Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath? Probably not - just wondering....

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:55:58 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath?

A cutting torch should work.

Why are you wanting to remove body parts?

Fred,

Your local library will have various auto repair manuals that may help
you. I'm sure there is a Hayne's manual for sale at the auto parts store. I
doubt that removing the engine will be necessary. Have you looked under the
front carpet at the engine access port?

Dave M.

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be
replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath? Probably not -
just wondering....


After several replies, you could remove the grille and stuff in front of
the
engine, then take out through the front. One seldom drops the engine out
the
bottom, although it could happen.

3 choices from the mechanic....

Complete used engine with 125K miles, 6 mo parts warranty - $2500
Complete used engine with 125K miles, 1 yr parts & labor warranty - $2650
Heads only $2400
Could not find a rebuilt engine

Talked with another mechanic known for many years.... I wanted him to check
it and be sure it was a head gasket. Right away when he was milky coolant,
he said it was a head gasket recommended getting rid of it. He knew there
were other problems - PS, heater, control arm bushings for starters. Plus
possibly trans down the road.

I'll look around and see what's out there. But with the choice of spending
$3500 fixing this one or $10K+ on a newer van, I'll stay with the old one.

Cost after 5 years SWAG:

Fix old one -- $3500 repairs + $3K future repairs + $350 registration =
$6850.

Cost for trading to later mode -- $10K - $1K old sold + $1500 future repairs
+ $810 sales tax + $1K registration. $14,310.



Rough estimate of the cost of $10K one..... $10K less $1000 sell to state or
junk yard = $9K cost. Plus $810 sales tax, plus $200/year registration.\

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm confused. You asked if the head gaskets can be replaced by removing body
panels to gain access instead of by taking the engine out.through the
bottom. My reply was that you remove the grille and take the engine out
through the front. To that, you list up options that all are replacing the
engine in one way or another, and this brings us back to taking it out
through the front. My answer is the same, even if your options are
different.

Quite frankly, you should scrap this car. Here's why, the California Air
Resources Board (CARB) has no aftermarket CATs that it certifies for this
car. This means that when you need a new CAT, you must get them from Ford
for a cost that is probably greater than the value of the car.

I do not know where you are, nor do I care. The point is that there are no
replacement CATs that are good enough to make CARB happy, and (like a
woman), if CARB aint happy, aint nobody happy. If you are outside of Calif.,
and you buy an aftermarket CAT, it will not last and it will not work -- two
issues that CARB insists upon to certify for use.

Good luck.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 16:22:53 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Fred James" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be
replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath? Probably not -
just wondering....


After several replies, you could remove the grille and stuff in front of
the
engine, then take out through the front. One seldom drops the engine out
the
bottom, although it could happen.

3 choices from the mechanic....

Complete used engine with 125K miles, 6 mo parts warranty - $2500
Complete used engine with 125K miles, 1 yr parts & labor warranty - $2650
Heads only $2400
Could not find a rebuilt engine

Talked with another mechanic known for many years.... I wanted him to check
it and be sure it was a head gasket. Right away when he was milky coolant,
he said it was a head gasket recommended getting rid of it. He knew there
were other problems - PS, heater, control arm bushings for starters. Plus
possibly trans down the road.

I'll look around and see what's out there. But with the choice of spending
$3500 fixing this one or $10K+ on a newer van, I'll stay with the old one.

Cost after 5 years SWAG:

Fix old one -- $3500 repairs + $3K future repairs + $350 registration =
$6850.

Cost for trading to later mode -- $10K - $1K old sold + $1500 future repairs
+ $810 sales tax + $1K registration. $14,310.



Rough estimate of the cost of $10K one..... $10K less $1000 sell to state or
junk yard = $9K cost. Plus $810 sales tax, plus $200/year registration.\

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm confused. You asked if the head gaskets can be replaced by removing body
panels to gain access instead of by taking the engine out.through the
bottom. My reply was that you remove the grille and take the engine out
through the front. To that, you list up options that all are replacing the
engine in one way or another, and this brings us back to taking it out
through the front. My answer is the same, even if your options are
different.

Quite frankly, you should scrap this car. Here's why, the California Air
Resources Board (CARB) has no aftermarket CATs that it certifies for this
car. This means that when you need a new CAT, you must get them from Ford
for a cost that is probably greater than the value of the car.

I do not know where you are, nor do I care. The point is that there are no
replacement CATs that are good enough to make CARB happy, and (like a
woman), if CARB aint happy, aint nobody happy. If you are outside of Calif.,
and you buy an aftermarket CAT, it will not last and it will not work -- two
issues that CARB insists upon to certify for use.

Good luck.



Why would you pull the engine out the front? Only if you have no
hoist!! The engine comes out the bottom so much more easily - and so
much faster. Goes in a lot easier too. But for heads alone, no need
to pull it out.

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:24:09 -0400, wrote:



Why would you pull the engine out the front? Only if you have no
hoist!! The engine comes out the bottom so much more easily - and so
much faster. Goes in a lot easier too. But for heads alone, no need
to pull it out.
In fact, I don't believe it is even possible to get a 4.0 liter out
the front. A 3.0 is bad enough to wrangle out. Getting the pulley out
over the front frame without putting the block through the dash/cowl
is more than one trick.

