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trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a
generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 4:12 AM, pete wrote:
I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Are you sure your TV is only 100W? You're drawing too much current for a car battery to last long. Your extra batteries are shot. Do the math. a 1000 watt inverter will draw 100 amps or so from a car battery. It won't last long. A generator is WAY cheaper than the cost of a set of batteries to do what you want. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/28/2015 07:22 AM, mike wrote:
On 6/28/2015 4:12 AM, pete wrote: I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Are you sure your TV is only 100W? You're drawing too much current for a car battery to last long. Your extra batteries are shot. According to the manual, the TV draws 100 watts. The extra battery was brand new and was rated 525 CCA. Do the math. a 1000 watt inverter will draw 100 amps or so from a car battery. It won't last long. Perhaps not, but the idea was to get the combination working well with the 500 w inverter first which didn't happen. A generator is WAY cheaper than the cost of a set of batteries to do what you want. Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
pete wrote:
On 06/28/2015 07:22 AM, mike wrote: On 6/28/2015 4:12 AM, pete wrote: I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Are you sure your TV is only 100W? You're drawing too much current for a car battery to last long. Your extra batteries are shot. According to the manual, the TV draws 100 watts. The extra battery was brand new and was rated 525 CCA. Do the math. a 1000 watt inverter will draw 100 amps or so from a car battery. It won't last long. Perhaps not, but the idea was to get the combination working well with the 500 w inverter first which didn't happen. A generator is WAY cheaper than the cost of a set of batteries to do what you want. Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. The only maintainance my generator sees is an oil change periodically . I DO make sure I run the carb dry when I'm done with it , and only use non-ethanol gas . But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... -- Snag |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 7:37 AM, pete wrote:
Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. I'd be tempted to put ammeter on the TV and see what the real current draw is. Car starting batteries some times have a "reserve capacity" listed, typically 25 amps for some hours and minutes. This will give you a better idea of capacity, compared to CCA. Car batteries are designed for high current, very short time use. Like car starting. To use them for deep discharge can damage the batteries. In such a setup, I think leaving the car running will give you better performance, and less chance of damaging the battery (s). - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
trouble with generators
On 6/28/2015 7:53 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
The only maintainance my generator sees is an oil change periodically . I DO make sure I run the carb dry when I'm done with it , and only use non-ethanol gas . But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... From my own experience with a ETQ 1200, they should not be run dry, they develop a piston rod knock, and then don't start worth a hoot after that. With your 5500 watt unit, crank case oil. That one can run dry. The gas oil mixers should not be run dry. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 6:12:45 AM UTC-5, pete wrote:
If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete The items you are powering need a stable 60Hz...I think the inverter is below par for this. Sometimes CFL's are the only thing that flickers when you have a minute power fluctuation...and your TV may be CCFL (and not LED). |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/28/2015 06:12 AM, pete wrote:
I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete With your car running, the inverter will be running with full input voltage. With the car off, the battery voltage will eventually drop to the point where the inverter's output is low or unstable. Your car battery is probably in good shape, but your spare battery is either weak or was not fully charged. Also note: A car battery is no designed for deep discharge...basically all it would normally need to do is supply a lot of current for a short period of time. If you discharge a car battery too often it will die prematurely. To run an inverter it's best to use a battery specifically designed for deep discharge...such as a trolling motor battery. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
Op,
Here the answer to your problem. Most inverters have a low voltage cut off that will turn them off When the input voltage gets below something like 10 volts. A good car battery puts out 12 volts which leaves you only 2 volts margin. You MUST use heavy cables and connectors to connect the inverter to the battery. 100 watts at 12 volts is almost 10 amps so it is easy to drop a volt or more in the Cable and connectors. A running car CHARGES the battery which means there is almost 14 volts across the battery. That extra 2 volts makes up for the drop in your cables. Get some HEAVY cables and try it again. Mark |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 7:37:44 AM UTC-4, pete wrote:
