I have a 130' well with the pump at about 115', 6" casing, and a
recharge rate of between 3 and 3.5 gpm. Current delivery system uses
a 1/2 HP submersible well pump to deliver to an old galvanized
pressure tank with 30/50 setting.

Unfortunately, there are 5 people and a half acre of land that all
want to use this water and the system can't always keep up. A 1/2"
garden hose carelessly left on can (and has!) empty the well in a
couple of hours. To prevent this in the future, I am modifying the
system by adding an atmospheric storage tank, booster pump and new
pressure tank.

I've already bought a 1100 gal poly storage tank and installed it
where it will go. However, I thought I should get a reality check on
my planned layout from those who have done this before.

The system as I envision it will go something like

----------------float switch---------------------------
| |
well pump - flow restrictor (3gpm) - check valve - storage tank -
booster pump - pressure tank - house, etc.

The flow restrictor will be to keep the delivery to the storage tank
within the recharge rate of the well. The well pump will be
controlled by a float switch. The booster pump by a pressure switch
with an additional float switch to prevent pumping the storage tank
dry. At some future point, there will be a filter between the
pressure tank and the house, but that's a separate project.

The booster pump will have to provide 12-15 gpm at a maximum lift of
about 20' (the second floor) and roughly 30 psi.

To preempt any "why don't you have a professional do this" I will say
that I got a couple of bids and they wanted about $3000 more than I've
got (bids in the $4500 range). So that option isn't available right
now.

So what I need from the kind readers of these newsgroups is

1) an opinion on whether you think it'll work and any suggestions you
might have on how to make it work better.

2) a recommendation on pump manufacturers as to reliability and
affordability. As far as I can tell from reading these groups, Goulds
and Grundfos get the thumbs up most of the time, but what I'm trying
to determine is whether there are other pumps that will do a decent
job at a lower price. To make this clearer, I've been told that you
can get 30 years of reliable service out of a Goulds, but they cost
about $600. What I want to know is if there is a pump that will give
me, say 15-20 years of good service at $300-350? This is after all an
easily accessible and therefore replacable pump.

Thanks.

"F. Stephans" wrote in message
om...
I have a 130' well with the pump at about 115', 6" casing, and a
recharge rate of between 3 and 3.5 gpm. Current delivery system uses
a 1/2 HP submersible well pump to deliver to an old galvanized
pressure tank with 30/50 setting.

Unfortunately, there are 5 people and a half acre of land that all
want to use this water and the system can't always keep up. A 1/2"
garden hose carelessly left on can (and has!) empty the well in a
couple of hours. To prevent this in the future, I am modifying the
system by adding an atmospheric storage tank, booster pump and new
pressure tank.

I've already bought a 1100 gal poly storage tank and installed it
where it will go. However, I thought I should get a reality check on
my planned layout from those who have done this before.

The system as I envision it will go something like

----------------float switch---------------------------
| |
well pump - flow restrictor (3gpm) - check valve - storage tank -
booster pump - pressure tank - house, etc.

The flow restrictor will be to keep the delivery to the storage tank
within the recharge rate of the well. The well pump will be
controlled by a float switch. The booster pump by a pressure switch
with an additional float switch to prevent pumping the storage tank
dry. At some future point, there will be a filter between the
pressure tank and the house, but that's a separate project.

The booster pump will have to provide 12-15 gpm at a maximum lift of
about 20' (the second floor) and roughly 30 psi.

To preempt any "why don't you have a professional do this" I will say
that I got a couple of bids and they wanted about $3000 more than I've
got (bids in the $4500 range). So that option isn't available right
now.

So what I need from the kind readers of these newsgroups is

1) an opinion on whether you think it'll work and any suggestions you
might have on how to make it work better.

2) a recommendation on pump manufacturers as to reliability and
affordability. As far as I can tell from reading these groups, Goulds
and Grundfos get the thumbs up most of the time, but what I'm trying
to determine is whether there are other pumps that will do a decent
job at a lower price. To make this clearer, I've been told that you
can get 30 years of reliable service out of a Goulds, but they cost
about $600. What I want to know is if there is a pump that will give
me, say 15-20 years of good service at $300-350? This is after all an
easily accessible and therefore replacable pump.

