GFCI Fuese
 

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...se-902203-.htm

GFCI Fuese
 

Helen Keech wrote:
Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace
one in
a junction fuse box.


Just a guess.. If not, there is probably one you could put inline.

GFCI Fuese
 

On 2016-09-03 2:14 PM, Helen Keech wrote:
Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace
one in
a junction fuse box.

I doubt it very much, probably better off replacing your panel for
breakers if that is an issue or requirement.

--
Froz....

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

GFCI Fuese
 

GFCI Fuese
 

On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.

--
Froz....

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only legal
way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with a 5-15.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does not detect ground faults.

--
When Mike got arrested, the police told him, "Anything you say will be held against you."
Mike smiled and simply replied, "Jessica Simpson's boobs."

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:12:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only legal
way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with a 5-15.

It's been a while since I installed any GFCIs and I don't remember the date on my last code book but you mean a newer type GFCI needs no ground wire? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

GFCI Fuese
 

On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers allow for a slight current overage before popping.

--
Froz....

GFCI Fuese
 

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 9:11:31 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.

A GFCI receptacle (outlet) will protect whatever is plugged into it
and whateven is connected to it's load side. As Gfre suggested, that's
an easy way to protect subsequent outlets that are downstream of it.
It's very common, including in new construction. One GFCI receptacle
in a bathroom providing protection for multiple outlets is an example.

To answer your original question, I've never heard of a GFCI fuse
replacement that just goes in place of an existing fuse. One reason
it can't is a GFCI device needs to be in both the hot and neutral
conductors so it can compare the currents, that's how it works. A
fuse is only in the hot side on a 120V circuit.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 8:24:05 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:12:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:07:51 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only legal
way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with a 5-15.

It's been a while since I installed any GFCIs and I don't remember the date on my last code book but you mean a newer type GFCI needs no ground wire? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

AFAIK, no GFCI ever "needed" a ground wire to function as intended.
If it's installed in a location where there is a ground, then the
ground wire from the GFCI gets connected. If it's used to replace
an old two prong, ungrounded receptacle/s, then the ground wire isn't
used, but the GFCI still functions and provides it's intended function
even though no ground is present.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:10:54 -0400, Bill wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.

That is precisely why he said you should call an electrician.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 9:00:21 PM UTC-4, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers allow for a slight current overage before popping.

--
Froz....

While I'm no expert on fuses, physics would seem to suggest that fuses
have that feature too. Does a 20A fuse instantaneously melt at exactly
20A? I suspect if you give it 22A it might work for quite awhile,
until it generates enough heat to melt, while if you give it 40A,
it will blow very quickly. How a fuse curve looks compared to a breaker
curve, IDK, but there must be some kind of curve for both.

The nuisance with fuses is that when one goes, you have to hope
you have the right one and can find it and each time it trips,
it's a new fuse.

GFCI Fuese
 

trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 9:11:31 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.
Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.

Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.
A GFCI receptacle (outlet) will protect whatever is plugged into it
and whateven is connected to it's load side.

In retrospect, that makes sense. Thanks! I had no idea how GFCI
receptacles worked, though I have installed a few.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:12:29 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

You sound like you think you have one already that has failed? Well,
you need to replace one What? Fuse or GFCI protected Fuse?

You're not thinking of Fustats, are you? They screw into the fuse
socket and have different pitch threads for each amperage, so you can
only screw the correct fustat into the socket. Very popular with
landlords who have inadequate wiring and stupid tenants, so the tenant
doesn't burn down the place with fuses that are too big.
http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...e_Adapters.pdf

Or are you thinking of circuit breakers that screw into fuse sockets.
They have one button in the middle. They are not GFCI, and they are
not fuses either. They are circuit breakers shaped like fuses. I
haven't seen any for sale but they wouldn't be for sale in a store
this far from old housing. Maybe in no store these days, but sure
enough, Amazon has them. $9.43 for 20 amps. That's only 47 cents an
amp. It gets 4.6 stars.
https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-BP-M.../dp/B000GAS1GY

They sell Fustats too.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

Well if the house has fuses now, it probably meets code, and a GFCI in
any outlet would be an improvement, right? This is not the kind of
change which requires meeting a later code requirement, is it?

The biggest problem I see is trying to decide which is downstream and
which is upstream. I can see the wiring in my basement laundry room,
but I would still have a very hard time figuring out which receptacle
the power goes to first and then next. One would have to plug in
lights or radios to every outlet, then open up the one one thinks is
closest to the fusebox, disconnect one side, and see what other
receptacles go dead, not just in the same room but other rooms.

Then do the same thing with other receptacles. Unless Helen was only
trying to protect

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:00:20 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers allow for a slight current overage before popping.
Do you have ANY idea of the specs of a fuse??? Compared to a breaker?

Obviously not - just shooting from the lip, as usual.