On 06/28/2015 07:22 AM, mike wrote: On 6/28/2015 4:12 AM, pete wrote: I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Are you sure your TV is only 100W? You're drawing too much current for a car battery to last long. Your extra batteries are shot. According to the manual, the TV draws 100 watts. The extra battery was brand new and was rated 525 CCA. Do the math. a 1000 watt inverter will draw 100 amps or so from a car battery. It won't last long. Perhaps not, but the idea was to get the combination working well with the 500 w inverter first which didn't happen. I agree it sounds like the inverter didn't run as long as you'd expect. If your load calc is right, you had 120W. Allowing for some losses, let's make it 150W. That's 1.25A on the AC side, 12.5A on the battery side. I would think a typical car battery would be able to deliver 12A for a lot more than an hour. How long were the extension cords linking this together? Was it wired to the battery with cables of sufficient gauge? Another factor would be the age of the batteries used. A new battery and a 5 year old one are going to perform differently. Also possible there is something wrong with the inverter and how well it works may depend on whether it's a quality one or a cheap Chinese one off ebay. Did you take any voltage or current readings while this was happening? That would have provided some relevant data. A generator is WAY cheaper than the cost of a set of batteries to do what you want. Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. OK, so we know that one of the batteries is brand new. Generators seem to generally do OK without maintenance when just sitting, provided you empty the gas, run it dry. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/28/2015 7:37 AM, pete wrote: Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. I'd be tempted to put ammeter on the TV and see what the real current draw is. Car starting batteries some times have a "reserve capacity" listed, typically 25 amps for some hours and minutes. This will give you a better idea of capacity, compared to CCA. Car batteries are designed for high current, very short time use. Like car starting. To use them for deep discharge can damage the batteries. In such a setup, I think leaving the car running will give you better performance, and less chance of damaging the battery (s). All good points. If he bought a new battery for this use, it should be a deep cycle type. Starting type batteries don't last long when you deep discharge them. Each discharge takes more life out of them than it would a deep cycle battery. And letting them sit for any period discharged is very bad too. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
OK, so we know that one of the batteries is brand new. Generators
seem to generally do OK without maintenance when just sitting, provided you empty the gas, run it dry. check date code on new battery, it might have been sitting on a shelf for a year, was the new battery load tested before use and then charged? my GF was thinking of buying and renovating a abandoned home. she wondered about the wiring. i stumbled onto a near giveawy deal on CFs. so i replaced nearly all lightbulbs thru the entire home, and feed a extension cord from the inverter to the homesmain braker panel. i managed to power up the entire home. i did this during the day and returned with her about dusk that evening. plugged in the home it lit up nicely. some neighbor must of noticed and called the police. lots of questions like how did you get the power on? about this time the diming began the OP reported. kinda unreal standing in the living room of a abandoned home talking to police with the lights dim and brite. the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, and the short 12 volt cables had the inverter really close to the raditor fans exhaust, it was unreal hot when i pulled the system down....... interestingl we were at that home yesterday, the community is sending my GF a letter aboutpurchase price.. we orignally stumbled onto it years ago. of course it needs a lot of work, all copper gone, and some CPVC all frozen and broke. who cares thats what PEX is for:) will need a new roof soon, new furnace and air, some wiring upgrades. it has romexall with ground wires but 2 prong outlets, no biggie replace all outlets and switches i have done lots of wiring, needs windows, the old steel casements werent a big loss neighbor hood kids used a neighbors river rock garden a a ammo dump. someoe tore down the kitche cieling to steal the copper. i enjoy fixing up homes, just wish my knee didnt hurt. when we were there yesterday I discovered the ceramic tile kitchen was really glued on plastic tile. home will need a new kitchen and the old tile was ugly. GF thought it was ceramic. i am stuned the home wasnt really vandalized. we found a letter from someone pushed thru a window wanting to rent it.. neighbors are nice and must be keeping a eye on things. hopefully purchase price is very low. i would enjoy the project. years ago we removed all the trash from the place...... its aquired a name the ivy house. since ivy grew up the outside wall entered into the master bedroom and over time grew across the rooms and out another window on the other side |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 10:04 AM, bob haller wrote:
my GF was thinking of buying and renovating a abandoned home. she wondered about the wiring. i stumbled onto a near giveawy deal on CFs. so i replaced nearly all lightbulbs thru the entire home, and feed a extension cord from the inverter to the homesmain braker panel. i managed to power up the entire home. i did this during the day and returned with her about dusk that evening. plugged in the home it lit up nicely. some neighbor must of noticed and called the police. lots of questions like how did you get the power on? about this time the diming began the OP reported. kinda unreal standing in the living room of a abandoned home talking to police with the lights dim and brite. the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, and the short 12 volt cables had the inverter really close to the raditor fans exhaust, it was unreal hot when i pulled the system down....... interestingl we were at that home yesterday, the community is sending my GF a letter aboutpurchase price.. we orignally stumbled onto it years ago. So, you considering moving into a place where the neighbors call the cops on you? - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 10:04 AM, bob haller wrote:
kinda unreal standing in the living room of a abandoned home talking to police with the lights dim and brite. the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, and the short 12 volt cables had the inverter really close to the raditor fans exhaust, it was unreal hot when i pulled the system down....... interestingl we were at that home yesterday, the community is sending my GF a letter aboutpurchase price.. we orignally stumbled onto it years ago. of course it needs a lot of work, all copper gone, and some CPVC all frozen and broke. who cares thats what PEX is for:) will need a new roof soon, new furnace and air, some wiring upgrades. it has romexall with ground wires but 2 prong outlets, no biggie replace all outlets and switches i have done lots of wiring, needs windows, the old steel casements werent a big loss neighbor hood kids used a neighbors river rock garden a a ammo dump. someoe tore down the kitche cieling to steal the copper. i enjoy fixing up homes, just wish my knee didnt hurt. when we were there yesterday I discovered the ceramic tile kitchen was really glued on plastic tile. home will need a new kitchen and the old tile was ugly. GF thought it was ceramic. i am stuned the home wasnt really vandalized. we found a letter from someone pushed thru a window wanting to rent it.. neighbors are nice and must be keeping a eye on things. hopefully purchase price is very low. i would enjoy the project. years ago we removed all the trash from the place...... its aquired a name the ivy house. since ivy grew up the outside wall entered into the master bedroom and over time grew across the rooms and out another window on the other side Sounds like you are buying 4 walls and an umbrella. Would be nice to have it salvaged rather than left to fall down in time. Take lots of before and after photos. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/28/2015 10:04 AM, bob haller wrote: my GF was thinking of buying and renovating a abandoned home. she wondered about the wiring. i stumbled onto a near giveawy deal on CFs. so i replaced nearly all lightbulbs thru the entire home, and feed a extension cord from the inverter to the homesmain braker panel. i managed to power up the entire home. i did this during the day and returned with her about dusk that evening. plugged in the home it lit up nicely. some neighbor must of noticed and called the police. lots of questions like how did you get the power on? about this time the diming began the OP reported. kinda unreal standing in the living room of a abandoned home talking to police with the lights dim and brite. the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, and the short 12 volt cables had the inverter really close to the raditor fans exhaust, it was unreal hot when i pulled the system down....... interestingl we were at that home yesterday, the community is sending my GF a letter aboutpurchase price.. we orignally stumbled onto it years ago. So, you considering moving into a place where the neighbors call the cops on you? Neighbors that actually care? That would be yes! |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
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trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 10:26 AM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote: kinda unreal standing in the living room of a abandoned home talking to police with the lights dim and brite. the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, So, you considering moving into a place where the neighbors call the cops on you? Neighbors that actually care? That would be yes! There is some advantage to caring neighbors. Since you word it that way, I can see the other side of the coin. Thank you. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 6:12 AM, pete wrote:
I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Take care of it and this will virtually last forever: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....tor/p8519.html |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 07:37:39 -0400, pete wrote:
On 06/28/2015 07:22 AM, mike wrote: On 6/28/2015 4:12 AM, pete wrote: I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Are you sure your TV is only 100W? You're drawing too much current for a car battery to last long. Your extra batteries are shot. According to the manual, the TV draws 100 watts. The extra battery was brand new and was rated 525 CCA. Do the math. a 1000 watt inverter will draw 100 amps or so from a car battery. It won't last long. Perhaps not, but the idea was to get the combination working well with the 500 w inverter first which didn't happen. A generator is WAY cheaper than the cost of a set of batteries to do what you want. Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. Running a car to operate a 500, or even a 1000 watt inverter, is an awfull inefficient and expensive way to provide emergency power. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:53:54 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: pete wrote: On 06/28/2015 07:22 AM, mike wrote: On 6/28/2015 4:12 AM, pete wrote: I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available. I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running. All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off. I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time. Thanks for your help. Pete Are you sure your TV is only 100W? You're drawing too much current for a car battery to last long. Your extra batteries are shot. According to the manual, the TV draws 100 watts. The extra battery was brand new and was rated 525 CCA. Do the math. a 1000 watt inverter will draw 100 amps or so from a car battery. It won't last long. Perhaps not, but the idea was to get the combination working well with the 500 w inverter first which didn't happen. A generator is WAY cheaper than the cost of a set of batteries to do what you want. Well, the brand new battery was $65 and I already had the 500 w inverter. Since generators were all sold out locally at the time, I had to do my best to make the combination work which really didn't happen. Besides, generators have to be maintained periodically as they'll sit for long periods without use, something not done for inverters and we already have regular maintenance on the car. The only maintainance my generator sees is an oil change periodically . I DO make sure I run the carb dry when I'm done with it , and only use non-ethanol gas . But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... I don't even have to drain the carb. I just plug it into the natural gas line. I also have the option of running it on 2 propane BarBQ tanks. Synthetic oil change every 50 hours of intermittent use, a few hundred hours of consistent running. (Full pressure filtered lub system) |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/28/2015 08:04 AM, philo wrote:
[snip] To run an inverter it's best to use a battery specifically designed for deep discharge...such as a trolling motor battery. During one power outage, I ran a TV (372W LCD with fluorescent backlight) with an inverter on a deep-cycle battery. It lasted over 4 hours without any flickering. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries." -- JAMES MADISON |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:53:54 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote in But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... Mind if I ask what brand gen you have? -- Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one. Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those newspapers delivered to your door every morning. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/28/2015 08:15 AM, trader_4 wrote:
[snip] Generators seem to generally do OK without maintenance when just sitting, provided you empty the gas, run it dry. Running it dry will help. It's something I do regularly now. Having a gasoline shutoff helps. I seem to have heard of another problem with generators. That they depend on some residual magnetic field that has to be refreshed occasionally. I'm not sure how true this is, or if it applies to mine (Honda EB3000c, which, according to the manual, generates 3-phase which is electronically converted to 1-phase). -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries." -- JAMES MADISON |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/28/2015 01:59 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 06/28/2015 08:04 AM, philo wrote: [snip] To run an inverter it's best to use a battery specifically designed for deep discharge...such as a trolling motor battery. During one power outage, I ran a TV (372W LCD with fluorescent backlight) with an inverter on a deep-cycle battery. It lasted over 4 hours without any flickering. I've got a few industrial-grade UPS's here and we once had a power outage go 24 hours. Since the weather was hot, all I cared about was the fan I keep next to the bed and UPS held up the entire time. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
You need a deep cycle battery not a car battery. You were ruining your car battery by running it the way you were.
