About 30 years ago, I planted a Japanese pine tree and and several Texas
privets next to my concrete patio.

The Patio is about 50' by 15' in size. The concrete slab for the patio is 4"
thick but does not appear to be reinforced. The builder merely cut grooves
at 10 foot intervals.

I recently noticed that some concrete scallop borders near the patio had
been uplifted.

When I tried to straighten out the concrete scallops, I found that roots
from the pine had pushed them up about 4 inches. When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

What is the danger of these roots uplifting and breaking my patio slab?
Should I cut down the pine tree and the privets?

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On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 11:03:18 PM UTC-4, Walter E. wrote:
About 30 years ago, I planted a Japanese pine tree and and several Texas
privets next to my concrete patio.

The Patio is about 50' by 15' in size. The concrete slab for the patio is 4"
thick but does not appear to be reinforced. The builder merely cut grooves
at 10 foot intervals.

I recently noticed that some concrete scallop borders near the patio had
been uplifted.

When I tried to straighten out the concrete scallops, I found that roots
from the pine had pushed them up about 4 inches. When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

What is the danger of these roots uplifting and breaking my patio slab?
Should I cut down the pine tree and the privets?

--

One big unknown factor is at 30 years how close to mature size are
these things? And are you happy with them, really want to keep them?
If they have a long way to go to mature size, then the risk is greater.
If you like the tree/bushes, then one strategy would be to closely
monitor it. At the first sign of cracking, then you have to deal with
it. Almost all concrete has some cracks, so if you monitor it, catch
it early, stop it, I would think the damage would be minimal. The real
disasters where the concrete is totally broken up, pushed up, I think
takes a long time with nothing done.

plus mature trees have $$$$ value at home resale time. a older neighbor had a beautiful home with lots of trees. over a couple years he had every single tree cut down,

when he decided to sell the realtor who lives nearby remarked too bad john cut down all his trees, it probably cost him 20 grand.....

john claimed that during a storm a tree could hit his home. but most of what he cut down were far away from his home.......

my theory he wanted to end leaf clean up in fall, the trouble was all his neighbors tree leaves blew into his yard

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 8:43:54 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
plus mature trees have $$$$ value at home resale time. a older neighbor had a beautiful home with lots of trees. over a couple years he had every single tree cut down,

when he decided to sell the realtor who lives nearby remarked too bad john cut down all his trees, it probably cost him 20 grand.....

john claimed that during a storm a tree could hit his home. but most of what he cut down were far away from his home.......

my theory he wanted to end leaf clean up in fall, the trouble was all his neighbors tree leaves blew into his yard

I have shade from large trees near my house. They were more even closer
before I bought the place 20 years ago. I took those out to make the
backyard a bit larger, but it's still nicely shaded. In summer with
no AC on, my house will be 74, a friend with a new construction house,
no trees, is 80+. It likely helps in winter to, by cutting down the
wind. The downside is with more leaves, it's a pain.

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:03:16 -0700, "Walter E."
wrote:

When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

I'd root prune the trees back closer to the trees. Not just at the
patio. Pruning one side - not all the way around them

More information here.

http://hort.ufl.edu/woody/root-prune-guidelines.shtml

On 06/21/2015 09:43 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:03:16 -0700, "Walter E."
wrote:

When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

I'd root prune the trees back closer to the trees. Not just at the
patio. Pruning one side - not all the way around them

More information here.

http://hort.ufl.edu/woody/root-prune-guidelines.shtml




Problem is, if the roots are pruned too much, the entire tree could come
down in a wind storm.


Happened near here and the tree crushed a car...good thing no one was in it.

On 6/21/2015 10:43 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:03:16 -0700, "Walter E."
wrote:

When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

I'd root prune the trees back closer to the trees. Not just at the
patio. Pruning one side - not all the way around them

More information here.

http://hort.ufl.edu/woody/root-prune-guidelines.shtml


That could cause death of part of the tree in some species. If it is a
desireable tree, I'd have an arborist check it out. Some pines, at
least, have a lot of surface roots, and pruning or injuring roots might
cause sprouting.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 11:44:42 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 10:43 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:03:16 -0700, "Walter E."
wrote:

When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

I'd root prune the trees back closer to the trees. Not just at the
patio. Pruning one side - not all the way around them

More information here.

http://hort.ufl.edu/woody/root-prune-guidelines.shtml


That could cause death of part of the tree in some species. If it is a
desireable tree, I'd have an arborist check it out. Some pines, at
least, have a lot of surface roots, and pruning or injuring roots might
cause sprouting.