A standard (Type TC) 20 amp fuse can generally pass 100 amps for 1/10
of a second without blowing.AND 40 AMPS FOR 15 SECONDS.
A 20 amp TL slow blow fuse takes over 15 seconds to blow at 30 amps. A
standard fuse takes over a minute and a half to blow at 10% over it's
rated amperage,

A standard thermal trip breaker is similar - in many cases a bit
faster - and a magnetic trip breaker will "kick" several times faster
thana fuse will blow.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:10:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.
If properly installed, all "downstream" components are protected.
Upstream are not.
Properly installed means connected to the panel with the "line"
screws, and the downstream connected to the "load" screws.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:39:20 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:


While I'm no expert on fuses, physics would seem to suggest that fuses
have that feature too. Does a 20A fuse instantaneously melt at exactly
20A? I suspect if you give it 22A it might work for quite awhile,
until it generates enough heat to melt, while if you give it 40A,
it will blow very quickly. How a fuse curve looks compared to a breaker
curve, IDK, but there must be some kind of curve for both.

They also make slo-blo fuses for home fuseboxes. In fact afaik all
Fustats are slo-blo. But of course they blow instantaneously if the
amps are above a certain point.

In my 6-room, 3-bath apt. in Brooklyn, there was a 20 amp fustat (red
iirc) in the basement and 2 15-amp ones (blue, I think) in my
apartment. Even when I had 3 roommates, we never blew a fuse until I
got an air conditioner. No that's not right. I hot-wired the
elevator after he locked the button to the basement, and one of the
things I liked is that I could replace the fuse without waiting for
the super. I think in 10 years I went through 2, no more than 3
boxes of 4 fuses, but I can't remember what blew them.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:10:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.
If properly installed, all "downstream" components are protected.
Upstream are not.
Properly installed means connected to the panel with the "line"
screws, and the downstream connected to the "load" screws.

Well, we should make sure we are clear in our wording for the non-initiated.

A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired. There
is nothing "mandatory" about using the load side for downstream fixtures.

In addition, it doesn't have to be connected to the *panel*, at least not directly.

*Source wires connected to the line screws" would cover all cases better than
"connected to the panel". That's a bit of a nit, but it covers it all just a little more
clearly.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 17:24:01 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:12:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only legal
way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with a 5-15.

It's been a while since I installed any GFCIs and I don't remember the date on my last code book but you mean a newer type GFCI needs no ground wire? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

GFCIs never needed a ground wire to function.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:18:20 +0100, "James Wilkinson"
wrote:

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

The ironic thing is you could build a brand new house today and use a
fuse panel as long as you had the "type S" rejection devices in the
sockets that prevent putting in the wrong fuse.
The problem becomes the 240v circuits where there is no rejection
device although the 30a class fuse holder will not take a 40 or 50.
The problem would be the range, wired with 8ga and the next size fuse
holder that will take a 60.
Then you get down to the AFCI and GFCI requirements although the code
does allow the "device type".
There is also no money to be saved by doing it. If you could find a
200a fuse panel, it would cost more than a breaker panel by the time
you also bought all the required AFCIs and GFCIs.

My circa 1971 house in Md did have a 200a fuse panel and aluminum
wire. It hasn't burned down yet.

GFCI Fuese
 

DerbyDad03 wrote:
A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired.

Another post suggested that GFCI protection would be given to downstream
receptacles. It's just a matter of curiosity to me. It still is...
Whatever anyone does, use an outlet tester! ; )

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 11:11:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 17:24:01 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:12:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only legal
way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with a 5-15.

It's been a while since I installed any GFCIs and I don't remember the date on my last code book but you mean a newer type GFCI needs no ground wire? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

GFCIs never needed a ground wire to function.

I had forgotten how the damn things worked. It's the current leakage through you to ground that doesn't go to the neutral. So it's basically measuring the imbalance from neutral to ground. My thought that it needed a ground was the label requirement for "ungrounded" GFCI receptacles. I like to have a ground on any receptacle that has a grounding screw. I suppose it's just habit. ^_^

================================================== =============================
Receptacle replacement.

What happens when you're working at a previously unprotected location that now requires GFCI protection? It's no longer acceptable to replace an old, unprotected receptacle with a new, unprotected receptacle. Per 406.3(D)(2), you now must install a GFCI-protected device.

What if you come across a non-grounding type receptacle or an old 2-wire NM cable without a ground? These receptacles can be replaced with one of the following:

Another non-grounding type receptacle.

A GFCI-receptacle, if marked €œNo Equipment Ground.€�

A grounding type receptacle, if GFCI protected and marked €œGFCI Protected€� and €œNo Equipment Ground.€�

The equipment-grounding conductor plays no part in the operation of a GFCI, so it will provide ground-fault protection even on a 2-wire circuit without an equipment-grounding conductor.
================================================== =============================

[8~{} Uncle Forgetful Monster

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 12:55:45 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired.

