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Furnace problem
I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit.
When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. |
Furnace problem
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 8:58:09 PM UTC-6, philo wrote:
I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. How old is the ignitor? The resistance sounds right and its AC. You may have a solder break on the controller relay, giving you the intermittent. |
Furnace problem
philo wrote:
I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . -- Snag |
Furnace problem
On 01/21/2015 09:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 8:58:09 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. How old is the ignitor? The resistance sounds right and its AC. You may have a solder break on the controller relay, giving you the intermittent. The ignitor is maybe 8 years old and I took it out and it looks good... When I turn the furnace on, at the time the ignitor should be glowing I'm only getting 4 vac at the leads which I know is too low to make it glow. My guess however that it needs more than 24 volts as I applied 24 volts to it and it only got very slightly warm |
Furnace problem
On 01/21/2015 09:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 |
Furnace problem
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 9:57:43 PM UTC-6, philo wrote:
On 01/21/2015 09:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Before ordering one check the solder-side and look for cracks...it's fairly common. And look for a burned component... |
Furnace problem
On 01/21/2015 10:27 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 9:57:43 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: On 01/21/2015 09:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Before ordering one check the solder-side and look for cracks...it's fairly common. And look for a burned component... Ok I'll have to remove and inspect. If it's not repairable I don't think I want to sink $500 into a 22 year old furnace. |
Furnace problem
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 10:30:38 PM UTC-6, philo wrote:
On 01/21/2015 10:27 PM, bob_villa wrote: On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 9:57:43 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: On 01/21/2015 09:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Before ordering one check the solder-side and look for cracks...it's fairly common. And look for a burned component... Ok I'll have to remove and inspect. If it's not repairable I don't think I want to sink $500 into a 22 year old furnace. Good thought... |
Furnace problem
On 01/21/2015 10:47 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 10:30:38 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: On 01/21/2015 10:27 PM, bob_villa wrote: On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 9:57:43 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: On 01/21/2015 09:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Before ordering one check the solder-side and look for cracks...it's fairly common. And look for a burned component... Ok I'll have to remove and inspect. If it's not repairable I don't think I want to sink $500 into a 22 year old furnace. Good thought... Thanks for the help...looks like I'm getting somewhere. I took every single wire off and removed the control unit...put it on my bench and opened it up...It's like new inside clean and shiny. I then just put everything back together and made are all connections were good...and I'll be darned the furnace started right up. None of the wires or push on connectors looked burned...so it very well may have been tarnish... I worked with push-on connectors for my job and though it was not common, I had seen that before. If it stays working for the next few days hopefully it will stay that way for a while... but I will be seriously thinking of replacing the furnace... but don't want to have it done in an emergency. |
Furnace problem
Must have just been a fluke
the furnace ignitor did not work a 2nd time Since I can light it manually and the temp here is moderate...even though it looks like new furnace time...I at least won't have to make it an emergency call plus...we have a 220v baseboard heater that can keep the upstairs quite warm even without a furnace . |
Furnace problem
On 1/21/2015 10:54 PM, philo wrote:
The ignitor is maybe 8 years old and I took it out and it looks good... When I turn the furnace on, at the time the ignitor should be glowing I'm only getting 4 vac at the leads which I know is too low to make it glow. My guess however that it needs more than 24 volts as I applied 24 volts to it and it only got very slightly warm What little I know of furnace igniters, typically 110 VAC. Some units, they detect the amperage of the igniter, won't open the gas valve if it's too high or low. You mention match light, so that's not an issue. -- .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
Furnace problem
On 1/22/2015 12:30 AM, philo wrote:
Thanks for the help...looks like I'm getting somewhere. I took every single wire off and removed the control unit...put it on my bench and opened it up...It's like new inside clean and shiny. I then just put everything back together and made are all connections were good...and I'll be darned the furnace started right up. None of the wires or push on connectors looked burned...so it very well may have been tarnish... I worked with push-on connectors for my job and though it was not common, I had seen that before. If it stays working for the next few days hopefully it will stay that way for a while... but I will be seriously thinking of replacing the furnace... but don't want to have it done in an emergency. The so called "Molex" connectors, nylon plug with several pin and hole connectors, known to go bad. It's a wise idea to spray em with WD=40 when you put them back together. That displaces water, and helps the connection. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