I don't disagree. Some pines have tap roots for the main root. so
cutting a surface root is likely to do little harm.

Don't butcher the tree roots - think moderation.

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 11:03:18 PM UTC-4, Walter E. wrote:
About 30 years ago, I planted a Japanese pine tree and and several Texas
privets next to my concrete patio.

The Patio is about 50' by 15' in size. The concrete slab for the patio is 4"
thick but does not appear to be reinforced. The builder merely cut grooves
at 10 foot intervals.

I recently noticed that some concrete scallop borders near the patio had
been uplifted.

When I tried to straighten out the concrete scallops, I found that roots
from the pine had pushed them up about 4 inches. When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

What is the danger of these roots uplifting and breaking my patio slab?
Should I cut down the pine tree and the privets?

--

concete does not last forever, just a very long time

"Walter E." writes:

About 30 years ago, I planted a Japanese pine tree and and several
Texas privets next to my concrete patio.

The Patio is about 50' by 15' in size. The concrete slab for the patio
is 4" thick but does not appear to be reinforced. The builder merely
cut grooves at 10 foot intervals.

I recently noticed that some concrete scallop borders near the patio
had been uplifted.

When I tried to straighten out the concrete scallops, I found that
roots from the pine had pushed them up about 4 inches. When I dug up
the roots I found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in
diameter and the roots from the privets were about 2 inches in
diameter. I cut some of the roots where they disappeared under the
patio concrete slab but I could not dig them all out.

What is the danger of these roots uplifting and breaking my patio
slab? Should I cut down the pine tree and the privets?

Without seeing, hard to tell.
Which do you like more, the tree or the patio?
Eventually you will have to decide.

You might be able to remove part of the patio.

Trimming away the roots won't work long term,
The tree will die or fall over (and die).

--
Dan Espen

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:03:16 -0700, "Walter E."
wrote:

About 30 years ago, I planted a Japanese pine tree and and several Texas
privets next to my concrete patio.

The Patio is about 50' by 15' in size. The concrete slab for the patio is 4"
thick but does not appear to be reinforced. The builder merely cut grooves
at 10 foot intervals.

I recently noticed that some concrete scallop borders near the patio had
been uplifted.

When I tried to straighten out the concrete scallops, I found that roots
from the pine had pushed them up about 4 inches. When I dug up the roots I
found that the roots from the pine tree were about 3" in diameter and the
roots from the privets were about 2 inches in diameter. I cut some of the
roots where they disappeared under the patio concrete slab but I could not
dig them all out.

What is the danger of these roots uplifting and breaking my patio slab?
Should I cut down the pine tree and the privets?
Eventually they WILL lift the patio. Might not be in your lifetime -
might be next year. People don't think when they plant trees too close
to buildings or other manmade structures - like sidewalks etc - about
how big those little twigs will get and what kind of root system it
takes to support them.

When we bought our house there were 3 apple trees, a flowering
quince,a cherry tree,a cedar hedge (about 18 or 20 cedars),3 maple
trees, a spruce and a brace of cedars in one corner, and a huge pssy
willow in the other, as well as a large lilac at the corner of the
house. The Pussy willow was righnt next to what is now a large black
spruce in the corner of the neigbours lot, which shares the small
front yard with a large crimson king Maple.. Then there are 3 large
maples on the boulevard beside the house and a large black locust on
the boulevard in front. If I had not removed the cedar hedge, lilac
and pussy willow long ago, the one maple on the back of the lot about
the same time (after it froze and split several times), 2 of the apple
trees, and last year the large cherry, I'd be living in a forest!!!!
The cherry was only about 6 feet from the house and the trunk was a
good 2 feet in diameter - and after chopping the top out 4 or 5 times
it was higher than the top of our two story house again. There was no
open sopace between the house and the boulevard maples - and even now
the maple behind the deck in my back yard interwines with the
boulevard maples,creating a pretty dense canopy.

So far no root problems (touch that whole pile of mixed firewood out
back!!!)

replying to Walter E. , Sid in Sacramento wrote:
wer wrote:

About 30 years ago, I planted a Japanese pine tree and and several Texas
privets next to my concrete patio.
The Patio is about 50' by 15' in size. The concrete slab for the patio is
4"
thick but does not appear to be reinforced. The builder merely cut grooves

at 10 foot intervals.
I recently noticed that some concrete scallop borders near the patio had
been uplifted.


you might try using small stump grinder and grind the roots along the
outline of your patio, the fill the area with concrete to keep further
penetration ( the trench has to be deep enought so that the roots would
have to travel downwards, then up, to attack you patio JMHO

--