Another post suggested that GFCI protection would be given to downstream
receptacles. It's just a matter of curiosity to me. It still is...
Whatever anyone does, use an outlet tester! ; )

The downstream receptacles are GFCI protected if the the GFCI is installed
so that they are connected to the load side of the GFCI. The nit that
Derby is pointing out is that Clare said "properly installed". He's right,
you can properly install a GFCI so that only the GFCI receptacle itself
is protected, by wiring the downstream receptacles to the power side of
the wiring, instead of the load side. There is nothing that says you
can't do it that way and you might have a reason for wanting it that way.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 02:00:20 +0100, FrozenNorth wrote:

On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers allow for a slight current overage before popping.

Funny, my mother had a 10A kettle working on a 5A fuse for about 3 months before it blew.

--
Peter is listening to "Ministry of Sound - The Sound of Dubstep 4"

GFCI Fuese
 

FrozenNorth wrote :
On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement, breakers
allow for a slight current overage before popping.

The correct fuse selection should avoid this nuisance.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:00:20 -0400
FrozenNorth wrote:

On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down
stream from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an
electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll.
The OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also
be mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old
homes where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such
primitive wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance
trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse
does not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers allow for a slight current overage before popping.


james is a Brit..do not expect him to know about modern stuff.
The UK is abut 40 years behind the USofA

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 23:01:19 -0400, Micky
wrote:


They also make slo-blo fuses for home fuseboxes. In fact afaik all
Fustats are slo-blo. But of course they blow instantaneously if the
amps are above a certain point.

And ftr, another advantage of Fustats, which I think maybe are also
called type-S, is that one can't put a penny in the fusebox to bypass
a blown fuse. (It takes really a lot of current for a penny to
blow! More than the wires can handle.)

There is a hot button in the bottom of the hole but the cylinder, the
threads, are no longer electically connected. The function the metal
threads usually perform has been moved to the edge next to the top of
the "hole".

The threads of the fustat fuse are not metal either. There's a metal
button at tip and just above the top there are two narrow metal
spring-tangs that contact the top of the Fustat socket insert.

GFCI Fuese
 

On 09/03/2016 11:11 PM, wrote:

[snip]

GFCIs never needed a ground wire to function.


True.

Also, I remember someone thinking that such a GFCI world CREATE a ground
connection. Of course it doesn't.

GFCI Fuese
 

trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 12:55:45 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired.
Another post suggested that GFCI protection would be given to downstream
receptacles. It's just a matter of curiosity to me. It still is...
Whatever anyone does, use an outlet tester! ; )
The downstream receptacles are GFCI protected if the the GFCI is installed
so that they are connected to the load side of the GFCI. The nit that
Derby is pointing out is that Clare said "properly installed". He's right,
you can properly install a GFCI so that only the GFCI receptacle itself
is protected, by wiring the downstream receptacles to the power side of
the wiring, instead of the load side. There is nothing that says you
can't do it that way and you might have a reason for wanting it that way.

I see. I didn't understand the significance of "properly
installed"--but I get it now (the wording is probably related to "proper
subset" in mathematics). Thanks!

Bill

GFCI Fuese
 

After serious thinking James Wilkinson wrote :
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 16:42:29 +0100, FromTheRafters
wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote :
On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers
allow for a slight current overage before popping.

The correct fuse selection should avoid this nuisance.

Only fast blow fuses don't have surge allowances.

The same still applies. The proper fuse should be selected for whatever
application.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 20:52:01 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:10:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.
If properly installed, all "downstream" components are protected.
Upstream are not.
Properly installed means connected to the panel with the "line"
screws, and the downstream connected to the "load" screws.

Well, we should make sure we are clear in our wording for the non-initiated.

A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired. There
is nothing "mandatory" about using the load side for downstream fixtures.


NitPicker. In order to provide downstream protection, they need to be
"properly installed" - which means installed as I described.
In addition, it doesn't have to be connected to the *panel*, at least not directly.

Agaiun, nitpicker. It IS connected to the panel - one way or another.
The "downstream" side is the side NOT connected to the panel in any
way if the GFCI device is removed.

Upstream = panel side = LIVE
Downstrream = load = DEAD
*Source wires connected to the line screws" would cover all cases better than
"connected to the panel". That's a bit of a nit, but it covers it all just a little more
clearly.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 18:55:18 +0100, FromTheRafters wrote:

After serious thinking James Wilkinson wrote :
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 16:42:29 +0100, FromTheRafters
wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote :
On 2016-09-03 7:18 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 00:07:51 +0100, Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 4:55:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.

Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

It could be someone who genuinely ignorant (just means they don't
know) about ground fault devices or it could be a skilled troll. The
OP could have been speaking to someone or seen an article about
electrical safety and really doesn't understand. The OP could also be
mistakenly referring to her breaker panel as a "fuse" box. Your
suggestion is of course the least costly option but if the home is
really old with fuse boxes, there may not be a ground wire in the
receptacle boxes. I remember running service calls to really old homes
where I wondered how no one had been electrocuted by such primitive
wiring. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Fused Monster

My house has fuses and I intend to keep it that way. No nuisance trips.

And WTF are they talking about GFCI fuses? No such thing. A fuse does
not detect ground faults.

You are an idiot, fuses are nuisance trips, and require replacement,
breakers
allow for a slight current overage before popping.

The correct fuse selection should avoid this nuisance.

Only fast blow fuses don't have surge allowances.

The same still applies. The proper fuse should be selected for whatever
application.

Yes, sorry, I was more replying to the previous poster.

--
Said the Duchess of Windsor at tea,
"Young man, do you fart when you pee?"
I replied with some wit
"Do you belch when you ****?"
I think that was one up to me.

GFCI Fuese
 

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 2:07:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 20:52:01 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:10:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-09-03 6:12 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 18:14:01 +0000, Helen Keech
m wrote:

Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to
replace one in
a junction fuse box.
Put a GFCI outlet in the first box on the string, feed the down stream
from the "load" side. If this confuses you, call an electrician.

Are you suggesting he merely "plug-in" that string? Is that likely to
satisfy code requirements?

No he isn't, you should call an electrician.


Then the way I understand it, the "downstream" part won't be GFCI-protected.
If properly installed, all "downstream" components are protected.
Upstream are not.
Properly installed means connected to the panel with the "line"
screws, and the downstream connected to the "load" screws.

Well, we should make sure we are clear in our wording for the non-initiated.

A GFCI with downstream fixtures (receptacles, etc.) connected to line screws would still
be considered "properly installed" as long as downstream protection is not desired. There
is nothing "mandatory" about using the load side for downstream fixtures.


NitPicker. In order to provide downstream protection, they need to be
"properly installed" - which means installed as I described.

So, just to be clear, are you saying that a GFCI with the downstream receptacles
connected to the line side is *not* properly installed?

In addition, it doesn't have to be connected to the *panel*, at least not directly.

Agaiun, nitpicker. It IS connected to the panel - one way or another.

I already said that that was a nit, in fact it's still there at the bottom of this post.

In any case, thank you for affirmation.

The "downstream" side is the side NOT connected to the panel in any
way if the GFCI device is removed.

Unless to downstream receptacles were wired nutted to the source wires and then pigtailed
to the line side of the GFCI. I think that that would be a "proper installation" but I'd not be
upset if I found out that it was not.


Upstream = panel side = LIVE
Downstrream = load = DEAD
*Source wires connected to the line screws" would cover all cases better than
"connected to the panel". That's a bit of a nit, but it covers it all just a little more
clearly.

GFCI Fuese
 

Uncle Monster
Sun, 04
Sep 2016 00:24:01 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

It's been a while since I installed any GFCIs and I don't remember
the date on my last code book but you mean a newer type GFCI needs
no ground wire? o_O

Umm. Unless you know something about GFCI that I don't, it's never
needed a ground wire. From what I understand, the GFCI is watching the
voltage from hot to neutral and if they become imbalanced, it trips.


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

GFCI Fuese
 

Uncle Monster
Sun, 04
Sep 2016 05:28:53 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 11:11:34 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 17:24:01 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:12:14 PM UTC-5,
wrot
e:

GFCIs also mitigate the lack of a ground wire. It is the only
legal way to do a replacement of an ungrounded receptacle with
a 5-15.

It's been a while since I installed any GFCIs and I don't
remember the d
ate on my last code book but you mean a newer type GFCI needs no
ground wire? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

GFCIs never needed a ground wire to function.

I had forgotten how the damn things worked. It's the current
leakage through you to ground that doesn't go to the neutral. So
it's basically measuring the imbalance from neutral to ground. My
thought that it needed a ground was the label requirement for
"ungrounded" GFCI receptacles. I like to have a ground on any
receptacle that has a grounding screw. I suppose it's just habit.
^_^

Sort of. It's measuring hot and neutral (for a leak, basically). When
it sees they aren't in sync (within tolerance), it trips.




--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

GFCI Fuese
 

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-5, Helen Keech wrote:
Are there any 20 amp GFCI protected FUSES available. I need to replace one in
a junction fuse box.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...se-902203-.htm

The GFCI looks for equal currents in the hot and neutral conductors, using a transformer with both windings connected. A third winding will have an output if the (other) two currents are not equal. This is why a GFCI will sometimes trip on "noise", because while equal the two currents are at 60 Hz, there is noise" at some higher frequency that is not equal on both conductors.