As the subject suggests, I am wondering if my first floor bath remodel
requires reinforcing my floor joists. I'll probably end up asking an
engineer I'll be consulting anyway, but I would like to have some idea
how these calculations work. The details:

The bathtub weighs 376 lbs and can hold 47 gallons. If a pint's a
pound the world around, that would be another 376 lbs when full. If
two 300 pound people are in the bathtub (worst case), that would make
a total load of 1350 lbs. The bathtub's dimensions are 32" by 66".

The floor system consists of 2" x 9.5" (old nominal 2x10) joists 16"
o.c. spanning 12 feet from the exterior wall to a girder. The joists
run parallel to the bathtub, so there are only two of them directly
underneath. The bathtub is basically centered over the span, as it is
3 feet from the exterior wall. The subfloor is 7/8" thick T+G 1x4s,
on top of which will be 3/8" ACX plywood and linoleum, then the tub.

Does this floor system need reinforcing, and if so, how? Note that I
will be careful not to cut away any of the joists when installing the
plumbing. The sidewall of the bathtub will eventually be an interior
shear wall, as it is over one of the concrete retaining walls of my
half basement, in case that would be of value.

Thanks, Wayne

Just a point, but I don't think the tub would 47 gallons AND 300 pounds of
people. I would be 47 gallons and what ever 300 pounds of people would
displace by volume.

TS

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
As the subject suggests, I am wondering if my first floor bath remodel
requires reinforcing my floor joists. I'll probably end up asking an
engineer I'll be consulting anyway, but I would like to have some idea
how these calculations work. The details:

The bathtub weighs 376 lbs and can hold 47 gallons. If a pint's a
pound the world around, that would be another 376 lbs when full. If
two 300 pound people are in the bathtub (worst case), that would make
a total load of 1350 lbs. The bathtub's dimensions are 32" by 66".

The floor system consists of 2" x 9.5" (old nominal 2x10) joists 16"
o.c. spanning 12 feet from the exterior wall to a girder. The joists
run parallel to the bathtub, so there are only two of them directly
underneath. The bathtub is basically centered over the span, as it is
3 feet from the exterior wall. The subfloor is 7/8" thick T+G 1x4s,
on top of which will be 3/8" ACX plywood and linoleum, then the tub.

Does this floor system need reinforcing, and if so, how? Note that I
will be careful not to cut away any of the joists when installing the
plumbing. The sidewall of the bathtub will eventually be an interior
shear wall, as it is over one of the concrete retaining walls of my
half basement, in case that would be of value.

Thanks, Wayne

Wayne Whitney wrote:

Does this floor system need reinforcing, and if so, how? Note that I
will be careful not to cut away any of the joists when installing the
plumbing.

You reinforce the area by "sistering" the joists, which is where you
attach new joist to the existing joist, and bolt the two together.

After you do that, you have to replace the x bracing between the joists,
since the gap is smaller.

In article , John Hines wrote:

Wayne Whitney wrote:

Does this floor system need reinforcing, and if so, how? Note that I
will be careful not to cut away any of the joists when installing the
plumbing.

You reinforce the area by "sistering" the joists, which is where you
attach new joist to the existing joist, and bolt the two together.

How often should they be bolted? The span is 12 feet. I assume the
bolts (1/2"?) should go through the center line.

Since the bathtub is over just two joists, would it be useful to add
blocking between those two joists and the adjoining joists, to spread
the load over four joists? That would be easier.

As to whether the joists need reinforcing, here's a stab at an answer:
the 32" x 66" bathtub is 14.7 square feet. The extreme load of 1350
pounds I calculated comes out to 92 pounds per square foot. Looking
at a span table for 100 psf live load and 10 psf dead load for 2x10
southern yellow pine gives a span of 12-7 for SS, 12-1 for No. 1, and
10-10 for No. 2. Of course, my joists are not southern yellow pine, I
guess they may be douglas fir. But they are also a full 2" thick, not
1.5" thick.