Furnace problem
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 12:12:11 AM UTC-6, philo wrote:
Must have just been a fluke the furnace ignitor did not work a 2nd time Since I can light it manually and the temp here is moderate...even though it looks like new furnace time...I at least won't have to make it an emergency call plus...we have a 220v baseboard heater that can keep the upstairs quite warm even without a furnace . Is this the board: http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...ps714df0de.jpg Because there are quite a few relays on it? You might be able to change-out the one for the ignitor. |
Furnace problem
On 01/22/2015 07:15 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 12:12:11 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: Must have just been a fluke the furnace ignitor did not work a 2nd time Since I can light it manually and the temp here is moderate...even though it looks like new furnace time...I at least won't have to make it an emergency call plus...we have a 220v baseboard heater that can keep the upstairs quite warm even without a furnace . Is this the board: http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...ps714df0de.jpg Because there are quite a few relays on it? You might be able to change-out the one for the ignitor. That photo was very small and it was hard to make out...but the board does have a lot of relays on it and...yes I could figure out which one is for the ignitor and change it... Were it summer now, I'd do it However since the furnace is semi working now...I'm not sure I want to take the chance of taking it out completely Plus I found out that if I turn off the input power for a few hours, then turn it back on, it will start normally without me having to light it. |
Furnace problem
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 7:28:37 AM UTC-6, philo wrote:
On 01/22/2015 07:15 AM, bob_villa wrote: On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 12:12:11 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: Must have just been a fluke the furnace ignitor did not work a 2nd time Since I can light it manually and the temp here is moderate...even though it looks like new furnace time...I at least won't have to make it an emergency call plus...we have a 220v baseboard heater that can keep the upstairs quite warm even without a furnace . Is this the board: http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...ps714df0de.jpg Because there are quite a few relays on it? You might be able to change-out the one for the ignitor. That photo was very small and it was hard to make out...but the board does have a lot of relays on it and...yes I could figure out which one is for the ignitor and change it... Were it summer now, I'd do it However since the furnace is semi working now...I'm not sure I want to take the chance of taking it out completely Plus I found out that if I turn off the input power for a few hours, then turn it back on, it will start normally without me having to light it. I found a service bulletin that says the ignitor should be 11-18 ohms! http://www.traneflorida.com/pdf/Serv...letin_4-01.pdf |
Furnace problem
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 7:28:37 AM UTC-6, philo wrote:
On 01/22/2015 07:15 AM, bob_villa wrote: On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 12:12:11 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: Must have just been a fluke the furnace ignitor did not work a 2nd time Since I can light it manually and the temp here is moderate...even though it looks like new furnace time...I at least won't have to make it an emergency call plus...we have a 220v baseboard heater that can keep the upstairs quite warm even without a furnace . Is this the board: http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...ps714df0de.jpg Because there are quite a few relays on it? You might be able to change-out the one for the ignitor. That photo was very small and it was hard to make out...but the board does have a lot of relays on it and...yes I could figure out which one is for the ignitor and change it... Were it summer now, I'd do it However since the furnace is semi working now...I'm not sure I want to take the chance of taking it out completely Plus I found out that if I turn off the input power for a few hours, then turn it back on, it will start normally without me having to light it. Sorry, the image was larger on ebay and could be magnified. |
Furnace problem
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 8:03:23 AM UTC-6, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 7:28:37 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: That photo was very small and it was hard to make out...but the board does have a lot of relays on it and...yes I could figure out which one is for the ignitor and change it... Sorry, the image was larger on ebay and could be magnified. http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...psf30f3bba.jpg |
Furnace problem
On 01/22/2015 07:47 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 7:28:37 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: On 01/22/2015 07:15 AM, bob_villa wrote: On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 12:12:11 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: Must have just been a fluke the furnace ignitor did not work a 2nd time Since I can light it manually and the temp here is moderate...even though it looks like new furnace time...I at least won't have to make it an emergency call plus...we have a 220v baseboard heater that can keep the upstairs quite warm even without a furnace . Is this the board: http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...ps714df0de.jpg Because there are quite a few relays on it? You might be able to change-out the one for the ignitor. That photo was very small and it was hard to make out...but the board does have a lot of relays on it and...yes I could figure out which one is for the ignitor and change it... Were it summer now, I'd do it However since the furnace is semi working now...I'm not sure I want to take the chance of taking it out completely Plus I found out that if I turn off the input power for a few hours, then turn it back on, it will start normally without me having to light it. I found a service bulletin that says the ignitor should be 11-18 ohms! http://www.traneflorida.com/pdf/Serv...letin_4-01.pdf I looked up the specs on the exact ignitor I have and the cold resistance is approx normal http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/Fla...niters%202.pdf Plus it /does? work when there is 115v on it. The problem is that the output is only usually 4 volts... but if I turn the furnace off for a few hours and turn it back on...the first time it does supply the right voltage. Anyway this was the year I was going to replace the furnace anyway and I now have a contractor coming out to give me an estimate on a new one. Also: I got a look at the 2nd image you posted and it's not the same control that I have...but it's somewhat similar. There is a Trane parts depot here in town and they do not have a control in stock, they'd have to order it Thank you very much for the great help |
Furnace problem
philo wrote:
On 01/21/2015 09:08 PM, bob_villa wrote: On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 8:58:09 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. How old is the ignitor? The resistance sounds right and its AC. You may have a solder break on the controller relay, giving you the intermittent. The ignitor is maybe 8 years old and I took it out and it looks good... When I turn the furnace on, at the time the ignitor should be glowing I'm only getting 4 vac at the leads which I know is too low to make it glow. My guess however that it needs more than 24 volts as I applied 24 volts to it and it only got very slightly warm Hi, Most trouble part of a furnace is HSI and flame sensor. HSI needs replacing, flame sensor needs cleaning. HSI is like ~40.00 or so. I'd just put in a new one and see. I always keep spare HSI, one at home abd one at cabin. HSI is like big filament in a light bulb. With age it won't produce high temp. It has to glow real bright red when it is on. Worth checking loose connector too. You can tighten the connector female pins. |
Furnace problem
philo wrote:
On 01/21/2015 09:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. Check that control board for dust/dirt , at the low voltage signal levels they work at it's possible there's a short circuit - especially if there's any condensaton/moisture present . Also possible if they used no-lead solder that there are tin whiskers shorting something out . Also pull and replace any signal-level control wiring plugs , sometimes a layer of oxidation can kill the signal . Had exactly that scenario happen several years ago with a car . I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Hi, If you suspect relay, there is one for HSI It is very small. I replaced a relay once on my old furnace with one for laser printer fuser control circuit. Small molded piece with 4 pins sticking out, rated at like 3 Amp./120V AC rated contacts. |
Furnace problem
On 01/22/2015 09:05 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
philo wrote: On 01/21/2015 09:08 PM, bob_villa wrote: On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 8:58:09 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. How old is the ignitor? The resistance sounds right and its AC. You may have a solder break on the controller relay, giving you the intermittent. The ignitor is maybe 8 years old and I took it out and it looks good... When I turn the furnace on, at the time the ignitor should be glowing I'm only getting 4 vac at the leads which I know is too low to make it glow. My guess however that it needs more than 24 volts as I applied 24 volts to it and it only got very slightly warm Hi, Most trouble part of a furnace is HSI and flame sensor. HSI needs replacing, flame sensor needs cleaning. HSI is like ~40.00 or so. I'd just put in a new one and see. I always keep spare HSI, one at home abd one at cabin. HSI is like big filament in a light bulb. With age it won't produce high temp. It has to glow real bright red when it is on. Worth checking loose connector too. You can tighten the connector female pins. Yep went through everything... the controller does not supply voltage to the ignitor (except if furnace is left off for a few hours, then it sometimes works) Don't want to risk repairing the control board, this being winter... as the furnace does work now if I light it manually. Local supplier does not have the control module and it would be quite expensive. ($470 ) Since I was going to replace this 23 year old furnace this year anyway, might as well do it now. Many folks here recommended Goodman, so I am having the local deal stop by and estimate the job in about 4 hours. It it costs no more than two toilets I'll get it done. (This summer a plumber told me it would be $2000 to replace a toilet that I replaced myself for $80) |
Furnace problem
On 01/22/2015 09:12 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Hi, If you suspect relay, there is one for HSI It is very small. I replaced a relay once on my old furnace with one for laser printer fuser control circuit. Small molded piece with 4 pins sticking out, rated at like 3 Amp./120V AC rated contacts. Many years ago I used to repair control boards so I'm sure I could replace the relay...but...this being winter I'd hate to see what would happen if I screwed something up and took the furnace out completely. Plus, since it's 23 years old, more than likely something else is going to go soon anyway...the exhaust motor is pretty discolored etc. This is the year I was going to get a new furnace...so I'll just be a few months early |
Furnace problem
philo wrote:
On 01/22/2015 09:12 AM, Tony Hwang wrote: I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Hi, If you suspect relay, there is one for HSI It is very small. I replaced a relay once on my old furnace with one for laser printer fuser control circuit. Small molded piece with 4 pins sticking out, rated at like 3 Amp./120V AC rated contacts. Many years ago I used to repair control boards so I'm sure I could replace the relay...but...this being winter I'd hate to see what would happen if I screwed something up and took the furnace out completely. Plus, since it's 23 years old, more than likely something else is going to go soon anyway...the exhaust motor is pretty discolored etc. This is the year I was going to get a new furnace...so I'll just be a few months early Hi, In winter time when the price is high, LOL! That's what happened to my old furnace. I had to stand beside furnace and lighting it up with BBQ lighter. Being week end I couldn't get new HSI any where in town. On Monday I got one from a service tech who charged like 90.00 for it. When summer came I had the furnace replaced. Good thing we have two NG FP in the house. It was good help. Now I stock spare HSI. Hope you find a GOOD installer. |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On 01/22/2015 09:37 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
philo wrote: On 01/22/2015 09:12 AM, Tony Hwang wrote: I PM my furnace every year and the control board is clean and dry. The leads are pushed properly but I will double check, The controller is sealed and solid state so it does not look like there is a relay that I could replace myself. The controller is a CNT1523 and I see them on-line for $500 Hi, If you suspect relay, there is one for HSI It is very small. I replaced a relay once on my old furnace with one for laser printer fuser control circuit. Small molded piece with 4 pins sticking out, rated at like 3 Amp./120V AC rated contacts. Many years ago I used to repair control boards so I'm sure I could replace the relay...but...this being winter I'd hate to see what would happen if I screwed something up and took the furnace out completely. Plus, since it's 23 years old, more than likely something else is going to go soon anyway...the exhaust motor is pretty discolored etc. This is the year I was going to get a new furnace...so I'll just be a few months early Hi, In winter time when the price is high, LOL! That's what happened to my old furnace. I had to stand beside furnace and lighting it up with BBQ lighter. Being week end I couldn't get new HSI any where in town. On Monday I got one from a service tech who charged like 90.00 for it. When summer came I had the furnace replaced. Good thing we have two NG FP in the house. It was good help. Now I stock spare HSI. Hope you find a GOOD installer. Even though it's winter and I am sure I'll be paying more, at least it's not a total emergency. Since the owner of the firm I called answered the phone himself on the first ring...I'm guessing that even though it's winter, he may not be that busy. Good thing I have a few of those BBQ lighters here. Now I realize I have another question. Since I expect to be moving up to a high-efficiency furnace that won't need the chimney...I still will have a gas water heater that /does/ use the chimney. I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-6, philo wrote:
I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. I've been using mine for 20 yrs as you describe...WH is in the chimney by itself. |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On 01/22/2015 10:09 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. I've been using mine for 20 yrs as you describe...WH is in the chimney by itself. No liner in the chimney? If it will work as-is...one less thing I will have to deal with this weekend. |
Furnace problem
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 10:12:45 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 01/22/2015 09:05 AM, Tony Hwang wrote: philo wrote: On 01/21/2015 09:08 PM, bob_villa wrote: On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 8:58:09 PM UTC-6, philo wrote: I've got a Trane XV-80 furnace that just tonight quit. When starting the ignitor /sometimes/ glows but most of the time does not...and either way the furnace does not light. I can light it manually with a match and it will run normally. The ignigtor appears to be OK...no breaks and the resistance is 130 ohms What voltage do they operate at and is it AC or DC? Looks like it must be the controller itself and I know that is going to be expensive. How old is the ignitor? The resistance sounds right and its AC. You may have a solder break on the controller relay, giving you the intermittent. The ignitor is maybe 8 years old and I took it out and it looks good... When I turn the furnace on, at the time the ignitor should be glowing I'm only getting 4 vac at the leads which I know is too low to make it glow. My guess however that it needs more than 24 volts as I applied 24 volts to it and it only got very slightly warm Hi, Most trouble part of a furnace is HSI and flame sensor. HSI needs replacing, flame sensor needs cleaning. HSI is like ~40.00 or so. I'd just put in a new one and see. I always keep spare HSI, one at home abd one at cabin. HSI is like big filament in a light bulb. With age it won't produce high temp. It has to glow real bright red when it is on. Worth checking loose connector too. You can tighten the connector female pins. Yep went through everything... the controller does not supply voltage to the ignitor (except if furnace is left off for a few hours, then it sometimes works) Don't want to risk repairing the control board, this being winter... as the furnace does work now if I light it manually. Local supplier does not have the control module and it would be quite expensive. ($470 ) Since I was going to replace this 23 year old furnace this year anyway, might as well do it now. Many folks here recommended Goodman, so I am having the local deal stop by and estimate the job in about 4 hours. It it costs no more than two toilets I'll get it done. (This summer a plumber told me it would be $2000 to replace a toilet that I replaced myself for $80) I replaced my old Ruud with a new Rheem. Very happy with both, they are made by the same company. The Ruud went 27 years, only needed to add a hard-start kit to the AC. Rheem's been in 3 years now, 93%, two stage, variable speed blower. Really surprised at the fuel savings, probably 40%+. I was expecting a decent improvement, but that was more than I hoped for. I'm really a fan of the two stage concept too. At full output, I can raise the temp 6F an hour. That lets me get the house back up quickly after being away. It runs at low stage when maintaining the temp, ie most of the time. Without two stage if you want a bigger furnace to be able to heat quickly, then it's not going to run as much as it should to move air around, etc when it's just maintaining. |
Furnace problem
On 1/22/2015 8:28 AM, philo wrote:
Plus I found out that if I turn off the input power for a few hours, then turn it back on, it will start normally without me having to light it. Makes me wonder if some safety feature is resetting? - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
Furnace problem
On 1/22/2015 9:31 AM, philo wrote:
There is a Trane parts depot here in town and they do not have a control in stock, they'd have to order it Thank you very much for the great help I've found Trane, some times the parts are not easy or cheap to find. Part of thier trade mark, like Sears and the off spec parts. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On 1/22/2015 10:50 AM, philo wrote:
Since I expect to be moving up to a high-efficiency furnace that won't need the chimney...I still will have a gas water heater that /does/ use the chimney. I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. I've heard that about the chimney. it should be possible to pull a chimney liner, and that will work. I've done a bunch of those when I did HVAC. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 10:16:18 AM UTC-6, philo wrote:
On 01/22/2015 10:09 AM, bob_villa wrote: On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. I've been using mine for 20 yrs as you describe...WH is in the chimney by itself. No liner in the chimney? If it will work as-is...one less thing I will have to deal with this weekend. I checked...I have an 8" double-walled chimney. When I bought the house the furnace was oil-fired and had a woodburner in a common stack (not code). The WH was electric. I didn't use the woodburner. Now it's NG WH and furnace....is your friend saying the cold draft in Winter is going to be a problem to overcome for the WH alone? |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On 01/22/2015 11:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:
X snip No liner in the chimney? If it will work as-is...one less thing I will have to deal with this weekend. I checked...I have an 8" double-walled chimney. When I bought the house the furnace was oil-fired and had a woodburner in a common stack (not code). The WH was electric. I didn't use the woodburner. Now it's NG WH and furnace...is your friend saying the cold draft in Winter is going to be a problem to overcome for the WH alone? Yes, that'd what he told me and the guy is a building inspector... however he did make that statement without seeing the setup here. OTOH: When the heating contractor gets here within the next couple of hours, I'll ask him for an opinion...since he does this for a living he should know. |
Furnace problem
On 01/22/2015 10:21 AM, trader_4 wrote:
snip Yep went through everything... the controller does not supply voltage to the ignitor (except if furnace is left off for a few hours, then it sometimes works) Don't want to risk repairing the control board, this being winter... as the furnace does work now if I light it manually. Local supplier does not have the control module and it would be quite expensive. ($470 ) Since I was going to replace this 23 year old furnace this year anyway, might as well do it now. Many folks here recommended Goodman, so I am having the local deal stop by and estimate the job in about 4 hours. It it costs no more than two toilets I'll get it done. (This summer a plumber told me it would be $2000 to replace a toilet that I replaced myself for $80) I replaced my old Ruud with a new Rheem. Very happy with both, they are made by the same company. The Ruud went 27 years, only needed to add a hard-start kit to the AC. Rheem's been in 3 years now, 93%, two stage, variable speed blower. Really surprised at the fuel savings, probably 40%+. I was expecting a decent improvement, but that was more than I hoped for. I'm really a fan of the two stage concept too. At full output, I can raise the temp 6F an hour. That lets me get the house back up quickly after being away. It runs at low stage when maintaining the temp, ie most of the time. Without two stage if you want a bigger furnace to be able to heat quickly, then it's not going to run as much as it should to move air around, etc when it's just maintaining. The old furnace is a two-stage and I really like that...it's not a high efficiency type (80% I think) so I imagine the when I go to one, the savings on gas will be appreciated. |
Furnace problem
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 11:50:22 -0600, philo wrote:
The old furnace is a two-stage and I really like that...it's not a high efficiency type (80% I think) so I imagine the when I go to one, the savings on gas will be appreciated. ....any federal, state, local rebate programs available. I had HVAC system replaced a couple of years ago. I even got a tax credit (?) for a "qualified" garage door when it was replaced :-) |
Furnace problem
On 01/22/2015 12:00 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 11:50:22 -0600, philo wrote: The old furnace is a two-stage and I really like that...it's not a high efficiency type (80% I think) so I imagine the when I go to one, the savings on gas will be appreciated. ...any federal, state, local rebate programs available. I will have to check on that. I had HVAC system replaced a couple of years ago. I even got a tax credit (?) for a "qualified" garage door when it was replaced :-) |
Furnace problem
trace the circuit on the controller board for the HSI and resolder all the associated joints
Mark |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. I've been using mine for 20 yrs as you describe...WH is in the chimney by itself. Hi, In my case they had to upgrade WH for B vent and had the chimney lined with much smaller cap. Still WH vent thru chimney. Furnace has vent going outside side ways with little slope towards furnace to prevent standing water. fresh air intake is smaller pipe within the vent with a screen. It is 2 stage one but I notice 2nd stage comes on very seldom. Also I decided to use 16x25x5 filter replacing electronic cleaner. Electric WH recovery rate is slower so always need bigger size one but they seem to last longer. |
Furnace problem (one one more ?)
philo wrote:
On 01/22/2015 11:13 AM, bob_villa wrote: X snip No liner in the chimney? If it will work as-is...one less thing I will have to deal with this weekend. I checked...I have an 8" double-walled chimney. When I bought the house the furnace was oil-fired and had a woodburner in a common stack (not code). The WH was electric. I didn't use the woodburner. Now it's NG WH and furnace...is your friend saying the cold draft in Winter is going to be a problem to overcome for the WH alone? Yes, that'd what he told me and the guy is a building inspector... however he did make that statement without seeing the setup here. OTOH: When the heating contractor gets here within the next couple of hours, I'll ask him for an opinion...since he does this for a living he should know Hi, Our WH has Piezo lighter. Never had any draft problem, not even once. |
Furnace problem ordered new furance
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Furnace problem (one one more ?)
On 01/22/2015 01:25 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villa wrote: On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-6, philo wrote: I was told by a friend that without a furnace, the water heater won't exhaust properly since the chimney has no liner. ( That did not make complete sense as the water heater and furnace would not necessarily operate at the same time) Do you or anyone else know if that's true? If so, I may just end up getting an electric water heater and completely eliminate the chimney. I've been using mine for 20 yrs as you describe...WH is in the chimney by itself. Hi, In my case they had to upgrade WH for B vent and had the chimney lined with much smaller cap. Still WH vent thru chimney. Furnace has vent going outside side ways with little slope towards furnace to prevent standing water. fresh air intake is smaller pipe within the vent with a screen. It is 2 stage one but I notice 2nd stage comes on very seldom. Also I decided to use 16x25x5 filter replacing electronic cleaner. Electric WH recovery rate is slower so always need bigger size one but they seem to last longer. The contractor told me that a liner for the water heater is recommended simply to keep the chimney from deteriorating...so I am not going to bother with that. The chimney is maybe 20 years old and I will replace the water heater (eventually) with a non-chimney type. With my new furnace I opted for an Aprilaire filter which should be better than the piece of junk I have now. |
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