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message ...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be
replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath? Probably not -
just wondering....


After several replies, you could remove the grille and stuff in front of
the
engine, then take out through the front. One seldom drops the engine out
the
bottom, although it could happen.

3 choices from the mechanic....

Complete used engine with 125K miles, 6 mo parts warranty - $2500
Complete used engine with 125K miles, 1 yr parts & labor warranty - $2650
Heads only $2400
Could not find a rebuilt engine

Talked with another mechanic known for many years.... I wanted him to check
it and be sure it was a head gasket. Right away when he was milky coolant,
he said it was a head gasket recommended getting rid of it. He knew there
were other problems - PS, heater, control arm bushings for starters. Plus
possibly trans down the road.

I'll look around and see what's out there. But with the choice of spending
$3500 fixing this one or $10K+ on a newer van, I'll stay with the old one.

Cost after 5 years SWAG:

Fix old one -- $3500 repairs + $3K future repairs + $350 registration =
$6850.

Cost for trading to later mode -- $10K - $1K old sold + $1500 future repairs
+ $810 sales tax + $1K registration. $14,310.



Rough estimate of the cost of $10K one..... $10K less $1000 sell to state or
junk yard = $9K cost. Plus $810 sales tax, plus $200/year registration.\

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm confused. You asked if the head gaskets can be replaced by removing body
panels to gain access instead of by taking the engine out.through the
bottom. My reply was that you remove the grille and take the engine out
through the front. To that, you list up options that all are replacing the
engine in one way or another, and this brings us back to taking it out
through the front. My answer is the same, even if your options are
different.

Quite frankly, you should scrap this car. Here's why, the California Air
Resources Board (CARB) has no aftermarket CATs that it certifies for this
car. This means that when you need a new CAT, you must get them from Ford
for a cost that is probably greater than the value of the car.

I do not know where you are, nor do I care. The point is that there are no
replacement CATs that are good enough to make CARB happy, and (like a
woman), if CARB aint happy, aint nobody happy. If you are outside of Calif.,
and you buy an aftermarket CAT, it will not last and it will not work -- two
issues that CARB insists upon to certify for use.

Good luck.

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carc...Converter.html

EASTERN CATALYTIC Part # 830856 More Info Direct Fit. Center; Series 830800; E.O # D-665-16; Legal Note In Compliance with the state of CA & NY (vehicles with CA Emissions); Engine Family: TFM3.028G1GK; CARB FTB STD: TIER1. $292.79

"Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney" wrote in
message news "Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be
replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath? Probably not -
just wondering....


After several replies, you could remove the grille and stuff in front of
the
engine, then take out through the front. One seldom drops the engine out
the
bottom, although it could happen.

3 choices from the mechanic....

Complete used engine with 125K miles, 6 mo parts warranty - $2500
Complete used engine with 125K miles, 1 yr parts & labor warranty - $2650
Heads only $2400
Could not find a rebuilt engine

Talked with another mechanic known for many years.... I wanted him to
check
it and be sure it was a head gasket. Right away when he was milky
coolant,
he said it was a head gasket recommended getting rid of it. He knew there
were other problems - PS, heater, control arm bushings for starters. Plus
possibly trans down the road.

I'll look around and see what's out there. But with the choice of
spending
$3500 fixing this one or $10K+ on a newer van, I'll stay with the old one.

Cost after 5 years SWAG:

Fix old one -- $3500 repairs + $3K future repairs + $350 registration =
$6850.

Cost for trading to later mode -- $10K - $1K old sold + $1500 future
repairs
+ $810 sales tax + $1K registration. $14,310.



Rough estimate of the cost of $10K one..... $10K less $1000 sell to state
or
junk yard = $9K cost. Plus $810 sales tax, plus $200/year registration.\

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm confused. You asked if the head gaskets can be replaced by removing
body
panels to gain access instead of by taking the engine out.through the
bottom. My reply was that you remove the grille and take the engine out
through the front. To that, you list up options that all are replacing the
engine in one way or another, and this brings us back to taking it out
through the front. My answer is the same, even if your options are
different.

Quite frankly, you should scrap this car. Here's why, the California Air
Resources Board (CARB) has no aftermarket CATs that it certifies for this
car. This means that when you need a new CAT, you must get them from Ford
for a cost that is probably greater than the value of the car.

I do not know where you are, nor do I care. The point is that there are no
replacement CATs that are good enough to make CARB happy, and (like a
woman), if CARB aint happy, aint nobody happy. If you are outside of
Calif.,
and you buy an aftermarket CAT, it will not last and it will not work --
two
issues that CARB insists upon to certify for use.

Good luck.

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carc...Converter.html

EASTERN CATALYTIC Part # 830856 More Info Direct Fit. Center; Series 830800;
E.O # D-665-16; Legal Note In Compliance with the state of CA & NY (vehicles
with CA Emissions); Engine Family: TFM3.028G1GK; CARB FTB STD: TIER1.
$292.79



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's new, sorta. When my brother in law had an Aerostar, he could not get
a CAT without going to the dealer.