This computation makes it sound like the existing floor system is
borderline, depending on the grade of the lumber and effect of 2"
thick douglas fir versus 1.5" thick southern yellow pine. Did I do
this analysis correctly?

Thanks,
Wayne

From: Wayne Whitney


In article , John Hines wrote:

Wayne Whitney wrote:

Does this floor system need reinforcing, and if so, how? Note that I
will be careful not to cut away any of the joists when installing the
plumbing.

You reinforce the area by "sistering" the joists, which is where you
attach new joist to the existing joist, and bolt the two together.

How often should they be bolted? The span is 12 feet. I assume the
bolts (1/2"?) should go through the center line.

They should be bolted about every 12" in a zig-zag pattern approx 3" from the
top and bottom.


Since the bathtub is over just two joists, would it be useful to add
blocking between those two joists and the adjoining joists, to spread
the load over four joists? That would be easier.

Blocking won't be effective in spreading the bathtub load horizintally to the
flanking joists.

As to whether the joists need reinforcing, here's a stab at an answer:
the 32" x 66" bathtub is 14.7 square feet. The extreme load of 1350
pounds I calculated comes out to 92 pounds per square foot. Looking
at a span table for 100 psf live load and 10 psf dead load for 2x10
southern yellow pine gives a span of 12-7 for SS, 12-1 for No. 1, and
10-10 for No. 2. Of course, my joists are not southern yellow pine, I
guess they may be douglas fir. But they are also a full 2" thick, not
1.5" thick.

This computation makes it sound like the existing floor system is
borderline, depending on the grade of the lumber and effect of 2"
thick douglas fir versus 1.5" thick southern yellow pine. Did I do
this analysis correctly?

Thanks,
Wayne

Wayne Whitney wrote:

In article , John Hines wrote:

Wayne Whitney wrote:

Does this floor system need reinforcing, and if so, how? Note that I
will be careful not to cut away any of the joists when installing the
plumbing.

You reinforce the area by "sistering" the joists, which is where you
attach new joist to the existing joist, and bolt the two together.

How often should they be bolted? The span is 12 feet. I assume the
bolts (1/2"?) should go through the center line.

No, like the other guy said, spread them out. The bolts don't have to
be that big, there job is holding the two joists together.

Since the bathtub is over just two joists, would it be useful to add
blocking between those two joists and the adjoining joists, to spread
the load over four joists? That would be easier.

No, blocking is to keep the joists from twisting, and to tie them into a
single structure, not to spread load.

As to whether the joists need reinforcing, here's a stab at an answer:
the 32" x 66" bathtub is 14.7 square feet. The extreme load of 1350
pounds I calculated comes out to 92 pounds per square foot. Looking
at a span table for 100 psf live load and 10 psf dead load for 2x10
southern yellow pine gives a span of 12-7 for SS, 12-1 for No. 1, and
10-10 for No. 2. Of course, my joists are not southern yellow pine, I
guess they may be douglas fir. But they are also a full 2" thick, not
1.5" thick.

I'm no engineer, I can barely spell it. G I'm just answering your
question on sistering. What you can look at, is the difference between
a 2x10 and a 4x10, since that is what sistering the joist is doing.

This computation makes it sound like the existing floor system is
borderline, depending on the grade of the lumber and effect of 2"
thick douglas fir versus 1.5" thick southern yellow pine. Did I do
this analysis correctly?

I dunno, I'm a software guy, so I'd load it to the hilt, and when it
crashed through the floor, build is stronger next time. G

Thanks for all the help! I'll probably end up sistering each of the
two joists, to be on the safe side.

Cheers, Wayne

From: John Hines


I dunno, I'm a software guy, so I'd load it to the hilt, and when it
crashed through the floor, build is stronger next time. G


"Uhhhh... my tub crashed."

"Ummm, did you try re-building it?"

"Yea and it's still crashing."

"OK Hit Crushed Ice + Oven Set + Dark toast simultaniously and try re-booting
the house..."