Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:22:52 -0700, "CBHvac"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:39:46 -0400, Trent©
wrote:


Parking lots are done all the time in my area.



Where might this area be that the parking lots are sealed 'all the
time'?

It doesn't appear to be logical for a parking lot operator to go to
the expense of sealing their lot and then take on the added cost of re
striping the lot (interesting thing is if this is in the US they will
have to bring the spaces up to current ADA compliance too!)

Done all the time here in NC......and talk about slick when wet..


but seriously..it IS a common practice here..

What part of NC? Never saw a parking lot get sealed in the 12 years
I've been living in NC (Triangle).

Central NC..bit west of you.
Hell..when I was in Raliegh, several of the lots there were sealed...one or
two on Capital come to mind right off, and thats cause when I was there for
a training class, when we broke for lunch, I was able to slide the van
around like it had casters on it in the rain..

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:39:56 GMT, 'nuther Bob
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:44:02 -0400, wrote:

You seem to forget about oxidation which hardens the asphalt and
increases the chance of cracks, chemical absorbtion that weakens
the asphalt and of course water seepage that will expand a small crack
into a bigger one if the water freezes.

There is more to sealing than cosmetics.


So how come those of use in the freeze thaw states don't see every
parking lot out there being sealed.

Many do. It's a choice the owner of the lot can make.

The only time I see it is when
they are looking to dress up the appearance or move the parking
space alignment. Otherwise it doesn't happen. Must be a big secret
that it's so effective - they don't even share it with businesses
who could buy the service.

Maybe it's a cost they are not willing to pay at the time.. A phrase
comes to mind. "You can pay me now, or pay me later"

There are parking lots that have crack sealer applied to the major
cracks, just like the roads. No surface sealers.

Bob

If they were smart they would use crack sealer along with seal-cote.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:39:56 GMT, 'nuther Bob
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:44:02 -0400, wrote:

You seem to forget about oxidation which hardens the asphalt and
increases the chance of cracks, chemical absorbtion that weakens
the asphalt and of course water seepage that will expand a small crack
into a bigger one if the water freezes.

There is more to sealing than cosmetics.


So how come those of use in the freeze thaw states don't see every
parking lot out there being sealed.

Many do. It's a choice the owner of the lot can make.

The only time I see it is when
they are looking to dress up the appearance or move the parking
space alignment. Otherwise it doesn't happen. Must be a big secret
that it's so effective - they don't even share it with businesses
who could buy the service.

Maybe it's a cost they are not willing to pay at the time.. A phrase
comes to mind. "You can pay me now, or pay me later"

There are parking lots that have crack sealer applied to the major
cracks, just like the roads. No surface sealers.

Bob

If they were smart they would use crack sealer along with seal-cote.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:32:10 GMT, wrote:


That doesn't say much for your skills of observation. I live in
Connecticut and it's a very widespread and common practice. Most of
the guys who do private driveways do it as a side business, using
leftovers from commercial jobs.


And do they also sell bridges they have on hand in Brooklyn? The left
over from commercial jobs is the oldest line in the scam artists work
book - it is the anthem of the "Irish Travelers" as they wend their
way across the northern US every spring through summer!

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:32:10 GMT, wrote:


That doesn't say much for your skills of observation. I live in
Connecticut and it's a very widespread and common practice. Most of
the guys who do private driveways do it as a side business, using
leftovers from commercial jobs.


And do they also sell bridges they have on hand in Brooklyn? The left
over from commercial jobs is the oldest line in the scam artists work
book - it is the anthem of the "Irish Travelers" as they wend their
way across the northern US every spring through summer!

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

wrote in message
...
I'm not aware of any place where they "seal coat" either roads or
parking lots - the closest thing that comes to "sealing" is when they
apply a TOP COAT of gravel and asphalt to a gravel road (and there are
not too many of those left around specifically because of the high
cost of this type of maintenance).

Here in MN, parking lots are done all the time. I've even seen roads
done -- in fact, there's a county road with signs labeled "Seal Coat Test
#12345(whatever)" very near where I live.

-Tim

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

wrote in message
...
I'm not aware of any place where they "seal coat" either roads or
parking lots - the closest thing that comes to "sealing" is when they
apply a TOP COAT of gravel and asphalt to a gravel road (and there are
not too many of those left around specifically because of the high
cost of this type of maintenance).

Here in MN, parking lots are done all the time. I've even seen roads
done -- in fact, there's a county road with signs labeled "Seal Coat Test
#12345(whatever)" very near where I live.

-Tim

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:22:52 GMT, 'nuther Bob
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:05:55 -0400, wrote:


If they were smart they would use crack sealer along with seal-cote.

Sorry, not buying it. If they could demonstrate a cost effective
benefit, you'd see them selling a lot more services. I can drive
all over New England and find nary a sealed lot.

I think my driveway is proof enough. 17 years and counting.
I've have neighbors who have the same age or newer driveways
and they did nothing to them. They have or are now getting new
driveways. It looks like I may get another 10 years or so out of mine.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:22:52 GMT, 'nuther Bob
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:05:55 -0400, wrote:


If they were smart they would use crack sealer along with seal-cote.

Sorry, not buying it. If they could demonstrate a cost effective
benefit, you'd see them selling a lot more services. I can drive
all over New England and find nary a sealed lot.