There are specific engines listed, maybe his engine was not one of these. I
do not know, and he does not have the car anymore.

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:42:15 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney" wrote in
message news "Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Fred James" wrote in message
...
Any way to remove enough of the body so that the a head gasket can be
replaced without pulling the engine out thru underneath? Probably not -
just wondering....


After several replies, you could remove the grille and stuff in front of
the
engine, then take out through the front. One seldom drops the engine out
the
bottom, although it could happen.

3 choices from the mechanic....

Complete used engine with 125K miles, 6 mo parts warranty - $2500
Complete used engine with 125K miles, 1 yr parts & labor warranty - $2650
Heads only $2400
Could not find a rebuilt engine

Talked with another mechanic known for many years.... I wanted him to
check
it and be sure it was a head gasket. Right away when he was milky
coolant,
he said it was a head gasket recommended getting rid of it. He knew there
were other problems - PS, heater, control arm bushings for starters. Plus
possibly trans down the road.

I'll look around and see what's out there. But with the choice of
spending
$3500 fixing this one or $10K+ on a newer van, I'll stay with the old one.

Cost after 5 years SWAG:

Fix old one -- $3500 repairs + $3K future repairs + $350 registration =
$6850.

Cost for trading to later mode -- $10K - $1K old sold + $1500 future
repairs
+ $810 sales tax + $1K registration. $14,310.



Rough estimate of the cost of $10K one..... $10K less $1000 sell to state
or
junk yard = $9K cost. Plus $810 sales tax, plus $200/year registration.\

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm confused. You asked if the head gaskets can be replaced by removing
body
panels to gain access instead of by taking the engine out.through the
bottom. My reply was that you remove the grille and take the engine out
through the front. To that, you list up options that all are replacing the
engine in one way or another, and this brings us back to taking it out
through the front. My answer is the same, even if your options are
different.

Quite frankly, you should scrap this car. Here's why, the California Air
Resources Board (CARB) has no aftermarket CATs that it certifies for this
car. This means that when you need a new CAT, you must get them from Ford
for a cost that is probably greater than the value of the car.

I do not know where you are, nor do I care. The point is that there are no
replacement CATs that are good enough to make CARB happy, and (like a
woman), if CARB aint happy, aint nobody happy. If you are outside of
Calif.,
and you buy an aftermarket CAT, it will not last and it will not work --
two
issues that CARB insists upon to certify for use.

Good luck.

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carc...Converter.html

EASTERN CATALYTIC Part # 830856 More Info Direct Fit. Center; Series 830800;
E.O # D-665-16; Legal Note In Compliance with the state of CA & NY (vehicles
with CA Emissions); Engine Family: TFM3.028G1GK; CARB FTB STD: TIER1.
$292.79



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's new, sorta. When my brother in law had an Aerostar, he could not get
a CAT without going to the dealer.

There are specific engines listed, maybe his engine was not one of these. I
do not know, and he does not have the car anymore.

I believe there was a time early on where the only direct fit
aftermarket cat for the 4.0 Aerostar had a faulty reduction catalyst
(did not process NOx very well) but that was fixed over 10 years ago.
Back then, most cats were still under warranty so there was no great
incentive for the aftermarket to spend a lot of resources on it. I
believe it was only for 1996 and 1997 OBD2 vehicles - the 1989-95 used
a different cat with only 1 O2 sensor, while the 96-97 required 2 O2
sensor bungs.
IIRC, the replacement '96-'97 cat was later supplied for the earlier
models with a plug to fill the after-cat O2 bung.

Don't remember if the problem affected the 3.0 engines as well or not

wrote in message
...

I believe there was a time early on where the only direct fit
aftermarket cat for the 4.0 Aerostar had a faulty reduction catalyst
(did not process NOx very well) but that was fixed over 10 years ago.
Back then, most cats were still under warranty so there was no great
incentive for the aftermarket to spend a lot of resources on it. I
believe it was only for 1996 and 1997 OBD2 vehicles - the 1989-95 used
a different cat with only 1 O2 sensor, while the 96-97 required 2 O2
sensor bungs.
IIRC, the replacement '96-'97 cat was later supplied for the earlier
models with a plug to fill the after-cat O2 bung.

Don't remember if the problem affected the 3.0 engines as well or not


I am not sure which engine my brother in law had, but it was nowhere near
ten years ago when I spoke to the BAR in Calif., about options for an
Aerostar that did not pass smog. There are many non-approved aftermarket
CATs out there, but the only one I could get that was approved was from the
dealer channel.

The point is, before the OP embarks on an expensive service, he might
consider future costs and availability of parts, such as the CAT. My brother
in law scrapped his Aerostar because it was a pile of crap, and needed a
very expensive part. If somebody has a nice specimen that is worth repairing
today, but has exposure to future costs the might be encurred before the
current repairs ammortize out, then maybe current repairs should be
deferred. I'm just giving a data point to cover. If it covers, then fine. If
it does not cover, then, you're welcome for the information.