Thanks.


How are you going to keep bacteria from growing in the storage tank?

On 3 Jun 2004 16:21:13 -0700, (F. Stephans) wrote:

I have a 130' well with the pump at about 115', 6" casing, and a
recharge rate of between 3 and 3.5 gpm. Current delivery system uses
a 1/2 HP submersible well pump to deliver to an old galvanized
pressure tank with 30/50 setting.

Unfortunately, there are 5 people and a half acre of land that all
want to use this water and the system can't always keep up. A 1/2"
garden hose carelessly left on can (and has!) empty the well in a
couple of hours. To prevent this in the future, I am modifying the
system by adding an atmospheric storage tank, booster pump and new
pressure tank.

I've already bought a 1100 gal poly storage tank and installed it
where it will go. However, I thought I should get a reality check on
my planned layout from those who have done this before.

The system as I envision it will go something like

----------------float switch---------------------------
| |
well pump - flow restrictor (3gpm) - check valve - storage tank -
booster pump - pressure tank - house, etc.

The flow restrictor will be to keep the delivery to the storage tank
within the recharge rate of the well. The well pump will be
controlled by a float switch. The booster pump by a pressure switch
with an additional float switch to prevent pumping the storage tank
dry. At some future point, there will be a filter between the
pressure tank and the house, but that's a separate project.

The booster pump will have to provide 12-15 gpm at a maximum lift of
about 20' (the second floor) and roughly 30 psi.

To preempt any "why don't you have a professional do this" I will say
that I got a couple of bids and they wanted about $3000 more than I've
got (bids in the $4500 range). So that option isn't available right
now.

So what I need from the kind readers of these newsgroups is

1) an opinion on whether you think it'll work and any suggestions you
might have on how to make it work better.

2) a recommendation on pump manufacturers as to reliability and
affordability. As far as I can tell from reading these groups, Goulds
and Grundfos get the thumbs up most of the time, but what I'm trying
to determine is whether there are other pumps that will do a decent
job at a lower price. To make this clearer, I've been told that you
can get 30 years of reliable service out of a Goulds, but they cost
about $600. What I want to know is if there is a pump that will give
me, say 15-20 years of good service at $300-350? This is after all an
easily accessible and therefore replacable pump.

Thanks.

Have you thought about trying to set up a system to catch rainwater to take some
of the pressure off the well?

(The Watcher) wrote in message ...

----------------float switch---------------------------
| |
well pump - flow restrictor (3gpm) - check valve - storage tank -
booster pump - pressure tank - house, etc.

Have you thought about trying to set up a system to catch rainwater to take some
of the pressure off the well?

Like a cistern, above or below ground.

Hopefully, the users on the system are already practicing water conservation?

Linda H.

In article 7dSvc.14876$sI.12673@attbi_s52,
(Oscar_Lives) says...

How are you going to keep bacteria from growing in the storage tank?

Not a problem. Toss a cup of bleach in there once a month and it will
stay squeeky clean.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

In article ,
(F. Stephans) says...

So what I need from the kind readers of these newsgroups is

1) an opinion on whether you think it'll work and any suggestions you
might have on how to make it work better.

It will work fine. That's very similar to the system I have installed.
I use a 2500 gallon tank, but that's about the only difference. You
could also flow restrict your well to a lower rate to avoid any
possibility that it will run dry. At 2.5 gpm, the well will pump 1100
gallons in 7.33 hours.

2) a recommendation on pump manufacturers as to reliability and
affordability. As far as I can tell from reading these groups, Goulds
and Grundfos get the thumbs up most of the time, but what I'm trying
to determine is whether there are other pumps that will do a decent
job at a lower price. To make this clearer, I've been told that you
can get 30 years of reliable service out of a Goulds, but they cost
about $600. What I want to know is if there is a pump that will give
me, say 15-20 years of good service at $300-350? This is after all an
easily accessible and therefore replacable pump.

Separate the pump and the motor in your mind. The pump will last until
the seals wear out. You can replace the seals and run it for another
century or so.

The motor will run until the starter contacts or bearings wear out.
Since there is no lateral load, the bearings will run for decades. The
contacts will depend on how often the pump kicks on and off. The larger
your pressure tank, the longer the motor will last.