I think my driveway is proof enough. 17 years and counting.
I've have neighbors who have the same age or newer driveways
and they did nothing to them. They have or are now getting new
driveways. It looks like I may get another 10 years or so out of mine.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
. net...
Here in MN, parking lots are done all the time. I've even seen roads
done -- in fact, there's a county road with signs labeled "Seal Coat Test
#12345(whatever)" very near where I live.

There's also a section of interstate between St Paul and St Cloud that has
this done. It's also listed as a Test Road.

NOI

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
. net...
Here in MN, parking lots are done all the time. I've even seen roads
done -- in fact, there's a county road with signs labeled "Seal Coat Test
#12345(whatever)" very near where I live.

There's also a section of interstate between St Paul and St Cloud that has
this done. It's also listed as a Test Road.

NOI

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

BigAl 8883 writes:

a road mixed asphalt is one heck of a lot different than what you get in
driveways

Different how? You think they have separate asphalt plants for roads
versus driveways? I don't think so.

Go to the plant and ask. The only difference here is the aggregate size.
You want smaller aggregate for driveways to match the thinner application.

The only material differences are aggregate size and overall thickness.
But the homeowner can get shabby application (too cool, not enough
compaction, too wavy, too varied in thickness) that a highway engineer
would reject.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

BigAl 8883 writes:

a road mixed asphalt is one heck of a lot different than what you get in
driveways

Different how? You think they have separate asphalt plants for roads
versus driveways? I don't think so.

Go to the plant and ask. The only difference here is the aggregate size.
You want smaller aggregate for driveways to match the thinner application.

The only material differences are aggregate size and overall thickness.
But the homeowner can get shabby application (too cool, not enough
compaction, too wavy, too varied in thickness) that a highway engineer
would reject.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

Ron Hardin writes:

Cracks come from
ground movement, not lack of sealing.

The potential to crack increases with time. Asphalt is a blend of
hydrocarbons of various high molecular weights (essentially all the stuff
left from crude oil once the more valuable light fractions are removed).
Over a long time the lighter portions evaporate and leave a brittle,
higher-molecular-weight mass behind, and eventually the brittleness will
crack under just about load or weathering.

By the way, "asphalt" means the tar from crude oil. The precise term for
the material used to pave is "asphaltic concrete", consisting of asphalt as
a binder with gravel aggregate.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

Ron Hardin writes:

Cracks come from
ground movement, not lack of sealing.

The potential to crack increases with time. Asphalt is a blend of
hydrocarbons of various high molecular weights (essentially all the stuff
left from crude oil once the more valuable light fractions are removed).
Over a long time the lighter portions evaporate and leave a brittle,
higher-molecular-weight mass behind, and eventually the brittleness will
crack under just about load or weathering.

By the way, "asphalt" means the tar from crude oil. The precise term for
the material used to pave is "asphaltic concrete", consisting of asphalt as
a binder with gravel aggregate.

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:08:08 GMT, "Tim Fischer"
wrote:

On our previous home, everyone in the neighborhood was replacing their
driveways over a period of 5 years -- ours was still in reasonable
condition, because both the previous owner and I sealcoated it.

Interesting when we sold our last house in NJ, it had the same
driveway that had been put in when it was built 17 years earlier,
essentially in the same condition it was in when new (it was not as
dark and black) but after 16 years of snow and ice it suffered no
physical damage and had never been touched with a drop of "sealer".

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:08:08 GMT, "Tim Fischer"
wrote:

On our previous home, everyone in the neighborhood was replacing their
driveways over a period of 5 years -- ours was still in reasonable
condition, because both the previous owner and I sealcoated it.

Interesting when we sold our last house in NJ, it had the same
driveway that had been put in when it was built 17 years earlier,
essentially in the same condition it was in when new (it was not as
dark and black) but after 16 years of snow and ice it suffered no
physical damage and had never been touched with a drop of "sealer".

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

wrote in message
...
On our previous home, everyone in the neighborhood was replacing their
driveways over a period of 5 years -- ours was still in reasonable
condition, because both the previous owner and I sealcoated it.

Interesting when we sold our last house in NJ, it had the same
driveway that had been put in when it was built 17 years earlier,
essentially in the same condition it was in when new (it was not as
dark and black) but after 16 years of snow and ice it suffered no
physical damage and had never been touched with a drop of "sealer".

Well, I can't compare MN vs NJ climates. But I can compare driveway life
between neighbors-- especially when all the driveways were likely original
and done by the developer by the same asphalt crew. So if one lasts longer
than another, there must be a variable. I suggested it was the sealcoating,
but perhaps it's something else.

And FWIW I only had the thing coated once in the 6 years I was there --
seemed to be plenty.

-Tim

Beware of Driveway Sealers Ripoffs
 

wrote in message
...
On our previous home, everyone in the neighborhood was replacing their
driveways over a period of 5 years -- ours was still in reasonable
condition, because both the previous owner and I sealcoated it.

Interesting when we sold our last house in NJ, it had the same
driveway that had been put in when it was built 17 years earlier,
essentially in the same condition it was in when new (it was not as
dark and black) but after 16 years of snow and ice it suffered no
physical damage and had never been touched with a drop of "sealer".

Well, I can't compare MN vs NJ climates. But I can compare driveway life
between neighbors-- especially when all the driveways were likely original
and done by the developer by the same asphalt crew. So if one lasts longer
than another, there must be a variable. I suggested it was the sealcoating,
but perhaps it's something else.

And FWIW I only had the thing coated once in the 6 years I was there --
seemed to be plenty.

-Tim