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heater inspection
I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a
woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? |
heater inspection
micky wrote:
I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. |
heater inspection
In rec.autos.tech, on Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:42:55 -0500, Paul in Houston
TX wrote: micky wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Okay, that answers my question, there is at least one state. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. She was in Massachusetts, which allows someone to get his money back if he takes it for inspectation within 7 days of purchase, it fails, and he tells the seller about this in 14 days. Even on an asis sale. But she never took if for inspection. My mother lived in Pa. and for years had a heater core that leaked. I tried drilling a hole in the floor board and threading a wick through it, under the carpet, but it didn't work. Maybe antifreeze and water doesn't wick well, and anyway, the wick blew away after being in the wind for 1000 miles. Pa. had inspection twice a year thne and I'm sure this wouldn't have caused a failure, though Pa. does more than inspect for safety. If you've go Maryland doesn't inspect the cooling system at all: http://coopersautoservicemd.com/mary...ion-checklist/ |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:45:08 AM UTC-4, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
micky wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? |
heater inspection
On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 00:19:29 -0400, micky
wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Every single one if it causes (and it usually will) an antifreeze fog on the inside of the windscreen when the defroster/defogger is used. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 02:51:22 -0400, micky
wrote: In rec.autos.tech, on Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:42:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote: micky wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Okay, that answers my question, there is at least one state. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. She was in Massachusetts, which allows someone to get his money back if he takes it for inspectation within 7 days of purchase, it fails, and he tells the seller about this in 14 days. Even on an asis sale. But she never took if for inspection. My mother lived in Pa. and for years had a heater core that leaked. I tried drilling a hole in the floor board and threading a wick through it, under the carpet, but it didn't work. Maybe antifreeze and water doesn't wick well, and anyway, the wick blew away after being in the wind for 1000 miles. Pa. had inspection twice a year thne and I'm sure this wouldn't have caused a failure, though Pa. does more than inspect for safety. If you've go Maryland doesn't inspect the cooling system at all: http://coopersautoservicemd.com/mary...ion-checklist/ Interesting they do not even require the defroster to work????? |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 6:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:
NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. Exception for fuel leaks? If oil drips or radiator leaks mattered, none of my cars in the 60's would have passed. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? MA does not care if your heater core leaks or if you **** on the seat. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:39:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/8/2017 6:56 AM, trader_4 wrote: NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. Exception for fuel leaks? If oil drips or radiator leaks mattered, none of my cars in the 60's would have passed. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? MA does not care if your heater core leaks or if you **** on the seat. Florida doesn't inspect cars at all unless you live in one of the polluted blue cities. Then they scan for emission codes. |
heater inspection
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heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote:
In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:30:18 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote:
In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. -- RonNNN Thinking it through more, you're right. I was thinking valve off, no flow. But you're right, the return line is still open and going back to the coolant loop, so it will leak. Probably not as much, but it would leak unless it's some unusual design that cuts off both paths. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 07:38:02 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:30:18 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. -- RonNNN Thinking it through more, you're right. I was thinking valve off, no flow. But you're right, the return line is still open and going back to the coolant loop, so it will leak. Probably not as much, but it would leak unless it's some unusual design that cuts off both paths. +1 |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 03:56:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:45:08 AM UTC-4, Paul in Houston TX wrote: micky wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? When did NJ kill off their auto safety inspections? |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 10:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:30:18 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. -- RonNNN Thinking it through more, you're right. I was thinking valve off, no flow. But you're right, the return line is still open and going back to the coolant loop, so it will leak. Probably not as much, but it would leak unless it's some unusual design that cuts off both paths. When my '61 Pontiac heater leaked, I took off the hoses from the heater and put a piece of copper tubing to join them. Of course today, I'm not sure if I could even find the hoses under the hood. I was at a radiator shop when a guy came in with a leaking heater. Book time was 8 hours labor to get it out and then back in. Ford Taurus. |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 03:56:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:45:08 AM UTC-4, Paul in Houston TX wrote: micky wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? When did NJ kill off their auto safety inspections? Boy, that whole inspection thing is a classic cluster f* subject here. Originally, going back at least through the 60s,they tested ball joints, brakes test for stopping power, headlight aiming, horn, lights, all glass, tire tread, etc. But no emissions. Then I guess in 80s they started including emissions. By the time of Christie Whitman the federal EPA insisted that NJ had to do a more extensive emissions test that included running the car on a dyno, measuring the tailpipe emissions. This was mid 90s. It was going to cost the state several hundred million to totally overhaul the state inspection stations to comply and install the new equipment that didn't even exist. Instead of fighting this classic EPA extremism, Whitman put up little fight and caved in. They awarded the contract to an out of state company. It wound up over budget, late and when they finally installed it, it didn't work right, inspection times went through the roof, there were cars lined up for half a mile waiting hours. People were failing taking their cars to be fixed and finding out nothing was wrong. It took a few years to get it to work right. At that point that still tested everything, plus the epa dyno test. Then, just a few years later EPA decides using the OBD data from the car is all that's required! So, NJ then tore out all that hundreds of millions in east that never did a damn bit of good and junked it. This was mid 2000's.. By around 2010 they decided to scrap all the other tests, except for emissions via OBD. Also, if you have an older car, pretty OBDII I think, you don't have to ever go again. I have a classic Mercedes and that's one nice thing, no more inspection at all. That example is a classic of how the EPA can be extreme, out of control and really screw a lot of people and waste billions. They knew what Detroit was doing, that it wouldn't be too long before you could just use OBD, but they didn't care. Or were in bed with those that benefitted. |
heater inspection
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heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:30:19 -0500, RonNNN wrote:
In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 11:09:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/8/2017 10:38 AM, trader_4 wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:30:18 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. -- RonNNN Thinking it through more, you're right. I was thinking valve off, no flow. But you're right, the return line is still open and going back to the coolant loop, so it will leak. Probably not as much, but it would leak unless it's some unusual design that cuts off both paths. When my '61 Pontiac heater leaked, I took off the hoses from the heater and put a piece of copper tubing to join them. Of course today, I'm not sure if I could even find the hoses under the hood. I was at a radiator shop when a guy came in with a leaking heater. Book time was 8 hours labor to get it out and then back in. Ford Taurus. Try it on a Jag XJC. About 18 hours, and no short cuts. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 12:41:10 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 09:46:02 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:39:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 6:56 AM, trader_4 wrote: NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. Exception for fuel leaks? If oil drips or radiator leaks mattered, none of my cars in the 60's would have passed. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? MA does not care if your heater core leaks or if you **** on the seat. Florida doesn't inspect cars at all unless you live in one of the polluted blue cities. Then they scan for emission codes. Pretty obvious when you drive there. Some of the worst clunkers I've seen on the road ANYWHERE - and I've driven in a lot of "third world" areas. So what? They were still passing you. |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 1:44 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 12:41:10 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 09:46:02 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:39:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 6:56 AM, trader_4 wrote: NJ, MV inspection doesn't care about leaks, it's emissions compliance only. Exception for fuel leaks? If oil drips or radiator leaks mattered, none of my cars in the 60's would have passed. I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. The state was MA, why don't you google for what they check at inspection? MA does not care if your heater core leaks or if you **** on the seat. Florida doesn't inspect cars at all unless you live in one of the polluted blue cities. Then they scan for emission codes. Pretty obvious when you drive there. Some of the worst clunkers I've seen on the road ANYWHERE - and I've driven in a lot of "third world" areas. So what? They were still passing you. e have limited inspection in CT. The accident rate is no worse than states that do inspections. Responsible people get their car repaired. Irresponsible people find ways around the inspection. |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:30:19 -0500, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC This is shocking misinformation. Why in the world would any climate control or even manual AC be putting heat into the heater core unnecessarily while trying to cool the car? They're fighting for anything that can improve fuel economy and they have the heater core putting extra heat in the cabin? WTF? Why would they do that? And all it takes is to close a valve that's already there. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 15:09:43 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/8/2017 1:44 PM, wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 12:41:10 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 09:46:02 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:39:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Florida doesn't inspect cars at all unless you live in one of the polluted blue cities. Then they scan for emission codes. Pretty obvious when you drive there. Some of the worst clunkers I've seen on the road ANYWHERE - and I've driven in a lot of "third world" areas. So what? They were still passing you. e have limited inspection in CT. The accident rate is no worse than states that do inspections. Responsible people get their car repaired. Irresponsible people find ways around the inspection. That was pretty much what Florida figured out 40 years ago. It did not have any noticeable effect on our accident rate either. Most accidents involve alcohol or general inattention anyway (phones, food/drink or screwing with electronic things on the dash), not equipment failure. As was pointed out here, most inspection these days is just dumping the codes on the computer anyway. |
heater inspection
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heater inspection
In article ,
says... On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:30:19 -0500, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC Without trying to step on any toes, I retired from automotive after over 45 years in the business over three years ago. I was just pointing out the simple fact that flow has nothing to do with whether a heater core will leak or not. I even almost suggested T-4 ask you, since they seem to take your word for all things relating to automotive. -- RonNNN |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 4:59 PM, Trumpster wrote:
Inspections are just another government cash grab. All they do is waste our time and money. Just another way for the government to take money from the taxpayers and give it to the lazy stupid democrats. In PA and MA that states get very little of the money. The real cash grab is the shoddy independent inspection shops. Yes, Mrs. Trumpster, your ball joints failed the inspection and it is dangerous to even drive home. For a mere $895 dollars we can fix it this afternoon. |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 5:32:58 PM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:30:19 -0500, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:19:27 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I don't see how any state inspection would spot a leaking heater core, unless it's pouring out. In warm weather, the coolant flow is off, there would be no leaking. Wrong. -- RonNNN So, you have hot water flowing through your heater core when it 80 outside and the car interior is set to 70? Must be a unique car. There may not be flow, but there is pressure on the hoses and core, and it *WILL* still leak. There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC Without trying to step on any toes, I retired from automotive after over 45 years in the business over three years ago. I was just pointing out the simple fact that flow has nothing to do with whether a heater core will leak or not. I even almost suggested T-4 ask you, since they seem to take your word for all things relating to automotive. -- RonNNN IDK what all cars do, but it seems highly illogical to try to regulate the cabin temp by having a heater core going at full blast all the time, even when the AC is on. The heater core is in the cabin, correct? Even if it's not directly in the air flow, you'd still have an enormous amount of heat generated by it in summer when the AC is on. Why would you make the AC work harder, eating up gas mileage when a simple valve can regulate the amount of heat from zero to max? And I know for sure late model BMWs use a coolant flow valve to the heater core, I've seen it with my own two eyes. Maybe Clare can explain why this heat from an always on heater core isn't a problem and why it's a better design than a circuit with a simple solenoid valve. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 12:43:46 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote: There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC This is shocking misinformation. Why in the world would any climate control or even manual AC be putting heat into the heater core unnecessarily while trying to cool the car? They're fighting for anything that can improve fuel economy and they have the heater core putting extra heat in the cabin? WTF? Why would they do that? And all it takes is to close a valve that's already there. No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 7:58:34 PM UTC-5, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 12:43:46 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote: There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC This is shocking misinformation. Why in the world would any climate control or even manual AC be putting heat into the heater core unnecessarily while trying to cool the car? They're fighting for anything that can improve fuel economy and they have the heater core putting extra heat in the cabin? WTF? Why would they do that? And all it takes is to close a valve that's already there. No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. Some of my old Mopars had a cable run to a water flow control valve on the hot water supply line to the heater core. I've seen some vehicles that had a vacuum controlled hot water valve for the heater core. I haven't been under the hood of any vehicles produced in the 21st century so I've no idea what's being used now.ヽ(ヅ)ノ [8~{} Uncle Heated Monster |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 8:58:34 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 12:43:46 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote: There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC This is shocking misinformation. Why in the world would any climate control or even manual AC be putting heat into the heater core unnecessarily while trying to cool the car? They're fighting for anything that can improve fuel economy and they have the heater core putting extra heat in the cabin? WTF? Why would they do that? And all it takes is to close a valve that's already there. No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. If that heater core is in the cabin, which it is in every car I've ever worked on, then it is extra heat because it's 210F all the time. If you put a radiator in a box in your house, you don't think it would contribute to the AC load? And are you sure that there isn't a valve in those GM vehicles? It isn't typically right at the heater core, it's in the hose circuit under the hood. That is how it's done in BMW and MB. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. Which is irrelevant. I know the heat is free. It's the heat you don't want in the cabin when it's 85F outside and you have the AC on that's the issue. That is going to contribute to the AC load and pull down fuel economy, as I see it. And in the vehicles I've worked on, it hasn't been a problem, because there is a valve to regulate the heater core flow. |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 18:15:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 8:58:34 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 12:43:46 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 12:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote: There will be flow too, in MOST cars still on the road. The vast majority do not control water flow through the heater core any more - they just control air flow, either through or around. This is particularly true of cars with "climate control" or automatic temperature control / AC This is shocking misinformation. Why in the world would any climate control or even manual AC be putting heat into the heater core unnecessarily while trying to cool the car? They're fighting for anything that can improve fuel economy and they have the heater core putting extra heat in the cabin? WTF? Why would they do that? And all it takes is to close a valve that's already there. No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. If that heater core is in the cabin, which it is in every car I've ever worked on, then it is extra heat because it's 210F all the time. If you put a radiator in a box in your house, you don't think it would contribute to the AC load? And are you sure that there isn't a valve in those GM vehicles? It isn't typically right at the heater core, it's in the hose circuit under the hood. That is how it's done in BMW and MB. No, not for the heater cores I've replaced. I've changed the heater hoses too. The box is small and when the mixer door to it is closed there is no - or very minor - heat transfer to the cabin. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote: No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975. NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart. Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys. |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 10:40 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote: No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975. NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart. Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys. Looks like they have a valve http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/196...ter_valve.html |
heater inspection
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote: No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975. NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart. Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys. Maybe you just need to look harder? http://www.ebay.com/itm/HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Heater-Valve-Front-4-Seasons-74603-/272744018440?fits=Make%3APontiac|Model%3AGrand+Am& epid=75725794&hash=item3f80cf7208:g:BhoAAOSwq7JUAT Wl&vxp=mtr If you give us the year for the vehicles in question we can look at accurate part info. But just googling for Pontiac Grand Am, looking on Ebay, etc obviously at least some of them used heater valves. |
heater inspection
In rec.autos.tech, on Sat, 08 Jul 2017 09:19:02 -0400,
wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 02:51:22 -0400, micky wrote: In rec.autos.tech, on Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:42:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote: micky wrote: I'm only acquainted with car inspection in Pa.and Md. but on TV I saw a woman who bougght a used car, found out that the heater core was leaking, and didn't take it for inspection until after she fixed the heater. Is there any state where that would cause a car to fail inspection? Not enough information. However, ANY leaks that were noticeable in any vehicle system would fail the Texas inspection. Okay, that answers my question, there is at least one state. Texas does not take the car apart for inspections like in other states though. Nothing is removed. She was in Massachusetts, which allows someone to get his money back if he takes it for inspectation within 7 days of purchase, it fails, and he tells the seller about this in 14 days. Even on an asis sale. But she never took if for inspection. My mother lived in Pa. and for years had a heater core that leaked. I tried drilling a hole in the floor board and threading a wick through it, under the carpet, but it didn't work. Maybe antifreeze and water doesn't wick well, and anyway, the wick blew away after being in the wind for 1000 miles. Pa. had inspection twice a year thne and I'm sure this wouldn't have caused a failure, though Pa. does more than inspect for safety. If you've go Maryland doesn't inspect the cooling system at all: http://coopersautoservicemd.com/mary...ion-checklist/ Interesting they do not even require the defroster to work????? That would certainly be a good idea, but the Coopers Auto page doesn't list it. He lists wipers but not ws washers. (Nope, not listed. See link at bottom.) Maybe it's not complete. I had tried to find the State of Maryland rules directly, but only found a 150 page pdf file. They should make it easier to find so people can do their own inspection beforee they take it, since they only get 30 days to finish once they start. The last car the guy said I couldn't pass because of some oil dripping on the exhaust pipe. I don't see that on the list either. He passed me for an extra 10 or 20 dollars. The inspection is only once, each time a car is sold used. Although if the police notice something from the list, they can make you fix it. This is all I could find on a state webpage http://www.mva.maryland.gov/about-mv.../58000-01T.htm : Appendix A: Vehicle Parts or Systems to be Inspected for passenger cars Steering system • Wheel alignment • Suspension • Brake system • Wheels / tires • Fuel system • Exhaust system • Bumpers • Fenders • Lights • Electrical system • Mirrors • Glazing (windows) • Wipers • Hood / catches • Door handle latches • Floor / trunk pans • Speedometer / odometer • Driver seat • Safety belts • Motor mounts • Gear shift indicator • Universal and CV (constant velocity) joints • Emissions equipment Ah, here is the image of an actual Report checklist from 2010: https://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-m...checklist.html Maybe the standards were adopted before cars had defrosters. ;) |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 20:03:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote: No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975. NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart. Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys. Maybe you just need to look harder? http://www.ebay.com/itm/HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Heater-Valve-Front-4-Seasons-74603-/272744018440?fits=Make%3APontiac|Model%3AGrand+Am& epid=75725794&hash=item3f80cf7208:g:BhoAAOSwq7JUAT Wl&vxp=mtr If you give us the year for the vehicles in question we can look at accurate part info. But just googling for Pontiac Grand Am, looking on Ebay, etc obviously at least some of them used heater valves. This has really drifted off topic Even if there was a valve, it only stops one direction of flow and since the system is pressurized a leak in the heater core would still drip, coming in from the other side. Yes I have had a leaking heater core and the only way to stop from steaming up the car is to pipe around the heater core as mentioned in a previous post. I got rid of my 75 Monza for exactly that reason. Replacing it would have involved removing the whole dash according to the Chevy dealer. It was OK all summer but I was not going into a DC winter without a heater. |
heater inspection
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 20:03:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote: No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975. NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart. Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys. Maybe you just need to look harder? http://www.ebay.com/itm/HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Heater-Valve-Front-4-Seasons-74603-/272744018440?fits=Make%3APontiac|Model%3AGrand+Am& epid=75725794&hash=item3f80cf7208:g:BhoAAOSwq7JUAT Wl&vxp=mtr If you give us the year for the vehicles in question we can look at accurate part info. But just googling for Pontiac Grand Am, looking on Ebay, etc obviously at least some of them used heater valves. I'll repeat, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." Here's my Pontiac. 1995 Pontiac GT. 3.3 liter engine. Good luck finding the non-existant heater control valve. My 2003 Chevy Impala with the 3.4 likewise. Won't bother naming all the vehicles I've had with no heater control valve. All of them. A valve on a heater hose is too obvious to miss for anybody who works on their engines, and hose maintenance comes with the territory. I see the '66 F100 came equipped with one, but it was gone before I personally removed the 352 ci engine twice, replacing all hoses once. I never missed it. |
heater inspection
On 7/8/2017 11:39 PM, micky wrote:
Interesting they do not even require the defroster to work????? That would certainly be a good idea, but the Coopers Auto page doesn't list it. He lists wipers but not ws washers. (Nope, not listed. See link at bottom.) Ah, here is the image of an actual Report checklist from 2010: https://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-m...checklist.html Maybe the standards were adopted before cars had defrosters. ;) When I lived in PA had many cars inspected. No one ever checked the defroster or the washers. One never checked brakes either. I has a '64 Karmen Ghia convertible that I paid $15 for. The heat ducts were rusted out so no heat, no defrost. I used to carry a squeegee and an ice scraper. Many things on that car should never pass inspection, but I always had a sticker on it. |
heater inspection
On 7/9/2017 4:24 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 20:03:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote: No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow. It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them. And their is no "extra" heat. Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient. It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have changed? https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini Google heater core valve and then click on images. This is GM specific https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638 Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975. NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart. Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys. Maybe you just need to look harder? http://www.ebay.com/itm/HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Heater-Valve-Front-4-Seasons-74603-/272744018440?fits=Make%3APontiac|Model%3AGrand+Am& epid=75725794&hash=item3f80cf7208:g:BhoAAOSwq7JUAT Wl&vxp=mtr If you give us the year for the vehicles in question we can look at accurate part info. But just googling for Pontiac Grand Am, looking on Ebay, etc obviously at least some of them used heater valves. I'll repeat, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them." Here's my Pontiac. 1995 Pontiac GT. 3.3 liter engine. Good luck finding the non-existant heater control valve. My 2003 Chevy Impala with the 3.4 likewise. Won't bother naming all the vehicles I've had with no heater control valve. All of them. A valve on a heater hose is too obvious to miss for anybody who works on their engines, and hose maintenance comes with the territory. I see the '66 F100 came equipped with one, but it was gone before I personally removed the 352 ci engine twice, replacing all hoses once. I never missed it. Sorry Vic, but I found it in less than a minute. Please, stop it. Cars have heater valves. Exception being air cooled engines. My Corvair and Karmen Ghias did not have them. https://www.google.com/search?q=1995...X9v7JjSEMp7iM: |
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