like syrup as I recall from my college days long ago. So the trick is to find a local industrial supplier where I can buy a gallon of sodium hydroxide. What industry uses sodium hydroxide by the gallon? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:15:42 -0400, dadiOH wrote:
Lye = sodium hydroxide. It will dissolve the crud but not eat the metal like HCl. No doubt about it that concentrated sodium hydroxide would be fun to try. The question is where to get the concentrate locally. I'm not the type to buy the tremendously diluted and perfumed household chemicals in the local supermarket. I like the raw powerful stuff. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:43:40 -0400, Frank wrote:
HCl reacts with aluminum to form hydrogen gas and aluminum chloride. You want to clean the pot, not dissolve it. The pots appear to be a mix of metals but I agree that the HCl was a failure as what happened, as Frank said, is that the metal *underneath* the crud dissolved, such that the crud flaked off. I could try the pressure washer but I was hoping to find a chemical that would do the trick. I know about sodium hydroxide. Frank - do you think concentrated NaOH would work? The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 00:02:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
What the heck is in the pot? Did something overcook and burn? I've cleaned a couple of burnt pots by putting dishwasher detergent and boiling few minutes, then soak overnight. They are 50 years old and still look like new. Worst case scenario, five minutes with an SOS pad The pots were basically "abused" by me (according to my wife) because I used them to make potato wedges for the grandkids, who love my potato wedges! I would parboil the potatoes, cut them into wedges, soak the wedges in cold water, whip up a mix of flavored flour, tamp down the wedges a bit with a towel, and then put the wedges and flavored flour in a baggie to shake shake shake. Then I'd freeze them (dunno why freezing works, but it does), and then when ready, I'd pop them into 400 degree F boiling oil in those pots. Invariably there'd be splashes, fires, and spills, where the end result was those pots. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 20:53:01 -0700, Bob F wrote:
I thought bases were appropriate to dissolve organics rather than acids. The only bases I have in any concentration are 5-pound bags of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Does that stand a chance of working? I'd love to try sodium hydroxide but where, in California, locally, can I pick up a bottle of concentrated sodium hydroxide like I can do with pool chemicals? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 23:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster wrote:
I believe Frank is a chemist. You might try pinging him with your chemistry questions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The main chemistry questions for Frank are Why is the froth green? And Where can I get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally? And, Would baking soda (of which I have five pounds of) stand a chance? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 7:23:13 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:15:42 -0400, dadiOH wrote: Lye = sodium hydroxide. It will dissolve the crud but not eat the metal like HCl. No doubt about it that concentrated sodium hydroxide would be fun to try. The question is where to get the concentrate locally. I'm not the type to buy the tremendously diluted and perfumed household chemicals in the local supermarket. I like the raw powerful stuff. I use lava straight from a volcano. None of that sissy stuff for me! ”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜ [8~{} Uncle Molten Monster |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 8:19 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:43:40 -0400, Frank wrote: HCl reacts with aluminum to form hydrogen gas and aluminum chloride. You want to clean the pot, not dissolve it. The pots appear to be a mix of metals but I agree that the HCl was a failure as what happened, as Frank said, is that the metal *underneath* the crud dissolved, such that the crud flaked off. I could try the pressure washer but I was hoping to find a chemical that would do the trick. I know about sodium hydroxide. Frank - do you think concentrated NaOH would work? The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Don't do that either. You will get the same result. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 07/30/2017 08:19 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Again, I eschew the weakness of common household chemicals, so, I admit I'm different in that I just love the power of the industrial stuff. Is a sodium sulphate locally available in concentrated form by the gallon? Jesus ****ing Christ! I hope you don't have children living with you. What the **** is wrong with you? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:19:11 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 00:02:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: What the heck is in the pot? Did something overcook and burn? I've cleaned a couple of burnt pots by putting dishwasher detergent and boiling few minutes, then soak overnight. They are 50 years old and still look like new. Worst case scenario, five minutes with an SOS pad The pots were basically "abused" by me (according to my wife) because I used them to make potato wedges for the grandkids, who love my potato wedges! I would parboil the potatoes, cut them into wedges, soak the wedges in cold water, whip up a mix of flavored flour, tamp down the wedges a bit with a towel, and then put the wedges and flavored flour in a baggie to shake shake shake. Then I'd freeze them (dunno why freezing works, but it does), and then when ready, I'd pop them into 400 degree F boiling oil in those pots. Invariably there'd be splashes, fires, and spills, where the end result was those pots. Oh Danny, The wife is correct. The pics looked like burnt on oil/grease to me. Try an oil with a much higher smoke point. Oven cleaner would have been my go to first option. Spray heavily and enclose in a plastic bag overnight - repeat a time or two. You could likely put the pot in a self-cleaning oven to get the mess off as long as the pot is oven safe (no plastic handles). What am I gonna do with you son :-) |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/29/2017 5:54 PM, Danny D. wrote:
More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 09:07:12 -0400, Bud Weiser wrote:
Is a sodium sulphate locally available in concentrated form by the gallon? Jesus ****ing Christ! I hope you don't have children living with you. What the **** is wrong with you? If you only knew the number of related and unrelated children I have living with me and the wife... We've had this discussion before, where there are two types of people. 1. Mother who stands on chair in the kitchen with a broom in hand screaming that a mouse ran across the floor. 2. Father who calmly puts out a mouse trap (and disposes of the result). The world is filled to the brim with those two types of people. 2. One type uses a cup of pool acid to clean a toilet bowl in seconds. 1. The other type fuels an entire aisle of toilet cleaning products at the local supermarket. We had this discussion with winding of garage door torsion springs, for example where... 1. One type screamed "you're gonna die!" 2. While the other type invested less than $10 in tools using them to calmly wind his springs which were 70K cycle springs to replace the 10K cycle springs that the garage-door repair company habitually installs. There's nothing wrong with you being the first type of person, but you need to recognize that calmer and less needlessly afraid people do exist in this world too. Ask Oren. He knows how to get rid of crud fast! |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:43:28 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote:
More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 Thanks for not screaming "You're gonna die!" and for suggesting a powerful alternative to fueling a complete aisle of uselessly dilute chemicals at the local supermarket. https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 "Non-butyl, extra heavy duty detergent degreaser formulated for use in industrial and institutional facilities. Excellent kitchen and restaurant degreaser. Extra degreasing boost cuts though greasy build-ups and heavy encrustations." Hmmmmmnbmm... what is it made of? "Contains no butyl or toxic solvents. No abrasives. No harmful vapors. No butyl kickback. Non-flammable. Biodegradable. Kosher and Pareve.". Ummmmhmmm. Ok... so it's Kosher. But what is it made up of? https://www.spartanchemical.com/sds/...HS/EN/2130.pdf " Causes severe skin burns and serious eye damage. May be corrosive to metals. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. May cause immediate pain. Destroy contaminated clothing." Good! Now we're talking! :) Reading on...it's mostly water as the diluent with the following chemicals: - Sodium metasilicate 5% to 10% - Sodium tripolyphosphate 1% to 5% - Potassium hydroxide 1% to 5% - Phospate ester 1% to 5% Googling for what the second-most main ingredient (other than water) does, we find Wiki says it's also known as "water glass" although there is only one sentence about it being a "detergent auxiliary". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate This gives a better explanation that it's a "water softener" which is used in common dishwasher laundry packets: https://blog.honest.com/what-is-sodium-metasilicate/# Hmmmmnnmmm... maybe the second ingredient isn't the clincher since a water softener isn't all that big of a deal, especially if I can get it out of a common diswhasher detergent packet. Moving to the third ingredient then, Sodium tripolyphosphate is apparently the phosphate in your basic detergents used as another water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_triphosphate Basically they make water more effective by "chelating calcium and magnesium ions". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphates_in_detergent I think I'm looking for something more directly dissolving of the baked-on fats than a simple water softener. To that effect, I do note my favorite, sodium hydroxide next on the list, but the question always was how to get a gallon of NaOH which I'd love to have at my disposal. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 05:49:19 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster wrote:
I use lava straight from a volcano. None of that sissy stuff for me! You may not know this, but I've been to every volcano I can find in most countries I've visited. The one thing that I can say is that some of them literally stink of sulfurous compounds! I ruined a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, in fact, in Greece, swimming in the caldera near Thera. My fault for accidentally leaving the adjuster unlocked. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:59:04 -0400, Frank wrote:
The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Don't do that either. You will get the same result. Thanks. I'm determined to expend the appreciable effort to find the easiest way to just "dissolve" the baked-on crud with zero final effort. What I'll try next, I guess, is either a sloppy bath of just-wet-enough-to-be-sticky gloopy gloppy laundry detergent (which seems to be mostly weak metal chelators and basic sodium sulfate fat polarizers)... or ... I'll get out the pressure washer! We never fail ... but we often try a few things that don't work before succeeding. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:59:04 -0400, Frank wrote:
The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Don't do that either. You will get the same result. BTW, Frank, do you think the rich unmistakable emerald green hue of the resulting HCl was due to the Fe in the pot metal? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 8:24 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 23:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster wrote: I believe Frank is a chemist. You might try pinging him with your chemistry questions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The main chemistry questions for Frank are Why is the froth green? And Where can I get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally? And, Would baking soda (of which I have five pounds of) stand a chance? I think I mentioned before that strong acids and bases will react with aluminum etching it and generating hydrogen gas which is the foam. The aluminum salts of both are colorless but there may be something in the stain turning the froth green. Baking soda is safe to use. You have burned in stains which are basically carbon that would have to be mechanically removed. My advice is to ditch the pots and buy new ones and don't abuse them. Coated cookware with Teflon or other finishes works great until worn out. Only cookware that lasts forever is stainless steel or cared for cast iron. Google is your best source and you will get tons of hits like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdTpp_Z_8Fo I suspect your pots have been too abused to completely recover them. Even stainless steel scrubbers will abraid softer aluminum. Things wear out. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:27:25 -0700, Oren wrote:
The wife is correct. She accuses me of abusing things all the time. She just doesn't understand men. The pics looked like burnt on oil/grease to me. Yup. The kids loved the flames! And the CO2 fire extinguisher whooosh! Whoosh! Whoosh! I ruined the vent to the stove in fact, because the flames burned the wires even though the (asbestos?) wire-mesh shield (that's a project to fix for later). Try an oil with a much higher smoke point. Ummmmm.... er ... how do I say this without offending the (very very very Italian wife) ... but um ... there is only ONE type of oil in the kitchen. Yes. One. Only one. It comes from Costco and not in a two-pack either. Oven cleaner would have been my go to first option. Spray heavily and enclose in a plastic bag overnight - repeat a time or two. OK. But isn't oven cleaner just extensively diluted perfumed sodium hydroxide? I'm not the guy for sissy stuff that supermarkets sell! :) Besides, Frank said that concentrated sodium hydroxide won't work. You could likely put the pot in a self-cleaning oven to get the mess off as long as the pot is oven safe (no plastic handles). That's an idea! Heat alone might work. Of course, heat is what caused the problem in the first place... So ... um... dunno. But something makes self-cleaning ovens work. I suspect they bake the fats to a crumbly crust. I think my next step will be the pressure washer though. Or the goopy laundry detergent bath. I was hoping for a magic chemical but Frank said NaOH isn't it. Certainly HCl isn't it. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 8:23:13 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:15:42 -0400, dadiOH wrote: Lye = sodium hydroxide. It will dissolve the crud but not eat the metal like HCl. No doubt about it that concentrated sodium hydroxide would be fun to try. The question is where to get the concentrate locally. I'm not the type to buy the tremendously diluted and perfumed household chemicals in the local supermarket. I like the raw powerful stuff. Draino was basically sodium hydroxide, with some other minor stuff mixed in. That should screw up those pots more, especially if they are aluminum. In fact, I think Draino had/has some aluminum tiny aluminum chips in it to react, make heat and get it going. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 10:43 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 7/29/2017 5:54 PM, Danny D. wrote: More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 Its also very high pH and prolonged contact can attack aluminum. Even one drop of 1% caustic in the eye if not immediately washed out can lead to blindness by clouding of the lens. I've worked with all these things in the lab where I have maximum protection if need like gloves, clothing, googles or face shield and good ventilation. Bringing concentrated acids or caustics into the kitchen to use can cause disaster if precautions are not taken. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 11:23:19 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:43:28 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 Thanks for not screaming "You're gonna die!" and for suggesting a powerful alternative to fueling a complete aisle of uselessly dilute chemicals at the local supermarket. https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 "Non-butyl, extra heavy duty detergent degreaser formulated for use in industrial and institutional facilities. Excellent kitchen and restaurant degreaser. Extra degreasing boost cuts though greasy build-ups and heavy encrustations." Hmmmmmnbmm... what is it made of? "Contains no butyl or toxic solvents. No abrasives. No harmful vapors. No butyl kickback. Non-flammable. Biodegradable. Kosher and Pareve.". Ummmmhmmm. Ok... so it's Kosher. But what is it made up of? https://www.spartanchemical.com/sds/...HS/EN/2130.pdf " Causes severe skin burns and serious eye damage. May be corrosive to metals. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. May cause immediate pain. Destroy contaminated clothing." Good! Now we're talking! :) Reading on...it's mostly water as the diluent with the following chemicals: - Sodium metasilicate 5% to 10% - Sodium tripolyphosphate 1% to 5% - Potassium hydroxide 1% to 5% - Phospate ester 1% to 5% Googling for what the second-most main ingredient (other than water) does, we find Wiki says it's also known as "water glass" although there is only one sentence about it being a "detergent auxiliary". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate This gives a better explanation that it's a "water softener" which is used in common dishwasher laundry packets: https://blog.honest.com/what-is-sodium-metasilicate/# Hmmmmnnmmm... maybe the second ingredient isn't the clincher since a water softener isn't all that big of a deal, especially if I can get it out of a common diswhasher detergent packet. Moving to the third ingredient then, Sodium tripolyphosphate is apparently the phosphate in your basic detergents used as another water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_triphosphate Basically they make water more effective by "chelating calcium and magnesium ions". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphates_in_detergent I think I'm looking for something more directly dissolving of the baked-on fats than a simple water softener. To that effect, I do note my favorite, sodium hydroxide next on the list, but the question always was how to get a gallon of NaOH which I'd love to have at my disposal. Have you looked on Ebay? Candle making, they use lye don't they? Online. Not that I think it's wise or good for cleaning pots, mind you. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 11:27 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:59:04 -0400, Frank wrote: The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Don't do that either. You will get the same result. BTW, Frank, do you think the rich unmistakable emerald green hue of the resulting HCl was due to the Fe in the pot metal? Green, I tend to think copper, iron tends to red and brown. There are probably other metals present too. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 8:19 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:43:28 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 Thanks for not screaming "You're gonna die!" and for suggesting a powerful alternative to fueling a complete aisle of uselessly dilute chemicals at the local supermarket. https://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004 "Non-butyl, extra heavy duty detergent degreaser formulated for use in industrial and institutional facilities. Excellent kitchen and restaurant degreaser. Extra degreasing boost cuts though greasy build-ups and heavy encrustations." Hmmmmmnbmm... what is it made of? "Contains no butyl or toxic solvents. No abrasives. No harmful vapors. No butyl kickback. Non-flammable. Biodegradable. Kosher and Pareve.". Ummmmhmmm. Ok... so it's Kosher. But what is it made up of? https://www.spartanchemical.com/sds/...HS/EN/2130.pdf " Causes severe skin burns and serious eye damage. May be corrosive to metals. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. May cause immediate pain. Destroy contaminated clothing." Good! Now we're talking! :) Reading on...it's mostly water as the diluent with the following chemicals: - Sodium metasilicate 5% to 10% - Sodium tripolyphosphate 1% to 5% - Potassium hydroxide 1% to 5% - Phospate ester 1% to 5% Googling for what the second-most main ingredient (other than water) does, we find Wiki says it's also known as "water glass" although there is only one sentence about it being a "detergent auxiliary". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate This gives a better explanation that it's a "water softener" which is used in common dishwasher laundry packets: https://blog.honest.com/what-is-sodium-metasilicate/# Hmmmmnnmmm... maybe the second ingredient isn't the clincher since a water softener isn't all that big of a deal, especially if I can get it out of a common diswhasher detergent packet. Moving to the third ingredient then, Sodium tripolyphosphate is apparently the phosphate in your basic detergents used as another water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_triphosphate Basically they make water more effective by "chelating calcium and magnesium ions". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphates_in_detergent I think I'm looking for something more directly dissolving of the baked-on fats than a simple water softener. To that effect, I do note my favorite, sodium hydroxide next on the list, but the question always was how to get a gallon of NaOH which I'd love to have at my disposal. "Cuts through greasy build-ups and heavy encrustations " I think you should leave this project to somebody else. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 11:04:42 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 09:07:12 -0400, Bud Weiser wrote: Is a sodium sulphate locally available in concentrated form by the gallon? Jesus ****ing Christ! I hope you don't have children living with you. What the **** is wrong with you? If you only knew the number of related and unrelated children I have living with me and the wife... We've had this discussion before, where there are two types of people. 1. Mother who stands on chair in the kitchen with a broom in hand screaming that a mouse ran across the floor. 2. Father who calmly puts out a mouse trap (and disposes of the result). There's a third kind. One who looks before he leaps, and doesn't use muriatic acid where baking soda will do the job, thus saving incalculable damage to household goods. You burned the actual wires in your range hood? Do your deep-frying outside. Cindy Hamilton |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 11:29:29 -0400, Frank wrote:
I think I mentioned before that strong acids and bases will react with aluminum etching it and generating hydrogen gas which is the foam. The aluminum salts of both are colorless but there may be something in the stain turning the froth green. There's something in the aluminum pots which turns the HCl emerald green. Maybe Fe? Baking soda is safe to use. You have burned in stains which are basically carbon that would have to be mechanically removed. Everyone says to use Baking Soda for almost everything but nobody knows how (or if) it works. Baking soda is just sodium bicarbonate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate It always amazes me that most people (not chemists) say to use baking soda for almost everything but not one of them knows how it works (or even if it works). I suspect 99% of the time it doesn't work. Somehow, they think baking soda does something that sodium bicarbonate can't do. Wiki says it's just a minor scouring agent, which if the point was to do physical labor, the pots would have been cleaned by someone else already. :) My advice is to ditch the pots and buy new ones and don't abuse them. Naaaah. That wouldn't be any fun. I suspect your pots have been too abused to completely recover them. Even stainless steel scrubbers will abraid softer aluminum. Things wear out. I own a sand blaster, but I'm gonna try the more gentle pressure washer next. Basically, all I really need though, is a carbon solvent. |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:15:42 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:
"Danny D." wrote in message ... What chemistry is going on here? http://i.imgur.com/C6hStFB.jpg Specifically, why green? http://i.imgur.com/A6zmLJM.jpg The wife loves when I clean the toilets using the patented huckleberry method devised by Oren of pouring concentrated pool acid into the tank, so, she asked me to clean the pots and pans ("for once"). http://i.imgur.com/UOjeomJ.jpg Being a believer in the magic of alchemy, I dutifully pour the HCL: blob:http://imgur.com/f7bf8cd4-3abc-49dd-9b7d-16a5ae9c04a0 This muriatic acid bubbles and froths quite reassuringly, as if it's doing something useful: More importantly, what is my next magic chemical to try? Lye = sodium hydroxide. It will dissolve the crud but not eat the metal like HCl. Unless the pots are aluminum - - - |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:19:04 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:15:42 -0400, dadiOH wrote: Lye = sodium hydroxide. It will dissolve the crud but not eat the metal like HCl. No doubt about it that concentrated sodium hydroxide would be fun to try. The question is where to get the concentrate locally. I'm not the type to buy the tremendously diluted and perfumed household chemicals in the local supermarket. I like the raw powerful stuff. Gillets lye crystals, oe red devil from local old-tyme hardware store |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:19:10 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:43:40 -0400, Frank wrote: HCl reacts with aluminum to form hydrogen gas and aluminum chloride. You want to clean the pot, not dissolve it. The pots appear to be a mix of metals but I agree that the HCl was a failure as what happened, as Frank said, is that the metal *underneath* the crud dissolved, such that the crud flaked off. I could try the pressure washer but I was hoping to find a chemical that would do the trick. I know about sodium hydroxide. Frank - do you think concentrated NaOH would work? The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Make your own from red devil crystals |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On 7/30/2017 10:26 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:59:04 -0400, Frank wrote: The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Don't do that either. You will get the same result. Thanks. I'm determined to expend the appreciable effort to find the easiest way to just "dissolve" the baked-on crud with zero final effort. What I'll try next, I guess, is either a sloppy bath of just-wet-enough-to-be-sticky gloopy gloppy laundry detergent (which seems to be mostly weak metal chelators and basic sodium sulfate fat polarizers)... or ... I'll get out the pressure washer! We never fail ... but we often try a few things that don't work before succeeding. I've used oven cleaner on such things and it worked like a charm. -- Maggie |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 15:27:48 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:59:04 -0400, Frank wrote: The problem even if it would work, is that I don't know where to get a gallon of concentrated NaOH locally. Don't do that either. You will get the same result. BTW, Frank, do you think the rich unmistakable emerald green hue of the resulting HCl was due to the Fe in the pot metal? Or the Cu? |
Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 15:35:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 07:27:25 -0700, Oren wrote: The wife is correct. She accuses me of abusing things all the time. She just doesn't understand men. The pics looked like burnt on oil/grease to me. Yup. The kids loved the flames! And the CO2 fire extinguisher whooosh! Whoosh! Whoosh! I ruined the vent to the stove in fact, because the flames burned the wires even though the (asbestos?) wire-mesh shield (that's a project to fix for later). Try an oil with a much higher smoke point. Ummmmm.... er ... how do I say this without offending the (very very very Italian wife) ... but um ... there is only ONE type of oil in the kitchen. Yes. One. Only one. It comes from Costco and not in a two-pack either. Oven cleaner would have been my go to first option. Spray heavily and enclose in a plastic bag overnight - repeat a time or two. OK. But isn't oven cleaner just extensively diluted perfumed sodium hydroxide? I'm not the guy for sissy stuff that supermarkets sell! :) Besides, Frank said that concentrated sodium hydroxide won't work. You could likely put the pot in a self-cleaning oven to get the mess off as long as the pot is oven safe (no plastic handles). That's an idea! Heat alone might work. Of course, heat is what caused the problem in the first place... So ... um... dunno. But something makes self-cleaning ovens work. A catalyst impregnated into the enamel or ceramic coating - - - I suspect they bake the fats to a crumbly crust. I think my next step will be the pressure washer though. Or the goopy laundry detergent bath. I was hoping for a magic chemical but Frank said NaOH isn't it. Certainly HCl isn't it. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:11 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter