First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.

Mike

"Michael Wilson" wrote in message
...
First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off valve
from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the well
pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the tank and
replace it? Help much appreciated.

_____


yes.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:
First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.

Mike

Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing shut-off valve.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:
First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off
valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to
the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the
tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.

Mike

Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing
shut-off valve.

Harry K

I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on its
outlet to the pressure tank.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 2:47:28 PM UTC-4, Pico Rico wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

...

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:

First call, longtime listener.



I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off

valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to

the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the

tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.



Mike



Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing

shut-off valve.



Harry K



I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on its

outlet to the pressure tank.

If you mean you've never seen a shut off valve between the well and the
tank, I agree. There normally isn't one and there is no need for one.
There typically is a drain valve on the tank and a valve between the tank
and the house water system or whatever it's supplying.

All he has to do is shut off the pump and drain the tank.

On 8/2/2014 3:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
If you mean you've never seen a shut off valve between the well and the
tank, I agree. There normally isn't one and there is no need for one.
There typically is a drain valve on the tank and a valve between the tank
and the house water system or whatever it's supplying.

All he has to do is shut off the pump and drain the tank.


Years ago, some friends had a well pump in the cellar,
with expansion tank. Every now and again, he had to
turn off the house water, and let the tank drain. Would
made more sense to me to put a tire valve on top of the
tank, and pump more air in. There was already a gadget
with a diaphragm (not in the tank) and hose that was
supposed to "regulate the air" which I think means put
in a tiny spot of air every time the pump cycled on and
off.

I think the bladder tanks like the OP has, are designed
to NOT lose the air charge, and "never needs refilling".

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/2/2014 3:41 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/2/2014 3:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
If you mean you've never seen a shut off valve between the well and the
tank, I agree. There normally isn't one and there is no need for one.
There typically is a drain valve on the tank and a valve between the tank
and the house water system or whatever it's supplying.

All he has to do is shut off the pump and drain the tank.


Years ago, some friends had a well pump in the cellar,
with expansion tank. Every now and again, he had to
turn off the house water, and let the tank drain. Would
made more sense to me to put a tire valve on top of the
tank, and pump more air in. There was already a gadget
with a diaphragm (not in the tank) and hose that was
supposed to "regulate the air" which I think means put
in a tiny spot of air every time the pump cycled on and
off.

I think the bladder tanks like the OP has, are designed
to NOT lose the air charge, and "never needs refilling".


I haven't messed with mine but plumber suggested turning off water to
tank, letting water bleed off into house and pressurizing to maybe 25
psi. Think if I noted what appeared to be too rapid cycling, I'd check
the pressure.

I have a ball shut off valve beyond the tank and with my whole house
filter, there are more ball valves to isolate and bypass the filter
making change easy.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:41:48 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/2/2014 3:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:

If you mean you've never seen a shut off valve between the well and the

tank, I agree. There normally isn't one and there is no need for one.

There typically is a drain valve on the tank and a valve between the tank

and the house water system or whatever it's supplying.



All he has to do is shut off the pump and drain the tank.





Years ago, some friends had a well pump in the cellar,

with expansion tank. Every now and again, he had to

turn off the house water, and let the tank drain. Would

made more sense to me to put a tire valve on top of the

tank, and pump more air in. There was already a gadget

with a diaphragm (not in the tank) and hose that was

supposed to "regulate the air" which I think means put

in a tiny spot of air every time the pump cycled on and

off.



That's how the old system worked. If the tank needed more air, it
would put some in by using the pump to suck air during a regular
pumping cycle. And as you say, sometimes they went kaput and then
the tank would become water logged. That system only works if the
pump is by the tank.





I think the bladder tanks like the OP has, are designed

to NOT lose the air charge, and "never needs refilling".



Correct, until something goes wrong with them too. I think you
can replace the bladder on at least some of them. I raised that
as an easier, cheaper possibility.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:

First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off
valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to
the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the
tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.

Mike

Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing
shut-off valve.

Harry K

I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on its
outlet to the pressure tank.

And I've never seen one without it. Every appliance using/supplying water should have one for just such a reason. It recently cost me $120 to have a shut-off installed on the well line entering the house where I forgot to specify it when the well was drilled. That was an unusual situation though. I had a leak and needed to shut that line off to isolate it.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:

First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off
valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to
the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain
the
tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.

Mike

Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing
shut-off valve.

Harry K

I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on
its
outlet to the pressure tank.

And I've never seen one without it. Every appliance using/supplying water
should have one for just such a reason. It recently cost me $120 to have a
shut-off installed on the well line entering the house where I forgot to
specify it when the well was drilled. That was an unusual situation though.
I had a leak and needed to shut that line off to isolate it.

--------

I thought we were talking about a valve between the well and the pressure
tank.

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:01:58 AM UTC-4, Pico Rico wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

...

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:

"Harry K" wrote in message

...

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:



First call, longtime listener.



I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off

valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to

the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain

the

tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.



Mike



Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing

shut-off valve.



Harry K



I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on

its

outlet to the pressure tank.



And I've never seen one without it. Every appliance using/supplying water

should have one for just such a reason. It recently cost me $120 to have a

shut-off installed on the well line entering the house where I forgot to

specify it when the well was drilled. That was an unusual situation though.

I had a leak and needed to shut that line off to isolate it.



--------



I thought we were talking about a valve between the well and the pressure

tank.

+1

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:01:58 PM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:

snip

I thought we were talking about a valve between the well and the pressure
tank.

we were and I was. Complicated situation. Back when I bought this place it was serviced from a community well that had been drilled by the state when the highway rebuild ruined the spring. Served 4 hourses originally but mine and the neighbove 1/4 mile away (who had the well) were the only ones left. I somehow wound up being the unpaid 'well fixer' and as time went on I even became the "well fixer upper guy who got to pay the costs".

I drilled myi own well to get off that community well but kept the interconnection "in case". 'In case' happened twice at the neighbors and they used off my well until theirs was fixed. Then about 2 months ago my well pump started running about every 15 minutes. What with all the irrigation lines I had installed, I was looking at a major digging project to find the leak..

OK. Told the neighbor I would be using off their well. Turned on the interconnect and then discovered that there was no shut-ff between the pressur tank and my well. Neighbor would have been pumping right into wherever my leak was. Had to pay the $120 to a plumber to get a shut-off installed - it would have cost about $10 if I had thought to tell the well drillers to install one.

My leak turned out to be in the well, galvanic corrosion ate a big hole just above the pump (galvanized to brass connection). It also did the same at the pitless adapter.

I am a firm believer that there should be a shutoff on any line where it enters the house. Most would never or only very rarely used but when needed....

Harry K

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 12:42:29 AM UTC-4, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:

"Harry K" wrote in message

...

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:



First call, longtime listener.



I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off

valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to

the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the

tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.



Mike



Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing

shut-off valve.



Harry K



I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on its

outlet to the pressure tank.



And I've never seen one without it. Every appliance using/supplying water should have one for just such a reason. It recently cost me $120 to have a shut-off installed on the well line entering the house where I forgot to specify it when the well was drilled. That was an unusual situation though.. I had a leak and needed to shut that line off to isolate it.



Harry K

You're confusing a shutoff valve for the water supply *to the house*, with
a shutoff valve between the well and tank. Of course there should always
be a shutoff between the tank and the house. But I've never seen one
between the well and tank. What purpose exactly does it serve? Assuming
it's a submersible, all it does is block the flow of water into the tank
which you could just as easily do by shutting off the breaker.
If the tank has 60 gallons of water, that water will still be available
to run into the house, unless there is a valve between the house and tank.

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 9:00:10 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 12:42:29 AM UTC-4, Harry K wrote:

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:



"Harry K" wrote in message



...



On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:







First call, longtime listener.







I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off



valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to



the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the



tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.







Mike







Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that missing



shut-off valve.







Harry K







I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on its



outlet to the pressure tank.







And I've never seen one without it. Every appliance using/supplying water should have one for just such a reason. It recently cost me $120 to have a shut-off installed on the well line entering the house where I forgot to specify it when the well was drilled. That was an unusual situation though. I had a leak and needed to shut that line off to isolate it.







Harry K



You're confusing a shutoff valve for the water supply *to the house*, with

a shutoff valve between the well and tank. Of course there should always

be a shutoff between the tank and the house. But I've never seen one

between the well and tank. What purpose exactly does it serve? Assuming

it's a submersible, all it does is block the flow of water into the tank

which you could just as easily do by shutting off the breaker.

If the tank has 60 gallons of water, that water will still be available

to run into the house, unless there is a valve between the house and tank..

Here is why it would be useful to have a shutoff valve between tank and well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiZh...id=P-utvCcl8zY

On 08/02/2014 11:42 PM, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:47:28 AM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:
....

I have never seen a well pump with a valve (other than a check valve) on its
outlet to the pressure tank.

And I've never seen one without it. Every appliance using/supplying
water should have one for just such a reason. It recently cost me
$120 to have a shut-off installed on the well line entering the house
where I forgot to specify it when the well was drilled. That was an
unusual situation though. I had a leak and needed to shut that line
off toisolate it.
....

The well goes _DIRECT_ to the house w/o any intermediary??? That's
certainly peculiar--water on demand instead of just hot water.

And, it would seem to be a pretty incompetent installer that would just
ignore the obvious despite the "forgetting" in a spec. Would perhaps be
a scope change but to not have isolation/cutoff on the house probably
doesn't meet Code (presuming there's one applicable in the area which
granted may not be in rural area on on well).

--

On 08/02/2014 1:21 PM, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 10:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Wilson wrote:
First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut
off valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to
the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain
the tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.

That's the routine way you would do it, anyway. You don't want the pump
kicking on when you empty the tank and lose pressure that it will if
leave on unless block the pressure switch which is klunky way to go at it.

Just turn the pump supply breaker off.

Yes, and while you are chaning it out, you should install that
missing shut-off valve.

Not really -- you _never_ want a deadhead of the well pump that's
possible if somebody inadvertently closes that valve.

While there is one here, it's never been closed (and is wired so can't
be closed w/o specific effort to remove the wire) since installed in
'64. The pressure tank has been replaced several times in that time span.

--

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 12:56:52 PM UTC-5, Michael Wilson wrote:
First call, longtime listener.



I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the well pump, will this effectively shut off the water so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much appreciated.



Mike

Many thanks!

On 8/2/2014 1:56 PM, Michael Wilson wrote:
First call, longtime listener.

I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I
don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to
drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the
well pump, will this effectively shut off the water
so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much
appreciated.

Mike

Yes, should. I'd open a couple faucets, to drain
the pressure. Expect to get a little wet, no such
thing as perfect.

So, tell us why you're replacing the tank? might be
that's not your real problem.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 2:13:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/2/2014 1:56 PM, Michael Wilson wrote:

First call, longtime listener.



I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I

don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to

drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the

well pump, will this effectively shut off the water

so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much

appreciated.



Mike



Yes, should. I'd open a couple faucets, to drain

the pressure. Expect to get a little wet, no such

thing as perfect.



So, tell us why you're replacing the tank? might be

that's not your real problem.



--

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00 to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:19:42 PM UTC-4, Michael Wilson wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 2:13:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 8/2/2014 1:56 PM, Michael Wilson wrote:



First call, longtime listener.







I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I



don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to



drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the



well pump, will this effectively shut off the water



so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much



appreciated.







Mike







Yes, should. I'd open a couple faucets, to drain



the pressure. Expect to get a little wet, no such



thing as perfect.







So, tell us why you're replacing the tank? might be



that's not your real problem.







--



.



Christopher A. Young



Learn about Jesus



www.lds.org



.



The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00 to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.

If the tank is otherwise OK, I believe on some, if not all of them, you
can replace the diaphram/bladder.

On 8/2/2014 3:26 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:19:42 PM UTC-4,

Michael Wilson wrote:
The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the
tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips
on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00
to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm
putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.

If the tank is otherwise OK, I believe on some, if
not all of them, you
can replace the diaphram/bladder.


I'd first try to reinflate, and see if the bladder is
still there. Might be just a couple minutes with air
compressor could get by for the next year or more.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/2/2014 3:43 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/2/2014 3:26 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:19:42 PM UTC-4,

Michael Wilson wrote:
The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the
tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips
on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00
to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm
putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.

If the tank is otherwise OK, I believe on some, if
not all of them, you
can replace the diaphram/bladder.


I'd first try to reinflate, and see if the bladder is
still there. Might be just a couple minutes with air
compressor could get by for the next year or more.



I think originally that there was no bladder in pressure tanks and they
just relied on the air space. They added bladders later since the air
will eventually dissolve in the water requiring air to be added frequently.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 2:43:25 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/2/2014 3:26 PM, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:19:42 PM UTC-4,



Michael Wilson wrote:

The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the

tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips

on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00

to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm

putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.



If the tank is otherwise OK, I believe on some, if

not all of them, you

can replace the diaphram/bladder.





I'd first try to reinflate, and see if the bladder is

still there. Might be just a couple minutes with air

compressor could get by for the next year or more.





--

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

I have been inflating it every few days to keep the pump from running too much. The current tank is welded shut, so no chance of fixing the bladder/diaphragm. In any case, I've already bought the tank. It's on my porch, ready for action.

On 8/2/2014 3:19 PM, Michael Wilson wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2014 2:13:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

So, tell us why you're replacing the tank? might be
that's not your real problem.

.

The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the
tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips
on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00
to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm
putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.


Before spending $900, I'd be tempted to do some more
research. I'm right on the edge of my wisdom, about
well tanks. Is there a tire inflater valve on there
some where? Might check that with a tire gage, see if
there is pressure. Also press the valve stem, see if
water comes out. (If water comes out, I think that
indicates bad diaphragm.)

Just for diagnostic, I'd also turn off the well pump
breaker, and put an air compressor on the tire valve.
Inflate to 30 PSI, See if you can get air to come out
the water faucets (sign of leaking diaphragm).

Who knows? Might just be the tank needs reinflating.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Just for diagnostic, I'd also turn off the well pump
breaker, and put an air compressor on the tire valve.
Inflate to 30 PSI, See if you can get air to come out
the water faucets (sign of leaking diaphragm).

Who knows? Might just be the tank needs reinflating.

That test will tell nothing unless he runs the water dry after shutting off the
pump.

On 8/2/2014 4:06 PM, Bob F wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Just for diagnostic, I'd also turn off the well pump
breaker, and put an air compressor on the tire valve.
Inflate to 30 PSI, See if you can get air to come out
the water faucets (sign of leaking diaphragm).

Who knows? Might just be the tank needs reinflating.

That test will tell nothing unless he runs
the water dry after shutting off the
pump.



I'd think that inflating to 30 and open the faucets,
with the well pump turned off. Eventually, if the
tank diaphragm is ripped, you'd get air after a while.
Of course, might have to add more air, and then more
air. If the tank diaphram is intact, you'd eventually
run out of water.

The one I saw on the web was factory charged to
38 PSI, with no well system atached.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Michael Wilson posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Saturday, August 2, 2014 2:13:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/2/2014 1:56 PM, Michael Wilson wrote:

First call, longtime listener.



I'm changing out the water pressure tank, but I

don't have a shut off valve from tank to well to

drain the tank. If I turn off the breaker to the

well pump, will this effectively shut off the water

so I can drain the tank and replace it? Help much

appreciated.



Mike



Yes, should. I'd open a couple faucets, to drain

the pressure. Expect to get a little wet, no such

thing as perfect.



So, tell us why you're replacing the tank? might be

that's not your real problem.



--

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

The plumber said the diaphragm is broken in the tank we have. The pressure switch constantly flips on when water is run in the house. He wants $900.00 to replace it with an Amtrol WX203 32 Gal tank. I'm putting in a Flotec 35 Gallon instead.

AS i understand it a larger tank is better because the pump runs longer for
each cycle but cycles less, which is what causes pump problems.

--
Tekkie

"Tekkie®" wrote in message
...
AS i understand it a larger tank is better because the pump runs longer
for
each cycle but cycles less, which is what causes pump problems.

That is correct. Usually the most problems will be caused by the motor
cycling off and on more. When a motor starts up it draws more current for a
short period of time while the motor is starting up. This puts more stress
on the motor. If you have a motor like on my well, there is a set of points
that puts a capacitor in and out of the circuit for about a second at
startup while the motor comes up to speed. The more often the points cycle,
the faster they wear out.