I would advise a trip to Lowe's. I saw a nice looking 1/2 hp shallow
well jet pump for $149 at Lowe's a couple weeks ago. It had a GE motor,
and should run fine. With positive pressure on the suction, a 1/2 hp
centrifugal pump will push a LOT of water. Spend your money a large
bladder pressure tank, in the 60-80 gallon range. Replace the pressure
switch on the pump with one that has a low pressure shutoff, so if the
cistern goes dry the pump shuts down.

Don't forget that you need a check valve between the pump and the
cistern.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

On 3 Jun 2004 16:21:13 -0700, (F. Stephans)
wrote:

I have a 130' well with the pump at about 115', 6" casing, and a
recharge rate of between 3 and 3.5 gpm. Current delivery system uses
a 1/2 HP submersible well pump to deliver to an old galvanized
pressure tank with 30/50 setting.

Unfortunately, there are 5 people and a half acre of land that all
want to use this water and the system can't always keep up. A 1/2"
garden hose carelessly left on can (and has!) empty the well in a
couple of hours. To prevent this in the future, I am modifying the
system by adding an atmospheric storage tank, booster pump and new
pressure tank.

I've already bought a 1100 gal poly storage tank and installed it
where it will go. However, I thought I should get a reality check on
my planned layout from those who have done this before.

The system as I envision it will go something like

----------------float switch---------------------------
| |
well pump - flow restrictor (3gpm) - check valve - storage tank -
booster pump - pressure tank - house, etc.

The flow restrictor will be to keep the delivery to the storage tank
within the recharge rate of the well.

Instead of the flow restrictor, you might consider putting a timer on
the well pump. Good - more flexibility in getting the max. amount from
the well, and a little faster tank filling and shorter cycles perhaps.
Bad - higher cost, and some initial monitoring to verify optimum
timing. Might result in additional pump cycles.

As a backup (but not as a primary system!), add a pump protection
device in the control box.

The well pump will be
controlled by a float switch. The booster pump by a pressure switch
with an additional float switch to prevent pumping the storage tank
dry.

The additional float won't be needed if you use a low-pressure cutoff
style pressure-switch. Requires manual reset anytime pump pressure
drops too low, which is usually because tank is empty. Good - cheaper,
simpler. Will stop worn pump from running to death. Will also stop
pump before tank runs dry if the pump can't keep with a downstream
pipe break. Bad - will also require manual intervention after a power
failure if water use causes pressure to drop too far while power is
off. So not a good idea if the pressure switch is hard to access,
especially if you have frequent power failures.

Wayne

In article ,
(Tallgrass) wrote:

Hopefully, the users on the system are already practicing water conservation?

The only way to get users to practice water conservation is to put a
meter on it and charge for water usage. Suddenly you will have lots of
water.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Larry Caldwell wrote:
In article ,
(F. Stephans) says...
So what I need from the kind readers of these newsgroups is
1) an opinion on whether you think it'll work and any suggestions you
might have on how to make it work better.

It will work fine. That's very similar to the system I have installed.
I use a 2500 gallon tank, but that's about the only difference. You
could also flow restrict your well to a lower rate to avoid any
possibility that it will run dry. At 2.5 gpm, the well will pump 1100
gallons in 7.33 hours.

What does a 2500 gallon tank cost? Is it buried? It's plastic of
some kind I assume.

(pondering rain water capture, but it could be just stupid in
california where it rains 4-5 months, then doesn't at all until
the next Nov.).

Rain water: If you get enough rain, it doesn't matter if it comes all
in 5 months --- except that the more concentrated the collecting, the
more storage you'll need. Read about a study for a lady in Texas,
similar rainfall pattern: plan wasn't feasible as she needed too much
storage.

From my experience, rain water collects MUCH faster than one would
guess. I put a 55 barrel under a downspout (1 of 2 downspouts
collecting from ~ 250 sqft of roof). I wasn't expecting to collect
water too fast: late afternoon downpour and I could actually see the
water level rising in the (opague white plastic) barrel. Seven minutes
later, 55 gallons and overflowing. I was out in the rain re-directing
the gutter back to the sewer pipe. Figure that was 0.02 inches per
minute (I'm guessing 2/3 of the water went into the downspout I
collected from) but that comes to 1.25 inches of rain per hour.

If you do decide to go the rain water route, let us know: there's a
bunch of stuff you need to check out.

Good luck.
Bill



"Chuck Yerkes" wrote in message
news:25Swc.16245$Sw.12946@attbi_s51...
Larry Caldwell wrote:
In article ,
(F. Stephans) says...
So what I need from the kind readers of these newsgroups is
1) an opinion on whether you think it'll work and any suggestions
you
might have on how to make it work better.

It will work fine. That's very similar to the system I have
installed.
I use a 2500 gallon tank, but that's about the only difference.
You
could also flow restrict your well to a lower rate to avoid any
possibility that it will run dry. At 2.5 gpm, the well will pump
1100
gallons in 7.33 hours.

What does a 2500 gallon tank cost? Is it buried? It's plastic of
some kind I assume.

(pondering rain water capture, but it could be just stupid in
california where it rains 4-5 months, then doesn't at all until
the next Nov.).

In article 25Swc.16245$Sw.12946@attbi_s51,
(Chuck Yerkes) says...

What does a 2500 gallon tank cost? Is it buried? It's plastic of
some kind I assume.

It cost me about $700, on sale at the farmer's co-op. It is an above
ground tank, and yes, it is a black plastic, which minimizes algae
growth. I have it set above the level of the house, so when the power
goes out we have gravity feed water from the cistern, with enough
pressure to flush the toilets.

2500 gallons lasts us about 10 days in the summer, with no irrigation.
The well did go dry a couple years ago during a "drought of the
century" scenario. I had water hauled in by truck. The most a dual
axle tanker can haul is about 1800 gallons, so I could take a full load.

During normal drought years, the well just goes low flow in the summer.
I keep it regulated to 1 gpm, which is plenty to keep the cistern full.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

In article ,
(bill) says...
Rain water: If you get enough rain, it doesn't matter if it comes all
in 5 months --- except that the more concentrated the collecting, the
more storage you'll need. Read about a study for a lady in Texas,
similar rainfall pattern: plan wasn't feasible as she needed too much
storage.

At 200 gallons a day for a family of 4, to get you through a 200 day
drought, all you would need is 40,000 gallons of storage. That's about
three stainless steel milk tanks off of semi trucks. For short term
storage, I would probably just buy an above ground swimming pool and
build a cover over it. For a long term water storage installation, I
would cast an in-ground concrete tank and line it with a plastic liner.
It would probably be cheaper than 4 of these guys:

http://www.watertanks.com/category/273/

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Larry Caldwell wrote:

In article 25Swc.16245$Sw.12946@attbi_s51,
(Chuck Yerkes) says...


What does a 2500 gallon tank cost? Is it buried? It's plastic of
some kind I assume.

It cost me about $700, on sale at the farmer's co-op. It is an above
ground tank, and yes, it is a black plastic, which minimizes algae
growth. I have it set above the level of the house, so when the power
goes out we have gravity feed water from the cistern, with enough
pressure to flush the toilets.

2500 gallons lasts us about 10 days in the summer, with no irrigation.
The well did go dry a couple years ago during a "drought of the
century" scenario. I had water hauled in by truck. The most a dual
axle tanker can haul is about 1800 gallons, so I could take a full load.

During normal drought years, the well just goes low flow in the summer.
I keep it regulated to 1 gpm, which is plenty to keep the cistern full.

Hmmm, I'm doomed (it's a bit more vertical here than horizontal).
My thoughts were more for collecting water for "grey water use" like
watering plants, etc rather than for human consumption.

It's always kind of struck me that were houses plumbed to expect
dual water inputs, we could save a ton of water. My toilet doesn't
really need potable water. Sinks and showers reasonably would.
My hose outlets need not be 100% pure water. I wash a car or plants
and they can take reasonably filtered water just fine.

With 6 consecutive drought months (fog and dew keep native plants
alive), it wouldn't be worthwhile to do this with just a couple hundred
gallons. But maybe if I find a pair of 55gal drums to take roofwater,
I can at least hit plants with it. No qualms about hitting it with
a little bleach.