For emergency power needs, the best bang for your buck still can't beat out a gasoline powered generator. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/28/2015 1:25 PM, wrote:
Running a car to operate a 500, or even a 1000 watt inverter, is an awfull inefficient and expensive way to provide emergency power. Agree. It also helps light up the house, and get the neighbors to call the cops. Nothing like revolving red light bars to help you see to get ready to go to bed. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:53:54 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote in But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... Mind if I ask what brand gen you have? It's a B&S model 030430 , 5500 watts / 8500 surge . Retail was around a thousand , I got this one for less than half that from a remorseful buyer . It had never even been started ... this is the second one , the first was stolen out of my shed (down in Memphis) on a dark and stormy night . -- Snag |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:06:32 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote in CRNG wrote: On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:53:54 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote in But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... Mind if I ask what brand gen you have? It's a B&S model 030430 , 5500 watts / 8500 surge . Retail was around a thousand , I got this one for less than half that from a remorseful buyer . It had never even been started ... this is the second one , the first was stolen out of my shed (down in Memphis) on a dark and stormy night . Thanks. It looks like a nice genny for emergency use. -- Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one. Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those newspapers delivered to your door every morning. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:06:32 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote in CRNG wrote: On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:53:54 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote in But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... Mind if I ask what brand gen you have? It's a B&S model 030430 , 5500 watts / 8500 surge . Retail was around a thousand , I got this one for less than half that from a remorseful buyer . It had never even been started ... this is the second one , the first was stolen out of my shed (down in Memphis) on a dark and stormy night . Thanks. It looks like a nice genny for emergency use. It is , it will run my whole house in Memphis except for central air . Up here , we turn the water heater off , but can leave it on if I want long enough to get a hot shower . I can also run all the shop equipment but the TIG machine if needed . (not all at the same time of course) -- Snag |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 7:22:29 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
CRNG wrote: On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:06:32 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote in CRNG wrote: On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 06:53:54 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote in But then mine is a fairly expensive 5500 watt unit , not a HF $129 2-stroke POS . YMMV ... Mind if I ask what brand gen you have? It's a B&S model 030430 , 5500 watts / 8500 surge . Retail was around a thousand , I got this one for less than half that from a remorseful buyer . It had never even been started ... this is the second one , the first was stolen out of my shed (down in Memphis) on a dark and stormy night . Thanks. It looks like a nice genny for emergency use. It is , it will run my whole house in Memphis except for central air . Up here , we turn the water heater off , but can leave it on if I want long enough to get a hot shower . I can also run all the shop equipment but the TIG machine if needed . (not all at the same time of course) -- Snag During Sandy I was surprised at how much you can run off a generator that size. Neighbor had one that was ~5000W and we ran two houses off of it. That included at least 3 refrigerator/freezers, two furnaces, two gas fired water heaters with blowers, plus lights, radios. Even more amazing, the second house was on at least 100ft of extension cord. The neighbor was even hooking up a resistance heater first day, until I got his furnace going for him. Only thing it wouldn't run was his washing machine.... Why he would even try that, IDK. Could have killed the golden goose. Might run OK without the other loads, but even then hard to imagine you can't go a week without doing laundry. On my side I did do some load management, eg disconnecting the freezer while the furnace was on. But not sure I even needed to do that. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 6/30/2015 9:48 AM, trader_4 wrote:
During Sandy I was surprised at how much you can run off a generator that size. Neighbor had one that was ~5000W and we ran two houses off of it. That included at least 3 refrigerator/freezers, two furnaces, two gas fired water heaters with blowers, plus lights, radios. Even more amazing, the second house was on at least 100ft of extension cord. The neighbor was even hooking up a resistance heater first day, until I got his furnace going for him. Only thing it wouldn't run was his washing machine.... Why he would even try that, IDK. Could have killed the golden goose. Might run OK without the other loads, but even then hard to imagine you can't go a week without doing laundry. On my side I did do some load management, eg disconnecting the freezer while the furnace was on. But not sure I even needed to do that. Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. You can siphon gas from your car in an emergency. Good thought though... |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:52:26 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote: On 6/30/2015 9:48 AM, trader_4 wrote: During Sandy I was surprised at how much you can run off a generator that size. Neighbor had one that was ~5000W and we ran two houses off of it. That included at least 3 refrigerator/freezers, two furnaces, two gas fired water heaters with blowers, plus lights, radios. Even more amazing, the second house was on at least 100ft of extension cord. The neighbor was even hooking up a resistance heater first day, until I got his furnace going for him. Only thing it wouldn't run was his washing machine.... Why he would even try that, IDK. Could have killed the golden goose. Might run OK without the other loads, but even then hard to imagine you can't go a week without doing laundry. On my side I did do some load management, eg disconnecting the freezer while the furnace was on. But not sure I even needed to do that. Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. - . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . . That's why I spent about $300 extra to make mine run on natural gas - and another almost $100 to handle propane as well. |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/30/2015 08:48 AM, trader_4 wrote:
[snip] During Sandy I was surprised at how much you can run off a generator that size. Neighbor had one that was ~5000W and we ran two houses off of it. That included at least 3 refrigerator/freezers, two furnaces, two gas fired water heaters with blowers, plus lights, radios. Even more amazing, the second house was on at least 100ft of extension cord. The neighbor was even hooking up a resistance heater first day, until I got his furnace going for him. Only thing it wouldn't run was his washing machine.... Why he would even try that, IDK. I considered running my washer on a generator during the power outage a month ago, but knew there was no way to run the electric dryer. Could have killed the golden goose. Might run OK without the other loads, but even then hard to imagine you can't go a week without doing laundry. On my side I did do some load management, eg disconnecting the freezer while the furnace was on. But not sure I even needed to do that. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system." -- Thomas Paine (1737-1809) |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/30/2015 09:52 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
[snip] Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. Maybe you could convert the genny to run on propane. There are some conversions that let you use either fuel. You can keep propane longer. - . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . . -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system." -- Thomas Paine (1737-1809) |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/30/2015 10:49 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. You can siphon gas from your car in an emergency. Good thought though... I thought most car tanks were designed to prevent that. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system." -- Thomas Paine (1737-1809) |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On 06/30/2015 11:30 AM, wrote:
[snip] That's why I spent about $300 extra to make mine run on natural gas - and another almost $100 to handle propane as well. The conversion I installed is supposed to work on either propane or NG. I had some extra expense for propane (hose and regulator). NG would require the installation of an NG connection. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system." -- Thomas Paine (1737-1809) |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 10:24:39 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 06/30/2015 10:49 AM, bob_villa wrote: On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. You can siphon gas from your car in an emergency. Good thought though... I thought most car tanks were designed to prevent that. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system." -- Thomas Paine (1737-1809) you can put a shrader connector on the fuel line under the hood. normally the fitting is used for pressure testing the fuel system |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 21:29:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote: On 06/30/2015 11:30 AM, wrote: [snip] That's why I spent about $300 extra to make mine run on natural gas - and another almost $100 to handle propane as well. The conversion I installed is supposed to work on either propane or NG. I had some extra expense for propane (hose and regulator). NG would require the installation of an NG connection. I already had the NG line for the Bar B Q - just added the 1/2" quick connect to the line - and I also had to buy the natural gas hose. That (along with the motor snorkel kit from US Carburetion) looked after the NG conversion. To run off of Propane I needed the propane regulator and the anti-backflow "T" to connect 2 tanks because one 20 or 30 lb tank cannot supply the 440cc engine for more than a few minutes in cold weather without freezing up., as well as the female quick-connect to connect the propane regulator to the natural gas hose. as well as a pair of whip hoses to connect the tanks. All prices in Canadian Dollars - and include shipping and brokerage getting parts to Canada from USA |
trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up
On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:24:39 PM UTC-5, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 06/30/2015 10:49 AM, bob_villa wrote: On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: Years ago, I did some calculations. A galon of gas provides about 4,000 watts for one hour. With a 5k genny, best to have a LOT of gasoline on hand. Cause the gas stations don't have power. You can siphon gas from your car in an emergency. Good thought though.... I thought most car tanks were designed to prevent that. -- Mark Lloyd Back in the 1970's during The Arab Oil Embargo, a lot of motorists were running out of gas on the interstate highways here in Alabamastan so the Department of Public Safety equipped State Trouper patrol cars with some sort of tap into the car's fuel line which allowed a trouper to dispense a small amount of fuel to a stranded motorist so they could get off the interstate. I imagine it was some sort of tap in the fuel line at the fuel pump. The patrol cars back then didn't electric fuel pumps so I don't know if an auxiliary electric pump was added or a tap was made on the line at the pressure side of the mechanical fuel pump. If you wanted to have a convenient way to get fuel for your portable equipment you could make a tap into your vehicle's fuel system. If you have the mechanical skills needed and an understanding of how your vehicle's fuel system worked, it would be a project you might consider. For many people it's a "Don't try this at home" project. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster |
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