I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.

Not only dont those 4way wrenches always seem too sloppy on the nut, but
they bend. And it seems that because they flex and bend, they lack the
power needed to bust loose a stubborn nut.

I tried everything to loosen them. I even carry a piece of pipe, and
slipped that over the end of the wrench, and could not loosen even one
of them.

I finally called a friend who has a lot of tools, and asked him to bring
a breaker bar and socket. With his breaker bar/socket, I was able to
get some torque. I still had to use my pipe on a few of them, but they
came loose. With that 4way, I could not budge them at all, and I was
probably applying more pressure.

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Thanks

On 12/25/2014 8:09 AM, wrote:
I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.

Not only dont those 4way wrenches always seem too sloppy on the nut, but
they bend. And it seems that because they flex and bend, they lack the
power needed to bust loose a stubborn nut.

I tried everything to loosen them. I even carry a piece of pipe, and
slipped that over the end of the wrench, and could not loosen even one
of them.

I finally called a friend who has a lot of tools, and asked him to bring
a breaker bar and socket. With his breaker bar/socket, I was able to
get some torque. I still had to use my pipe on a few of them, but they
came loose. With that 4way, I could not budge them at all, and I was
probably applying more pressure.

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Thanks


Probably the ideal solution is to use a torque wrench when applying the
nuts and to make sure that the studs and nuts are clean. I've never had a
problem removing nuts that were properly applied even with the short wrench
that came with my MX-5.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:09:37 -0600, wrote:

I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.

Not only dont those 4way wrenches always seem too sloppy on the nut, but
they bend. And it seems that because they flex and bend, they lack the
power needed to bust loose a stubborn nut.

I tried everything to loosen them. I even carry a piece of pipe, and
slipped that over the end of the wrench, and could not loosen even one
of them.

I finally called a friend who has a lot of tools, and asked him to bring
a breaker bar and socket. With his breaker bar/socket, I was able to
get some torque. I still had to use my pipe on a few of them, but they
came loose. With that 4way, I could not budge them at all, and I was
probably applying more pressure.

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Thanks

You are on the right track. Buy a good "breaker bar" and the proper 6
point socket to fit. A decent ratchet type bar is nice, but a cheape
will just fail when you need it most.

I just use the unremarkable wrench that came
with my pickup, but I carry a length of black
pipe to slip over it. The extra leverage, and the
stiffening the pipe provides, makes all the difference.

wrote:
I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.

Not only dont those 4way wrenches always seem too sloppy on the nut, but
they bend. And it seems that because they flex and bend, they lack the
power needed to bust loose a stubborn nut.

I tried everything to loosen them. I even carry a piece of pipe, and
slipped that over the end of the wrench, and could not loosen even one
of them.

I finally called a friend who has a lot of tools, and asked him to bring
a breaker bar and socket. With his breaker bar/socket, I was able to
get some torque. I still had to use my pipe on a few of them, but they
came loose. With that 4way, I could not budge them at all, and I was
probably applying more pressure.

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Thanks


Hmmm,
You grease the nus? 6 point black steel socket used for impact wrench
is what you need with braker bar. I have HEAVY commercial truck tire
wrench but I call road side assistance in case like that. Maybe you
over tightened nuts in summer.

Tony Hwang wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:37:38 -0700:

You grease the nus?

I use Never Seize on mine, but, then you have to be careful
with torque.

Also, some (older Chrysler) lug nuts & bolts are reverse threaded
(I hope they don't do that anymore) on one side.

First time I ran into that, as a kid, I snapped off two bolts
before I figured it out (yeah, I know).

Tony Hwang wrote:

6 point black steel socket used for impact wrench
is what you need with braker bar.

Depends. A deep wall impact socket won't fit into the recessed holes on my
alloy rims.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 13:26:32 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

Tony Hwang wrote:

6 point black steel socket used for impact wrench
is what you need with braker bar.

Depends. A deep wall impact socket won't fit into the recessed holes on my
alloy rims.
On my Ranger the Eagle Alloy Torque Thrust Clones won't even allow a
thinwall 12 point on a 13/16" nut - so when the alloys are on they are
atteched with "spline drive" "tuner" nuts which require a special
"key" socket - which requires the 13/16" wrench to turn.

wrote:

On my Ranger the Eagle Alloy Torque Thrust Clones won't even allow a
thinwall 12 point on a 13/16" nut - so when the alloys are on they are
atteched with "spline drive" "tuner" nuts which require a special
"key" socket - which requires the 13/16" wrench to turn.

Yeah, a friend has those on his wheels. The added advantage is a thief
needs the special socket before he leaves your ride up on cinder blocks.

Jerry.Tan wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:09:37 -0600:

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

1. Perhaps the lug nuts were torqued too tightly?
2. I often step, and bounce, on my lug-nut wrench.
3. Whenever you junk a car, keep the old lug nut wrench (if you like it).

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 10:12:25 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:

1. Perhaps the lug nuts were torqued too tightly?


That would be my guess. If you grease them you must reduce the torque you put on them.

An alternative to grease is Teflon tape. Works anywhere you would use antiseize and is less messy.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 10:53:31 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 10:12:25 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:

1. Perhaps the lug nuts were torqued too tightly?


That would be my guess. If you grease them you must reduce the torque you put on them.

An alternative to grease is Teflon tape. Works anywhere you would use antiseize and is less messy.
Teflon Tape is designed for tapered threads - I would NEVER use it
on a straight thread - particularly on a safety related item like a
wheel stud/nut pair. NEVER.

I agree with Clare on the teflon tape. Since lugs are a straight (not tapered) thread, the teflon tape will only make it easier for the nuts to loosen on their own.

I think the problem is that the OP is using an ordinary grease on his wheel lugs. While I expect that's better than nothing, ordinary grease will not prevent metal to metal contact between the lug and nut, thereby resulting in seizing where the lug and nut are in metal-to-metal contact.

I would advise the OP to switch from whatever grease he's using to a copper antiseize compound. Copper antiseize compound is nothing more than tiny particles of copper metal mixed with grease. Those tiny particles of copper get caught between the lug and nut preventing actual metal-to-metal contact between the lug and nut, thereby preventing any seizing of the nut to the lug thread.

I always use a metal antiseize compound on my wheel lugs, and I've never had a problem removing lug nuts in summer or winter. I like Permatex antiseize compound, but ANY antiseize compound should work fine. Nickel based antiseize compounds are exactly the same, except they use tiny particles of nickel instead of copper and are generally required in higher temperature applications where the copper could conceivably soften or even melt.

If the OP questions why that should make a difference, just consider putting white metal knobs on a brass cartridge spindle. Leave that white metal in contact with the brass for a few years, and you'll have a real fight getting that faucet knob off. Put antiseize compound on between the white metal knob and the brass cartridge stem, and you'll never have a problem getting the knob off.

nestork wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 03:24:24 +0100:

I agree with Clare on the teflon tape.

I think the OP would need to be crazy to use Teflon tape.
Even the anti-seize may be a bit too much, but I use it
as the sacrificial metal in the galvanic reaction that
inevitably occurs with the metal-on-metal connection.

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 4:35:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 10:53:31 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 10:12:25 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:

1. Perhaps the lug nuts were torqued too tightly?


That would be my guess. If you grease them you must reduce the torque you put on them.

An alternative to grease is Teflon tape. Works anywhere you would use antiseize and is less messy.
Teflon Tape is designed for tapered threads - I would NEVER use it
on a straight thread - particularly on a safety related item like a
wheel stud/nut pair. NEVER.

Whatever it was designed for - and I tend to doubt that the taper had anything to do with it - but whatever, it is now used successfully for a huge array of purposes never thought of originally. Anywhere a fastener needs to be eventually removed, and could use some lube when installed, teflon tape has proved successful, including some high temp applications I would never have thought of.

On 12/25/2014 7:09 AM, wrote:
....

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!
....

I'm sure there are but I've not looked. I've never had a time the
furnished didn't suffice.

I do have a 4-way that is none of the above--but, it's at least 60 yr
old and possibly quite a lot older than that. In general, however, and
this one is the same way, they really aren't that long so they don't
have much actual leverage. The overall length of an arm from one end to
the other is all right, but it's only half of that length that is the
useful lever-arm length.

I've thought of the 12V DC direct-powered impact drivers to put in
wife's car but never really checked them out to know if they really
solve the problem or not...

I have a battery-powered one that has sufficient torque it'll do
anything but the largest truck/tractor, but in a car it'll be certain
that it doesn't get charged frequently enough so it'll likely be
discharged the time you really need it.

--

On 12/25/2014 8:09 AM, wrote:
I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.

Not only dont those 4way wrenches always seem too sloppy on the nut, but
they bend. And it seems that because they flex and bend, they lack the
power needed to bust loose a stubborn nut.

I tried everything to loosen them. I even carry a piece of pipe, and
slipped that over the end of the wrench, and could not loosen even one
of them.

I finally called a friend who has a lot of tools, and asked him to bring
a breaker bar and socket. With his breaker bar/socket, I was able to
get some torque. I still had to use my pipe on a few of them, but they
came loose. With that 4way, I could not budge them at all, and I was
probably applying more pressure.

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Thanks


I believe the real problem lies within the rusts on the bolts and nuts.
I have changed many tires in past years and my experience notices the
bolts/nuts that weren't properly lubricated provided the most problems
when removing. When they were lubricated I never had a problem.

Using never seize is a risk. I have heard, as well as had my own
experience, of the nut(s) unscrewing while driving. My own experience
after using NS was my rear passenger wheel clanging, clunking, knocking,
etc while I was driving and I thought my entire drum assembly was
broken. When I pulled over to look, the tire was missing two nuts, one
was almost off and the other was loose but mostly on. Therefore, I
always suggest a spray lube to prevent rust. Rust is why lugnuts are
hard to remove. IMO, Aero Kroil is one of the best. It keeps rust off
and maintains a coating on the bolts and nuts to prevent further buildup.

wrote:

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

You've answered your own question. But a 1/2" breaker bar and a quality
socket that fits. For my set of alloy wheels, that would be a deepwall
socket although the deep socket works fine on the steel wheels too. An
extension may help too, depending on the wheel/tire. A 1/2" ratchet can be
useful too.

There's no reason to break the bank either. I'm not a Harbor Freight fan but
their wrenches are serviceable.

I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.
I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.

I ditched the 4-way lug wrench a long time ago and picked up a long 1/2"
breaker bar with the exact 6-point socket to fit. Depending on how deep
your lugs sit back in the wheel, you might need a short extension too.
Since lugs are under a lot of torque, I bought a good quality Craftsman bar
and socket. Yes, they're expensive, but a $30-40 investment is minimal for
a vehicle. You don't want cheap tools that break when you're stuck on the
side of a lonely road somewhere.

One bonus of a breaker bar and socket is they are light weight and are easy
to store in your vehicle.

I have never needed a pipe on my breaker bar. Most times it is easy to
loosen the lugs by hand. However, on some occasions the tire shops really
over torque the lugs and the lugs are stuck after a couple years. I just
angle the bar parallel to the ground and stand on the end of the bar as
needed. There has never been a lug I couldn't get loose with this
technique. Of course, no harm done if you have room to carry the pipe too.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:54:37 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.
I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.

I ditched the 4-way lug wrench a long time ago and picked up a long 1/2"
breaker bar with the exact 6-point socket to fit. Depending on how deep
your lugs sit back in the wheel, you might need a short extension too.
Since lugs are under a lot of torque, I bought a good quality Craftsman bar
and socket. Yes, they're expensive, but a $30-40 investment is minimal for
a vehicle. You don't want cheap tools that break when you're stuck on the
side of a lonely road somewhere.

One bonus of a breaker bar and socket is they are light weight and are easy
to store in your vehicle.

I have never needed a pipe on my breaker bar. Most times it is easy to
loosen the lugs by hand. However, on some occasions the tire shops really
over torque the lugs and the lugs are stuck after a couple years. I just
angle the bar parallel to the ground and stand on the end of the bar as
needed. There has never been a lug I couldn't get loose with this
technique. Of course, no harm done if you have room to carry the pipe too.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
Then there is always the "newfy impact wrench" Put the socket on the
nut with the breaker bar pointed at the ground in the direction of
motion required to undo the nut, bar end on the ground, and put the
car in gear. Guaranteed to do one of 3 things - remove the nut, break
the stud, or break the wrench.

I've done all 3 at one point or another. Have not managed to jack the
car up over the breaker bar yet but I guess that would be a 4th
possibility.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:39:58 -0500, wrote:

Then there is always the "newfy impact wrench" Put the socket on the
nut with the breaker bar pointed at the ground in the direction of
motion required to undo the nut, bar end on the ground, and put the
car in gear. Guaranteed to do one of 3 things - remove the nut, break
the stud, or break the wrench.

I've done all 3 at one point or another. Have not managed to jack the
car up over the breaker bar yet but I guess that would be a 4th
possibility.

That's a new one on me

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 12:17:58 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:39:58 -0500, wrote:

Then there is always the "newfy impact wrench" Put the socket on the
nut with the breaker bar pointed at the ground in the direction of
motion required to undo the nut, bar end on the ground, and put the
car in gear. Guaranteed to do one of 3 things - remove the nut, break
the stud, or break the wrench.

I've done all 3 at one point or another. Have not managed to jack the
car up over the breaker bar yet but I guess that would be a 4th
possibility.

That's a new one on me
I use the same method to remove crank pulley bolts.
It is one of many "zam-fixes" I learned while in Central Africa
(Zambia) teaching the automotive trade, which I later found werer also
used by our resourcefull East Coast latecomers to confederation.

wrote:

I've done all 3 at one point or another. Have not managed to jack the
car up over the breaker bar yet but I guess that would be a 4th
possibility.

I tried that with my '51 Chevy, iirc, to break the bead on the tire. The car
jacked up just fine. My memory is a little cloudy on the point but I think
the owner's manuals back in the day illustrated the technique.

Anyway, I let the car down and went on to some other scheme to break the
bead.

My current scheme with lug nuts is, if a tire shop mounts the tires, to
drive directly home, take the nuts off with an impact wrench if necessary,
and install them with a breaker bar. I have been known to use a torque
wrench but my fingers are well calibrated by now.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:20:55 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

wrote:

I've done all 3 at one point or another. Have not managed to jack the
car up over the breaker bar yet but I guess that would be a 4th
possibility.

I tried that with my '51 Chevy, iirc, to break the bead on the tire. The car
jacked up just fine. My memory is a little cloudy on the point but I think
the owner's manuals back in the day illustrated the technique.

Anyway, I let the car down and went on to some other scheme to break the
bead.

My current scheme with lug nuts is, if a tire shop mounts the tires, to
drive directly home, take the nuts off with an impact wrench if necessary,
and install them with a breaker bar. I have been known to use a torque
wrench but my fingers are well calibrated by now.


After 45 years twisting the wrench I still use the torque wrench. If I
need to change a tire on the road I'll trust my "calibration" until I
get home and recheck with the torque wrench. I'm usually pretty darn
close - but I check anyway.
Have not had a tire failure on the road that required a road-side
change since about 1972? on my own vehicles. A few flat on the
driveway, and a few getting low by the time I got home or to the
garage - not counting removing the wheels on the 204 Peugeot several
times on the trip from Livingstone to Mbereshi over the
christmas/new-years holiday of 2003/2004 to straighten the rims after
hitting some awfull potholes. Thankfully NOT tubeless tires!!!.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
wrote:
My current scheme with lug nuts is, if a tire shop mounts the tires, to
drive directly home, take the nuts off with an impact wrench if necessary,
and install them with a breaker bar. I have been known to use a torque
wrench but my fingers are well calibrated by now.



The tire shop I go to has a big window where you can sit and watch them
change and rotate the tires. They seem to use the torque tubes on the
impact wrenches, but give them a final check with the manual torque wrench.



---
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On Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:22:15 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"rbowman" wrote in message
...
wrote:
My current scheme with lug nuts is, if a tire shop mounts the tires, to
drive directly home, take the nuts off with an impact wrench if necessary,
and install them with a breaker bar. I have been known to use a torque
wrench but my fingers are well calibrated by now.



The tire shop I go to has a big window where you can sit and watch them
change and rotate the tires. They seem to use the torque tubes on the
impact wrenches, but give them a final check with the manual torque wrench.

The problem is that guarantees they are AT LEAST torqued to that amount. It does not check that they are not overtorqued.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:34:38 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
wrote:
My current scheme with lug nuts is, if a tire shop mounts the tires, to
drive directly home, take the nuts off with an impact wrench if necessary,
and install them with a breaker bar. I have been known to use a torque
wrench but my fingers are well calibrated by now.



The tire shop I go to has a big window where you can sit and watch them
change and rotate the tires. They seem to use the torque tubes on the
impact wrenches, but give them a final check with the manual torque wrench.


Which is what I REQUIRED my techs to do, under threat of dismissal.

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On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:54:37 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.
I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.

I ditched the 4-way lug wrench a long time ago and picked up a long 1/2"
breaker bar with the exact 6-point socket to fit. Depending on how deep
your lugs sit back in the wheel, you might need a short extension too.
Since lugs are under a lot of torque, I bought a good quality Craftsman bar
and socket. Yes, they're expensive, but a $30-40 investment is minimal for
a vehicle. You don't want cheap tools that break when you're stuck on the
side of a lonely road somewhere.

One bonus of a breaker bar and socket is they are light weight and are easy
to store in your vehicle.

I have never needed a pipe on my breaker bar. Most times it is easy to
loosen the lugs by hand. However, on some occasions the tire shops really
over torque the lugs and the lugs are stuck after a couple years. I just
angle the bar parallel to the ground and stand on the end of the bar as
needed. There has never been a lug I couldn't get loose with this
technique. Of course, no harm done if you have room to carry the pipe too.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

I'm not sure how to explain it, but somehow the flex of the 4way wrench
is the cause of the NOT loosening the lugnuts. It appears that too much
of the energy applied to the wrench goes into bending (flexing) of the
metal in the wrench, and is not used on the nut itself.

As the OP in this thread, and after reading all the replies, I have just
left my half inch breaker bar and socket (7/8") in my pickup truck.
It's a mid 90's truck and does not have metric nuts. I'll buy another
breaker bar when I find one on sale at Sears or another quality type.
Because I want one in my garage tools, so I dont have to have to get it
out of the truck everytime I work on stuff. But that 4way wrench is
being retired.

The truck was bought from a private party, and did not come with the
original wrench or a jack. I keep a small floor jack inside the cab
(which are usually better anyhow).

Yesterday I took the truck to a tire shop and had the bad tire replaced.
I then had the tire guy put anti-sieze on the lugs on that tire, and had
him put it on ALL my tire lugnuts. He has a power wrench and did all of
them in a couple minutes, rather than trying myself and fighting with
doing it by hand myself. He charged me $5 extra to lube all the nuts,
which was well worth it. While he was doing it, I asked him about the
4way wrenches and he agreed that 4way wrenches are not the best. Then I
asked him if the reason is because of the flex on them, and he said that
it's part of the problem, plus they often dont fit tight enough. He
said I'm doing the right thing by carrying a breaker bar and socket.

As far as you saying you have never needed a pipe on a breaker bar, I
have to say that I have needed a pipe more than not. But I drive older
vehicles, and I'm elderly myself. From now on, everytime I buy a new
vehicle, I am going to have him anti-sieze all the nuts as soon as I buy
the vehicle. I'm tired of having a tire go flat and not being able to
remove the lugnuts on the side of the road. That has happened far too
many times over the years. I still recall one time having to walk about
5 miles to buy a piece of pipe, then walking back to the car. It took
half a day to finally change that damn tire. Tires are made better now,
then they were in the past, but they all go flat sooner or later. I
know one guy who dont carry a spare tire. He said he never gets flats.
I told him that he's a fool!

wrote:

I
know one guy who dont carry a spare tire. He said he never gets flats.
I told him that he's a fool!

I carry the usual donut in the car. I have another set of rims with mounted
tires but a real tire won't fit in the spare well which ****ed me off.

I also carry a plug kit and a small 12VDC pump. That's saved the day a
couple of times. Summers, I'm usually on one of the bikes and you learn
early if you can't fix a flat 20 miles from East Moosenuts you have a
problem, so all the bikes have pumps and plug kits or tube patches. With the
DR, I throw in a spare tube for good measure. Of course, that goes for the
bikes with pedals too. With them, I carry a spare tube too.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:11:30 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 16:54:37 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.
I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.

I ditched the 4-way lug wrench a long time ago and picked up a long 1/2"
breaker bar with the exact 6-point socket to fit. Depending on how deep
your lugs sit back in the wheel, you might need a short extension too.
Since lugs are under a lot of torque, I bought a good quality Craftsman bar
and socket. Yes, they're expensive, but a $30-40 investment is minimal for
a vehicle. You don't want cheap tools that break when you're stuck on the
side of a lonely road somewhere.

One bonus of a breaker bar and socket is they are light weight and are easy
to store in your vehicle.

I have never needed a pipe on my breaker bar. Most times it is easy to
loosen the lugs by hand. However, on some occasions the tire shops really
over torque the lugs and the lugs are stuck after a couple years. I just
angle the bar parallel to the ground and stand on the end of the bar as
needed. There has never been a lug I couldn't get loose with this
technique. Of course, no harm done if you have room to carry the pipe too.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

I'm not sure how to explain it, but somehow the flex of the 4way wrench
is the cause of the NOT loosening the lugnuts. It appears that too much
of the energy applied to the wrench goes into bending (flexing) of the
metal in the wrench, and is not used on the nut itself.

As the OP in this thread, and after reading all the replies, I have just
left my half inch breaker bar and socket (7/8") in my pickup truck.
It's a mid 90's truck and does not have metric nuts. I'll buy another
breaker bar when I find one on sale at Sears or another quality type.
Because I want one in my garage tools, so I dont have to have to get it
out of the truck everytime I work on stuff. But that 4way wrench is
being retired.

The truck was bought from a private party, and did not come with the
original wrench or a jack. I keep a small floor jack inside the cab
(which are usually better anyhow).

Yesterday I took the truck to a tire shop and had the bad tire replaced.
I then had the tire guy put anti-sieze on the lugs on that tire, and had
him put it on ALL my tire lugnuts. He has a power wrench and did all of
them in a couple minutes, rather than trying myself and fighting with
doing it by hand myself. He charged me $5 extra to lube all the nuts,
which was well worth it. While he was doing it, I asked him about the
4way wrenches and he agreed that 4way wrenches are not the best. Then I
asked him if the reason is because of the flex on them, and he said that
it's part of the problem, plus they often dont fit tight enough. He
said I'm doing the right thing by carrying a breaker bar and socket.

As far as you saying you have never needed a pipe on a breaker bar, I
have to say that I have needed a pipe more than not. But I drive older
vehicles, and I'm elderly myself. From now on, everytime I buy a new
vehicle, I am going to have him anti-sieze all the nuts as soon as I buy
the vehicle. I'm tired of having a tire go flat and not being able to
remove the lugnuts on the side of the road. That has happened far too
many times over the years. I still recall one time having to walk about
5 miles to buy a piece of pipe, then walking back to the car. It took
half a day to finally change that damn tire. Tires are made better now,
then they were in the past, but they all go flat sooner or later. I
know one guy who dont carry a spare tire. He said he never gets flats.
I told him that he's a fool!
I have a cell phone and an auto club membership, as do my wife and
both daughters, so spare or no spare or flat spare, I'm covered.
I've used the auto club membership twice - bad transmission and bad
universal joint - both while driving across Michigan in Ford
Aerostars.

In the last 34 years I've not had a tire go flat on the road except
for a bad valve stem in PEI, and even then I made it to a garage
before it went right flat - thankfully - because the car was PACKED
and getting to the spare would have been more work than changing it.

I've changed numerous wheels for others stuck on the side of the road.

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
In the last 34 years I've not had a tire go flat on the road except
for a bad valve stem in PEI, and even then I made it to a garage
before it went right flat - thankfully - because the car was PACKED
and getting to the spare would have been more work than changing it.

I've changed numerous wheels for others stuck on the side of the road.

That's my experience too. We've even stopped carrying a can of Fix-a-flat, which I kept in the trunk because there was no way my wife was strong enough to get lug nuts off anyway.

I think having to pass inspection annually means we buy tires more often!

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:34:49 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:02:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
In the last 34 years I've not had a tire go flat on the road except
for a bad valve stem in PEI, and even then I made it to a garage
before it went right flat - thankfully - because the car was PACKED
and getting to the spare would have been more work than changing it.

I've changed numerous wheels for others stuck on the side of the road.

That's my experience too. We've even stopped carrying a can of Fix-a-flat, which I kept in the trunk because there was no way my wife was strong enough to get lug nuts off anyway.

I think having to pass inspection annually means we buy tires more often!
Up here we don't have anual inspections - but I won't let an "iffy"
tire go back on at seasonal tire change - When I take the tires off
for changeover, if they are "iffy" they come off the rims immediately
so there is no temptation to get "a few more miles" out of them next
season. Tires are cheap compared to the alternative - an accident or
getting standed somewhere less than safe.

On 12/27/2014 4:01 PM, wrote:
In the last 34 years I've not had a tire go flat on the road except
for a bad valve stem in PEI, and even then I made it to a garage
before it went right flat - thankfully - because the car was PACKED
and getting to the spare would have been more work than changing it.

I've changed numerous wheels for others stuck on the side of the road.


Those little 12 volt compressors are ten bucks
or so at Harbor Freight. I think, worth every
penny. I have one in each vehicle.

One time a friend had a flat in the church parking
lot. Another man and I got the spare out, which
had no pressure. In spite of being a Ford Expedition
with 17 inch rims, my little 12 volt compressor
aired up the spare. Noisy little unit, and it did
take several minutes.

True nerds will correct me, the spare did have
14.7 PSIA, but I really needed about 50 PSIA to
keep the rim off the ground. Carry on, nothing to
see here.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/28/2014 7:59 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


True nerds will correct me, the spare did have
14.7 PSIA, but I really needed about 50 PSIA to
keep the rim off the ground. Carry on, nothing to
see here.


14.7 PSIA prolly be about right for use on the moon.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but somehow the flex of the 4way
wrench is the cause of the NOT loosening the lugnuts. It appears that
too much of the energy applied to the wrench goes into bending
(flexing) of the metal in the wrench, and is not used on the nut
itself.

The cheap 4-way wrenches I had were fairly bendy too, but the main issue
was their length. Each arm was only 6-8" or so and didn't provide much
leverage. A 16" breaker bar makes easy work of a lug the 4-way wouldn't
budge.

Add my 230 pounds to the end of that 16" bar and a stubborn lug doesn't
stand a chance!

I want one in my garage tools, so I dont have to have to get
it out of the truck everytime I work on stuff.

An extra bar would be handy but I've never gotten around to getting one.
I just grab the one out of the trunk when I need it. Generally, lug nuts
are the only thing I need it for anyway.

The truck was bought from a private party, and did not come with the
original wrench or a jack. I keep a small floor jack inside the cab
(which are usually better anyhow).

My used cars never came with wrenches or jacks either. I got my standard
equipment screw jacks at the salvage yards. It doesn't take much to lift
my 1976 VW Rabbit anyway. That said, I did have a bearing fail on a screw
jack years ago and the car came crashing down. Scary. Thankfully there
was no harm to me or the vehicle, but it taught me never to trust those
jacks for anything more than an emergency tire repair. I use my floor
jack and jack stands when the car is in the garage.

He has a power wrench and did all of them in a couple minutes

I've been thinking about picking up a cordless impact wrench, mostly for
the speed than anything. Taking snow tires on and off twice a year can
take a while. More of a luxury than something I really need.

As far as you saying you have never needed a pipe on a breaker bar, I
have to say that I have needed a pipe more than not.

The only thing I need the extra leverage of a pipe for is removing the
axle nuts when changing drivelines or wheel bearings.

However, if you live in an area where the roads are salted each winter,
you may have more issues with corrosion than I do.

Tires are made better now, then they were in the past, but they all go
flat sooner or later. I know one guy who dont carry a spare tire.

I always carry a full size spare, even though I have only had one flat in
30+ years. I heard a noise while driving and pulled over to find a key
sticking out of the tire. I don't know how a key ended up on the road or
how it managed to poke into my tire, but I had the spare on in less than
10 minutes and was on my way.

Unfortunately, the tires on my utility trailer seem to blow out every
year or two. They just degrade over time, crack, and fail. So, I always
carry a spare trailer tire, and replace the tires every few years.

I drive older vehicles, and I'm elderly myself.

I still drive a 1976 Rabbit and at 51 I'm no spring chicken either.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 06:53:59 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:


The cheap 4-way wrenches I had were fairly bendy too, but the main issue
was their length. Each arm was only 6-8" or so and didn't provide much
leverage. A 16" breaker bar makes easy work of a lug the 4-way wouldn't
budge.

My 4-way is 2 feet long, thick, and has no noticeable flex. You can't
beat a 4-way for speed, as you can spin off the nuts fast.
I've used short ones in the past, and had no trouble with them.
When I carried my tools with me, I used a 1/2 breaker to break them,
and a speed wrench to crank them off. The 1/2 breaker flexed more
than any 4-way I've used, and the speeder is more work than a 4-way.
The only downside of a good 4-way is the space it takes.
I've kept my lugs oiled with 30 weight until the last 20 years, when I
started using anti-seize. I still wire brush them occasionally.
But honestly, I haven't had a flat in at least 15 years, so only take
wheels off for brake jobs or suspension work.
When flats were more common, I carried a 1 1/2 ton hydraulic jack in
my trunk. More compact than most jacks, just heavier.
Now I just carry the jacks the came with my cars, but carry the big
4-way for trips.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:09:37 -0600, wrote:

But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Stand on one end while you use your pipe on the other end, or
get someone to pull on the pipe while you stand. You might have to do
some gymnastics till you get it right if you are alone, but then there
will nobody watching. Giving the nut a few "jerks" in the wrong
direction might loosen it. Try that.
It bends if force is applied on only one side. I have snapped
a wrench, once. Bad material.
[]'s

Reference : changing tires for 40 years.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

posted for all of us...



I got a flat the other day and I carry a 4way wrench in my vehicle.
Although I greased all my lugnuts during the summer, for some reason it
seems that as soon as it gets cold outdoors, the damn lugnuts dont want
to come off.

Not only dont those 4way wrenches always seem too sloppy on the nut, but
they bend. And it seems that because they flex and bend, they lack the
power needed to bust loose a stubborn nut.

I tried everything to loosen them. I even carry a piece of pipe, and
slipped that over the end of the wrench, and could not loosen even one
of them.

I finally called a friend who has a lot of tools, and asked him to bring
a breaker bar and socket. With his breaker bar/socket, I was able to
get some torque. I still had to use my pipe on a few of them, but they
came loose. With that 4way, I could not budge them at all, and I was
probably applying more pressure.

I guess the solution is to just buy another breaker bar, and socket to
fit, and leave those in the vehicle all the time, along with my pipe.
But before I do, I just wanted to ask if there is some lugnut wrench
made, that actually does the job, without flexing and bending? It dont
need to be a 4way!

Thanks

NAPA usually has better grade equipment.

You may wish to invest in a torque wrench so the nuts are tightened
properly. I would also avoid where you had the car serviced or wheels were
touched.

Depending on how much DIY you perform an impact wrench may be an investment.

--
Tekkie

Tekkie® wrote:

Depending on how much DIY you perform an impact wrench may be an
investment.

I bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to remove a
couple of damper tube bolts during a motorcycle fork project. It worked well
and saved my bacon a couple of years later when I found The Hulk had torqued
down the nuts on my new rims. It also came in handy to remove the sprocket
nut that Suzuki installs with red Loctite.

High quality professional tool built for day in and day out use? Hell, no,
but $50 well spent.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 15:53:45 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

Tekkie® wrote:

Depending on how much DIY you perform an impact wrench may be an
investment.

I bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to remove a
couple of damper tube bolts during a motorcycle fork project. It worked well
and saved my bacon a couple of years later when I found The Hulk had torqued
down the nuts on my new rims. It also came in handy to remove the sprocket
nut that Suzuki installs with red Loctite.

High quality professional tool built for day in and day out use? Hell, no,
but $50 well spent.

A friend loaned me his HF electric impact unit. I had to break lug
nuts loose before it really worked for me. Likely an okay tool in less
demanding situations. My current impact wrench (OLD) won't really work
on my current small air compressor. Not enough aggression to break
the torque.